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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 04:00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I don't see the loss of the Shadow Weave as a big blow to Shar. For one, it's not a part of her, it's not one of her portfolio's. She might take a hit from those wizards etc who converted to Shar to use the Shadow Weave suddenly going nuts, but I can't see it being a large hit. Though, it could always be enough to count as this 'Coming Weakness of Shar'.
Gonna agree w/ Uzzy here. But anyway, it states in Magic of Faerun, pg. 10, that "If Mystra were to die and the Weave collapse, the Shadow Weave would persist."
Kinda an accurate prediction, given what we know now. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 05:48:17
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I don't see the loss of the Shadow Weave as a big blow to Shar. For one, it's not a part of her, it's not one of her portfolio's. She might take a hit from those wizards etc who converted to Shar to use the Shadow Weave suddenly going nuts, but I can't see it being a large hit. Though, it could always be enough to count as this 'Coming Weakness of Shar'.
Gonna agree w/ Uzzy here. But anyway, it states in Magic of Faerun, pg. 10, that "If Mystra were to die and the Weave collapse, the Shadow Weave would persist."
Kinda an accurate prediction, given what we know now.
I consider that to be erroneous info. It simply does not make sense, and it contradicts what Ed said.
Besides, it's pretty safe to assume it's going to be gone, since it's apparently one of the "problems" the designers are wanting to correct with the infliction of 4E upon the Realms. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 05:49:49
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| I know that is what was said, but Ed has elaborated that if the Shadow Weave is hung on the "negative spaces" of the Weave, it can't really exist without that superstructure. Also, Rich has said that the Shadow Weave will be going away in 4th edition, and cited it as an idea that never worked out the way the designers wanted it too. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 06:00:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I don't see the loss of the Shadow Weave as a big blow to Shar. For one, it's not a part of her, it's not one of her portfolio's. She might take a hit from those wizards etc who converted to Shar to use the Shadow Weave suddenly going nuts, but I can't see it being a large hit. Though, it could always be enough to count as this 'Coming Weakness of Shar'.
Gonna agree w/ Uzzy here. But anyway, it states in Magic of Faerun, pg. 10, that "If Mystra were to die and the Weave collapse, the Shadow Weave would persist."
Kinda an accurate prediction, given what we know now.
I consider that to be erroneous info. It simply does not make sense, and it contradicts what Ed said.
Besides, it's pretty safe to assume it's going to be gone, since it's apparently one of the "problems" the designers are wanting to correct with the infliction of 4E upon the Realms.
Plus newer info, namely the Shadowdale module, says differently. So, MoF is dated. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 06:16:54
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Indeed. It's specifically noted on pg. 12:- "The Rite of Unwinding is a Sharran ritual intended to suppress the Weave in an ever-expanding region, slowly creating a dead magic zone to suppress the Weave without actually destroying it (which would also cause the Shadow Weave in the area to collapse.)"
Plus, the bit from Ed [Mar. '06]:-
"The concept of darkfire or shadowfire is attractive, but to champion it requires a misunderstanding of what the Shadow Weave really is. It’s NOT (despite the propaganda betimes put out by the clergy of Shar) a separate (and equal) system of magic to the Weave; rather, it exists as an echo of the Weave, matching and surpassing the Weave only when Shar personally feeds it with her divine power (and, being an essentially a selfish, ruthless entity, such feedings will be rare acts indeed; she doesn’t CARE what happens to mortal worshippers).
Spellfire is the raw energy of magic, a taste of the way magic was before there was a Weave, restricted (in some small ways) by the Weave (that is, by the will of Mystra). The Shadow Weave works by drawing on this same energy, so there is no shadowfire: there is only spellfire. Shar as a divine power could give certain of her mortal followers a “darkfire” analagous to the silver fire of Mystra (sharing her divine power, in other words), IF she desired to.
She could not give the Shadow Weave users spellfire, because it, by its very nature, consumes and rends shadow weave-magic far more swiftly and more widely than it does Weave-based spells.
To those who argue that Shar could kill Mystra or destroy the Weave: those two things are the same, as Mystra IS the Weave. No mortal yet knows what would then happen, but it should be obvious that as an echo of the Weave, the Shadow Weave itself would also be destroyed (or would collapse).
Remember, the Weave isn’t the energies of magic. The Weave is magic: that is, a system of harnessing those energies by means of an existing body of spells.
