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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2003 : 18:15:23
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I'm not sure which theater you are talking about, Bookwym , but there is some interesting info on the net about Japanese theater.
One site says "Staged at special theaters called nogakudo, both noh and kyogen feature only male actors."
It goes on to talk about the more popular Kabuki theater (which might be what you were thinking)
"Kabuki: The first performances of kabuki were staged by a female troupe at the beginning of the seventeenth century, but in 1629 the Tokugawa shogunate, worried about public morals, issued a proclamation prohibiting all women from performing. From then until the Meiji period Japan officially had no female actors at all. Since it became necessary for men to perform female parts in kabuki, there emerged a type of actor called onnagata (female impersonator)...."
*This information was found at http://www.jinjapan.org/today/culture/culture12.html *
I think that it all depends on the culture in which you were raised. I have been working with kids for over eleven years, and they always want to play "dress-up." Some parents will say "Isn't that cute?" and go on. Others will freak out and demand that the kid go change. I think these reactions have a lasting impact on what the kid thinks is okay.
In general, I think more dads are concerned about their sons' preferences than their daughters', and some of them actually believe this reflects directly on them as the male influence. At least around here, this accounts for a lot of what people think is okay for males and females to do. I think that's why it is easier for females to play males.
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Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 07:33:58
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quote:
Originally posted by eilinel
And how does a female dress up?
i never wore any dress, if its what u meant and i will never even under the torture -well, we can make a deal... 
What I meant was that I think to play a female in a live action scenario, I'd have to look the part as well as roleplay it to be able to pull it off. You know, wear feminine clothes, make-up, etc, and I'm the type of guy that just wouldn't feel 'right' in doing so. Not to mention that I'd make a horrendous looking woman. (just picture Cpl. Klinger from M*A*S*H and you'll get the idea) I can roleplay females fairly well when I'm sitting around a table or in front of a PC, but I'd probably be very self concious of the fact that I was a man in a dress. Some guys would be able to pull it off, but not me.
And I have to say, I really like to see women in dresses and the like. Not all the time and not neccessarily 'dressed up', but definitely something more feminine than jeans. I guess it's just a guy thing. 
As far as your deal goes, just what would it take for you to wear a dress?
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Yasraena there is a guy at the LARP I play that DOES play a female. he is just someone I wish would not COME to the larp. He runs around talking in this FAKE high pitch accent, and acting like a total idiot. I think he is gay as well which is inconsequential, but he ALWAYS tries to flirt with male PC's at the game. He only botherd me ONCE... I enfeebled his mind for a half hour and he has not bothered me since.
Does he dress in drag too?
Obviously, this is an example of someone who can't roleplay a female at all. I think I'd have a hard time gamng with someone like that. You're right, the gay thing is totaly inconsequential, but an annoying and idiotic personality is not.  |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 19:51:34
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See, Yasraena? Your reaction at wearing a dress is the same as mine for role-playing a woman at a table-top game, and for exactly the same reason. I just have a lower threshold than you do.
By the by, glad to know you're a MASH fan!
Digger: "Aren't you the guy trying to get out of the army by pretending he's a woman?"
Klinger: [sarcastically] "No, I'm the woman trying to get into the army by pretending she's a man."
Digger: "Cute."
Or another favorite:
Burns: "Another week in command and I would've had you out of that dress!"
Klinger: "I'm not that easy!"
I love that show. Probably the best one ever to air! |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 21:22:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Yasraena there is a guy at the LARP I play that DOES play a female. he is just someone I wish would not COME to the larp. He runs around talking in this FAKE high pitch accent, and acting like a total idiot. I think he is gay as well which is inconsequential, but he ALWAYS tries to flirt with male PC's at the game. He only botherd me ONCE... I enfeebled his mind for a half hour and he has not bothered me since.
OK YES I am quoting myself here...
Well I just got back from LARPING this weekend and I had contact with that fellow I was talking about. Remember when Bran said Men that ONLY play women are a bit odd? Well, I NOticed this GUY umm person I was talking to had REAL breasts. He had very male features, Very long hair with a slightly balding spot on top, and female anatomy on his torso. Needless to say he is one of those Females trapped in a male body. He beleives there was a mistake and he was put in the wrong body. I didn't have the heart to tell him he could NEVER get rid of the Y chromosome, but I was just mildly disturbed. Coming form a scientific standpoint I think it is ridiculous (sp?). Then when I start voicing this one of my friends JEN told me HOW DARE I SAY that, for I do not know whether or not he was meant to be a girl or a boy. I gave up the argument, some people just do NOT understand the power of genetics, XX or XY has the FINAL word.
