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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 12:06:40
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My friends and I are playing a campaign with evil characters. But we can't completely agree with our DM on the definition of evil. We players want to be a group of adventurers who are close friends and trust each other with our lives, but don't care about the rest of the world. Our DM on the other hand think we are too nice to each other. He thinks evil characters should betray each other if there is something to gain by it (he liked War of the Spider Queen a lot, I think he imagines we should be more like that), while we feel that evil people need friends too.
I'm just wondering how other people with evil characters deal with this issue.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 12:28:26
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This is a really complex issue. Evil characters will be able to have close friends and even have those that they care about and love very much. But, there has to be a reason that someone is evil. If you are just "I don't give a damn" about the rest of the world and out for yourselves, chances are you really are just neutral, and wanting sound edgier by being "evil."
Evil doesn't just mean that you are selfish. It means that you are willing to sacrifice the health and wellbeing of people that more or less innocent in order to advance yourself. It may not mean that you want to kick puppies or eat babies, but it does mean on some level you actually kind of enjoy watching people in pain and suffering, not just that you might screw them over if you get the chance.
Its entirely possible that such a person could have some close friends or family members, and treat them very well. Heck, a lawful evil character might even have a wide range of people that he doesn't like or care about that he won't screw over because of their status or position. However, when it comes down to it, I think that evil characters, even moreso than other characters, have a "price."
If the right set of circumstances comes about, they would turn on each other. It doesn't mean it happens all the time or lightly, but its possible depending on what the character really cares about the most. If they have always wanted to be Lord Marshall of the V Legion, and their best friend humiliates them at a state function that could have been the turning point in their career . . . well, some friendships end at swordpoint.
Plus, exactly what a character will do when their "price" is met is different with a good, neutral, or evil character. A neutral character that has a chance to get ahead with something very important to them might screw over a companion, but overall, they will avoid putting them in a life threatening situation if they can help it. An evil character, when they reach "breaking point," tend to be willing to do much more horrid things. While a neutral character might let the authorities think that their best friend stole something, and that person can never return to that city, the evil character might go out, murder an individual, and make sure that the "fall guy" is caught, and tried for as many crimes as possible, just to "make sure" the heat is off them.
So in the long run, its very difficult to play effectively. Its not impossible for evil characters to get along, even for most of their careers, but if the characters aren't really actively doing evil, either to one another or to the world around them, then why are they evil? Why aren't they just hard eyed neutral characters?
One thing I will throw out there is that from a DM's perspective, it is harder to "motivate" evil characters. While evil characters may oppose a greater evil, they may just try to convince it that they deserve to be on the payroll, and this adds all sorts of variables that you don't have in a good or neutral campaign. If you are playing evil characters, perhaps even moreso than good or neutral characters, you should really have a good, clear, idea of what your goals are and what's important to you so the DM knows what makes you tick. |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 12:47:57
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| Thanks for the long and interesting answer. Our character are actively doing evil,just not to each other. My personal opinion is that makes us evil, not just neutral because some selfless acts towards close friends. I'm lucky that our DM thinks that creating an adventure that will motivate evil characters is more fun, even if he thinks we should back stab more.. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 13:49:58
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Evil is the overall deffinition of character actions, the alignment does no require every action must be evil. Evil people fall in love, marry have children they love and so on. Doing a few good things for friends or family does not negate a evil overall assessment of a person or make them less evil because they trust and help a few people.
An assassin clan could very well be a family that trusts and helps member carryout assassinations. That will not make them neutral. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 17:12:58
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There is one more important clue you left behind, and that is the first part of Alligment, from what you posted i assume your PCs are LE perhaps NE, they doent sound like CE for sure.
I Agree with what KnightErrantJR have stated plus i believe its your DMs fault that the party gets along amongst themselves. Instead of giving you Out-Of-Character suggestions like: "You guys should backstab eachother more" he should motivate you for doing so, i believe he will do that at some point, and thats where the real joy of playing an evil party will begin.
In my Opinion there is no reason in playing evil if you pass along the misstrust, deceit and criss-crossing events in the party except if you want fellows doing evil around but deep within their souls they are good guys (another interesting opportunity for roleplay)
Of course this is just my thoughts, let us not forget that the target of the game is to have a great time along with some decent roleplay, if it works that way, that way it is |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2007 : 22:00:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
My friends and I are playing a campaign with evil characters. But we can't completely agree with our DM on the definition of evil. We players want to be a group of adventurers who are close friends and trust each other with our lives, but don't care about the rest of the world. Our DM on the other hand think we are too nice to each other. He thinks evil characters should betray each other if there is something to gain by it (he liked War of the Spider Queen a lot, I think he imagines we should be more like that), while we feel that evil people need friends too.
