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Wil_Upchurch
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
45 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 15:32:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not to disagree with Wil but it's not set in the recent date in the timeline since the recent date is 1374 and page five clearly states that Mysteries is set in 1373. :)
Why wouldn't you disagree with me when I'm wrong? :p I haven't seen my copy yet, so that's what I get for working off old information. :) That's the stuff developers get paid to do...sounds like WotC may be more on the ball than some people are giving them credit for. :) |
Wil Upchurch
15th-Level Freelancer
magewebmaster@yahoo.com |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 17:10:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wil_Upchurch
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not to disagree with Wil but it's not set in the recent date in the timeline since the recent date is 1374 and page five clearly states that Mysteries is set in 1373. :)
Why wouldn't you disagree with me when I'm wrong? :p I haven't seen my copy yet, so that's what I get for working off old information. :) That's the stuff developers get paid to do...sounds like WotC may be more on the ball than some people are giving them credit for. :)
Because I've been yelled at for disagreeding with game designers/authors to many times and so it makes me hesitate to do so. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 17:58:11
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Finally! My FLGS just got the book! 'Twill be in my hands in approximately 4.25 hours! 
(And Sage -- I'll get 3058U at the same time, and laugh in your general direction while drooling over the new stuff!   ) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 22:48:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Wil Upcurch
And if you want novels, buy novels, not game books.
The day Forgotten Realms novels become five hundred pages with a strong focus on social, geographical and cultural themes with history and character studies thrown in I will.
An area book should, in my opinion primarily give information about an area. Adventures are fine for adventure books, but shouldn't the books made for detailing an area do just that?
I think this book will be a refreshing addition to any FR DM's collection. I don't have it yet, but the excerpts have shown it to be a "must buy" for me :) I like the idea about a book that mixes area lore with "ready-to-run" quests and campaign ideas. Even if I would never run a campaign around Moonsea area, I will probably use/modify the quests for another campaign. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2006 : 01:03:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
(And Sage -- I'll get 3058U at the same time, and laugh in your general direction while drooling over the new stuff! )
Ready the Stealth Lances!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2006 : 23:24:38
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Wasn't there originally going to have been some material on Ironfang Keep included in MoM? Maybe I missed it when I looked through the book at the store this week, but outside of being noted on a map, I didn't see anything on the place at all.
I'd been seriously hoping on something, anything, on that particular location in the book.
*fiendish little whine*
(But the WE you're working on Darrin, that looks really spiffy. I can at least be happy about that.) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 01:10:46
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Any news on these NPCs in MoM?
Ailoth LE Supposed outcast from the Red Wizards of Thay
Glinda Scatterstar NG leader of the Mage Guild of Hillsfar
Diane Halistinar NG Former cleric of Sune (Heretic of the Faith?)
Barand Hithin CG leader of the Church of Lliira in Hillsfar
Mordak Brekkiar CN Maathiirs apprentice
Thurlock the Anagoue LN Mercenary Diviner
Dounalis Guff CN Leader of the Church of Tempus in Hillsfar
Mulmaster
Naneetha Danchul CG Leader of the Church of Tymora in Mulmaster
Thiondred Calambar LN one of Mulmasters Battlemasters
Gulgath CN Plane walker Wizard
Ghallas Khenstar CN Leader of the Church of Tempus in Mulmaster
Dondabbar Kesker CN Leader of the Church of Waukeen in Mulmaster
Ghondomeir Hazathal LN LEader of the Church of Azuth in Mulmaster
Zhentil Keep
Shanalar CN Grifin Riding Wizard who opposses the Zhentarim (Sounds like Knight of the North or Harper to me)
Shonra Shalassalar Leader of the Zhentil Keep Thieves guild
Baergus CN Merchant
Ringult Hornhelm CN Merchant
Ulgrym CN Zhentilar Officer
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 18 Jun 2006 01:40:27 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 01:50:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Any news on these NPCs in MoM?
