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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 21:04:33
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With all of the concern over Wizars and how they are (allegedly) going to mangle the FR, I want to know: will the D20 system and the OGL survive? If so, bug*er Wizards -- I'll just buy my game stuff from White Wolf, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Chaosium, et al.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 21:38:30
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| I'm inclined to think it will. It was a brilliant marketing maneuver for WotC to have done that in the first place. It expanded the base of potential gamers by providing a game system that anyone could tweak for their own setting, and since that game system was shared with D&D, it meant these new gamers could be more readily converted to D&D. |
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Ugly is the new black
Seeker
Australia
81 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 22:56:39
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I see where you're coming from, and I agree with your concern. I don't think, however, that D20 or the OGL are going anywhere anytime soon. Too many companies have invested too much time and money into them to abandon them this early. Besides, as I see it, there's still a huge market for D20 material. I'm certainly not going to buy 4E, and neither are any of my friends.
We wouldn't buy that crap if you paid us.
love,
nathan. |
As he knelt on the ground with his brothers around and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer, and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,
"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter? For all men must die, and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 23:41:49
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Well, the OGL can't be revoked, so that exists in perpetuity. You may not be able to use the d20 logo, but the OGL itself will stand from here on. This is why WOTC is actually in a way competing with their own game system. If 4th edition doesn't go over, people do have the option to fall back on OGL products, and companies can even put out their own OGL games based on 3.5 if 4th edition proves unpopular (this is why a lot of people were expending more of a 3.75 version of the game or more of a revision than a full fledged new edition, and probably why the designers are so set on telling us how bad 3.5 is now).
As far as a new OGL goes, we know that they do want to license the 4th edition system to third party publishers. They had a meeting at Gen Con with Paizo, Necromancer and several others to talk about this, and Necromancer has already said they will produce 4th edition products, but the crux of all of this is that they haven't said if 4th edition licensing will be an OGL, or a cheap but limited license cost that can be revoked, or if there will be an available SRD, etc. |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 16:58:22
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| I heard over at EN World sometime that 4e will have an OGL and some form of SRD, though it isn't clear what form it will take. The bigger question is licensing for publishers. |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 17:07:06
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| d20 is never going anywhere. the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts. there is no way Wizards can screw it up that bad |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 18:24:46
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quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 21:54:22
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| Boy Scouts are clearly prepared for anything. Including Time Travel. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 22:35:51
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...Maybe they had a copy of the Junior Woodchucks Guidebook. That book had so much other information, it surely covered time travel!
I wonder if there is a merit badge for time travel? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Oct 2007 22:39:08 |
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ddporter
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 23:39:10
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quote:
I wonder if there is a merit badge for time travel?
There will be, therefore there already is! |
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Ugly is the new black
Seeker
Australia
81 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 04:19:14
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I joined the scouts when I was a kid because I wanted to make little wooden racing cars and carry a pocket knife, but I quit about a week later when I realized I had to memorize a bunch of oaths. Although in hindsight, I probably would have stuck around had I known we'd be allowed to pretend we're wizards and slay dragons out in the woods with D20's.
But maybe not. I don't think I was into wizards when I was a kid. At the time, I can remember my big thing was pretending to be Gambit from X-Men. Although, in my defense, Gambit is a badass.
love,
nathan. |
As he knelt on the ground with his brothers around and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer, and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,
"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter? For all men must die, and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!" |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 21:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by aravine
d20 is never going anywhere. the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
If this is serious, could you provide a citation of some kind?
The roots of RPGs -- improvised theatre/ritual/storytelling and kriegspiel -- go back into prehistory. |
Edited by - Faraer on 03 Oct 2007 21:07:59 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 18:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
With all of the concern over Wizars and how they are (allegedly) going to mangle the FR, I want to know: will the D20 system and the OGL survive? If so, bug*er Wizards -- I'll just buy my game stuff from White Wolf, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Chaosium, et al.
