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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 21:41:14
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| Thay trilogy? Maybe... that may be a reason why Szass Tam is so intent on ruling Thay. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 00:29:50
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Thay trilogy? Maybe... that may be a reason why Szass Tam is so intent on ruling Thay.
The Haunted Lands trilogy by Richard Lee Byers. Only one novel is out so far, though the next one is due out in March. There is also a short story that ties in with the series in Realms of War. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 02:56:57
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Ya, I have the first book. It's not bad, just kind of surprised so many epic and important characters of Thay being killed off in the first book. Of course, considering how the Spellplague is probably going to kill them all it really doesn't matter how much you screw around, I guess.
Sorry on my poorly phrased post above. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 18:40:07
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Ya, I have the first book. It's not bad, just kind of surprised so many epic and important characters of Thay being killed off in the first book.
Indeed. I'm reading and enjoying those stories (and many other more recent novels) just as stories--I don't care that they are "canon" and don't plan to incorporate the major events from the novels into my Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 05:19:57
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To me, I sort of think it's like a ploy for readers to spend even more money.
I'm pretty sure WotC decided on 4E and the Spellplague storyline a long time ago, so I think for them to continue having novels published this close to the release date of the 4E manual is kind of stupid.
In fact, I'm guessing some of the novels in the current series won't even be published until after 4E is out. All this is going to do is add more discrepancies and errors in terms of the storyline later on.
However, I do agree with you on enjoying the stories. But this to me is like buying your favourite basketball player's jersey only to find out he's being traded to another team the next day. You still like the guy, but then you kinda think you wasted money buying the jersey. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 16:25:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
To me, I sort of think it's like a ploy for readers to spend even more money.
I'm pretty sure WotC decided on 4E and the Spellplague storyline a long time ago, so I think for them to continue having novels published this close to the release date of the 4E manual is kind of stupid.
Well, if the novels sell well (and why would they put so many out if they weren't selling?) then it's a ploy that works.
quote:
In fact, I'm guessing some of the novels in the current series won't even be published until after 4E is out. All this is going to do is add more discrepancies and errors in terms of the storyline later on.
Maybe. But yes, it is pretty likely that some of the current series (Thay, Empyrean) will to be "transitional". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Feb 2008 16:25:54 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 19:02:28
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We already got one Transitions series. Ok, ok, ok, I'm tired... will stay quiet for ...well...tonight  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 22:36:29
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Well, if the Thay series is a transitional series, I think we'll know what's going to happen already.
By book 3, everyone is going to prepare a huge army to take on Szass Tam and his undead. Then out of nowhere, the Spellplague occurs and causes mountains to rise and destroys everyone. Nobody wins! Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 14:55:58
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| Just a note that stuck with me a long time ago. Someone had mentioned that Ed really hadn't had a being like Mystra in his original realms. Instead Lurue had had a lot more interaction with magic, but it was a more whimsical nature since Lurue is a unicorn. He'd gotten the idea from the world (never read the novels) in which the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe was based. I really like this idea, and since Lurue should be around in 4e, I think it would be interesting if her followers are going about trying to clear the plaguelands (much as how Mystra's followers were trying to clear wild magic areas) and heal the spell-changed creatures therein. Also, with the land itself "infected" with this messed up magic, could it have an effect on Chauntea? I know somewhere they said they don't like the idea of a deity of agriculture. I don't feel that they should do this, but they could use this as the perfect opportunity to have Chauntea "give up herself to save the land", passing on her portfolios to Silvanus and Miellikki. Might Silvanus and Miellikki have some reason to work with Lurue to heal the land. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 21:39:19
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I know somewhere they said they don't like the idea of a deity of agriculture.
The impression I got from Worlds and Monsters wasn't so much the designers don't like deities of agriculture, per se, but rather they don't see the usefulness, game-wise, of deities that have little to no appeal for adventurers.
That doesn't mean, however, that there won't be any gods of, say, agriculture, rather it seems like it will mean that said gods will have a broader appeal. For example, the 4E version of Pelor (IIRC) will have the portfolio of agriculture in addition to his older, more adventurer-friendly portfolios like "light" and "healing". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Feb 2008 21:39:46 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 16:30:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The impression I got from Worlds and Monsters wasn't so much the designers don't like deities of agriculture, per se, but rather they don't see the usefulness, game-wise, of deities that have little to no appeal for adventurers.
I think that is in large part the problem that the 4e FR Designers when trying to discover a theme for the Forgotten Realms, they seem to have forgotten that the Forgotten Realms is filled with more than just adventurers. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 17:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I think that is in large part the problem that the 4e FR Designers when trying to discover a theme for the Forgotten Realms, they seem to have forgotten that the Forgotten Realms is filled with more than just adventurers.
Yep, though to be fair I'm not sure if the gaming populous (ie. the majority that votes with the wallet) likes a game with that much "clutter"
I've heard a lot about the crowd of gamers who just like to run about and swing their swords. They may want to deal with a few folks here and there but mainly they want their bad guys and they want to take on the bad guys. And there was certainly a time when I was more interested in killing and plundering than what kept the town the adventurers are staying in economically viable.
