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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 16:16:29
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I just finished the book.. And I have to say.. I was really blown away by the ending. Didn't expect that ending..
Mod Edit: Added possible spoiler tag to title.
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Edited by - Arkhaedun on 02 Feb 2007 22:57:53
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2007 : 17:27:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
I just finished the book.. And I have to say.. I was really blown away by the ending. Didn't expect that ending..
Seconded. By now, I've got quite a thing ready for the Book Club when the topics go up for February. |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 10:01:10
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| I find the ending ridicules. Eillistraee winning that badly? Guess I should see that coming when I notice Lisa Shedman's the author. I wouldn't be surprise she'd kill Lolth off or weaken her considerably by the end of the third novel. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 10:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ywhtptgtfo
I find the ending ridicules. Eillistraee winning that badly? Guess I should see that coming when I notice Lisa Shedman's the author. I wouldn't be surprise she'd kill Lolth off or weaken her considerably by the end of the third novel.
I don't care to much myself, but you might think of putting a spoiler mark on that one as somebody probably would not like to know even that little about the ending. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 22:42:08
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Hmmm. Do you guys think one should finish the War of the Spider Queen before reading this? I haven't finished that series yet, but now I'm eager to pick up this book. It's really not a big deal for me to be "spoiled" about certain things (I know many of the plot basics already). Does reading the entire WotSQ series really make the reading experience better?
Any opinions welcome. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 22:59:40
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A few times now here at Candlekeep we have had some well meaning scribes that got copies of various novels early let loose spoilers or drop information in threads that were not originally intended to have spoilers in them. I went ahead and added the tag at the begining of this thread so as to keep any scribes from finding out too much about this book before they are ready to do so.
Thanks. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 23:02:54
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| Hmm, the final outcome of the series it is hard to guess, however Ed offered a reply that in his opinion Lolth will remain the most powerful Drow deity. We will need to wait and see what occurs in the next two books. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 05:52:10
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Ok since Arkhaedun was nice enough to add a spoiler warning to the this thread most everyone should be paying attention, but just in case>>>>>>> If you havent read the book yet skip this post!!>>>>>
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Now then --
Dear Lisa, I was particulary pleased to see that you were writing this book and was definately looking forward to it! I've read all your other Realms novels and have always taken the time before to let you know how much I enjoy your writing! (The ONLY realm novelist to do an exciting psion trilogy to date!!!) and this book was no exception. Boy you had me going from the begining- and since I was sick with a nasty stomach flu that was going around at the time- it was just the thing I needed to take my mind off all that garbage.
This novel was smartly written- off course I expected nothing less- and already I know theres certainly more twists and turns to come!
Though I must admit I am fearfull for Eillistraee's future- Lolth always seems to have some trick or ohter up her sleeve to unbalance the game and Im sure this is no exception.
Just tell me if you can will she survive?
Though I'm already seeing hints that nothing is going to be the same with her again.
P.S. Thanks again for the read well worth the money and time and I look forward to the next one! Good fortune to you to Lisa!
P.F.O.A.
Joe |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 05:55:46
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Oh yea I forgot Dear Rinonalyrna- Ive read the WOTSQ books and I dont think it changes the reading experience that much though its always more enjoyable to me to know characters and thier motivations to better relate to- just my opinion!
PFoA |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 16:18:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince Forge of Avalon
Oh yea I forgot Dear Rinonalyrna- Ive read the WOTSQ books and I dont think it changes the reading experience that much though its always more enjoyable to me to know characters and thier motivations to better relate to- just my opinion!
PFoA
Thank you so much for your opinion. I'm leaning towards reading this book next, after all the hubbub about it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2007 : 12:57:01
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Wow, what a book. This is an absolutely awesome novel!! I loved the WotSQ series, and this book really picks up the various strands of that story very well.