I'm just wondering how other people with evil characters deal with this issue.
The novels of the Marquis de Sade and some of the writings of Friedrich Nietzsche speak directly to this: both authors write that "evil" (or superior) people may acknowledge other people as equals and enjoy their company. In Sadean terms, it is perfectly alright to commit "crimes" against inferiors, but one may derive great pleasure from the company of those similarly inclined. In pragmatic terms, "evil" "friends" may serve as co-conspirators with one, and thus it would be self-defeating to inflict harm on them.
The Book of Vile Darkness begins with a chapter devoted to various kinds of "Evil," as does the AEG book Evil. The first may be searched on Amazon.com for relevant passages; the AEG book is just worth buying, period, IMHO.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2007 : 23:05:28
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The key thing to remember is that, contrary to what many gamers seem to think, being evil does not automatically mean that one is a murdering psychopath who slaughters innocents and betrays colleagues whenever possible. Being evil simply means that your first concern is either yourself and/or a group of your choosing.
Heck, look at Scyllua Darkhope. She's evil. But she serves an organization and works towards for the betterment of that group. She's not out backstabbing other Zhents; she's concentrating on those who oppose the Zhents.
And there are two vampires, both evil, who are serving the Moonstars. The Tel'Teukiira serve the causes of good, but here's two vampires who are working for them. It doesn't make the vampires good -- they could be, for all we know, happily murdering evil people who oppose the Moonstars. These vampires are not offing other Moonstars, and they are, either directly or indirectly, acting on the side of Light.
Heck, even Manshoon was in love -- as I recalled, he cried when he found out the Shadowsil was dead. And you can't get much more evil than Manshoon...
So there are canon examples of evil people not backstabbing, and caring for others -- either on a personal or a professional level.
Your DM is falling into the same trap that so many other people fall into. There are a lot of people that think that the alignment system in D&D is a broken mechanic, and I think people like your DM are why these folks think that. I've never found fault with the alignment system, myself, save for it being a tad too simplistic, sometimes. It's just something that some people simply don't understand. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2007 : 23:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heck, even Manshoon was in love -- as I recalled, he cried when he found out the Shadowsil was dead. And you can't get much more evil than Manshoon...
Evil characters can certainly love, but they will also certainly choose to save themselves instead of their loved one(s) in a life threatning situation.
After more thinking, that would be Neutral.
I'm not sure I agree that Evil characters can truly love someone except themselves. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 14 Aug 2007 23:37:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 01:32:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heck, even Manshoon was in love -- as I recalled, he cried when he found out the Shadowsil was dead. And you can't get much more evil than Manshoon...
Evil characters can certainly love, but they will also certainly choose to save themselves instead of their loved one(s) in a life threatning situation.
After more thinking, that would be Neutral.
I'm not sure I agree that Evil characters can truly love someone except themselves.
Why? Just because you don't care about anyone other than one person doesn't mean you can't utterly devote yourself to that person.
Again, being evil does not mean you always put yourself above everyone else -- it just means that in general, you look out for yourself and/or your group, and you don't worry about anyone else. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 01:56:02
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Alignment has only nine descriptors on two axis.
One is Evil more then Good they are Evil, they might not be pure Evil but that is not an alignment descriptor. If one charted a charactor actions on graph paper True Nuetral would be very close to the intersection point of Neutral on both Law axis and the Good Evil axis. Moving away from the center point a little one becmes less neutral, moving in Evil direction does not mean you will kill your mother for a copper penny. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 02:05:07
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
So in the long run, its very difficult to play effectively. Its not impossible for evil characters to get along, even for most of their careers, but if the characters aren't really actively doing evil, either to one another or to the world around them, then why are they evil? Why aren't they just hard eyed neutral characters?
Great points (great points by everyone, in fact). One thing Kairin mentioned was the DM thinking these evil characters were too nice to each other. Remember that some types of "friendships" can actually be pretty screwed up and unpleasant. Maybe evil person X is capable of being friends with and perhaps trusting those friends, but that doesn't mean he always treats them well. Maybe he snipes at them and makes all sorts of passive-aggresive comments, enjoys it, and rationalizes it as "toughening them up, because the real world isn't nice". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Aug 2007 02:05:32 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 02:07:12
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| Why do I suddenly remember the X-Men villain Arcade and his assistant trying to kill him for a birthday present? |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 02:18:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Maybe he snipes at them and makes all sorts of passive-aggresive comments, enjoys it, and rationalizes it as "toughening them up, because the real world isn't nice".