The new TOME OF MAGIC presents three other “systems” of harnessing energies (“magical forces,” most sages would call them). One of those systems is Shadow Magic, and it provides magic that followers of Shar could well turn to, either if the Weave is gone, OR if a DM wants to postulate that Shadow Weave users can tap into this system. Unfortunately, one of the things that Shadow Magic as presented in that tome doesn’t provide users is “shadowfire” or darkfire as it’s been discussed in this thread thus far.
Various TSR and WotC designers and fiction writers and I have discussed these matters many times over the years, to hammer out agreement on the specifics of what Mystra can and can’t do, what Shar can and can’t do, and what the Weave and the Shadow Weave can and can’t do. Please remember two things: divine situations in the Realms aren’t static; there will inevitably be “developments” in the struggle between Shar and Mystra. And as the creator of Shar, Mystra, AND the Realms, I’m in a position to see things more clearly than anyone else."
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 15:32:17
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| Ah, well I stand corrected. I had not read the Shadowdale adventure, as I am currently a player in Walkerninja's running of the above said module. Thanks for the update. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 15:32:55
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I think it's safe to say that one of the pitfalls of the Shadow Weave, as a concept, is how confusing the mechanics of it are.  I accept Ed's explanation of it, but there are so many explanations floating around at this point that arguing about what the truth is seems to be futile (in my experience, anyway, on the WotC boards). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 16:43:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
[I personally can't work with other that well, so I would have shown my cards too early, dissing all 4E ideas, and would not have received the 50,000 words invite as a result (I'm like a pretty good dwarf smith who can't accept change that well, let alone let anyone trample my own work!    ) All I can say is Ed is a much, much greater man than I am.
I'm like you PDK, I have a horrible problem working with others, and I gotta give Ed the respect for being able to humble himself here and try to continue the fight. In that situation, I would have been horribly outflanked and gutted to die on the field of battle over the way some of these changes have happened. I can understand the end result they want from a technical perspective, but the Lorist in me screams.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2008 : 08:23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
[I personally can't work with other that well, so I would have shown my cards too early, dissing all 4E ideas, and would not have received the 50,000 words invite as a result (I'm like a pretty good dwarf smith who can't accept change that well, let alone let anyone trample my own work! ) All I can say is Ed is a much, much greater man than I am.
I'm like you PDK, I have a horrible problem working with others, and I gotta give Ed the respect for being able to humble himself here and try to continue the fight. In that situation, I would have been horribly outflanked and gutted to die on the field of battle over the way some of these changes have happened. I can understand the end result they want from a technical perspective, but the Lorist in me screams.
Phillip aka Sleyvas
I feel like writing a heavy metal song going like this, and with the following tempo: da-da-da__DA__DA__DAAA! (i.e. "The-Lo-rist__in__Me__Screams!" etc.)
"The Lorist in Me Screams!
Despoiled of all his Dreams!
He types into the Night!
A Search for what is RIIIIGHT!!!
Half-alive in the Day!
Pissing his life Away!
He longs for a !KIN__DRED!
To ignite the UNDEAD!!!
Shackles of Accounting!
Deny your Marketing!
Visionaries are Gone!
To a land without SUN!
UN-FASHIONABLE IS PASSION!
BETTER LOOK FOR A REASON!
IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE THIS!!!!
READY LIPS FOR ARSE TO KISSSSSS!!!!
['xxx_yyy! indicates group/band shouting the two syllables all simultaneously, in addition to the lead vocals, for an industrialistic, hammerblow effect... very Moradin if I say so...  ]
 Huh... I "TOLD" you it was heavy metal...
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Wyvernspur
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 23:24:38
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I don't know if this has been said but I think I just might bring it up in this discussion.
Shar and Selune are the quintisential God and Devil figures in the Creation of Abeir-Toril Myth. However suddenly we find in the books that Mystra is doing all the work saving the world and being all good and everything. Even after the Crucible of Cyric the Mad she still edges towards good and happy things. Especially as Shar tries to attack her with Shadow Magic.
From the birth of Mystryl you'll remember that she was a part of Selune that was seperated to form the Goddess of Magic. This presents a problem as Selune seems to be inheritly good so in natural conection Mystryl is also good. Mystryl though played a better role of neutral allowing Nethril to glut themselves on magic until she sacrificed her self to save magic. Selfless act not it was a self preservin act as she existed for magic. Shar though exists for many other things beside magic and through out the works on the Realms seems to have been playing a quite game of chess moving even the other gods as pawns against her foes.