If you are reading this Lisa, outstanding job. Following Q'arlynd after we last saw him in Insurrection is a masterful stroke. His interacton with his Svirfneblin slave is a really interesting bit of interaction. I also found it very interesting to see the events of WotSQ from the perspective of Qilue, especially given how much Eilistraee's faithful put on Halisstra's shoulders following her conversion. I also really like the portrayal of the Darksong Knights and the Selvatargtlin. I can't wait to see what you do with this story. It looks like the Drow pantheon is in for a shakeup, perhaps even more of a shakeup than it recieved in WotSQ. I think that is a good thing. Keep up the good work, and I eagerly await the next two books in the trilogy. |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 12:50:53
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| Hm, how about moving this thread to the Book Club section? |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 14:33:49
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| Nothing against this fine piece of novel writing, though in general one wonders why it is the drow pantheon that gets soooo much attention. I mean, there are far more Elven or even Dwarven deities about, why not write something stylish about Shevarash's fall or Fenmarel roving about on his own? There are 150 odd human deities to shake up and reduce in number, if need be. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 18:43:31
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| Question: Is Vhaerun's future definite or uncertain? The ending seemed a bit....ambiguous |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 18:45:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Question: Is Vhaerun's future definite or uncertain? The ending seemed a bit....ambiguous
Seems like you answered your own question.
Anyway, I think this is a great book--I like Eilistraee's religion, and it certainly helps that Lisa Smedman is a fine author. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 22:35:13
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In all honesty, I'd be very, very annoyed if the most interesting Drow deity-and the only credible male one- is given such an...ignominious end.
I was irritated enough with the end of WOTSQ. Hope this one doesn't disappoint |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 23:12:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
In all honesty, I'd be very, very annoyed if the most interesting Drow deity-and the only credible male one- is given such an...ignominious end.
I was irritated enough with the end of WOTSQ. Hope this one doesn't disappoint
Somewhat off-topic, but what do you mean by credible? I think I might understand how Ghaunadaur is, shall we say, an "odd one out" (hey, it's even one of his portfolios) - may I ask what you find not credible about Selvetarm? His backstory of angst-potential, or Lolth keeping him around this long, or what?
But I definitely second you so far as underwhelming ends. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 00:22:32
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I was talking about Vhaeraun, not Selvetarm. I thought the 'credible male' and 'interesting' were giveaways there. Selvetarm was about as interesting as dry ditchwater.
I'll be very, very upset if Vhaeraun's gone for good...one of the most interesting and compelling evil gods of the entire setting...offscreen? Please tell me it ain't so, Lisa... |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 00:38:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
I was talking about Vhaeraun, not Selvetarm. I thought the 'credible male' and 'interesting' were giveaways there. Selvetarm was about as interesting as dry ditchwater.
Yes, I got that you were probably talking about Vhaeraun. That's why I asked what you didn't find credible about Selvetarm. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 00:47:23
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| Selvetarm's kind of boring...he's just really there as Lolth's lapdog and doesn't have much personality |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 01:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Selvetarm's kind of boring...he's just really there as Lolth's lapdog and doesn't have much personality
Gotcha. On my part, I latched onto him mainly because of his angsty backstory. The handsome face and tortured voice as described in War of the Spider Queen helped.  But so far as depicted personality alone, Vhaeraun's does beat out his sprog's simple preoccupation with stabbity (or, variably, crushity) death.
I've posted a lengthier rant in the book club, but in short - yeah, if they've really both been snuffed in one go, particularly with that kind of finish... argh. Gods should not have the name of their favored weapon gaffed up in their last ever book. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 02:35:45
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| Let's think clearly...it's entirely possible Vhaeraun isn't gone yet. |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 02:45:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Let's think clearly...it's entirely possible Vhaeraun isn't gone yet.
I am thinking clearly (just as clearly as the guy who slugged back a gigantic mugful and is now insisting he's not drunk ).
