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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 10:07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Not that it can't be done, you buy these products expecting them to reflect the current timeline, yet now we have a supplement BEHIND the novels. Last Mythal is billed as a Realms shaking event for the elves and it GREATLY effects this area, yet all the info inside it is useless for people wanting to play in the CURRENT timeline.
I agree. As long as we're talking about a couple of pages, not 38 pages. |
Edited by - Snotlord on 02 Jul 2006 12:59:29 |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 10:06:49
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Ya know, I think WotC really tried hard to please everyone with his product. Everyone was unhappy about their decision a few years back about not producing any adventures anymore, so with this, you have both a sourcebook AND adventures, which should appeal to both players and DM's. I really like the product and learnt a lot from it.
About the Hillsfar thing and Final Gate... who's to say what the outcome is with the ruler?! The Zhentarim situation isn't over yet and the enjoy from Hillsfar could have been spinning Fzoul a yarn anyway! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 17:19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Ya know, I think WotC really tried hard to please everyone with his product. Everyone was unhappy about their decision a few years back about not producing any adventures anymore, so with this, you have both a sourcebook AND adventures, which should appeal to both players and DM's. I really like the product and learnt a lot from it.
But I don't think it did either thing well. It's not a great sourcebook on the region due to the lack of information about anything outside the cities. And the adventures just aren't very good (which may be partially due to the number of adventures they were expected to put in the book, fewer longer adventures would have been an improvement). |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 22:51:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Ya know, I think WotC really tried hard to please everyone with his product.
As I've said before, elsewhere, I think "trying to please everyone" often leads to an outcome that isn't stellar in any respect. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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seankreynolds
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 13:00:23
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Msatran said:
{Well, the thing is, that the books aren't "Tagged," Darrin. If there was a big sticker on the front that said "More useful if you are a DM!" sure, I buy that 100 percent.}
Actually, the back cover says:
"A campaign arc for characters of levels 1-18" -- the very first line on the back cover
The back cover copy also says, "This Mysteries of the Moonsea accessory contains 37 loosely connected ADVENTURES {emphasis mine} that can be run individually or linked to form the basis of an entire Forgotten Realms campaign. In addition to the adventures {in other words, a secondary issue when compared to the adventure content}, this book presents maps and descriptions of the major Moonsea cities of Melvaunt, Hillsfar, Mulmaster, and Zhentil Keep, as well as statistics and descriptions for 15 important campaign villians."
So that body text flat-out states that this is a book of adventures, and in addition to the adventures there is some non-adventure material ... which includes game info on the villains. Looks like a not-for-players book for me.
Swordsage wrote:
{I appreciate your candor, because that's the response that makes sense. The only difficulty is that, aside from Melvaunt, all of the information on the cities has been done before (and with respect, in slightly more detail) in the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover. Ed did Melvaunt in his old Polyhedron column but I'm guessing only relatively few fans have that source.}
Right ... most buyers still don't use the internet to buy OOP 1e books or magazines (whether in print or PDF). Which is why a new source in print for this info is a good thing.
{What I'm driving at is that MotM comes across to me as a glorified adventure,}
Well, it _is_ a set of adventures, rather than a sourcebook.
{with little utility to anyone not DM-ing a campaign in the Moonsea,}
1) I disagree -- you can easily transplant many of the adventures in MOTM to other locations or use them as hooks to get PCs to divert into the Moonsea area.
2) I argue that a 100% sourcebook on the Moonsea (which many seem to be clamoring for) has just as "little" utility to someone not running a campaign in the Moonsea, so any claims that MOTM is useless to non-Moonsea DMs is irrelevant. A Cormyr book is "useless" to non-Cormyr DMs whether it's a book of adventures or a detailed sourcebook on Cormyr's history and royal family.
{and little utility to those fans who just buy the products for the lore - because there wasn't all that much of that either.}
Honestly, I could care less about the fans who just buy the books for the lore. I'm a game designer. I write books for the D&D GAME so people can play the GAME. There may be people out there who buy FR books to light fires or prop up table legs or on the toilet ... I'm not going to change how I write a GAME book to suit their interests.