Mystra the reencarnation of Mystryl(who was also the Goddess of Time? and could see these things coming) Was an even more Good deity than before having learned from here neutral ways she made sure that men could never again weild enough power to hurt themselves that badly or in otherwords steal her immortality again. Anyway Mystra goes on a while having afairs with Archmages and such(seven sisters from seven different daddies) Yet once again falls gets killed turing the ToT but having that forsight manages to bring her self back to life through Midnight. Who is even more to the side of Good than before becasue she hates Cyric for being the Bastard that he is.
Me while Selune.....does nothing. I mean sure she has her clerics dancing around in moonlite groves. I seem to remember in the book Wyvernspur that there was a pretty cool Werebear cleric but otherwise Selune seems to take the back burner to Mystra and her magic. I would guess because magic is such a potent force in the realms. I'm not even quite sure how the Red Wizards of Thay survived so long with such a Palidinesque Goddess in control of Magic.
Okay what I am getting at is Mystra's Death despite the stupidity of the manner of the death(which she should have seen coming) is an opportunity for Selune to step back up and take the reigns again as the Champion Goddess of Good against Shar.
Okay I just said a lot there and realize that it may have been already said. I am sorry to see Mystra go but in the sake of making Selune better I'm okay with it.(Technically you must remember that Faerunian Deities never die they just come back in later Novels to bother people in Wesgate. Or to take over Zhentil Keep) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 23:41:41
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| When 5th edition comes out, Mystra will be back. See, as long as there's magic in Faerun, she can be reborn from it's essence. Watch. We've heard nothing of a new god of magic for the Realms, and if it's not Elminster, Azuth, or Corellon.. something tells me there will be a void just waiting to be filled. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 00:32:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
I don't know if this has been said but I think I just might bring it up in this discussion.
Shar and Selune are the quintisential God and Devil figures in the Creation of Abeir-Toril Myth. However suddenly we find in the books that Mystra is doing all the work saving the world and being all good and everything. Even after the Crucible of Cyric the Mad she still edges towards good and happy things. Especially as Shar tries to attack her with Shadow Magic.
From the birth of Mystryl you'll remember that she was a part of Selune that was seperated to form the Goddess of Magic. This presents a problem as Selune seems to be inheritly good so in natural conection Mystryl is also good. Mystryl though played a better role of neutral allowing Nethril to glut themselves on magic until she sacrificed her self to save magic. Selfless act not it was a self preservin act as she existed for magic. Shar though exists for many other things beside magic and through out the works on the Realms seems to have been playing a quite game of chess moving even the other gods as pawns against her foes.
Mystra the reencarnation of Mystryl(who was also the Goddess of Time? and could see these things coming) Was an even more Good deity than before having learned from here neutral ways she made sure that men could never again weild enough power to hurt themselves that badly or in otherwords steal her immortality again. Anyway Mystra goes on a while having afairs with Archmages and such(seven sisters from seven different daddies) Yet once again falls gets killed turing the ToT but having that forsight manages to bring her self back to life through Midnight. Who is even more to the side of Good than before becasue she hates Cyric for being the Bastard that he is.
Me while Selune.....does nothing. I mean sure she has her clerics dancing around in moonlite groves. I seem to remember in the book Wyvernspur that there was a pretty cool Werebear cleric but otherwise Selune seems to take the back burner to Mystra and her magic. I would guess because magic is such a potent force in the realms. I'm not even quite sure how the Red Wizards of Thay survived so long with such a Palidinesque Goddess in control of Magic.
Okay what I am getting at is Mystra's Death despite the stupidity of the manner of the death(which she should have seen coming) is an opportunity for Selune to step back up and take the reigns again as the Champion Goddess of Good against Shar.
Okay I just said a lot there and realize that it may have been already said. I am sorry to see Mystra go but in the sake of making Selune better I'm okay with it.(Technically you must remember that Faerunian Deities never die they just come back in later Novels to bother people in Wesgate. Or to take over Zhentil Keep)
Mystryl was also born from Shar's essence, as well. The piece of herself that she chucked at Shar ripped into Shar, and pulled away a part of her, as well. So Mystryl was born from both deities, not just one.
