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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 22:55:18
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Exactly. Human world (ours and FR's) don't apply to fae creatures or Faerie. I still don't believe in evolution like from apes to humans. Adaption, yes, but I will never believe in scientific thought and beliefs. That's probably why, in the real world, the less more and more people believe in magic and the Fae, the more farther apart our realms are to eachother. Though faeries seem to have no problem crossing over.
Ba k on topic-
Probably the fact that Eladrin and Elves live so long is because that they are fey. Fae creatures are more or less immortal. JUST because they are faey alone. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 23:29:01
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Actually, I have read many scientific treatise, which is why I find them all rubbish. More then half the 'facts' I learned back in school have been proven patently false.
Or do you still think dinosaurs power your car?
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Still waiting for a citation on that dragon non-sense.
I had a big, long post here in response, but this isn't the right thread. This is the 'boiled-out' version:
Regardless, I couldn't find it right-away and didn't really care if anyone believed me or not. IIRC, it was from a TV program, probably on the History channel, and may have even been on an episode of Naked Archaeologist (I can't seem to find the entire episode online).
I could continue to search for it, but why? Doesn't matter to me - I just thought it was an interesting theory. If you'd rather, we could just say Aboleths and Cthulhu created all the dragons. Its all good.
On Topic:
In a magical universe, why do we need an explanation for elven longevity? Because of the lore of D&D (and its chaotic, often contradictory nature), we could could blame it on anything, including their diet. Elves live a long time because..... elves live a long time. You might as well ask why humans live to around 70 (rather then 25, or 200). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2011 23:29:59 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 23:40:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I'm not sure evolution is actually applicable in the Realms, or any other D&D world.
I'd say this is a case similar to the physics of the Realms being so different as not to allow electronic devices and technology to work. Perhaps the process of evolution in the Realms also works in an alternate way. |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 23:48:05
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Do you want an in game reason...or a historical/folklore reason as to why elves live so long?......Leshay & original Eladrin are immortal...elves their mortal offspring..... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Edited by - Snowblood on 19 Mar 2011 00:25:11 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 23:52:14
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Finally, people who do not apply science to everything.
@Markustay
What did you find rubbish? And what?!?!? Dinos don't power cars?'?! :O |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:10:37
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Middle-Earth humans (originally named Atani, or "Second People" by the elven Quenya) were said by Tolkien to all be descended from the Edain, themselves descended from the original Atanatári formed by the creator god Ilúvatar. The essence of elves was immortally bound to the world, but men were given the gift of mortality; they originally enjoyed lifespans of many centuries and some of the races (ethnic groups) of mankind in the Third and Fourth Ages (particular those with Númenórean lineage) still possess longevity which greatly exceeds that of other men. Tolkien's explanation for this human longevity is usually given as their greater connection to the true magic of the world (and thus to the Valar, Ilúvatar, and typically the Quenya); some mortals (some races of men and many kings and champions) simply possess bloodlines which haven't been as diluted by Sauron's corrupting influence on the world.
This is somewhat similar to the extraordinary longevity claimed (documented apocryphally) by ancient genealogies in the Hebrew Testament and Book of Genesis, Chinese and Japanese imperial dynasties, Persian shahs, Sumerian kings, and many others; there are legendary Islamic, Hindu, Greek, and Roman figures with terrific lifespans (though no Egyptian or Norse ones that I know of, probably because their religions were largely obsessed with death) ... the general premise is that ancient men lived longer than men today, though still there are noble bloodlines (often blessed or descended from divine sources) who are fated to accomplish great deeds and live long lifespans.
Would it not be so in the Realms, both for elves and men? Perhaps remarkably long-lived humans (such as Elminster) are special in no small part due to the pedigree of their parents? How many humans in Faerûn might unknowingly possess some small trace of elven or even draconic blood in their past? |
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Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Mar 2011 00:21:07 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:13:21
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In the 2e Draconimicon, there is one theory espoused by Terrance Balancehand of Scornubel, in his treatise Evolution and Creation (pg.5):
He states that evolution and creation are NOT mutually exclusive. Now I have been saying something similar for quite some time (based upon the premise of the Wellworld novels), almost since I first started playing RPGs.
