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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 08:09:24
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theres the mage/warrior PrC Suel Archanamach listed in one supplement which gives a plot hook of involving the background of this prc with netheril. i was wondering if anyone ahd used this prc in the realms and what culture they tied it to
for that matter has anyone played or dmed with a mage/fighter. if so what was the experience like and how did you balance out your powers. what was the history of your character.... and if it was in 3.0+ edition, what classes/ prcs were used??
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"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 10:57:22
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Call me kooky, but anything that is directly tied to Greyhawk I usually avoid converting to the Realms, mainly because it seems like there is a lot of material that is already setting neutral or Realms specific. Because if that, if I notice something specific in the title I tend to skip past it.
I think that Netheril/Suel connection is based on the idea that Netheril and the Suel were both cultures that were renowed for magic, but other than that, the Netherese were arrogant, but not quite the "racial purity" tyrants that the Suel were.
I'll give the class another look and see if anything springs to mind. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 16:26:31
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I had no idea that the class was so directly tied to Greyhawk. I didn't even think Greyhawk continued into 3rd Edition.
Either way, in the statblock it gives a blurb about SuelArchs in Faerun.
What I'm really going for here is trying to see the difference in how different cultures approached dual warrior/wizard heros (at least how the players have handled it). |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36964 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 17:46:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
I had no idea that the class was so directly tied to Greyhawk. I didn't even think Greyhawk continued into 3rd Edition.
Greyhawk is the default setting for 3.x D&D. That's why all non-setting specific PrCs and such that refer to deities refer to those of Oerth.
I have nothing to back this up, but personally, I think that Greyhawk becoming the default setting was part of the price for getting Gary Gygax back on board. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 18:30:29
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| did gygax go to wotc? i though he dropped when tsr fell apart |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36964 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 19:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
did gygax go to wotc? i though he dropped when tsr fell apart
It's my understanding that he was given the boot, and that it happened long before TSR collapsed.
I don't know if he has or had an active role at WotC, but I do remember them making a point of talking about getting him back when they relaunched 3.0, and for a while after that, he had a column in Dragon magazine... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 19:42:15
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hes done alot of 3+ edition work that ive seen at my local game store
but anyway this is all kinda offtopic and i dont know if i cant get away with it, even if it is with a mod. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 22:14:46
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| I found the class interesting, though I don't get a Netheril vibe from it. Perhaps empires like the Shoon (evil-ish empire with magely upperclass with a need for bodyguards), Imaskari (elite guard for the Sorcerer-Kings) Narfell (Anti-Raumathari Battlemages). A possible modern realm for them could be Thay, with the Arcanamach acting as personal anti-wizard guards for various Red Wizards. |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 22:16:23
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Hmmm...didn't he also have a cameo in the first (dare I mention this on a real D&D board....) D&D movie? He was one of the mages in the council.
However, back to the Greyhawk/Realms topic, I think it's an excellent choice, putting Greyhawk as a default. Simple reasoning: it keeps the Realms a little more specialized. In other words, Greyhawk has become so...scattered...that nobody recognizes it as true Greyhawk anymore. I would hate for that to happen to the Realms. The thought frightens me. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36964 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 01:37:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Silvanus79
Hmmm...didn't he also have a cameo in the first (dare I mention this on a real D&D board....) D&D movie? He was one of the mages in the council.
However, back to the Greyhawk/Realms topic, I think it's an excellent choice, putting Greyhawk as a default. Simple reasoning: it keeps the Realms a little more specialized. In other words, Greyhawk has become so...scattered...that nobody recognizes it as true Greyhawk anymore. I would hate for that to happen to the Realms. The thought frightens me.
Okay, my last off-topic post in this thread: I don't see why there has to be a default world, at all... 1E and 2E didn't have them. Really, the only part of Greyhawk that's used by default in the core rulebooks is the Greyhawk deities. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 02:44:21
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| I agree with Wooly. I see no need for a default world. And that would also encourage more rules-tinkering for specific worlds to better reflect their idiosyncrasies (a la books like Volo's Guide to All Things Magical). |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 03:01:58
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| I agree. If the Core rules played with general fantasy archetypes, the classes, prestige classes, feats, spells, etc. could possibly be more easily adapted to other settings. Which is what WotC is doing with the Core anyway, despite claims of it being Greyhawk. We also see setting specific ideas making their way into Core (Red Wizard, Archmage, Thayan Knight, spells from the Spell Compendium, the Eberron races in MMIII & Races of Eberron.) |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 04:17:48
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Rename the Suel Archanamach class to "Mage Killer" and you have the best replacement for the 3.0 Mage Killer class from Magic of Faerun.