Mystryl was neutral, though she leaned toward good. It's not the same thing as being good-aligned.
The father of the Seven Sisters was neither an archmage, nor multiple people. The all share the same father, Dornal Silverhand, who is not a spellcaster at all.
And again... The whole thing about Mystra 2.0 favoring good spellcasters only happened in one novel. One. It was never expressed in game terms, so it impact was not all that large. And she was slapped down for doing it. I really, really wish people would get over that -- or at least remember what happened in the rest of the novel, rather than focusing on that one part.
Selûne can't do too much in regard to arcane spellcasters -- it's not her territory. Until that changes, Selûne is not going to have anything to do with magic. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 00:34:14
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
When 5th edition comes out, Mystra will be back. See, as long as there's magic in Faerun, she can be reborn from it's essence. Watch. We've heard nothing of a new god of magic for the Realms, and if it's not Elminster, Azuth, or Corellon.. something tells me there will be a void just waiting to be filled.
We've not heard about a new god of magic because the designers have spent too much time listening to the nay-sayers, and decided to cave in to those non-Realms fans. It has been specifically stated that there will be no replacement for Mystra.
I'll grant that things may change in 5E, but that's a long way away. We've got to get thru D&D Extreme, first.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 00:48:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]
And again... The whole thing about Mystra 2.0 favoring good spellcasters only happened in one novel. One. It was never expressed in game terms, so it impact was not all that large. And she was slapped down for doing it. I really, really wish people would get over that -- or at least remember what happened in the rest of the novel, rather than focusing on that one part.
Yeah, I am surprised how people gloss that one over as it stuck out of that book like a sore thubm when I read it.
Midnight/Mystra and Kelemvor both took their godhoods to the goody goody in that one instance and then both did a 180 and were in a way too harsh in their efforts to compensate if I remember correctly. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 01:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Yeah, I am surprised how people gloss that one over as it stuck out of that book like a sore thubm when I read it.
Like I said, the people who hate Mystra need something to cling to. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aelryn
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2008 : 05:17:29
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I've never cared overmuch that the most recent incarnation of Mystra was good- in my opinion, that was balanced out rather well by the shadow weave being dominated by Shar, who was inherently evil. If one side of magic (good) was getting too uppity in service to Mystra, well, there the Sharrans were to balance it out.
In a campaign I participated in through the medium of Neverwinter Nights (*waves briefly to his fellow Evereskan Xandos*) something my mage was striving for was a unification of the two weaves through a Gestalt of casters from each of the said weaves. It was mentioned in F&P that Mystra was looking to subsume the Shadow Weave (and possibly Shar with it, I believe.) I looked at this as a way to facilitate that in our campaign and thus take the focus of events away from an epic conflict between two predominant magical powers and fuse them into a single more neutral, whimsical being. (Mystra's neutrality would give way to Chaos, and their good and evil would blend to neutral, leaving a Chaotic Neutral force governing magic, similar to Tyche governing luck before she split into Tymora and Beshaba.)
The merging of the weave with its own darker "echo" likely would've as a repercussion weakened magic overall as well, at least in my opinion, since they were in several ways opposites despite being related and would have had somewhat of a neutralizing effect on each other (in my own opinion.)
The above proposal seems like a reasonable arc to me, and I'm a bit perplexed with the current direction the Realms is heading in- I mean, forgive me for saying so, because I love the Lore of the Realms as it is, but creating cataclysmic, world-altering events has been done through Mystra's death twice already. Would it really have been that hard for them to reach a little bit deeper into their creativity well and make these changes with information and lore already established rather than running a trifecta of deicide with regards to magic? |
"Even when our eyes are closed, there's a whole world out there, that lives outside ourselves and our dreams." |
Edited by - Aelryn on 17 Jan 2008 05:31:24 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2008 : 05:46:01
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No Aelryn because they changes are about getting rid of that lore. 3E Realms supplements are filled with mistakes and errors that authors made and editors didn't correct. From the most blatantly obvious to the most obscure of TSR products. It's easier to destroy it all (spell plague) and jump forward in time (104 years) to erase and kill off anything and everything that would require game designers and novel authors alike to read about before publishing.
However, since they can't even manage Silver Marches and Thousand Orcs right and further display their inability to update regions in supplements as a novel trilogy/series is taking place in given region (Underdark and Moonsea), I can't imagine how they think they can manage any better once 4E Realms is established.