'The Gods' decide they want something, but their are certain rules to the universe. You can spontaneously create a single creature, but it will most-likely be a 'mule' (infertile), or not be viable (will die for various reasons, like not knowing how to even feed itself). So what 'the gods' do is set a certain set of events in motion that will lead to the evolution of precisely what they want. Such a pre-designed (and pre-destined) race will be far more viable, because it will have evolved within its own niche and ecology, and will be capable of sustaining itself and its offspring.
Ergo (at the risk of going 'RW' for a moment), God could have easily created Man, simply by setting up the universe in such a way that man will evolve precisely the way he wanted naturally, within his own ecosystem.
The reason why this theory is provided in the 2e Draconimicon is because of all the dragons all over the multiverse, and on almost every world the fossil-record shows they evolved there. This indicates that while being a naturally occurring event, something must have set the events in motion, for so many species to not only evolve precisely the same, but even be capable of inter-breeding.
BTW, I do NOT follow this theory (in D&D) any more - I am now of the 'one world split-asunder at the beginning of time' theory. That way, you can use as much - or little - of both creation and evolution as you want (and I think all current D&D races are the product of both).
None of the current crop of creatures - intelligent species included - is the same as the proto-creature that it stemmed from (even elves have evolved, REGARDLESS of what some folks think). So you can imagine some ancient, primordial critter being created (and nurtured) by 'the gods', and then left to evolve on its own, in a myriad of forms (and there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of human sub-races in D&D, like the Gith, Elan, and Skulks).
That is why I feel races from various worlds can inter-breed, and why just evolution alone won't account for that.
BTW, while looking for strange human variants, I remembered a doofy-looking human sub-type with really long hands and feet, but for the life of me I can't remember what book it was in.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Mar 2011 00:33:18 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:18:30
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| I'm not at all surprised to see the theory of Intelligent Design appear in Sembia. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:23:13
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elves are originally Scandinavian in origin...immortal faerie like folk who live in woodlands, and forested hills, and who cause mischief and who must be appeased. They were/are the immortal spirits of the woodlands... In Irish folk lore the Tuatha De Danun...were more like the Eladrin of 2E, tall statuesque folk from the Seelie realms, and who lived in a twilight realm within hills & barrows, and whose world was accessible only at Sahmain - Halloween.....this is a potted version here are some links to help you...
http://www.shee-eire.com/magic&mythology/races/tuatha-de-danann/page1.
htm http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/danann.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf
http://www.articlesbase.com/art-and-entertainment-articles/where-do-elves-come-from-125519.html
good luck with making your own mind up...what ever works best for you....cheers.
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Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Edited by - Snowblood on 19 Mar 2011 00:27:01 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:24:35
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| I hate the idea of evolution......... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:39:40
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Did you know The Big Bang Theory was actually created by the Catholic Church?
And scientists embrace that theory today: It all comes full-circle.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:47:20
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Whaaaa? I'm stickng to my deity's creation story lol. I like my magical world :D
Call me crazy if you will :) |
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Elestar
Acolyte
Hungary
27 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:48:17
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Makustay, I can totally see that creation can be non-mutual but one sided and authoritarian also, but just as you say, it might more likely result in something imperfect. I only think that when a racial deity creates his or her own race, it just can not happen whithout some reflection, as neither the deity not the race cannot really exist without one another. Sort of like a chicken-egg dilemma.
Gods of pure concept such as law, chaos, evil, and goodness, etc. may effortlessly create whatever fits their goals and do it flawlessly, so I imagine, but creating the the exclusive race of worshippers presupposes - for me - a very intimate bond from the very formation of the idea.
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Edited by - Elestar on 19 Mar 2011 01:00:43 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:54:12
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| Oh yeah, and dragons were/are real. I know (I think) what MT is talking about be ause I have the DVD of that whole thing. A mother dragon and her daughter were found frozen in a cave in Romania. The mother died defending the daughter from ignorant humans (who also died and the daughter as well). There are dragons maybe still in this realm annd cerainly in Faerie. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 01:34:11
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I appeal to my fellow scribes to not lock this interesting thread into an Evolution-vs-Creationism (or I.D.) argument; many forums already exist for such discussion and Candlekeep is not really one of them. I'd very much rather not see the usual obligatory parade of Darwin, Galileo, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Mendel, and Laplace tiredly strutted about through these hallowed halls ...