{All in all however, I thought that given the points I've raised above, that this book appeals to a smaller segment of the FR fanbase than a 'standard' regional sourcebook,}
Well, that's your opinion ... and sales numbers strongly indicate that more people feel otherwise.
{There is little or nothing in it for players to 'cherry pick' (like PrCs, feats, magic items et al.)}
Yep. And don't we have many threads here and elsewhere decrying the over-emphasis on "crunch" in FR books?
{and most non-FR D&D fans are likely to pass also - again due to the fact that it lacks any crunch for them to adopt for their own games.}
Or perhaps there is a large segment of D&D players that look for adventure material and inspiration from many sources, regardless of the world-logo on the cover.
Hoondatha said:
{That's annoying, and not just that 1/4 of the book was obsolete before it was released.}
It's only "obsolete" if you insist on your campaign following the official timeline 100%, which probably means that you're having to accelerate your campaign through months of downtime to keep up with the constantly-forward pace of the official timeline ... which also means that you're placing more importance on what happens in the novels than what your PCs are doing. Aren't they supposed to be the stars? Can't you use the "foreknowledge" of the official-current-date products to insert hints and plot seeds into your not-yet-caught-up campaign?
Heck, by your logic, the FRCS is "obsolete." So are all the 1e products that people think we should have updated instead of writing MOTM. The game shouldn't be a race to keep up with what the novelists are doing.
BOBRoe wrote:
{Now a general comment on the urban adventures, the ones that are tied together are tied too close together so it would be very hard to gain the needed experience for each one.}
Are you sure about that? IIRC the outline mentioned what ELs each encounter area was supposed to be for, and if you add those up you should be on track for the PCs leveling appropriately.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 13:56:49
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quote:
Originally posted by seankreynolds
Hoondatha said:
{That's annoying, and not just that 1/4 of the book was obsolete before it was released.}
It's only "obsolete" if you insist on your campaign following the official timeline 100%, which probably means that you're having to accelerate your campaign through months of downtime to keep up with the constantly-forward pace of the official timeline ... which also means that you're placing more importance on what happens in the novels than what your PCs are doing. Aren't they supposed to be the stars? Can't you use the "foreknowledge" of the official-current-date products to insert hints and plot seeds into your not-yet-caught-up campaign?
If MoM was coming out around the time of book 1 or book 2 of The Last Mythral trilogy then I might share that view however MoM and Final gate (the CONCLUSION of the LAst mythral series) came out within a month of each other. There was no speculation to be had Hillsfar "Regime change" was a done deal
The thing that makes this even more stupid is that Richard Baker is not only the author of Last Mythal but his actually job is on the roleplaying side of wizards of the Coast and would therefore have been aware of both products. And seeing as how the Power of Faerun (A book that came out 3 MONTHS before Final gate) authors included material for Final gate, its obvious that Rich wasnt "hiding" the events in his novel from Game devlopers working on FR RPG projects
I can see no good reason why MoM should have contained material that the authors KNEW would be out of date even BEFORE it was released.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 03 Jul 2006 14:31:00 |
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seankreynolds
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 14:29:24
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| Except the developers DIDN'T know. Nobody told me about this, I doubt they told Thomas, Wil, or Darrin about it either. Like I've said, the novels side of the dept doesn't really trust the games side to not reveal spoiler info, which is really sad. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 14:34:42
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quote:
Originally posted by seankreynolds
Except the developers DIDN'T know. Nobody told me about this, I doubt they told Thomas, Wil, or Darrin about it either. Like I've said, the novels side of the dept doesn't really trust the games side to not reveal spoiler info, which is really sad.
your last comment doesnt reflect what happaned in Power of Faerun whose authors "Spoiled" the Final Gate
The Novel department clearly wasnt hiding the events in Final Gate from the gaming side of WOTC |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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seankreynolds
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 14:54:14
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::shrug:: I didn't have anything to do with that book so I don't know what its circumstances are.
I DO know that nobody told me about these novels while I was working on MOTM.
