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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
 Posted - 12 May 2006 : 09:24:24
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It's just too bad.
Now I really hope that "Mysteries of the Moonsea" will manage to provide regional information throughout the various modules. After all, the first "source books" of D&D were mostly modules and, through their content, they helped build up myth, stories and background. According to how well the stories are interwoven with the tissue of the Moonsea region and organisation it might be an alternate way to update the available regional info.
I still would have preferred a "proper" regional source book ą la Unnaproachable East, but let's see...
And now it's confirmed that Twilight Tomb will be about Star Elves!! Man, ami I excited...
Bocklin |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2006 : 11:45:47
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| I have to say I'm also disappointed, for me regional sourcebooks are something I will pick up without hesitation, while I need to be sold a bit more on other things. That said, I generally do pick up most FR products, but there has been a distinct lack of regional sourcebooks in the last two years. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2006 : 18:30:53
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Well,
That kinda blows. :( |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 03:03:21
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Well, WotC has to spread their designer dollar around as they are losing players of the game. Most people are turning to online for stories, which is why Eberron has become so much their baby. I could bore you with marketing talk of cows and stars, but I won't. :) Be cool, peeps.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 04:45:55
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Oh lighten up you babies! 
You can't possibly tell me that you've read all the published Realms material out there (even though I do not doubt that we are all true fans of the Realms here on these boards)
If you have, then finish Heroes of Battle or look at that DMG2. 
If you've done all of the above, go get an ice cream, or get a girlfriend... either way, you've got way too much time on your hands!   |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 07:00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Well, WotC has to spread their designer dollar around as they are losing players of the game. Most people are turning to online for stories, which is why Eberron has become so much their baby. I could bore you with marketing talk of cows and stars, but I won't. :) Be cool, peeps.
C-Fb
Actually I find it more likely that the FR suffered so Wizards could beat a couple of dead horses ie we lost our 4th Quarter book so Wizards could pump out Dragon Magic, Races of the Dragon and Complete Psionic, Complete Mage
I tell you something else Im seriously considering not buying ANY of Wizards Non FR source books until they start giving the FR the coverage it deserves. |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 07:32:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Well, WotC has to spread their designer dollar around as they are losing players of the game. Most people are turning to online for stories, which is why Eberron has become so much their baby. I could bore you with marketing talk of cows and stars, but I won't. :) Be cool, peeps.
C-Fb
Actually I find it more likely that the FR suffered so Wizards could beat a couple of dead horses ie we lost our 4th Quarter book so Wizards could pump out Dragon Magic, Races of the Dragon and Complete Psionic, Complete Mage
I tell you something else Im seriously considering not buying ANY of Wizards Non FR source books until they start giving the FR the coverage it deserves.
Seriously, I don't think FR is their stronghorse, just their trued and tried. And you know, with the Cons supporting Eberron and the MMO being Eberron, expect a lot more that way than anything else. It's almost looked at as if the Realms are old news, and everything else is new..
Not what I believe, just what I think Wizards sees.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 09:53:25
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Judging by what one can glean from Google's latest toy, the Realms still beats Eberron though. Just look here. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 11:21:23
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Perhaps it's just an experiment by WotC to see if they can generate more profits from FR products by staying away from the regional sourcebook model? Power of Faerun is a good example: a lot of the information in that would be useful in any game. Maybe the adventure format of Mysteries of the Moonsea has been utilised in the hope of selling copies to non-FR DMs? If successful, it would make business sense.
We don't want to get to the same situation as occurred with the release of the City of the Spider Queen: a product that didn't sell well enough so it spelt the end of D&D adventures for a few years, and not just FR adventures alone. Of course, one of the manifold problems with CotSQ was it was too intimately tied into an RSE that wasn't resolved until some three (or was it four?) years after the module was released. What non-FR DM is likely to let something like that into his non-FR game? And what non-FR DM is going to have a silent Lolth in his non-FR game? Actually, this FR DM now believes it was one of the more stupid ideas from WotC from a story perspective and, in some ways more importantly, from a business perspective as well.
