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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 06:06:05
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| Haha, hope.... |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 07:45:35
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I have to agree here with the people who preferred the second edition sourcebook materials. Those made it feel like a roleplaying game. I don't need a million crunchy statblocks. It bothers me when we try to make the Realms something it's not with too much in the way of statblocks and numbers. I hate to say this overall, but..uhm...first and second edition may have been more friendly to the Forgotten Realms than 3.5.
I can't switch back, of course. My players would kill me. I don't know the 2nd edition rules all that well anymore. But if a 4th edition comes out, and the GM has even less situational control than he or she has now? 3.5 will stay, and 4th edition will eat the big wall of nothing. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 08:16:01
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Long live DM control...
Yes, I love it when a really good DM controls my character's fate. Call me all sorts of strange names, if you want. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 09:42:25
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Well, I - as being a DM nowadays - have to say: the more detailed information you get the better it is. So if there are stat blocks and numbers to guide me along that's fine. If I am willing to use it in my game is still for me to decide. I can take it, change it or leave it out completely to work out my own ideas. But with the 3.5 rules (feats and skills and everything...) it is a pain in the behind to work out a unique level 15+ Character and than seeing him being ripped apart in minutes of gameplay by a bunch of excited PCs. So you might think twice about not using the stat blocks after all.
However - some local Lore along the stat blocks would be wonderful.
But as was said before - you cannot have everything!
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 14:54:18
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I'm confused.
Did someone a few posts ago accuse of me wanting/liking crunch? *boggle*
I don't want crunch or novels.. That makes me the uber-one out. I just want big sourcebooks full of history and lore. Not in novel form.
So something along the lines of the Raven's Bluff sourcebook that Ed Greenwood wrote up with all the RPGA info in n' stuff??? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 15:23:51
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To bad it was the Ravens Bluff source book that got that treatment; think of the product we could have had if it was almost any other country or region. The book is OK, by all means, but not even Ed could save Ravensbluff from its own silliness.
But Ravensbluff and other late second edition books had the best format for Realms-products. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 20:57:25
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| Cormanthyr is still my favorite supplement I think. Cult of the Dragon was REALLY nice, too. Also, Seven Sisters. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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FireKnife
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 17:36:24
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| I have kept from posting much here or on WoTC because of all the negative comments made on every product that is put out. I enjoy alot of lore and run my own adventures and I still found MoM to be a great book. It was a different layout and we were warned. Simply state hey WoTC needs to go back to a layout like SK or LeOF. Or suggest it with some tact to the game designers. Instead of posting that "hey the artwork sucks or this book is not worth buying" Ed was great enough to share this world of his and the other authors and designers have done a great job expanding this world. WoTC has overall control and there are deadlines and page limits. These designers and authors bust there butts and can't make everyone happy all the time. Ed has always said that our characters should be the heroes or villians of the Realms. We dm's run our version of the realms differently and things we do not like we don't use or we change. Plug in the missing pieces yourself people, books and sourcebooks should be useful tools not excuses for lack of creativity or imagination. To and Ed and all designers and authors thank you for all of that you do, you have made the Realms a wonderful place. |
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LoneHeroDragon
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 18:20:55
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Earlier, I submitted this question in the Ed Greenwood thread in Sages of Realmslore and was pointed in this direction.
Is there any information on the Border Forest and the mountains to the north of it in Mysteries of the Moonsea? Just curious. |
Rich Horrocks |
Edited by - LoneHeroDragon on 21 Jun 2006 18:23:02 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 20:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by FireKnife
I have kept from posting much here or on WoTC because of all the negative comments made on every product that is put out. I enjoy alot of lore and run my own adventures and I still found MoM to be a great book. It was a different layout and we were warned. Simply state hey WoTC needs to go back to a layout like SK or LeOF. Or suggest it with some tact to the game designers. Instead of posting that "hey the artwork sucks or this book is not worth buying" Ed was great enough to share this world of his and the other authors and designers have done a great job expanding this world. WoTC has overall control and there are deadlines and page limits. These designers and authors bust there butts and can't make everyone happy all the time. Ed has always said that our characters should be the heroes or villians of the Realms. We dm's run our version of the realms differently and things we do not like we don't use or we change. Plug in the missing pieces yourself people, books and sourcebooks should be useful tools not excuses for lack of creativity or imagination. To and Ed and all designers and authors thank you for all of that you do, you have made the Realms a wonderful place.
Well met
Very well said, FireKnife  I heartily agree.
Thank ye for sharing this and maybe it will make some think for a while. Glad ya decided to return and join us. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 23:05:13
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I haven't picked this up yet, but I did spend some time with it in Border's today, and to tell you the truth, it doesn't look like a bad sourcebook. It may have a lot of adventure hooks, but just because they are a bit more detailed than the adventure hooks that have been presented in other products, I don't think that is a bad thing.
I'll likely have more to say about it once I officially pick this tome up, but I was not disappointed with what I saw to begin with. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 03:54:01
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Ok, so I've read the Melvaunt Chapter, thoughts so far:
I don't like the format, if they want the adventures make it a soft cover companion book to a hardcover about a region. I think it would be better with half the number of adventures that are all twice as long, as is many are left wanting.