But then again none of the 3E trilogies end until 2009 anyway, so they've got 2-3 years before their too deep in their own material that it's time for the next cataclysmic event to herald in 5E... you know, since they've stated there won't be a 4.5. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2008 : 08:58:25
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| Well, many of the same designers and authors that have worked on the 3ed. may be working in the next edition also; if one liked their work in the 3ed. one might as well give them a chance in the new one, how they handle the ties to the classic Realms is still to be seen. |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2008 : 23:21:13
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On Shar, Mystra, and Arcane Magic in the Realms post-1385 DR (4e)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
((Warning, this rant may wax Biblical, but follow the metaphors.))
Shar is the Goddess of Night, Secrets, and Bitterly Nursed Grudges against Harms and Slights (or Jealous Zeal). She's the embodiment of at least four of the seven deadly sins: pride, greed, envy, and wrath. Since the dawn of time and creation, she and her sister Selune have been embroiled in a sibling rivalry that echoes that of Caine and Abel. One, bright and beautiful, full of hope, and the other, envious of the other without appreciation of their own dark grace. Unfortunately, Shar's fate is likely to follow Caine's course, and the course of all those who allow their bitter vendettas to consume them.
Shar's murder of Mystra in Dweomerheart with Cyric will expose her to direct harm as her own construct (the shadow weave) collapses with the weave, taking whatever part of her power was imbued in maintaining it. This will undoubtedly further weaken the already snubbed goddess, whether she recognizes it or not in her blinding hubris and single-minded hatred of Selune. Shar has seen Mystra (and her allies and followers) as another reason for her failure to defeat her sister; an obstacle to be overcome. Power that was taken from her by her sister which she has been trying to recover.
With Mystra's death, which has been due for some time, several things happen. First, Selune wins. Whether directly as a result of the fact that Cyric is a coward, and would sell out the soul of his long-dead mortal mother to save his Godhood, or because Shar will try to repeat the murderous trend in Selune's home and be caught unprepared - it doesn't matter. Shar will succumb to her own dark ambitions. I suspect either Hoar or Tyr will do her in.
Second, with Mystra's death and the birth of blue fire, we come full-cycle in two spheres: the human use of magic and the fall of the Chosen. A lot of people won't like my saying this, but the Chosen are an instititution. Any institution, given sufficient time and insufficient change, becomes as cancerous cells in a body - eventually causing more harm than good, regardless of their best intentions.
The Blackstaff recently gave up his life in fruition of his meddling prophecy and that of his diety, returning an ancient city to the world and undoing the damage of the past. A fitting end, and one which still awaits the other Chosen. The Chosen are like the sheppherds of magic, spreading it's use as their mandate, and correcting it where casters have gone awry, but eventually the flock grows capable of defending itself and making it's own decisions. With the spellplague, Thay will collapse and Aglarond will no longer need the Simbul's protection. Silverymoon's wards will fail, but so will the arcane protections keeping Obould invulnerable.
The weave has been a conduit through which man, a non-magical race, has come to understand, access, and master magic. Magic has suffused daily life for much of the Realms, or been notable enough at least to be observed as a part of people's experiences. With enough generations of exposure to magic, eventually the 'safety blanket' of the weave becomes unnecessary, and those attuned to the pulse of raw magic begin to understand its influences as the Elves always have. The Elves, after all, came to Abeir-Toril from another planet, on Spelljamming vessels and through gates, purportedly from worlds where Mystra had no presence, and thus therefore neither did the weave.
This evolutionary progress of man, to join the other magical races, will complement the 4e understanding that magic is available to all races, and no longer necessitate the presence of a watchdog goddess. It also removes the instability and the imbalance of power from the equation. Mystra had the ability, hypothetically, to deny even another god arcane power. Now, this is no longer the case. I believe this is a good move.
It also opens the door for so many new developments in the Realms, and while I don't entirely agree with some of the direction I see the game (and the Realms) taking, nor do I agree with some of the bitching that's been going on about it. Please understand that I mean this as respectfully as I possibly can. We will see what will be, and if we do not like it, we will reserve the right to throw out what we won't use. However, if we push our little non-confidence Gambit, we risk losing the 'TOY' that WotC bought with their dollars altogether, and that's unacceptable in my mind.