3.0 Mage Killer never got an update to 3.5, so if you don't want to fuss and have an official, bonified 3.5 class that has been invented with the same goal in mind, go for Suel Archanamach (sp?)
If you ask me, I'd name the class Netherese Enforcer, and have these guys be the "police force" of Netheril (imagine a squad of ten of these fellows breaking into an outlaw Netherese archmage to bring him to justice... heck, I could even imagine the underworld movements of old Netheril recruiting these "ex-cops" for their anti-mage tactics; men with this training could quickly rise up to power with such revolutionary cells, seen as the 'voices of the people' and the non magic-using lower classes at the time... hmmm...) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 04:33:57
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Okay, reread the passage in question (cool of Rich to actually throw some Realms languages in there as examples). So the whole point is that its a warrrior/arcane combination that serves as an assasin/bodyguard for full blown wizards and it comes from an ancient society and thus has to be learned from an old source.
Personally, the first thing I thought of was Raumathar, since they were martial and warlike and wizards as well. You might even find a practicing master of the art in Almorel, since it was a city of Raumathar before it fell. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 07:21:13
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| Why I was thinking about this in general is not the fact that I love magic and wizards but a thread that dealt with the possibel resugence of a vyshaanti prince. He was described as a mage/fighter and I liked the idea of ancient elves in particular to haev that dual proficiency (especially based of the art of the crown war battles in LEoF, with the mage wielding a sword in a duel on the staircase) |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 13:56:40
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Well, from what I read, you could use this for the Vyshaan. I could picture the Ilythiiri or the Vyshaanti having this PrC floating around as well, and they are both "fallen" cultures, so the art would be all but lost in the modern day, having only a few practitioners. I could see it.
In fact, while the book mentions that this class is only learned from reading ancient texts, if it were an elven tradition, there could be a kiira that has the information needed to learn the information about this PrC in it. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 14:07:37
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Personally, the first thing I thought of was Raumathar, since they were martial and warlike and wizards as well. You might even find a practicing master of the art in Almorel, since it was a city of Raumathar before it fell.
that is what I thought too..."another warrior/wizard PrC"...like the spellblade, the Raumathar one, Eldrich Knight |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 15:20:30
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| I will use the vyshaan idea, too, being the most logical possible. The imaskar is a good option, too. The raumathari already has a PrC, so I will stay with this two options. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 15:36:22
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| I am so ignorant on the eastern parts of faerun. I really need to study the lore of mulhorand etc adn that whole east sea of fallen stars area. but the same thing goes for calimshan and the south. grr. anyway my point is i dont know that much about raumathar so where is this prc thats location specific to that? |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 15:56:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
I will use the vyshaan idea, too, being the most logical possible. The imaskar is a good option, too. The raumathari already has a PrC, so I will stay with this two options.
Yeah, the description reminded me of what might be in Raumathar, but for some reason the Raumathari Battlemage slipped my mind.
Beirnadri, the Raumathari Battlemage is in Unapproachable East, and information on the Ruamathar in general is in Lost Empires of Faerun, as well as scattered stuff in a lot of 2nd edition sources. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 16:00:01
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what I would like to see about Raumathar is their lore about constructs...somewhere I read it was Nar demons vs Raumathar battle magic and constructs...I had an image of the Brothers War in the Magic storyline...kinda like Urza vs Mishra...
I'm using that idea in my project  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 17:10:41
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Kalin, that info about raumathar constructs have a good grasp in me, too: if you have tha Fiend Folio, take a look in the Maugs (pages 121-123), an inteligent construct mercenary of Acheron. Citing the book: "Scholars... suspect that maugs first served as shock troops in an ancient war between two long-lost empires. In the end, one empire or both discovered some means of transporting the maugs to... the second layer of Acheron..."
This ring some little bells in my mind about Raumathar/Narfell war. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 17:13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Kalin, that info about raumathar constructs have a good grasp in me, too: if you have tha Fiend Folio, take a look in the Maugs (pages 121-123), an inteligent construct mercenary of Acheron. Citing the book: "Scholars... suspect that maugs first served as shock troops in an ancient war between two long-lost empires. In the end, one empire or both discovered some means of transporting the maugs to... the second layer of Acheron..."