I DO know that when I was working on Into The Dragon's Lair, the novels side gave Steve and I _one_ _printed_ copy of the book Death Of The Dragon (A proof print, not an available-in-stores print), even though we asked for two copies (you know, so both designers could read and reference it at the same time) and perhaps an electronic version so we could do a quick search to find key events. And we were told this was so because the novels side didn't trust the designers to not post spoilers about the book.
And if you look at everything I've posted, I do not have a history of posting spoilers, so it's not like I was being singled out for this treatment. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 15:13:00
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quote:
Originally posted by seankreynolds
::shrug:: I didn't have anything to do with that book so I don't know what its circumstances are.
I DO know that nobody told me about these novels while I was working on MOTM.
I DO know that when I was working on Into The Dragon's Lair, the novels side gave Steve and I _one_ _printed_ copy of the book Death Of The Dragon (A proof print, not an available-in-stores print), even though we asked for two copies (you know, so both designers could read and reference it at the same time) and perhaps an electronic version so we could do a quick search to find key events. And we were told this was so because the novels side didn't trust the designers to not post spoilers about the book.
And if you look at everything I've posted, I do not have a history of posting spoilers, so it's not like I was being singled out for this treatment.
That being the case I think MoM reflects very poorly on Wizards in general and Richard Baker in particular (Who given his position in the company should have been aware of both products)
You know I used to think this level of "One hand not knowing what the other hands doing" incompetency was only found in goverment Departments and their respective Bueracrats!
Getting back ontopic I think the only way this mess can adequetly be cleaned up is if wizard do a post Last Gate web enhancement for Hillsfar.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 15:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
That being the case I think MoM reflects very poorly on Wizards in general and Richard Baker in particular (Who given his position in the company should have been aware of both products)
You know I used to think this level of "One hand not knowing what the other hands doing" incompetency was only found in goverment Departments and their respective Bueracrats!
Getting back ontopic I think the only way this mess can adequetly be cleaned up is if wizard do a post Last Gate web enhancement for Hillsfar.
Dargoth, what is it in particular that you mean about post Final Gate Hillsfar? If it's about the ruler, then nothing has really been stated as concrete in Final Gate. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 15:58:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
That being the case I think MoM reflects very poorly on Wizards in general and Richard Baker in particular (Who given his position in the company should have been aware of both products)
You know I used to think this level of "One hand not knowing what the other hands doing" incompetency was only found in goverment Departments and their respective Bueracrats!
Getting back ontopic I think the only way this mess can adequetly be cleaned up is if wizard do a post Last Gate web enhancement for Hillsfar.
Dargoth, what is it in particular that you mean about post Final Gate Hillsfar? If it's about the ruler, then nothing has really been stated as concrete in Final Gate.
Well lets See
Malthiir: Officially gone
Red Plumes: Officially gone
My speculation of post Last Gate Hillsfar going off the Hillsfar entry in FR adventures
Jorgen Berginblade leader of the Red Plumes: Either dead or booted out of Hillsfar
Ailoth red Wizard of Thay: Ailoth isnt present in MoM but theres a Thayan enclave I cant see Fzoul allowing the Thayan enclave in Hillsfar to stay (Thay is after all a rivial of the Zhentarim)
Mordak Brelliar Maalthiirs apprentice: Ties to the cities former leader either fled or killed
Wak Rather: Old friend of Maalthiir: Either dead or fled
Most Holy General Dournalis guff leader of the Church of Tempus in Hillsfar and Chaplain of the Red Plumes: Either dead or Exiled
and if Fzoul intends on making Hillsfar a Banite theocracy (Which seems likely) then the Churches of Tempus, Lliira and Chauntea have likely been purged from the city and you can bet that the Shrine to Torm will be destroyed
So in short (Going off the TOC for MoM on WOTC site)
The following sections of the Hillsfar chapter are likely to be either significantly changed or out oif date post Last Gate
Goverment and Law (Old Goverments gone)
Politics (old govements gone)
Defences (Red Plumes are gone)
Trade (Massive reparations payments to Zhentil Keep)
Religion (Non Banite Churches are likely to be purged)
Villians of Hillsfar (Some are liekly dead)
Thats 6/10 sections on Hillsfar.