Now on to my big gripe, typos/errors in the adventures. If you going to write a book of adventures make sure they're right. Spoilers will follow about specifics.
Devil's Fire Tavern - claims stats for a character are on page 15, actually on page 31.
The Cursed Warehouse - in room 3 there's a reference to a cursed bracer which should be to a cursed dagger, wouldn't be a major issue except the item is quest critical.
Adventuring in Thar - cut and paste from Sons of Gruumsh, so it's season specific but it really shouldn't be cause the adventures could be run at any time.
Vorbyx's Watchpost - compass on the map is wrong (or the text is wrong)
Chambers of Bone - in Room 1, references to Walls of Force which are never mentioned anywhere else in the adventure so you can't tell what it's talking about. In Room 2 there is a trap that can be avoided by leaving the room, but that's never mentioned in the text and it says the characters are trapped, which they don't seem to be (may be where the walls of force are suppose to be).
Ogres' Stronghold - The map of the fort/description of the text in area 1 doesn't make any sense with the rest of the maps.
I think that's all the issues I've noticed.
If there are any authors here who want to respond, please do.
I may add to this reply with the other chapters or I'll make a new response. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 04:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
If there are any authors here who want to respond, please do.
Your Grievience is with Wil Upchurch Darrins already "Outed him" as the author of the Melvaunt section of the book  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 05:28:49
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Shouldn't the greivance be with the 'playtesters' or editors? or do they not use them for this type of product?  |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 08:34:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The maps are up at Wotc
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20060621a
There at an unusable resolution though
Yeah, if I ever get to use this book I think my scanner will have to do some work. *cries at the thought of what that'll do the spine of the book* |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wil_Upchurch
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 03:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Your Grievience is with Wil Upchurch Darrins already "Outed him" as the author of the Melvaunt section of the book
Gee, thanks Dargoth. 
Again, I haven't seen my copies yet, so I can't compare to my manuscript, but let's see...
quote:
Devil's Fire Tavern - claims stats for a character are on page 15, actually on page 31.
That occurs in layout, nothing to get worked up about though, imo.
quote:
The Cursed Warehouse - in room 3 there's a reference to a cursed bracer which should be to a cursed dagger, wouldn't be a major issue except the item is quest critical.
Can't help you with that one, dunno how or why it is that way.
quote:
Adventuring in Thar - cut and paste from Sons of Gruumsh, so it's season specific but it really shouldn't be cause the adventures could be run at any time.
Guess you'll have to run it during that season? 
quote:
Vorbyx's Watchpost - compass on the map is wrong (or the text is wrong)
Don't have the maps with me.
quote:
Chambers of Bone - in Room 1, references to Walls of Force which are never mentioned anywhere else in the adventure so you can't tell what it's talking about. In Room 2 there is a trap that can be avoided by leaving the room, but that's never mentioned in the text and it says the characters are trapped, which they don't seem to be (may be where the walls of force are suppose to be).
It makes sense on my paper, guess I'll have to see the module.
quote:
Ogres' Stronghold - The map of the fort/description of the text in area 1 doesn't make any sense with the rest of the maps.
Can't speak to that, it makes sense here.
Well, I guess I wasn't much help after all.
Wil |
Wil Upchurch
15th-Level Freelancer
magewebmaster@yahoo.com |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 03:40:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wil_Upchurch
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Your Grievience is with Wil Upchurch Darrins already "Outed him" as the author of the Melvaunt section of the book
Gee, thanks Dargoth.
Consider it payback for this little gem of yours back on October 25 last year! 
quote:
Phlan's dead, guys, or hadn't you heard? I thought about touching on Phlan a bit, but decided against it at the last minute. *waits for the chorus of boos*
All hail Darrin Drader the saviour of Phlan!!!! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Darrin Drader
Forgotten Realms Designer
16 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 03:46:31
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quote:
All hail Darrin Drader the saviour of Phlan!!!!
Oh thanks, that's no pressure or anything. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 04:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrin Drader
quote:
All hail Darrin Drader the saviour of Phlan!!!!
Oh thanks, that's no pressure or anything.
Just ignore that sword hanging above your head Darrin!
By the way is the Phlan WE feature locked or are you open to suggestions? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Darrin Drader
Forgotten Realms Designer
16 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 04:26:28
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quote:
By the way is the Phlan WE feature locked or are you open to suggestions?
At this point, consider me very suggestible. At least for the next day or two.
By the way, I'm also responsible for the D20 Future update of the Sathar via web enhancement. I'm firmly grounded in classic gaming, so that's one of my favorite pieces of work - well, of the online variety, anyway. |
Edited by - Darrin Drader on 23 Jun 2006 04:29:22 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 04:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrin Drader
At this point, consider me very suggestible. At least for the next day or two.
Will you use/update the already existing map of the Pyramid ?