However, as I've gotten older I've gotten more and more fond of what I like to call "organically grown" adventures. Not picking out encounters, but picking out creatures to be in a region, then thinking about how those creatures interact and what drives particular creatures. Then I can introduce events to the players that make sense and, hopefully, that the players can see and possibly even predict to some extent or maybe even thwart in a manner other than killing and plundering.
I'm not really sure where I'm goin with this one anymore, so I think I'll stop. ;) |
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Jocepi
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 05:34:35
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| This may have already been answered but if Mystra is truly dead what happens to her chosen? Surely they would crumble to dust as the power that sustains their immortality is gone. |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 07:00:39
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Well, now this is just speculation not any hard fact, you could logically go along the lines that Elminster (and The Simbul) is still alive so it is feasible in some sense Mystra survived just as the many dead gods (such as Bane) survived. Perhaps someday she will be resurrected or reborn in some fashion. Then again as a selfless act she may have just used what little of her power left before her death to make sure some of the Chosen survived her death, at least for a short while. One goddess's last attempt to give her most faithful a normal life before dying.
Then again how can you kill off the most iconic character in the Realms and expect it to be as such. You could just pretty much make up your own conclusions from what I have skimmed on 4th edition so it really just is up to your imagination can conjure up. Or wait for novels to be released to explain it - if they ever do. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 07:04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Jocepi
This may have already been answered but if Mystra is truly dead what happens to her chosen? Surely they would crumble to dust as the power that sustains their immortality is gone.
Some are still around, though we really don't know too much about what their capabilities now are. |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 08:47:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Jocepi
This may have already been answered but if Mystra is truly dead what happens to her chosen? Surely they would crumble to dust as the power that sustains their immortality is gone.
Elminster "..retains his immortality and considerable arcane power". The operative word here is "retains". Elminster became a Chosen of Mystra very early in his life, and at no point prior to his ascension would he have had any need or inclination to utilize longevity magic. Thus the immortality he enjoys is an extension of that he possessed before. While the same text states he is diminished due to a "lapse" in all abilities related to being Mystra's Chosen, this could simply be in reference to the features and powers that Chosen now have in 4E via the Epic Destiny of the same name (i.e. combat powers and features).
The Simbul survived Mystra's death and continued to rule Aglarond for another fifty years after the Spellplague. In addition to still being referred to as a powerful mage, she presumably retains mastery of the pure magic of the Silver Fire, since she taught her apprentices--the Simbarchs--how to wield it.
Laeral wrote her memoirs, Lifelong with Regrets, in 1391 DR--six years after Mystra's Death.
Even in the absence of the above lore, many people in numerous (other) message boards often assert the conclusion that Mystra's Chosen would suddenly disintegrate if she died (Time of Troubles?), or that divine servants and offspring are all subject to a standardized rule stipulating the loss of all benefits upon expiration of said deity. I recall the Children of Bhaal possessing many powers despite the death of their divine father. I also recall NPC priests of Karsus in 2E, clerics of Fallen deities in 3E, and so on.
In 3E Chosen of Mystra gained immunity to aging. Under most circumstances when you have immunity to something do to an effect, and later lose that immunity if that effect ceases, you do not retroactively suffer the consequences of all previous exposure to that effect. Example: Volo is wearing a periapt of proof against poison, and then is poisoned while wearing it--to no effect. If he removes the periapt the next day he will not abruptly die from poisoning.
In 4E terminology we have an actual classification of immortal creatures, which functions as an origin keyword for deities, angels, devils, and beings with strong ties to the Gods. They do not age and cannot die of natural causes.
Elminster carried the bulk of Mystra's power during the Time of Troubles, was once her lover, and carried the Silver Fire longer than any of the other Chosen. Thus it is more than reasonable to conclude that the exposure to divine power would have had an residual effect on him, which through a 4E lens could mean he became an immortal creature.
The Seven Sisters were born of a sorceress willingly possessed by Mystra (which made Mystra and Elue a singular divine being during conception and birth). Many of the Seven Sisters did not actually become Chosen until many decades or centuries later into their lives, and in the case of the Simbul we have lore describing her discovering her inability to age centuries before she actually became a Chosen. Thus it can be assumed they have an innate immortality due to their unusual origins. As for Alustriel passing away, it can either be a common myth (it is the knowledge gained by only a DC 15 check) or simply be a case of Mystra giving her daughters a choice regarding their final fate, like the half-even brothers Elrond and Elros of Tolkien's Middle Earth (where one chose a mortal life, the other chose immortality). |
Edited by - The Simbul on 22 Aug 2009 09:28:06 |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 09:15:04
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I would like to note that my previous and lengthy reply was in no way intended to pick on you Jocepi.
Rather it is a common assumption/assertion I've encountered several times on other message boards, and over time I have mentally drafted my response. I simply have not yet had the time to go back and reply to posts I read long before, and you simply happened to be the most recent person to pose a question along the same lines. |
Edited by - The Simbul on 22 Aug 2009 09:17:29 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 10:56:58
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| Well said Simbul. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Spellplague: Shar's failure?
