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Trafaldi
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jan 2003 : 19:06:09
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The question about the best multiclass has been asked but the opposite of it has not been asked.
What would you consider the worst multi-class?
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Some believe there is something more after death, if you really want to find out... go kill yourself and stop pestering me. |
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AraznBlair
Learned Scribe
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2003 : 20:43:18
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| I can't really think of a worst multi-class character. For me I found that a Cleric/Mage/Thief was hard to play. To many classes to remember. But again thats just me. |
Arazn Blair
Fightermage Extrodinare |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 08:09:38
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Pretty much anything multi-classed with a thief sucks IMHO!
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 09:53:48
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The only multi-class combination that I do not like is Cleric/Thief.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 12:38:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Echon
The only multi-class combination that I do not like is Cleric/Thief.
Same here! I totally agree with Echon, it doesnt seem right or valid to have such a multi-class, its like a contradiction in beliefs. Although I suppose it depends a lot on the characters alignment. Even so, id never use it. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Kitira Gildragon
Learned Scribe
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 12:52:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Echon
The only multi-class combination that I do not like is Cleric/Thief.
Same here! I totally agree with Echon, it doesnt seem right or valid to have such a multi-class, its like a contradiction in beliefs. Although I suppose it depends a lot on the characters alignment. Even so, id never use it.
Unless it's a cleric who venerates a god of thieves
I think the worst class has to be the C/M/T multiclass... think about all of the restrictions- What a nightmare! |
-Space for rent- |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 14:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Kitira Gildragon
Unless it's a cleric who venerates a god of thieves
yeah ok, i wasnt thinking straight!  im stupid 
I have just never used clerics that way, I have always stuck with the stereotypical good cleric idea for some reason. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 14:58:15
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I don't know if there is something as a 'worst multi-class'. I see only challenges in roleplaying for more unlikely combinations. The terms best and worst have a tendency to reflect statistics and calculations; in other words they reek of min-maxing IMO.
Though I can imagne such the terms used in CRPGs, where role-playing is less 'evolved' and where more focus is on effectiveness of the character in combat and magic. |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 16:39:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
I don't know if there is something as a 'worst multi-class'. I see only challenges in roleplaying for more unlikely combinations. The terms best and worst have a tendency to reflect statistics and calculations; in other words they reek of min-maxing IMO.
Though I can imagne such the terms used in CRPGs, where role-playing is less 'evolved' and where more focus is on effectiveness of the character in combat and magic.
I do not attempt to conceal the fact that the reason I do not like that particular combination is because the restrictions of the cleric severely limit the thief's abilities. So yeah, I am referring to combat and not roleplaying. 
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 17:36:47
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Just for the record, I'm not saying min-maxing is bad per-se, just that it isn't my cup-a-tea.
If people enjoy playing characters in a min-maxing way then that is great. The goal is to enjoy the game.  |
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Salius Kai
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2003 : 20:11:39
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| I would have to say Fighter/Mage. Sure, the ability to have spells and strenght all in one is nice, but your stats would be too spread out. And, wearing the Fighters heavy armor, would make the Mages spells fail ore often, unless you took the armor off every time you cast a spell. |
"Welcome to these walls of infinite knowledge."
Salius Kai |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2003 : 17:43:43
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| I'm sure every bladesinger (elven fightermage) is going to disagree with you Salius. But on the average it tends to be an awkward combination when there's a lot of heavy melee fighting involved... |
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Feanor_Karnil
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2003 : 19:18:09
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| I would say any character who has 3 classes, they're very annoying and hard to keep up with. |
We live in a bleak world my friend, where heroes are few and shadows stalk us around every corner.
-Mikai Daerni |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2003 : 12:31:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Just for the record, I'm not saying min-maxing is bad per-se, just that it isn't my cup-a-tea.
If people enjoy playing characters in a min-maxing way then that is great. The goal is to enjoy the game.
Indeed. I think every player min/maxes to some degree and I would think it awkward if things were different. It is not like the best roleplayer is the one with the most horrible character with regard to combat. Everyone would like a character who is as efficient as possible in as many different situations as possible, including combat.
Some people seem to view even the slighest min/maxing with such dread that they go in the complete opposite direction.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2003 : 12:37:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
I'm sure every bladesinger (elven fightermage) is going to disagree with you Salius. But on the average it tends to be an awkward combination when there's a lot of heavy melee fighting involved...
So far, I have not had the pleasure of being a player in an AD&D campaign but the first character I am going to create when I get the chance is a Grey Elf Fighter/Mage with Bladesinging fighting style (not the kit).
I admit the when I was first introduced to AD&D I did not like this combination at all, it was too contradictory, but after having played Baldur's Gate with a human dual-classed fighter/mage, an elven fighter/mage/thief and a half-elven fighter/mage/cleric I must say that I have become quite addicted to the versality of this class.