Ailoth LE Supposed outcast from the Red Wizards of Thay
Glinda Scatterstar NG leader of the Mage Guild of Hillsfar
Diane Halistinar NG Former cleric of Sune
Barand Hithin CG leader of the Church of Lliira in Hillsfar
Mordak Brekkiar CN Maathiirs apprentice
Thurlock the Anagoue LN Mercenary Diviner
Dounalis Guff CN Leader of the Church of Tempus in Hillsfar
Mulmaster
Naneetha Danchul CG Leader of the Church of Tymora in Mulmaster
Thiondred Calambar LN one of Mulmasters Battlemasters
Gulgath CN Plane walker Wizard
Ghallas Khenstar CN Leader of the Church of Tempus in Mulmaster
Dondabbar Kesker CN Leader of the Church of Waukeen in Mulmaster
Ghondomeir Hazathal LN LEader of the Church of Azuth in Mulmaster
Zhentil Keep
Shanalar CN Grifin Riding Wizard who opposses the Zhentarim (Sounds like Knight of the North or Harper to me)
Shonra Shalassalar Leader of the Zhentil Keep Thieves guild
Baergus CN Merchant
Ringult Hornhelm CN Merchant
Ulgrym CN Zhentilar Officer
Girella and Mordak both have write ups. Dounalis is mentioned in the Vault of Sword entry. Don't see the rest mentioned for Hillsfar.
Gulgath is mentioned in the important people section of the city write up. Looks like Ghallas died or has been replaced since there is a new high priest and that's the same for the Tymora church and Azuth's. Don't see any info on Waukeen's temple nor the battlemaster.
Zhent keep thieves guild has a new leader. Not seeing any of the other NPCs you requested being mentioned. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Jun 2006 01:51:56 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 02:00:28
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So nothing for Ailoth either? Thats abit disappointing Ailoth orgionally appeared in the Old Grey Boxset and I was interested to see what he was doing now that theres a Red Wizard enclave in Hillsfar
Shanalar screams Knights of the North to me and she would have made a Good KOTN agent inside Zhentil keep |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 02:13:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
So nothing for Ailoth either? Thats abit disappointing Ailoth orgionally appeared in the Old Grey Boxset and I was interested to see what he was doing now that theres a Red Wizard enclave in Hillsfar
Shanalar screams Knights of the North to me and she would have made a Good KOTN agent inside Zhentil keep
Notta for Ailoth as far as I can see and I'd say either he either left the city, fled, stayed in the city, or died since there's a Red Wizzie Enclave in the city now. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Jun 2006 02:14:14 |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 05:36:42
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| More than likely, Ailoth got promoted when the enclave was established. Look, there's an enclave here, good job. Here is your new research post with extra slave girls and some animated Rashemi to serve you. Have a nice day. :) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 09:33:13
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I'm confused.
Did someone a few posts ago accuse of me wanting/liking crunch? *boggle*
I don't want crunch or novels.. That makes me the uber-one out. I just want big sourcebooks full of history and lore. Not in novel form. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 11:05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I'm confused.
Did someone a few posts ago accuse of me wanting/liking crunch? *boggle*
I don't want crunch or novels.. That makes me the uber-one out. I just want big sourcebooks full of history and lore. Not in novel form.
Sorry Dan, that was me  I misread what you were saying so I apologize. I'd be quite happy to have FR sourcebooks full of fluff, and also read the novels. If I want stats and rules, i'd pick up a D&D core rulebook. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 14:53:32
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Hi,
Having been through a couple of aventures in the Melvaunt section i can make a bit more comments on the book.
I must say that some of the descriptions are very confusing and lack details to give a correct understanding of what the locations is, or of what in contains. Most of the traps need more details also. Some of them, like the porticullis section of the cave level of the Red Devil's Tavern is just too confusing to understand. It misses some text.
Maybe it's me though, being french and all. But i read tons of modules of adventures before and i never had any difficulty undertanding the descriptions.
Secondly, there is no minimum stats for generic npc enemies. If their is two fighter 2 in a room, you get (fighter 2 (2), 19hp, 23gp, 4 sp) No AC. One must assume we are to take the generic stats from the npcs in the DMG. Monsters are refered to their pages in the MM. I much prefered the old modules where they gave stats for all npcs at the end of the module. This is going to generate much work for the DM that doesn't want to use the DMG stats and add a little particularity to a dungeon. After 7 or 8 fighter 2 with the exact same equipment and stats, i would get tired of the same old routine.