I also hate the fact that medical dollars are used to perform surgeries like sex changes. I am not against gay or lesbians in any way, but I have to admit, I just cannot except the transsexual argument as relevant (I am not equating gay or lesbians with transexuals either). There are people that are born unable to walk, and they may feel cheated but there is nothing we can do about it. Why then is a doctor even WONDERING if an operation to change sex is even possible. I will stop now before I rant further and beat this into the ground. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 21:38:39
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Well, you got me there BW. I just don't see the similarities between the two.
Playing one while at a tabletop game is one thing, but dressing in drag to play one is something completely different. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 22:11:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Well I just got back from LARPING this weekend and I had contact with that fellow I was talking about. Remember when Bran said Men that ONLY play women are a bit odd? Well, I NOticed this GUY umm person I was talking to had REAL breasts. He had very male features, Very long hair with a slightly balding spot on top, and female anatomy on his torso. Needless to say he is one of those Females trapped in a male body. He beleives there was a mistake and he was put in the wrong body. I didn't have the heart to tell him he could NEVER get rid of the Y chromosome, but I was just mildly disturbed. Coming form a scientific standpoint I think it is ridiculous (sp?). Then when I start voicing this one of my friends JEN told me HOW DARE I SAY that, for I do not know whether or not he was meant to be a girl or a boy. I gave up the argument, some people just do NOT understand the power of genetics, XX or XY has the FINAL word.
I also hate the fact that medical dollars are used to perform surgeries like sex changes. I am not against gay or lesbians in any way, but I have to admit, I just cannot except the transsexual argument as relevant (I am not equating gay or lesbians with transexuals either). There are people that are born unable to walk, and they may feel cheated but there is nothing we can do about it. Why then is a doctor even WONDERING if an operation to change sex is even possible. I will stop now before I rant further and beat this into the ground.
Getting WAY off topic with this but I had to put my 2 cents in.....
I'd have to disagree on the grounds that regardless of the physical makeup of someone, the psychological makeup is really the one that counts. If you don't feel happy in who you are, or you just don't feel right about who you are, you have the unalienable right to correct it by whatever means neccessary. Just because you were born a genetic male or female doesn't mean that you should have been.
This guy you speak of truly is a woman trapped in a man's body. It doesn't matter to him that he has the genetic makeup of a man. In his mind, he feels like a woman, and having the physical traits of a man and having to live as one is like a living hell for him. There have been cases where people with this disorder (Gender Dysphoria I belive it's called) have killed themselves because of having to live their life as a man, when they feel that they're a woman, or vice versa. Imagine what it would be like Mournblade, to have the same mental outlook you have now (a man's), but have to live your life in a womans body. If you can do that, you might be able to see what it's like for transsexuals in general and for this guy in particular. I have nothing but sympathy for them.
Personally, I'm glad that there are doctors out there that perform such operations, for the sole reason that they make life worth living again for these people, and anything that can help people live a better/happier life is OK by me.
There. I'm done now too.
Boy, talk about tangents running wild! Sorry Alaundo!  |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 01:08:56
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Well there ARE other ways to adapt, but the fact is simply the operation is NOTHING but an illusion. The equiptment does not work right, it just kind of looks like it. SO they would NEVER be able to actually BE a female/male. That is my point, they can only look like it, they will never BE it. They just need thereapy, not a useless rerouting of the pipes.
But I fully respect and understand your viewpoint.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 04:23:33
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I have to agree with Yasraena on this one. Though I don't want to go so far as to speculate as to what they 'should' have been -- that's presuming on God. (It also assumes that God made a mistake. That, by definition, is impossible; whether you believe in God or not, the very nature of God is to be omnipotent and omnisient.) What does matter is how the person in question feels is what should have happened.
I agree, Mournblade, that such surgery is mere illusion, but sometimes illusion is necessary. A person's comfort is what matters. Sometimes that comfort should include others as well (for instance, I find such people very disconcerting to look at), but imagine how it feels to them. They'd feel trapped in the wrong body, with no way out. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 14:20:34
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just to point something, guys, girls can wear man clothes and u don't worry a lot, but why men couldn't wear woman clothes?
ok, it may be not exactly the same thing, but u'd agree that ther is something strange here.