In any event, we've apparently already accepted a consensus supporting the fact that evolution plays little role in regards to elves (and humans and other races) of the Realms; their origins are canonically well established as being an act of divine creation. I think we can all accept that magic supercedes science within the Realms setting and just move on. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Mar 2011 01:39:40 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 01:41:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I appeal to my fellow scribes to not lock this interesting thread into an Evolution-vs-Creationism (or I.D.) argument; many forums already exist for such discussion and Candlekeep is not really one of them. I'd very much rather not see the usual obligatory parade of Darwin, Galileo, Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Mendel, and Laplace tiredly strutted about through these hallowed halls ...
In any event, we've apparently already accepted a consensus supporting the fact that evolution plays little role in regards to elves (and humans and other races) of the Realms; their origins are canonically well established as being an act of divine creation. I think we can all accept that magic supercedes science within the Realms setting and just move on.
I very much concur. |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 01:46:40
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| I as well. I find it much more entertaining to discuss the fey in general. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:04:06
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The question remains: Why were elves given such long lifespans? To what purpose? Why did humans receive so much less?
The Cormyr novel (and various other sources, notably the Arcane Ages sourcebooks) seem to touch upon this in a tangential way. Dragons vastly outlive elves, just as elves vastly outlive humans; yet the greatest achievements and accomplishments of these races are always measured in generations instead of years. Human nations and empires (and deities) can rise and fall, grow, diminish, war, and become extinct within a single elf's lifetime; lost elven civilizations are still remembered by the ancient dragons who flew over their magnificent cities. It's oft been suggested that human drives and impetus exceed those of elves because of comparatively short human lifespans; humans have fewer years to shape the world wherein they (and their children's children) will live their lives.
Are humans then designed by their gods to burn brighter and faster, to accelerate the growth of their world? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Mar 2011 02:08:03 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:13:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The question remains: Why were elves given such long lifespans? To what purpose? Why did humans receive so much less?
The Cormyr novel (and various other sources, notably the Arcane Ages sourcebooks) seem to touch upon this in a tangential way. Dragons vastly outlive elves, just as elves vastly outlive humans; yet the greatest achievements and accomplishments of these races are always measured in generations instead of years. Human nations and empires (and deities) can rise and fall, grow, diminish, war, and become extinct within a single elf's lifetime; lost elven civilizations are still remembered by the ancient dragons who flew over their magnificent cities. It's oft been suggested that human drives and impetus exceed those of elves because of comparatively short human lifespans; humans have fewer years to shape the world they (and their children's children) will live within.
Are humans then designed by their gods to burn brighter and faster, to accelerate the growth of their world?
Perhaps its a reflection of the gods... Elven deities believe in frolicking and having fun, so their children (the elves, not divine kiddies) are given long lifespans -- because if you don't have to worry about tomorrow, then you're going to enjoy yourself today.
Dwarven deities value hard work and craftsmanship, and the best way to excel at a craft is to have centuries to practice it... Hence dwarven lifespans.
Human deities, on the other hand, want their children to leave a mark on the world. And few things are as compelling for acting today as the knowledge you won't be able to do it tomorrow... So humans have shorter lifespans to drive them to reach as far as they can, as quickly as they can.
So looking at it this way, a racial lifespan is a reflection of what that race's deities want from that race.
In other words, yes.  |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:17:06
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| If I'm not mistaken, the Tel'Quessir have left the greatest marks on Faerun's history. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:34:13
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MT- I think Erdrick was referring to my discussion of half-dragons from the Council of Wyrms book regarding draconic inter-species breeding. So, since it's one of hte few books that is NOT currently in storage (I use it ALL the time for my half-dragon twin PC's) I'll cite it. Just to let folks see that I DO know what I'm talking about.
CoW, Sec 1, pg 28-29: "Half-dragons are ONLY(my emphasis) born to demihuman females. Polymorphed dragons NEVER(again, my emphasis) produce offspring from dalliances with demihuman males, and a dragon using a polymorph self spell can't produce half-dragon offspring.