That being said, the story around the adventures are very interesting.
Sincerely,
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 23:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Looks like Ghallas died or has been replaced since there is a new high priest and that's the same for the Tymora church and Azuth's. Don't see any info on Waukeen's temple.
Perhaps Selfaril was heard to mutter those fateful words "Who will rid me of this troublesome High Priest" and his underling not knowing which High priest was troubling their lord (And to afraid to ask!) killed all the High Priests in Mulmaster! 
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 01:27:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Looks like Ghallas died or has been replaced since there is a new high priest and that's the same for the Tymora church and Azuth's. Don't see any info on Waukeen's temple.
Perhaps Selfaril was heard to mutter those fateful words "Who will rid me of this troublesome High Priest" and his underling not knowing which High priest was troubling their lord (And to afraid to ask!) killed all the High Priests in Mulmaster!
HHAHAHA. :) That made me LoL. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Darrin Drader
Forgotten Realms Designer
16 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 02:08:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrakis
Hi,
Having been through a couple of aventures in the Melvaunt section i can make a bit more comments on the book.
I must say that some of the descriptions are very confusing and lack details to give a correct understanding of what the locations is, or of what in contains. Most of the traps need more details also. Some of them, like the porticullis section of the cave level of the Red Devil's Tavern is just too confusing to understand. It misses some text.
Maybe it's me though, being french and all. But i read tons of modules of adventures before and i never had any difficulty undertanding the descriptions.
You'll have to yell at Wil since that was his section. I can say with the utmost certainty that the Mulmaster descriptions are as clear as day. 
quote:
Secondly, there is no minimum stats for generic npc enemies. If their is two fighter 2 in a room, you get (fighter 2 (2), 19hp, 23gp, 4 sp) No AC. One must assume we are to take the generic stats from the npcs in the DMG. Monsters are refered to their pages in the MM. I much prefered the old modules where they gave stats for all npcs at the end of the module. This is going to generate much work for the DM that doesn't want to use the DMG stats and add a little particularity to a dungeon. After 7 or 8 fighter 2 with the exact same equipment and stats, i would get tired of the same old routine.
This was a space saving measure. You have no choice but to cut corners when they tell you to write a complete adventure in 2,000 words or less. I would like to recommend an excellent program called NPC designer, though, which is available here: http://www.rpgattitude.com/ There's a free trial available so you can take it out for a test drive before you decide that it's for you. It's cheap, and it's more accurate than 90% of your garden variety game designers. |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 02:49:04
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So now for a $30 price tag we have to go buy 3rd party software to actually flesh out modules 
Incomplete lore and incomplete crunch???
It seems the Mysteries of the title is actually refering to the missing content rather than being an actual realms signifier...
...I am not pleased  . |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 03:25:23
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That is not what he was saying. It was merely a recommendation. Besides, some folks -- myself included -- are happier with the option of doing the crunch ourselves. It doesn't even require software.
You complain about incomlete lore, but how much lore would have had to have been excised to make room for more crunch? You can't have it both ways...
It was made clear to us months ago what the layout of this book would be. If you aren't happy with that, let Wizards know by not buying it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 03:30:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You complain about incomlete lore, but how much lore would have had to have been excised to make room for more crunch? You can't have it both ways...
Well you could if Wizards gave us back 32 page |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 04:26:57
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Eh,
Hmm, well, i was not exactly complaining Wooly, just stating a fact the seemed to be important for a potential buyer. In regional modules, i tend to prefer lore to too much crunch like feats and PrCs. But in an adventure module? My first reflex would assume i get a bit of stats for the monster we encounter and good descriptions of rooms and traps so i understand what the PCs will encounter or visit. MoM is another kind of beast though. It is part regional module, part adventure and in that form, i'm sure the ratio crunch lore begins to be a real headache. As a first experience, MoM is very good but the sacrifice made on the adventure details side is a bit much. I think they could adjust it a bit on the next project.
Oh and mister Darren, i understand the limitations and space factor and i appreciate the work you've all done.