Yasraena said
quote:
As far as your deal goes, just what would it take for you to wear a dress?
mmh well, i used to wear dresses when i was a child, but not anymore. And don't think that i wear jeans instead. Pants, right but quite rarely jeans. And how do u call short dresses? i use to wear that but not often and only in summer.
if u pay me all the clothes i would, ye, maybe i would wear a dress for few days... |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 14:25:52
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completely out of topic but Yasraena, why do u live in Sacramento? its the stillest city i have ever seen -after Milhawkee when there is no Gencon
When u have San Francisco so close... i hope its just for the job |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 18:36:37
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eilinel:
In the US, men can't be affectionate to each other in public the way women can, any more than men can dress as women. The US is a lot more uptight than Europe when it comes to gender roles. Heck, the US is just plain more uptight. All that residual Puritanism.
In American English, a very short skirt is a "mini-skirt". I have heard the word "mini-dress" used to describe a very short dress, but not very often.
I think your English is getting better. Now if only my French would, too. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 19:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by eilinel
completely out of topic but Yasraena, why do u live in Sacramento? its the stillest city i have ever seen -after Milhawkee when there is no Gencon
When u have San Francisco so close... i hope its just for the job
Hahaha!I see that you've actually visited this glorified farming town, eilinel. But yeah, that's exactly why I moved here. Beleive me, it's not the place I would choose to live in, but for the moment, it has to be. I'd prefer to live back in the Reno/Lake Tahoe area again, but the job market for my field (I.T./I.S.) is just swamped with applicants right now, and there aren't a lot of those type of jobs in that area. Beleive me, I have been looking for ways to get out of this city, but nothing yet, so I must 'go with the flow' for now. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 20:24:54
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Yasraena:
quote:
<snip> it's not the place I would choose to live in, but for the moment, it has to be. I'd prefer to live back in the Reno/Lake Tahoe area again <snip>
I was figuring Vacaville
I know you game only 2 or 3 times a year because of time constraints and not because of a lack of palyers, but what's the RPG community like there? I'm not planning on moving there , , and double-, I'm just curious. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 20:34:27
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quote:
Originally posted by eilinel
just to point something, guys, girls can wear man clothes and u don't worry a lot, but why men couldn't wear woman clothes?
ok, it may be not exactly the same thing, but u'd agree that ther is something strange here.
Yes, I pointed that out last page.
Oh, and why do you say that Sacremento and San Fransisco are 'close'? They're farther apart than any two cities in France (unless you count Paris and some city in Corsica, maybe . . . .) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 20:49:35
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| They're "close" in California terms. Heck, people live in Sacramento and work in San Francisco. |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 12:11:08
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California is as big as France actually, so...
and no, its not that far, belive me. just Davis between the both i think. Yasraena should know.
quote:
In the US, men can't be affectionate to each other in public the way women can, any more than men can dress as women. The US is a lot more uptight than Europe when it comes to gender roles. Heck, the US is just plain more uptight. All that residual Puritanism.
i know... they are the most puritan people i have ever seen... And after that, they go to Las Vegas... How the hell could i understand that? too far from my way of mind
And no number 13 too,
just kidding, nevermind
quote:
In American English, a very short skirt is a "mini-skirt". I have heard the word "mini-dress" used to describe a very short dress, but not very often.
yes, i remember now, a skirt and mini-skirt for a short one. I don't wear things that short but skirts, yes.
quote:
Hahaha!I see that you've actually visited this glorified farming town, eilinel. But yeah, that's exactly why I moved here. Beleive me, it's not the place I would choose to live in, but for the moment, it has to be. I'd prefer to live back in the Reno/Lake Tahoe area again, but the job market for my field (I.T./I.S.) is just swamped with applicants right now, and there aren't a lot of those type of jobs in that area. Beleive me, I have been looking for ways to get out of this city, but nothing yet, so I must 'go with the flow' for now.
poor Yasraena, i have been there for few days and i tried to go out the fastest i could...
But food and drink are relatively cheap there, compared with rest of California, though.
I was in the Sonoma County for few months and once a month i went in Sacramento to buy meat and everything, so expensive in Sonoma, like in Napa Valley.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 14:03:17
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I think we are heading way off into Off-Topic country here fellow sages .
Perhaps we should try to bring the thread back to where the conversation really started. After all, we don't want to make Alaundo cross with all of us, with all this non-FR related discussion do we? .
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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What gender do you enjoy playing the most?