Few physical features definitively mark a newborn babe as a half-dragon, though there are telltale signs of a dragon parent- usually eyes or hair of gold, silver, or bronze(the only dragons in that era who could create half-dragon offspring- my note). As they reach adulthood, half-dragons grow tall and lean, no matter what demihuman blood mixes with their draconic heritage. During adolescence, draconic abilities begin to manifest themselves. These abilities become stronger and more pronounced with time and use, until a half-dragon comes into his or her full power.....
A fully mature half-dragon appears a a very tall, very lithe humanoid with certain features- a slender frame, lean muscles, long limbs....skin has the look and texture of demihuman flesh, though she has the pigmentation of her draconic parent: Golden, silver, or bronze-tinged flesh. Her hair is ...of a deeper or richer shade of her flesh's color. Her fingers are long and thin, with nails like talons.....her face has a distinctive reptilian appearance: snakelike eyes, elongated features, and the barest hint of horns protruding from above the temples. Half-dragons have no wings, no tails, and no scales."
CoW, Sec 2, gs108-110: This entire set of pages deals with dragon mating, reproduction (both reptilian and mammalian elements, per pg 109) and egg-laying and hatching. Not going to quote all of it here, cause it's too long, but the gist is that they can only reproduce by laying eggs, which is why only the males can produce half-dragon offspring.
@Elestar- my description of half-dragons was not so much a house-rule as simply using the rules and descriptions from the CoW book, which was the earliest definitive source on the subject, and had full, complete, and definite rules and stat adjustments for all three of the original half-dragon types (metallics only, remember!).
As to why elves live longer, perhaps Arik has the right of it, humans do everything faster, have more children in a shorter time, build and change things faster, and grow and learn more quickly. Perhaps they simply "burn out" more quickly as a result?
As Kurgan from Highlander said, "It's better to burn out, than to fade away!" |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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Elestar
Acolyte
Hungary
27 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:35:44
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That sounds pretty clever and acceptable to me, Wooly.
Torning Faerûn asunder as elves did, it's quite a mark indeed. 
Thank you for the clarification, Alystra! It is just the better, that way.
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Edited by - Elestar on 19 Mar 2011 02:39:38 |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:37:32
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I think it's important to remember the origin of D&D in the fact that it was meant to create a fantasy setting. Jumping to a seemingly-random tangent might help. When the writers of Star Trek needed to get around the laws of physics, they just create [insert technobabble] to explain it. The reason we enjoy Sci-Fi and Fantasy is the suspension of disbelief. What is happening in this thread is the direct infusion of disbelief into a topic (fantasy) meant to avoid it. There are absolutely some scientific facts that must be present for us to understand the book as a reader. Things must fall down unless an explanation is given. People should need to breathe air, fire should burn wood, water should put out fire, et cetera. The idea of fantasy is to take what is known and make it spectacular. Magic is just beyond what science can explain. We know how to make humans fly now (although we didn't over 100 years ago) but we have angels who can fly because it makes them seem divine. Any physicist can tell you that a dragon would need a wingspan of about a mile to actually fly based on mass-to-thrust ratio, but we suspend disbelief because we want dragons to fly. That's why I agree with swifty's original post: quote:
...[doesn't] make much sense to me.
Exactly! If it did, it wouldn't be fantasy. It's been fun trying to come up with explanations as to why the elves might live longer, but if we actually figured it out, it would no longer be fantasy.
When I tire of all things divine, I ask Milil to sing me a song and lull me into the world of the fantastic...
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 02:41:49
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| Wasn't it Ed himself that there are some things in the realms mortals just weren't meant to understand? I think this is one of them! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 19 Mar 2011 02:42:45 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 07:57:13
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People keep using my name in regards to elves {where's my 'yuck' smiley?}
I do like the sound of 'greatest mark', though. I may have to get a shirt with that on it. 
Anyhow, I did have a point, but it kinda got lost in my penchant to be annoying (YES, I freely admit it). My point was that even in D&D, and FR, and even in regards to such 'magical' races as elves, evolution DOES OCCUR.
Even if they were 'spontaneously created'.