So, I... for one... am waiting to see what happens. This is an exciting time. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2008 : 00:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
With the spellplague, Thay will collapse and Aglarond will no longer need the Simbul's protection.
Well, according to the recent article in the online Dragon, Thay doesn't collapse, and Szass Tam, at least, is still around. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 Jan 2008 00:49:53 |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2008 : 01:08:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
With the spellplague, Thay will collapse and Aglarond will no longer need the Simbul's protection.
Well, according to the recent article in the online Dragon, Thay doesn't collapse, and Szass Tam, at least, is still around.
Chances are, however, that they will be operating at a diminished capacity for a while. Regardless, there will be a noticeable effect on the magocracy, and others. |
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Toedoe
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2008 : 17:04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Cyric is a coward, and would sell out the soul of his long-dead mortal mother to save his Godhood.
You say that like it's a bad thing. I don't know of one evil God that wouldn't. |
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daebereth
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 08:21:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yup, I said "failure".
Inspired by the Book of the Black and their own ability to see the future, the Dark Diviners of Windsong Tower deduced a coming weakness of Shar and penned their observations in a second tome, the Leaves of One Night.
Shar immediately cursed the Diviners’ writings, and shortly thereafter, thieves in the employ of the Church of Shar stole the Diviners’ copy of the Book of the Black, as well as the only copy of the Leaves of One Night.
With this string of possibly coincidental facts and suppositions, it is possible that the whole mess is going to backfire in Shar's face. It could cause her a major loss of power -- or it could be something as extreme as seeing Shar fall and be replaced.
[/quote]
It also says that Shar's moment of weakness will lead to victory, at least in Mistress of the Night (and possibly the Twilight Wars). There was also something about Shar's death being the death of all things, but I can't remember which book (novel, sourcebook or what have you) that was in. Sharran lies, perhaps, but so few know about the Leaves of One Night to actually be able to say what is written in it. |
Semper Solivagus |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 21:18:24
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daebereth, it is from the Twilight War series. In fact, I think that possibly the third book of that series is going to answer our questions concerning Shar and pave the way that will end up with Mystra's murder.
I wonder if there's going to be a book on that...? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 02:35:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
daebereth, it is from the Twilight War series. In fact, I think that possibly the third book of that series is going to answer our questions concerning Shar and pave the way that will end up with Mystra's murder.
I wonder if there's going to be a book on that...?
The designers have expressed a definite lack of desire to explore the key Spellplague events in novels. Of course, never say never. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 05:30:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
daebereth, it is from the Twilight War series. In fact, I think that possibly the third book of that series is going to answer our questions concerning Shar and pave the way that will end up with Mystra's murder.
I wonder if there's going to be a book on that...?
The designers have expressed a definite lack of desire to explore the key Spellplague events in novels. Of course, never say never.
Just like they've ignored the many people who have expressed a desire to read about Xvim's fakeout Bane's rebirth. You know, we're just the people spending the money that pays their paychecks, why should they listen to us? Especially when they can listen to people that have never spent a cent on Realms material...  |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 07:48:20
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Wooly, nicely done with the sarcasm. Nicely done. Lol.
Rinonalyrna, I was hoping that WotC would do something like they did with ToT. I guess they might reveal the events of Spellplague and such in the 4E FR manual.
After all, this is a way for them to get people to spend like $50 on one guidebook instead of $30 for a 3 book trilogy that probably will detail the event much better than a paragraph and a half in a manual. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 15:59:50
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Rinonalyrna, I was hoping that WotC would do something like they did with ToT. I guess they might reveal the events of Spellplague and such in the 4E FR manual.
Yeah, what she was referencing is that I asked Rich Baker if they had any plans for doing a ToT trilogy on the WotC boards (hopefully better written than the ToT, IMO), and he point blank said no, but that we would see the effects of it in some of the upcoming novels (whatever the hell that means  ). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 19 Feb 2008 16:00:29 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 17:16:06
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It probably means that the new Rich Baker series is going to hint at some of the stuff from the past.
Most likely means that we're going to have to buy the next 10 post-Spellplague series of books to piece together ourselves what happened. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 17:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
It probably means that the new Rich Baker series is going to hint at some of the stuff from the past.
I suspect the new Thay trilogy will get "hit" by the Spellplague, as well. The new Empyrean trilogy also seems likely to incorporate planar shakeups. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Spellplague: Shar's failure?