If I understood the Green Ronin podcast with Erik Mona that was linked to at www.paizo.com, then yes on both counts. And there will also be a continuation of sorts of them into 4th edition (with a new D20 logo since the current one is apparently "tainted"). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 04 Oct 2007 18:39:25 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 00:33:15
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My thanks to those of you who have provided well-informed replies.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 05:45:39
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| For what its worth, Erik Mona has said on Paizo's boards that if 4th edition doesn't live up to Paizo's expectations, they have no problem with developing their own "3.75" edition to support their Pathfinder line. This will only be something they would consider if 4th edition really disappoints them. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
d20 is never going anywhere. the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
If this is serious, could you provide a citation of some kind?
The roots of RPGs -- improvised theatre/ritual/storytelling and kriegspiel -- go back into prehistory.
I don't have the link anymore but these boy scouts, they even drew their own map |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974.
it wasn't called Dungeons &dragons, but it had a stat boook, character sheets, the works. you didn't seriously beleive they came up with this stuff on their own, did you? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 18:02:12
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| I think I will have to have some confirmation of that one before I believe it Aravine. I have heard that said before, but I have never seen anything put forward to back it up. Until then it will be Gygax' creation. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 18:03:53
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Wow...I'm not sure what to say.
At first I was going to say perhaps the 1928 was a typo and he meant 1978 (still a mistake)...but now...
Anyway, I'm really hoping the d20 OGL stays the way it is. I had plans to publish a d20 setting of my own next year, but getting wind of 4e had me change my mind. I don't want to publish anything that will then need to be reconditioned to fit a new rules set. I have to admit that Ed Greenwood has been more of an inspiration for the world I'm creating than any "traditional" folks like Tolkien. I can't wait to publish it, but now I have a lot of reworking to do and I can't even start THAT until the new edition comes out.
So to say I like that a new edition is coming out is a two-edged blade for me: I like the idea, but it is putting a hurting on my wallet! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 19:17:28
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quote:
Originally posted by aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974.
it wasn't called Dungeons &dragons, but it had a stat boook, character sheets, the works. you didn't seriously beleive they came up with this stuff on their own, did you?
I never said they did. It's a known fact that they started by modifying the rules for Chain Mail. But it's also known that this was in the early 70's.
Lots of RPGs have stat books and character sheets. That doesn't make them D&D. And you specifically stated that D&D was being played in 1928. If a game doesn't exist, it can't be played. Being rude about it won't change that.
And, as stated by others, you really need to provide some proof before making claims like that. Nothing I've seen indicates the existence of any RPGs in 1928.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 19:28:01
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
Anyway, I'm really hoping the d20 OGL stays the way it is. I had plans to publish a d20 setting of my own next year, but getting wind of 4e had me change my mind. I don't want to publish anything that will then need to be reconditioned to fit a new rules set. I have to admit that Ed Greenwood has been more of an inspiration for the world I'm creating than any "traditional" folks like Tolkien. I can't wait to publish it, but now I have a lot of reworking to do and I can't even start THAT until the new edition comes out.
So to say I like that a new edition is coming out is a two-edged blade for me: I like the idea, but it is putting a hurting on my wallet!
I know how you feel, I had around 20 base classes that I created and was going to design a website to publish one a month for a $1 each. Then 4e was announced. Grr...I still feel that they should have waited at least another 2 years. Anyways, here is a link to what Enworld has about what WotC has said about the OGL and SRD: <http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#ogl>. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 18 Oct 2007 19:29:31 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 21:03:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974.
it wasn't called Dungeons &dragons, but it had a stat boook, character sheets, the works. you didn't seriously beleive they came up with this stuff on their own, did you?
I never said they did. It's a known fact that they started by modifying the rules for Chain Mail. But it's also known that this was in the early 70's.
Lots of RPGs have stat books and character sheets. That doesn't make them D&D. And you specifically stated that D&D was being played in 1928. If a game doesn't exist, it can't be played. Being rude about it won't change that.
And, as stated by others, you really need to provide some proof before making claims like that. Nothing I've seen indicates the existence of any RPGs in 1928.