That's why I finally said that I have some doubts about the real friendship/love an Evil character can have for someone. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 15 Aug 2007 02:18:26 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 02:21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
That's why I finally said that I have some doubts about the real friendship/love an Evil character can have for someone.
It really is a difficult question, and I can understand having doubt.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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boddynock
Learned Scribe
Belgium
258 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 08:21:32
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| Bonny and Clyde??? They were definatly evil persons but they loved each other. |
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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 21:57:06
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quote:
Originally posted by boddynock
Bonny and Clyde??? They were definatly evil persons but they loved each other.
There are many examples of Evil Lovers in history.
In my view, the doing of an evil act does not mean the said person is unable to love or care for someone else on a one to one basis!
Some mothers how have been classed EVIL have done certain acts or things which in there mind are BECAUSE of love for there child!
there are many partners in crime ( Murderers / Child Molesters etc:) who do what they do through what they concieve as love!
As sick as it may be   
as for the trust issue, if a evil person is in love with another evil person they may or poss will trust each other as they both understand the reasons and motives behind there actions.
Delz |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 23:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
Some mothers how have been classed EVIL have done certain acts or things which in there mind are BECAUSE of love for there child!
there are many partners in crime ( Murderers / Child Molesters etc:) who do what they do through what they concieve as love!
That's true, and that's really where the issue of doubt comes in. The "difficult" question is, are the terrible acts that you've alluded to really a sign of love, or is love just being used by the perpetrators as a rationalization for their crimes (ie. "I beat my child because I love him; those whippings are good for him and will help him become a man")?
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Aug 2007 23:54:34 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 00:09:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
That's true, and that's really where the issue of doubt comes in. The "difficult" question is, are the terrible acts that you've alluded to really a sign of love, or is love just being used by the perpetrators as a rationalization for their crimes (ie. "I beat my child because I love him; those whippings are good for him and will help him become a man")?
You are stealing my words  |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 12:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
My friends and I are playing a campaign with evil characters. But we can't completely agree with our DM on the definition of evil. We players want to be a group of adventurers who are close friends and trust each other with our lives, but don't care about the rest of the world. Our DM on the other hand think we are too nice to each other. He thinks evil characters should betray each other if there is something to gain by it.
I tend to distil good, evil, chaos and law to simple concepts. Evil people tend not to help others too much. Your characters know each other and therefore see a benefit to helping each other out. Your characters may feel a stronger bond with each other because they recognise that they all share common principles.
I don't think your DM should be pushing your PC's into betraying each other because that is only going to make his job harder. By gaming as a group you're giving your DM an entity to deal with. One reason why games tend to better suited to good-aligned parties is that they work as a team.
Your group are adventuring not for the greater good but for their shared mutual gain and there's nothing wrong with that.
My final comment, is that many people confuse chaotic evil for chaotic stupid or psychopathic behaviour. however, if that was the case the drow wouldn't have any cities and all of the orcs would have killed one another centuries ago. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
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Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 19:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heck, even Manshoon was in love -- as I recalled, he cried when he found out the Shadowsil was dead. And you can't get much more evil than Manshoon...
Evil characters can certainly love, but they will also certainly choose to save themselves instead of their loved one(s) in a life threatning situation.
After more thinking, that would be Neutral.
I'm not sure I agree that Evil characters can truly love someone except themselves.
On the contrary, an "Evil" character may be totally obsessed with another individual and commit atrocities for that one person's benefit, actions which they wouldn't do for another person (perhaps not even for themselves). RW examples: Heinrich Himmler and the sons and generals of Genghis Khan; fictional example: the Phantom of the Opera.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 01:00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
On the contrary, an "Evil" character may be totally obsessed with another individual and commit atrocities for that one person's benefit, actions which they wouldn't do for another person (perhaps not even for themselves). RW examples: Heinrich Himmler and the sons and generals of Genghis Khan; fictional example: the Phantom of the Opera.
Although, when the Phantom of the Opera threatened to kill the man Christine loved to get her to stay with him, he was more concerned with what he wanted than anything else. Good point, though. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 13:22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I tend to distil good, evil, chaos and law to simple concepts. Evil people tend not to help others too much. Your characters know each other and therefore see a benefit to helping each other out. Your characters may feel a stronger bond with each other because they recognise that they all share common principles.
I don't think your DM should be pushing your PC's into betraying each other because that is only going to make his job harder. By gaming as a group you're giving your DM an entity to deal with. One reason why games tend to better suited to good-aligned parties is that they work as a team.