The Hillsfar chapter needs to be updated |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 16:31:05
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My concern is less that I can't update the area to my view of what it's like now, and more that, for better or worse, MotM is now the definitive sourcebook on the Moonsea, and likely will be for years to come (look how long ago Silver Marches came out, for instance). The game exists in the same world as the novels, and therefore it should not be too much to ask for them to mirror each other, especially when a sourcebook and a novel that cover the same areas are coming out right on top of each other. There should have been at least mention, and preferably a complete update based on the new material.
However, if Novels didn't deign to share the changes they were making with Game Design, then it's completely unfair to blame the result on Game Design. I appologize for any harsh remarks I've made and herewith transfer them to Novels. In fact, I'm going to go ask Mr. Baker why this happened.
And yes, the FRCS is technically obsolete, at least those areas that have had newer sourcebooks or novels published in them. This is a problem? The roll of years moves on, events happen, areas change, old descriptions are no longer valid. What happened in a novel set in 1360 might not happen that way in 1374. The same with sourcebooks. I'm angry that changes to one, don't change the other. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 17:06:58
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quote:
Originally posted by seankreynolds
BOBRoe wrote:
{Now a general comment on the urban adventures, the ones that are tied together are tied too close together so it would be very hard to gain the needed experience for each one.}
Are you sure about that? IIRC the outline mentioned what ELs each encounter area was supposed to be for, and if you add those up you should be on track for the PCs leveling appropriately.
Well for the Sinister Inn (from the Zhentil Keep chapter, because that's the one I noticed it on). You are suppose to be 12th level (minimum) and for the next adventure should be 13th level. In the adventure you get (assuming a party of 4) 3450XP per character. Which isn't enough to gain the needed level. |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 17:29:53
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I, for one, i'm a happy camper that the adventures don'T follow (exactly) the events in the novels. I prefer adventure modules or path to be non temporal. They can be set whenever a dm wants. If you consider the events in Final Gate to be part of your campaign, just remove the npc you think died in the novel and replace them by npcs of your own creation.
I really liked the Last Mythal series but elves in my campaign are nowhere near to coming back to Faerun :)
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
Edited by - Patrakis on 03 Jul 2006 17:30:29 |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 19:25:40
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Well, I am really behind the times in this area as I don't yet have MoM and have not read Last Mythal yet. (Having just finished the romp that was Elminster's Daughter, I am actually planning to read this series during an upcoming trip to the states - and hopefully take a gander at MoM while there.)
However I am the sort of person who (as a DM) likes for sourcebooks to gel with other FR material. Since a number of posts here seem to be written from a like minded point of view...perhaps WOTC can 'update' this material via a series of web-enhancements. Again not having read the series yet, I don't know the amount of material we are talking about, but would such be possible or are there too many changes?
ALternatively, some of the sages here have been doing nice work and writings in terms of non-canon material (KEJ's Dungeon adaptations come time mind among others). Perhaps a small group of knowledgeable sages could coordinate a non-canon bridge to update the MoM with the Last Mythal material (for an upcoming Candlekeep Compendium perhaps).
Just an idea  |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 19:37:23
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LAST MYTHAL SPOILERS GALORE BELOW!
I finished the Final Gate two hours ago, encouraged by Dargoths posts, and I'd say you are in for a treat. I hope Baker continue writing FR books. He is IMO the best FR around, Greenwood and Byers included.
I like the idea of the having the surviving Red Plumes show up somewhere as a mercenary company. Mathiir is alive, if I remember book 2 correctly (sorry, its been a year), and I cannot recall ready any of his croonies dying. Lots of material to work with here with Mysteries of the Moonsea (warts and all).
I hope Zhentil Keeps is able to keep Hillsfar, it's time they get a real victory, and the dynamics in the region needs a change to keep it interesting (and The Last Mythal sure made it interesting without nuking anything). |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 21:15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I finished the Final Gate two hours ago, encouraged by Dargoths posts, and I'd say you are in for a treat. I hope Baker continue writing FR books. He is IMO the best FR around, Greenwood and Byers included.