It's entirely possible, yes, but the other possibility's still there and the "Silverflash" mixup still annoys me the more I think about it. It's not buried in a text block or anything - the pertinent information's right under "Domains" in his writeup, and it still managed to be wrong. It's entirely possible that he is dead, and in that case the metaphorical headstone's looking plain enough without metaphorical graffiti on it. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 05:59:11
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| Yes, that's true...however, the possibility he's dead is horribly idiotic, storywise...the way and dispatching of such an excellent God... |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 17:37:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Yes, that's true...however, the possibility he's dead is horribly idiotic, storywise...the way and dispatching of such an excellent God...
What's excellent about this spoilt brat?  Sneaking about mum and telling the world he sets the "order" among men and women "right" ... which in essence means that males dominate the clergy and females don't? I'd rather have a new outcast deity like Zinzerena dealing with females and males on an equal basis and providing some opposition to Lolthites, but in general is being more concerned with the surface et al. If Eilistraee and Vhaeraun left the Underdark drow to their own plots, they could have gone unmolested for aeons - Wizards permitting. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 17:53:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Yes, that's true...however, the possibility he's dead is horribly idiotic, storywise...the way and dispatching of such an excellent God...
What's excellent about this spoilt brat? Sneaking about mum and telling the world he sets the "order" among men and women "right" ... which in essence means that males dominate the clergy and females don't? I'd rather have a new outcast deity like Zinzerena dealing with females and males on an equal basis and providing some opposition to Lolthites, but in general is being more concerned with the surface et al. If Eilistraee and Vhaeraun left the Underdark drow to their own plots, they could have gone unmolested for aeons - Wizards permitting.
Well he clearly has his fans and his dogma does offer some good atibutes. The trickry though clearly makes him not fully trustworthy. There are some things the children agree on, return to the surface, aiding others (the son though limits aid to his followers) and more gender nuetral scoiety (not his fault that few females desire to become Clergy, the offer is there for them), etc. Of course there are differences between the choldren as well.
As for being involved in the underdark, both children have maney followers there and both children seek to weaken their mother. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 18:59:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
one wonders why it is the drow pantheon that gets soooo much attention.
I agree. The Dark Seldarine is small enough. I know from my days DM-ing drow-based games that most PC's don't worship Lolth. Many played with Selvetarm as their patron and even more played with Vhaeraun as their patron. The other question that comes to mind is why is that drow deities play the Peeekaboo game. One minute they grant spells, one minute they don't. Is this designed to reassure their worshippers that being alone in the dark is safe?
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Yes, that's true...however, the possibility he's dead is horribly idiotic, storywise...the way and dispatching of such an excellent God...
I think we all should get used to the fact that as buyers of these products only our money counts not our opinions. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 08 Feb 2007 19:04:16 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 19:15:07
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Cynicism aside. I have just placed an order for Sacrifice.. and also Ghostwalker. I'm buying Sacrifice mostly to keep up to date with the happenings of the Realms drow but I'm already fearing that I won't approve of the events the book will relate. (Although that isn't to besmirch the author's writing, which will probably be enjoyable.)
And it's about time I bought Ghostwalker. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 19:44:57
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Well, for one, he's more interesting than any of his family:
Lolth: Mwahahaha! I'm evil!!!! *Continue ad nauseum for 20 years*
Eilistraee: I'm so good! I want to help the Drow!....unless they're male. Then they can stay the hell out of any holy ceremonies. Now, go forth, priestesses and heedlessly slaughter everything even slightly unnatural! No, I don't care if it might be good, bring me the heads!
Selvetarm: *Gurgle* Serve Loth *Gurgle*
Vhaeraun has something not a one of these jokers has: Personality.
And cleverness. He actually manages to react to things in new ways, comes up with plans that tend to be pretty good, has a charming sense of ruthlessness and his followers tend to be....interesting. And considering he's managed to take Ched Nassad pretty completely and nearly killed his mom by tricking the WOTSQ adventurers, he's been pretty succesful in his endeavors |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 20:06:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Vhaeraun has something not a one of these jokers has: Personality.
Well, he's reckless and that got him killed.
I would wait 'til the end of the trilogy before coming up with any complaints. I'm convinced that we'll read of Vhaeraun again... |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Sacrifice of the Widow (Possible Spoilers)