Sea Elves derived from normal elves, as did (I assume) Lythari and Avariel. Dwarves have 'fractured' into several subspecies, as have gnomes, halflings, orcs, dragons (ESPECIALLY dragons), etc, etc... and I have already mentioned three huiman sub-races (and there are dozens more in D&D). Even aberrations - like illithids and beholders - have their own 'aberrations'. Lycanthropy and vampirism are two sorts of 'magical evolution'. In fact, just about any template counts as an evolutionary step.
So 'The Gods' may have created a single Elven race, and a single human race, and single dwarven race, ad infinitum (and I do believe that is precisely what happened), but the fracturing of those races into all the sub-groups was an evolutionary process (even if magic was involved - in a magical world, magic itself becomes part of the process).
Or are you trying to say that Corellon foresaw the Drow and created them on purpose? I find that bit hard to believe.
Chaos theory - "Life will find a way" - Dr. Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park
In fact, most of the psionic races are evolutionary off-shoots of existing races. So whether you believe psionics are real or not doesn't matter, because in D&D it has been established that it is part of the evolutionary process (and in most cases 'forced', apparently, but there are examples of 'natural selection', like goblin Blues).
The Greyhawk supplement The Scarlet Brotherhood has an entire section devoted to magical breeding for specific traits (they call their created races 'bredthralls', IIRC).
I have some stuff I want to discuss about Elves being a very special case; I touched upon it in my Elven Netbook contributions, but I'm not sure if any of it got edited out. As much as I hate to admit it, Elves are an elegant race (from a biological perspective). The gods or evolution - whichever theory you prefer - seems to have made certain 'concessions' in regards to elven physiology, because of their extremely long lifespans.
I am tired now (its 4AM here), and I need a clear head to get into this, and I have already gone on too long in this post. More tomorrow. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Mar 2011 18:11:34 |
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Elestar
Acolyte
Hungary
27 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 11:01:07
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That is right. Drow seem to be a result of some fracturing or evolutionary forking indeed, were that evolution maybe only spiritual in nature. Still I would say that Araushnee shaped the drow as did her new people give her a reason to be as she became. In this case of kind-of-secondary creation the raw material were Corellon's elves. Also if I am correct Lolth only later became the proprer goddess of the drow, she was a tanar'ri prior to that, and of course an elven minor power at the start, whith no people of her own.
Drow are said to be the least long lived elven species, right?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 11:56:31
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Ah, weren't the drow cursed/formed into what they are by Corellon? Then shaped some more by Lolth? Those seem like pretty definitive acts of divine creation to me. Natural selection and evolution wouldn't be involved at all (beyond weeding out the slow, weak, and stupid members of the drow race over many generations).
I might even go so far as to suggest that - for whatever magical/divine reasons - elves might be almost entirely immune to evolution. Elves and each of the elven subraces are shaped as they are by their gods and resist being reshaped by any force other than their gods; the same basic elven races are found scattered across many worlds and still almost exactly as they have been for untold generations. Indeed, their unchanging immortal nature might be the very reason that their race has dwindled before the onslaught of versatile humans. Elves are creatures of perfect beauty, built to last, not built to adapt. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Mar 2011 12:40:57 |
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Elestar
Acolyte
Hungary
27 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 12:10:44
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Corellon most likely needed some reason to do so, I guess, not just picking a random elven subspecies to be cursed on a whim. I think Araushnee and her chosen people already were engaged in a dance of corruption before Corellon chastised them by turning the drow as a negative-image of his original elves. And perhaps Labelas had his share in cutting off some of their longevity as a bonus penalty.
Otherwise I can agree on your concept on a divine adaptation-ban for elves. They have integrated images in the arcane fabric, or whatever eternal substance to which they take accord. Thats why every Prime world has the same elven subspecies, regardless of how we name them, and that's why subspecies breed true with one another.
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Edited by - Elestar on 19 Mar 2011 12:19:22 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 12:40:49
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| Why are some people still applying evolution bs to the realms? XC |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 13:46:08
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| Trad, just a friendly Mod warning. Please try to keep your personal perspectives on the issue of real-world evolution, out of these discussions. Not only do they have little bearing on the actual topic, but they make it increasingly more likely that this will quickly degenerate into arguments between those who believe in evolution, and those who don't. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 19 Mar 2011 13:46:45 |
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why do elves live so long?
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