Thanks
Pat
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Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 06:13:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You complain about incomlete lore, but how much lore would have had to have been excised to make room for more crunch? You can't have it both ways...
It was made clear to us months ago what the layout of this book would be. If you aren't happy with that, let Wizards know by not buying it.
I understand your point Wooly, but then it becomes a case of I'm cursed if I do and cursed if don't...
If i do buy it then it sends WOTC the signal that "hey we can sell incomplete stuff and fans will still buy it" a trend I see more and more each year it seems.
If I don't buy it, then WOTC can say, "Sales are down, oh the Realms is an old horse...time to put it to pasture".
When the OCS sells for $40 new at 320 pages of content, how can anyone defend their position for selling a book with half the content (160 pages) for 75% of the price?
That works out to 12 and 1/2 cents per page for the OCS.
compared to 18 and 3/4 cents per page for this book.
Thats an inflation of nearly 50% since 2001.
I want to support the realms comercially....and I agree yes I can do the some of the work as you said...but if they are going to give me incomplete filler on both ends (content and crunch) and we can only hope for web enhancements...when does 'not enough' become 'too much'? $40 for 80 pages accessories in 2011? |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Edited by - Chyron on 19 Jun 2006 06:22:22 |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 11:18:21
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This is no reflection on the writers of MoM, but I prefer the old style regional books. I would much rather build adventures off a throwaway line describing a place then have a series of adventures that basically plot out a campaign.
Again, this isn't any reflection on the authors, as the Fluff interspaced throughout the book was pretty good, this just isn't my ideal form for a book. I hope to see more books like LEoF and less books like MoM in design in the future. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 14:29:36
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A question for those who have it
Does MoM assume the character are Good aligned or are the modules playable with a, shall we say Morally challenged party?
Thanks in advance
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 16:33:29
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Hello-
Dargoth - I just started raeding this (Ive been busy) and in the intro pages it does in fact mention that it is designed for good/neutral aligned parties. However - it points out that w/ a 'morally challenged party' some of teh villians and adversaries could end up being allies and mentors - so it could change the whole gist of some of the adventures.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 16:55:32
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Let me get this straight for myself!
MotM is no a mere sourcebook but more or less filled with adventures and adventure hooks?
Have to check it out at our local book store as soon as possible! I was so satisfied with the last regional books (especially Silver Marches). Hope not to be too disappointed in the end.
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 17:17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Let me get this straight for myself!
MotM is no a mere sourcebook but more or less filled with adventures and adventure hooks?
Have to check it out at our local book store as soon as possible! I was so satisfied with the last regional books (especially Silver Marches). Hope not to be too disappointed in the end.
Ergdusch
You are correct. It is not a typical regional sourcebook. Mysteries of the Moonsea is a collection of adventure outlines from Zhentil Keep, Melvaunt, Hillsfar, and Mulmaster.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 17:27:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wilson
This is no reflection on the writers of MoM, but I prefer the old style regional books. I would much rather build adventures off a throwaway line describing a place then have a series of adventures that basically plot out a campaign.
Again, this isn't any reflection on the authors, as the Fluff interspaced throughout the book was pretty good, this just isn't my ideal form for a book. I hope to see more books like LEoF and less books like MoM in design in the future.
That's my opinion, as well. I knew what I was getting, so I can't really complain -- but I can say I'd've been a lot happier with a more lore-centered focus. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 20:17:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Let me get this straight for myself!
MotM is no a mere sourcebook but more or less filled with adventures and adventure hooks?
Have to check it out at our local book store as soon as possible! I was so satisfied with the last regional books (especially Silver Marches). Hope not to be too disappointed in the end.
Ergdusch
You are correct. It is not a typical regional sourcebook. Mysteries of the Moonsea is a collection of adventure outlines from Zhentil Keep, Melvaunt, Hillsfar, and Mulmaster.
Mmmhhh! what shall I make of that now? Disappointed? Well I will go check it out anyway. Always best to take a look at things first before judging. I might like it once I hold it in my hands and flip the pages.
After all - the art might be well done... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 04:09:59
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| well we can at least have hope for Dragons of the Realms being a decent book! |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Mysteries of Moonsea?!?