Indeed. something can be from the same pattern of thought without being exactly the same. let me Rephrase my initial reply. the first faceimily to D&D ever recorded to my knowledge was played by boy scouts in 1928. in any case the point really isn't about what boy scouts did. the statement was used as reinforcement that D&D will not die, even if they tottally screw this up. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
Edited by - Aravine on 19 Oct 2007 17:04:06 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 21:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Indeed. something can be from the same pattern of thought without being exactly the same. let me Rephrase my initial reply. the first faceimily to D&D ever recorded to my knowledge was played by boy scouts in 1928. in any case the point really isn't about what boy scouts did. the statement was used as reinforcement that the d20 system will not die, even if they tottally screw this up.
It would still be good to have a reference cited...
And D&D and D20 are not the same thing. D&D was around long before they shifted to D20. I'm not trying to be contrarian, I'm just saying that one is not the other -- so the survivability of one does not indicate that the other will remain. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 17:05:10
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| I concede. (Therefore I have changed my post). |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 00:33:01
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
Anyway, I'm really hoping the d20 OGL stays the way it is. I had plans to publish a d20 setting of my own next year, but getting wind of 4e had me change my mind. I don't want to publish anything that will then need to be reconditioned to fit a new rules set. I have to admit that Ed Greenwood has been more of an inspiration for the world I'm creating than any "traditional" folks like Tolkien. I can't wait to publish it, but now I have a lot of reworking to do and I can't even start THAT until the new edition comes out.
So to say I like that a new edition is coming out is a two-edged blade for me: I like the idea, but it is putting a hurting on my wallet!
I know how you feel, I had around 20 base classes that I created and was going to design a website to publish one a month for a $1 each. Then 4e was announced. Grr...I still feel that they should have waited at least another 2 years. Anyways, here is a link to what Enworld has about what WotC has said about the OGL and SRD: <http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#ogl>.
That pretty much is what I had been told...glad to see it a little more concrete...but things can always change.
If for some reason it will cost me something to print my setting in 4e, then most likely I will simply go ahead with its 3.5 version and market on the "love folks have for the "old" system and hatred for this new monster that is 4e..." or some such.
Which would be funny since I'm looking forward to playing 4e, just don't want it to hurt my finances! LOL
Still a waiting game for me either way...I won't be one of the few who can work on 4e materials yet. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 00:44:12
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| I have a feeling most companies will go full fledge 4E when it comes out. Wizards has pushed back to books for a reason and I bet anything that it has to do with needing more fine tuning. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 16:39:33
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There's recent news over on ENworld, and a thread about it, with info from the WOTC brand manager saying that the OGL will still be around in 4e.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3876623#post3876623 |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 20:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There's recent news over on ENworld, and a thread about it, with info from the WOTC brand manager saying that the OGL will still be around in 4e.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3876623#post3876623
It seems to me that there is still quite a bit of uncertainty -- as in the post which said that the thread screamed "dicuss me" and the one which predicted that Wizards would let D20 "die a quiet death." Oh well, as someone else said, the (1.0a) Open Gaming License still exists. I hope that my fears will wind up as nothing more than cloud in a coffee cup.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 21:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There's recent news over on ENworld, and a thread about it, with info from the WOTC brand manager saying that the OGL will still be around in 4e.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3876623#post3876623
It seems to me that there is still quite a bit of uncertainty -- as in the post which said that the thread screamed "dicuss me" and the one which predicted that Wizards would let D20 "die a quiet death." Oh well, as someone else said, the (1.0a) Open Gaming License still exists. I hope that my fears will wind up as nothing more than cloud in a coffee cup.
Fails to see how it's uncertain. Scott, the WOTC brand manager, said clearly that the OGL will exist in 4e. How is that uncertain? |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 08 Nov 2007 21:46:33 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 23:09:30
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Ah, this is good news. I'm hoping this also means Midnight will continue into 4e. I hope it does because... well, I can't say why at the moment, but I'm hoping it's something I'll be able to share with you all very shortly.
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Will D20 and the OGL survive?