I'd really have to disagree with that, at least judging by Baker's work in the Last Mythal series. His protagonists are some of the blandest I've read about in a long time...and I've read a lot of FR books.
I have no idea why this series is getting so much praise. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 21:22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I have no idea why this series is getting so much praise.
Because it really feel like 3.x FR is supposed to be according to game books. It's not surprising either, M. Baker is a key designer of 3.x FR. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 03 Jul 2006 21:23:30 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 21:23:15
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Well, writing good villains may not be Baker's strongest point. I like his well-paced stories and interesting use of magic, and the presentation of the Realms.
...but we're straying off topic here... |
Edited by - Snotlord on 03 Jul 2006 21:24:44 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 21:33:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well lets See...
Thanks for the spoiler warning, Dargoth! 
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:08:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Because it really feel like 3.x FR is supposed to be according to game books.
That hardly makes them great novels.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
That hardly makes them great novels.
Well, it's a quality that many people seem to like.
Many FR players & DMs like to imagine how in their games they could do the same as the characters of the novels. I can understand that people who read only novels and don't use the setting for his gaming purpose don't appreciate it. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 03 Jul 2006 23:17:55 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:17:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Because it really feel like 3.x FR is supposed to be according to game books.
That hardly makes them great novels.
Well, it's a quality that many people seem to like.
All right fair enough...even though I don't understand why. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:38:14
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quote:
I can understand that people who read only novels and don't use the setting for his gaming purpose don't appreciate it.
What about someone who doesn't read the novels or play the game, and only reads the supplements? ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:46:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Many FR players & DMs like to imagine how in their games they could do the same as the characters of the novels. I can understand that people who read only novels and don't use the setting for his gaming purpose don't appreciate it.
Hilarious. Making some assumptions about me there, aren't you?
When I read a novel, I care more about it's value as a story than it's value as a gaming supplement. If a novel is only good because it's "great for gaming"...than it isn't a good novel! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:54:35
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Just to get it back on topic, heh heh
quote:
Ailoth red Wizard of Thay: Ailoth isnt present in MoM but theres a Thayan enclave I cant see Fzoul allowing the Thayan enclave in Hillsfar to stay (Thay is after all a rivial of the Zhentarim)
I have been wondering just that exact same thing. Anyone have any thoughts?
Part of the issue for me is how does Thay have the enclaves. Do they have a oral or written agreement with a ruler, city, or kingdom? If it is with a ruler, I can see Fzoul saying "goodbye, don't let the dorr hit you on your a** on the way out!" If it is with a city or kingdom, I wonder how far he'll go to get rid of them.
Mkhaiwati |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:58:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Hilarious. Making some assumptions about me there, aren't you?
When I read a novel, I care more about it's value as a story than it's value as a gaming supplement. If a novel is only good because it's "great for gaming"...than it isn't a good novel!
No, but I know that a few here only read novels and don't play the game. FR novels are very specific fantasy novels and known as such.
Therefore, I don't have a problem if the authors must follow some guidelines. I mainly disliked RotAW because Shadow weave it pictured was not the Shadow weave that exist in the gaming world. (Same idea for Spellfire, but in this case, the problem is the gaming product)
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 00:44:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well lets See...
Thanks for the spoiler warning, Dargoth!
J. Grenemyer
Sorry, I thought quoting Lord Rads would have served as a spoiler warning for my post |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 01:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
No, but I know that a few here only read novels and don't play the game. FR novels are very specific fantasy novels and known as such.
They are fantasy novels, and hence can be judged as novels, not de facto sourcebooks.
quote:
Therefore, I don't have a problem if the authors must follow some guidelines.
I never said I had a problem with following guidelines--I think guidelines are unrelated to my issue with the Last Mythal novels. Read my posts again...and if you'd like to discuss it more with me, feel free to send me a PM.
Take care,
RF
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Topic |
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Mysteries of Moonsea?!?