When I read this thread, I had to think of Raistlin in Dragonlance. (I have read the books many years ago, so maybe my memory may not always be accurate). He is of course an evil character, but he had no problems to work with and for the party. And then there is his special relationship to his brother for whom he cares very much. I think he is a good example for an evil character in a party. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 16:28:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
When I read this thread, I had to think of Raistlin in Dragonlance. (I have read the books many years ago, so maybe my memory may not always be accurate). He is of course an evil character, but he had no problems to work with and for the party. And then there is his special relationship to his brother for whom he cares very much. I think he is a good example for an evil character in a party.
Raistlin is an excellent example... Though undeniably evil, he was did things for the good of others. He certainly was willing to use people, but in the end, he still cared for others -- like sacrificing himself for Chrysania, or passing the Staff of Magius on to Palin. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 19:08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
When I read this thread, I had to think of Raistlin in Dragonlance. (I have read the books many years ago, so maybe my memory may not always be accurate). He is of course an evil character, but he had no problems to work with and for the party. And then there is his special relationship to his brother for whom he cares very much. I think he is a good example for an evil character in a party.
Raistlin is an excellent example... Though undeniably evil, he was did things for the good of others. He certainly was willing to use people, but in the end, he still cared for others -- like sacrificing himself for Chrysania, or passing the Staff of Magius on to Palin.
D'accord. I haven't read the Dragonlance novels, but Raistlin's personality is made clear in the DL Adventures book and whatever the new edition of it is called.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 20:06:03
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While you shouldn't be all hugs and kisses with your fellow evil friends, you don't have to be willing to betray them at the drop of a dime.
Look to gang members, I doubt there is one among their number that could be considered Good aligned, but they certainly have a bond among themselves. It is a Them vs Us mentality.
Tough Love should be the word of the day among evil friends. =) |
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Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Warrax
Learned Scribe
Canada
128 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 21:43:18
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Evil is very much a matter of perspective in many regards; what is evil? To act in a fashion considered evil is to act against the moral values of a given society, no?
But evil doesn't have to be psychopathic and completely immersed in wanton destruction at every level; a person may be evil in one particular regard but otherwise be "normal."
Take a racist, for example; they're horrible people because they discriminate on the basis of a meaningless physical trait but in their interactions with their own kind, they are often wholesome, loyal, reliable, friendly and even warm, loving people.
They're still evil racist bastards but it is not a trait that dominates their entire existence.
Evil people can have friends; the insane and psychopathic find it a great deal more troublesome but evil is not confined to insanity and sociopathic tendencies.
Take war, for another example; the loser in a war is invariably branded evil and cast in a horrible light... and we routinely dismiss "I was only following orders" as an excuse for many things (some correctly, some not so much).
But what if the real bad guy wins? What if the Axis nations won World War II? They were clearly "evil" in many of the traditional senses but if they'd one, who'd be around to call them so? They would be the victors and therefore the authors of history.
Evil is defined by goals and methods much moreso than I'm inferring from comments in this thread.
Loyalty and evil are not mutually exclusive, it's just that your list of people to whom you are loyal and deal with honestly may be considerably shorter. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 22:50:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Warrax
... real world analogies ...
Don't mix real world and D&D when discussing alignments. For definition of Good and Evil, look the PHB/SRD. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 31 Aug 2007 22:50:49 |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 09:44:41
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| It actually worked out fine for us in the end. Our GM realized it was funny how the party doted on each other while being completely sociopathic towards the rest of the world. It won't be the most serious campaign ever, but it's amusing. But I still think evil can be more complex than just backstabbing and killing people. It's an interesting discussion. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 16:43:53
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After reading all the posts here at this thread, I must admit that I agree with much of what have been said. I agree with KnightErrantJR that this is complex issue, and that Evil doesn't just mean that you are selfish ore cold hearted.
(My statement) But it isn’t the typical way to playing an evil character.
“There is reason whey a character is evil” and there is a big difference between playing evil and good
Evil characters can have friends, loved ones and work in a group if they share a conmen goal.
Evil characters have (not undead) feelings and have a opinion, but still there is a difference between how
you see the would if you are LG ore CE
But there is a big difference between the tree kinds of Evil. LE – NE – CE
LE – Respect through fear - Yes a good example off this alignment is pointed out by Wooly Rupert : Scyllua Darkhope is working fore the better of the organization, bit its important to know that see is respected out of fear and not love. The people under her follow her orders because they have a conmen goal. Loyalty comes through fear not the same kind of respect and see in Cormyr fore example, where they follow the king because they simply love him.
- I would say that this alignment is the best suitable fore an evil adventuring party, because there is order and a mutual understanding what the group is working to achieve.