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 04:51:59
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A few suggestions and ideas
Any chance you could use the City of Splendors style write ups for the Churches of Tyr (Plus the Paladin order chapter house), Tymora and Sune in Phlan
I also wouldnt mind seeing timeline advancement for various sites that appear in Pool of Radience/Ruins of Adventures
The Nomad tribe for example would make a great source for 3.5ed Human Barbarians
Mantors Libary may have been rebuilt as Church of Denier or Oghma or a Monastary for Monks from the Zealots of Written Word (Deneir) or Children of the Passive voice
An interesting plot hook for Phlan might be Cult of the Dragon agents trying to recover Srossars bones (Srossar was the possessed Bronze Dragon from PoR)
There was also a Silver Dragon living in the Dragonspine mountains who you can run into in PoR computer game (She doesnt appear in the module or novel) it would be interesting to see what its up to these days (Year of Rogue Dragons and all that)
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 07:16:03
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In Zhentil Keep / Desmonda.
She uses minor image to appear as human, but this spell is a figment, not a glamer.. I can't understand that such an error can be made after so many years of D&D 3.X
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Zeboaster of Ordulin
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 15:54:17
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Rassendyll and Selfaril
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Is it just me, or the tale of how Rassendylll took down Selfaril given in the Mulmaster section different from the tale in Mage in the Iron Mask? I thought all FR novels were considered Canon (except for Once Around the Realms I mean  ).
Why the difference (I mean other than the fact that the Mage in the Iron Mask is a direct clone of Man in the Iron Mask).?[8|
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Zeboaster, a distinguised character known for his sarcasm and perfumed beard, is currently in hiding after making one too many witty and/or truthful remarks.
FRA p96 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 03:35:51
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You know it's funny, I'm one of the people that's been kinda miffed that so many NPCs just get a little parathesis with classes and levels on only the major NPCs get stat blocks. Then Mysteries of the Moonsea comes out and it's feels like every other people is a character's stat block.
I REALLY REALLY wish they'd just do a Heros and Villians Lorebook of old. The way D&D books are marketed by Wizards these days, they could easily do the two and cover all the major and minor NPCs from the novels and important cities that we'd want/need. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 04:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeboaster of Ordulin
Rassendyll and Selfaril
----
Is it just me, or the tale of how Rassendylll took down Selfaril given in the Mulmaster section different from the tale in Mage in the Iron Mask? I thought all FR novels were considered Canon (except for Once Around the Realms I mean ).
Why the difference (I mean other than the fact that the Mage in the Iron Mask is a direct clone of Man in the Iron Mask).?[8|
]
Since I didn't read that book, and it isn't very high on my backlog list, care to expound upon the differences between the accounts? |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 17:50:24
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Ok, more from me.
Yet again will contain spoilers
An additional thing from the Melvaunt chapter:
The Tomb of Vorbyx - duration for The Cave of Gems ability, I assume it's permenant but would be nice to know for sure.
Hillsfar Chapter:
The lack of Character Hooks to connect the various quests in this chapter is a bit of a annoyance, because they really just seem like encounter locations rather than actual quests.
Deadly Arboretum - Area 8 mentions a "nearby roper tree" but there isn't one indicated on the map
Red Wizards Enclave - a map of the overall enclave would have been nice, not the interiors of all the buildings just an overview
The Bell in the Depths - Marel? Why the need to create another elf varient, they could just have easily been evil sea elves, without a needing a new name.
Ruins in Cormantor - eleven pillars mentioned in text only 10 on the map
Abarat's Folly - The portals are described as a circle of elven runes on the wall of the room they're in, but the rooms are all larger than the tower allows, so is the ring on the orginal wall of the tower or the new "wall", and if it's on the old wall, that suggests the old walls exist and this the fact that the rooms are transdimensionally larger is moot cause there's a wall in the way.
Mulmaster Chapter:
The description of how Rassendyll replaced his brother does not match with Mage in the Iron Mask
Undercity Sewer - Large creatures abound all behind 5 foot wide doors and coridors. And there's a Huge creature down a series of 5 foot wide hallways and doors, so it's trapped there. And where did all these monstrous creatures come from?
Thayan Enclave - In room 13 it says a character starts combat by using his staff of power, however he doesn't have a staff of power listed in his stats
Seaside caves - In room 9 there is a chasm this is crossed by a bridge according to the text, no bridge on the map though. Room 10 has a magical shield listed as treasure but it lacks a plus value
The Pillar of Fire - has Enthranos used the pillar of fire?
The Elemental Scourge - In room 3 it mentions an engraving on the wall of the room, what it's of or about isn't mentioned.
Designers?
Zhentil Keep to come once I've read it. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 19:39:21
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| The elves of the Bell of the Depths actually existed in 1e/2e. :) The Moonsea sourcebook I believe is where they are mentioned/detailed. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 24 Jun 2006 20:45:20 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 20:11:44
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| I thought the Marel sounded familiar when I read about them, but I was only skimming last night, have yet to sit down and do an in depth disection of the book . . . thanks Kuje . . . |
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Topic |
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Mysteries of Moonsea?!?