In my humble opinion, of course.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Aust Grimshadow
Acolyte
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2003 : 21:32:19
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| I imagine it would be hard to play a Bard/Barbarian/Thief...but there must be some kind of rule violation in that multiclass. |
"Lies engulf the drow in fear and mistrust, refute friendship at the tip of a Lolth blessed sword. The hatred and ambition fostered by these amoral tenets are the doom of my people, a weakness they perceive as strength. The result is a paralyzing existence that the drow call the edge of readiness." -Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Jalfrez
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2003 : 20:34:29
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| I'd have to say mage/thief. It gets very annoying taking of armor of and on while casting spells and theifing. |
Millike for all
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sushisauce
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2003 : 01:31:23
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F/M/T get really bad with armor and restrictions and... argh! (IMHO)
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Normal is what we choose it to be. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2003 : 20:57:10
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| Any mid-level character with only 1 level of ranger. |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2003 : 20:01:11
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I dont like anything crossed with a mage (except perhaps a theif) because
A) I like my mages to be as powerful as possible
B) Constantly changing armour really pisses me off.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2003 : 00:55:04
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Warrior/Cleric
Too much overlap in the fighting abilities of the classes. A cleric is generically a backup fighter. If you are going to multiclass choosing something with less duplication of abilities. |
Artalis
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2003 : 04:35:46
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| Wouldn't warrior/thief be a bad one, under that criteria? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2003 : 13:55:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Wouldn't warrior/thief be a bad one, under that criteria?
Are you speaking of the warrior NPC class? |
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Kiarin DAleshan
Candlekeep Inn Waitress
12 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2003 : 14:24:20
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 The TDM is still alive! Wow!
Back on topic: Thief warrior? Why not use it? Use the warrior's HP bonus as well as it's weapon proficiencies, then become a thief. The higher HP will help your character last longer and the extra weapon proficiencies (sp?) can be useful. |
Kiarin D'Aleshan
Candlekeep Inn Waitress
Moderator
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
"This is an inn, not a tavern, m'lord!" |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2003 : 16:33:34
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I think that warriors fits well with any class, e.g. a fighter/thief is a thief that is more skilled at combat, the same goes for fighter/clerics and fighter/mages.
I also think that the mage fits well with any class. The spells of the mage are good for augmenting the abilities of the other class, Cat's Grace and invisibility for mage/thieves and Armor and Strength for fighter/mages, etc.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2003 : 02:46:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Wouldn't warrior/thief be a bad one, under that criteria?
Not really (IMHO anyway) the rogue is a skill-based class with many abilities not available to warriors. Rogues are also a step down from clerics in combat making them 2 steps away from a fighter.
I believe fighter/rogues to be an excellent multiclass the combination of subterfuge and top level fighting abilities are very complimentary. |
Artalis
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Aust Grimshadow
Acolyte
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2003 : 14:01:54
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| I agree with Artalis. The rogue/fighter multiclass is quite an exellent choice. I have used this multiclass in most of the characters i have made lately. If a rogue/fighter is what you want, you really get the best of both worlds. You get the thievery skills of a rogue (given you take up to a high enough level of rogue) such as crippling strike or slippery mind, and the fighter makes you a skilled fighter as well. I also usually as a level of ranger for the ambidextry/two weapon fighting and a hate race. |
"Lies engulf the drow in fear and mistrust, refute friendship at the tip of a Lolth blessed sword. The hatred and ambition fostered by these amoral tenets are the doom of my people, a weakness they perceive as strength. The result is a paralyzing existence that the drow call the edge of readiness." -Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2003 : 14:04:16
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Do rangers recieve ambidexterity by default in 3E?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2003 : 14:45:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Echon
Do rangers recieve ambidexterity by default in 3E?
-Echon
No, I don't think so. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2003 : 21:50:45
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Drummer Boy:
>Originally posted by Echon
>>Do rangers recieve ambidexterity by default in 3E?
>No, I don't think so.
Huh? They get ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting for free.
Look at the 3rd ediion FR campaign book. Artemis Entreri has a single level of ranger. Has he ever had an "rangerishness" anywhere else?
The folks at WotC are minmaxers. I don't say that an evil ranger with his own race as a favored enemy is lame. In fact, that's probably a good class to take if you want your character to be a professional assassin. But a 20th level character (or whatever Entreri is) with a single level of ranger is just plain cheap. For the price of a single level, you get three feats and 1 level of favored enemy, and you get the second best hit die in the rules.
"The ranger is broken" is a common hue and cry in 3e-land, but there's a reason for that. That's why I say any mid-level character with only a single level of ranger is the worst multi-class. |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2003 : 22:09:48
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quote:
Originally posted by branmakmuffin
Huh? They get ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting for free.
Look at the 3rd ediion FR campaign book. Artemis Entreri has a single level of ranger. Has he ever had an "rangerishness" anywhere else?
The folks at WotC are minmaxers. I don't say that an evil ranger with his own race as a favored enemy is lame. In fact, that's probably a good class to take if you want your character to be a professional assassin. But a 20th level character (or whatever Entreri is) with a single level of ranger is just plain cheap. For the price of a single level, you get three feats and 1 level of favored enemy, and you get the second best hit die in the rules.
"The ranger is broken" is a common hue and cry in 3e-land, but there's a reason for that. That's why I say any mid-level character with only a single level of ranger is the worst multi-class.
It never made any sense to me why rangers are better at fighting with two weapons than others but the fact that they recieve ambidexterity for free is simply ridiculous. I might consider it hilarious but in a way it is sad. A class is not something that affects the physics of a person. In my opinion a wizard could be just as likely to be ambidexterious as anybody else.
As far as powergaming goes, Wizards of the Coast sure has made that a lot easier which I have experienced several times to be one of the reasons why a lot of people stick with 2E. This only applies to me slightly as I have other reasons as well. If the DM was not busy keeping the balance earlier, at least he is more busy now.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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worst multi-class