NE – The most selfish alignment there is. A NE group would work perfect with each other
if they all got profit out of it. If there was a chance of more profit, by killing ore stealing a NE would do that. In some ways an adventuring band wouldn’t kill each other because there would be more profit for them all, if they help each other so they could get more profit.
- I would say that this alignment works fine in a group while the flow of gold comes running in, but when the flow stops the problems begins.
CE – The strongest survive and gets what he wants. A CE Group would need a very strong leader too lead an adventuring band of this alignment. And the adventuring band would follow the leader out of fear. The share off lot is divided by each taking his share in the order of power in the groupe.
I think it’s important to be aware whey evil adventures groups hold together, and don’t mix it with how a good group works.
If you would like to see a very good way how alignment is played and how they work together as a group/organisation, you just cheek how the different religions / organisation works.
These reasons should be clear.
- There is reason whey a character is evil
- There is reason whey the group stick together
I will end this with the words I quoted to start with : This is a “complex issue”, and I have showed you my opinion on how to play evil in a group.
The Nine Alignments
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#alignment |
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
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Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 02 Sep 2007 16:44:40 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 17:35:45
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| NE is actually my fave evil alignment... I don't know that I'd call it the most selfish, though. They will see the advantage of having laws and order and such, and likely stick to it, but they are also willing to step out of bounds every now and again. If I had a D&D alignment, it'd be NG, so I prefer the neutral side of any of the morality axes. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 19:49:03
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I would think that you were LG Wooly Rupert, if not you wouldn’t have cared fore the code of conduct here 
I want to tell you all a story about playing evil.
3 years ago we started making a new group, and then I was a player and I was so sick and tired of seeing people playing evil characters (The former campaign) without even doing anything evil. When I asked whey they had an evil alignment, they said that it gave the some freedom when playing.
Okay I had a week to create a character, and I wanted to show them all how to play an evil charekter
- I chose a alignment
NE.
Neutral Evil is the purest evil of all evil alignment because it doesn’t need to considerate honor (law) and without variation (chaos). A neutral evil character does whatever she can get away with and he/she sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport or convenience. Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake.
- And then I took a class
Fanatic cleric of Velsharoon: God of necromancy, necromancers, evil liches, undeath
- And I made a personality
Cold-hearted (Only healing believers)
Fanatic (Kill all who says anything bad about Velsharoon )
Egoistic (Stealing – Lying – cheating)
Goals (When the false life end the true life begins : Unlife )
Inhuman (Silent – Strange – cryptic)
Strange (always praying and purring unholy water on other characters and saying that unlife awaits them, sometimes when thy slept
- The game started
At start other people didn’t notice that I were a priest I were a old man in black robes holding a staff, then they slowly began to see that something was really wrong. I didn’t respond to their questions when they started conversation whit me, and always praying in a strange language.
They didn’t really notice me because I were no thread fore them, I were weak and a coward in their eyes. The Tempus priest healed their wounds and told them about Tempus and every time I interrupted by telling them that there was life after mortal life – True life.
The days / weeks went on and when I was powerful enough (stole magic items and sold them) I began to walk around with my unholy symbol. They started to ask me tons of questions about my religion, and I told them about it in a positive way (lying), some were angry because I could have healed them (outside game I said I were multi class) and some didn’t care.
One day a major battle began the Tempus cleric went on -3 and stabilized, and I and another character were alive, the rest were paralysed ore unconscious. The Tempus priest begged me to heal his wounds, and I kept on saying that the true life was near and that he didn’t had to worry, the other players began to look at each other and they began to whisper.
Sunrise came and the Tempus priests were angry, he didn’t say anything and healed all the other characters. One new character came into the game a necromancer, a new believer he said and he identified the loot. There were a Lighting great Axe and the Tempus priest took it and told all that is was his. I told him that I didn’t care I wanted my part of the axe, and I wanted to sell it.
He said that my good was no crap worth in battle ore after a battle. I made him repeat it and he did. I told that he now had called fore the time where he should start true life. The rest of the group said the same things about my religion but the necromancer crept quite.
In town.
I waited and kept quite and when all the players was asleep I cast silence on myself, kicked the door inn where the Tempus priest were asleep and killed him with the great axe, then I killed all the other characters. The necromancer helped me clean the rooms fore blood and the bodies were animated and thrown in the harbour.
The necromancer and I ridded out the city and when we were along way from the gates I asked him if he was sure about believing in Velsharoon. He said he was sure!
I am telling you this because after this game session two of the groups members left us fore good, they were angry and disappointed. Playing evil characters can have its consequences.
Vic
Sorry fore the long post 
Mod edit: Watch the language, folks. We want to keep this place PG, at least.
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Sep 2007 03:57:34 |
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Evil and friendship