This ring some little bells in my mind about Raumathar/Narfell war.
wow..I missed that...I'll need to look that up tonight...
though I know it is on the verge of heresy here   , I have been thinking of Eberron's warforged in the Realms...and the possibility of a Realmsian version of the worforged from the ancient past... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36964 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 17:56:13
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Kalin, that info about raumathar constructs have a good grasp in me, too: if you have tha Fiend Folio, take a look in the Maugs (pages 121-123), an inteligent construct mercenary of Acheron. Citing the book: "Scholars... suspect that maugs first served as shock troops in an ancient war between two long-lost empires. In the end, one empire or both discovered some means of transporting the maugs to... the second layer of Acheron..."
This ring some little bells in my mind about Raumathar/Narfell war.
wow..I missed that...I'll need to look that up tonight...
though I know it is on the verge of heresy here , I have been thinking of Eberron's warforged in the Realms...and the possibility of a Realmsian version of the worforged from the ancient past...
That thought has crossed my mind, too, and I believe the Sage pondered a similar thing. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Sep 2006 17:56:37 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 18:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That thought has crossed my mind, too, and I believe the Sage pondered a similar thing.
roughly, I am working on an idea that my Primians (human progenator/Creator race) had to resort to constructing great war machines/constructs and "invented" the warforged as the perfect warriors to battle the endless phaerimm mind-slave armies with the Sharn accross ruined Netheril (in that time no one has described after the Fall of Netheril and the raising of the Sharn Wall)
and that is copy righted for my Primian project!  (plan to submit the first section once Alaundo gets back ) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36964 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 19:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That thought has crossed my mind, too, and I believe the Sage pondered a similar thing.
roughly, I am working on an idea that my Primians (human progenator/Creator race) had to resort to constructing great war machines/constructs and "invented" the warforged as the perfect warriors to battle the endless phaerimm mind-slave armies with the Sharn accross ruined Netheril (in that time no one has described after the Fall of Netheril and the raising of the Sharn Wall)
and that is copy righted for my Primian project! (plan to submit the first section once Alaundo gets back )
My idea is much smaller in scale. My intent was to have just a small number of warforged in the Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2006 : 19:58:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My idea is much smaller in scale. My intent was to have just a small number of warforged in the Realms.
that is cool...I should have mentioned that after the Sharn Wall (ending the Phaerimm War) was raised the surviving warforged were put into stasis and have been there since
I used Xothol (the dwarven magic school of Ammarindar) as the point where the Primians and dwarves constructed the anti-phaerimm warmachine and where the warforged were “birthed”...thus why the dwarf magic school was closed and hidden afterwords
(still copy-righted! )
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12189 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 21:18:32
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| Hey, along these lines, anyone seen the Eberron prestige class which is similar to all these "eldritch Knights" and "spellswords" and "Raumathari Battlemages"? Someone mentioned it on some board one day, it was supposed to have stricter requirements, but it focused on a class that used spells to create their mounts (frack, I can't think of the spell name right now, but I want to say its around 3rd-5th lvl... they're incorporeal mounts.... sounds like night or something) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 21:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, along these lines, anyone seen the Eberron prestige class which is similar to all these "eldritch Knights" and "spellswords" and "Raumathari Battlemages"? Someone mentioned it on some board one day, it was supposed to have stricter requirements, but it focused on a class that used spells to create their mounts (frack, I can't think of the spell name right now, but I want to say its around 3rd-5th lvl... they're incorporeal mounts.... sounds like night or something)
I kinda know what you are talking about...Phantom Knight? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 16:02:40
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| Knight Phantoms if I'm remembering correctly. From the Five Nations sourcebook, a prestige class specific to the Kingdom of Aundair. I'll look it up but I think one of the main requirements was the ability to cast Phantom Steed. I remember thinking that it would make an interesting class for elven light cavalry/spellcasters. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12189 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 22:21:34
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| That was it. I need to hunt that down, as they were telling me it was a lot better balanced than say eldritch knight (which isn't necessarily a bad prestige class, but it could use some tighter restrictions... not that I'd disallow it, but it would make more interesting if it were more "specific"). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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suel archanamachs etc.