While I would personally prefer to see regional sourcebooks come back (with a vengeance!), perhaps the business model needs some tinkering with to ensure that we have FR products in the future. It's like the novels (and not just the FR ones): let's face it, a lot of them were crap. However, without the earnings from the novels I am sure we wouldn't have D&D and FR today.
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Edited by - Eremite on 13 May 2006 18:03:27 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 12:27:31
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Seriously, I don't think FR is their stronghorse, just their trued and tried. And you know, with the Cons supporting Eberron and the MMO being Eberron, expect a lot more that way than anything else. It's almost looked at as if the Realms are old news, and everything else is new..
Not what I believe, just what I think Wizards sees.
C-Fb
Well Ill tell you what I believe
Wizards make products I want to buy or I wont buy Wizards products!
and Im sick to death of hearing how Realms products have to be written so they appeal to the Bloody homebrewers! 
I PLAY D&D because of the Forgotten Realms if Wizards arent supporting Forgotten Realms then why should I buy there Core books?
I was planning on buying (or at least looking at buying the following)
Complete Psionic
Players handbook 2
Fiendish Codex 1
Fiendish Codex 2
Now I will not be buying any of them |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Trace_Coburn
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
137 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 14:36:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well I'll tell you what I believe
Wizards: make products I want to buy, or I won't buy Wizards products!
And I'm sick to death of hearing how Realms products have to be written so they appeal to the bloody homebrewers!
I PLAY D&D because of the Forgotten Realms; if Wizards aren't supporting Forgotten Realms, then why should I buy their core books?
If the scuttlebutt I hear is correct, it's not really up to Wizards what they write/release or not - they have to release whole series of books to 'guarantee' certain sales figures, and the people demanding those guaranteed sales are *not* the ones you might first assume.
You essentially say "If WotC won't sell me FR content, I won't buy core books". I can understand that attitude, from a certain standpoint, at least, and I even share it a little... but as much as I hate to sound like an industry shill, the way I understand the workings of the matter is: "If customers won't buy core books, WotC *can't* offer them FR content." (Not 'won't' - 'can't'. They just won't have the cash to keep it going; you'd be surprised how thin the profit margins for the game-makers actually are, if what I hear is true....) Catch-22's suck, Dargoth - but that doesn't make them any less real.
Speaking for myself, I too find the lack of FR content disappointing, and none of the four products you list make me jump around and scream in delight. That said, were I to come across it with sufficient cash in my pocket, I'd certainly give strong consideration to picking up a copy of PHB2, because of the four items you list it seems the most useful to me - and because buying it would help WotC stay in the game (so to speak), perhaps long enough to put out something I can say "Woo-hoo!" about and buy in triplicate, rather than picking up a single copy of something that makes me say "Well, that'll do for now."
Your mileage will probably vary. [shrug] |
D&D collection: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual I, Complete Arcane, Arms & Equipment Guide.
FR sourcebook collection: Dragons of Faerūn, Faiths & Pantheons, FRCS, Lords of Darkness, Monsters of Faerūn, Player's Guide to Faerūn, Power of Faerūn, Races of Faerūn, Silver Marches.
I just got back into this, okay? Give me time (or better yet money) - I'll catch up soon enough.  |
Edited by - Trace_Coburn on 13 May 2006 14:39:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 15:01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Judging by what one can glean from Google's latest toy, the Realms still beats Eberron though. Just look here.
'Tis an interesting graph... I'm wondering about that huge spike in FR searches at the end of '04. I'm also wishing they provided actual numbers...
I'm also surprised that Eber-whatsit gets less attention than D&D as a whole. I would have expected that to be reversed.
Edit: Huh. I just did the same search, except I put Greyhawk in there, instead of D&D. Greyhawk's numbers have been higher or roughly equal to that of Eber-whatsit, ever since that latter setting came out. That's really interesting, considering that one setting is getting a lot of support, and the other is a non-supported (in that they don't get setting-specific material) default setting... Though Eber-whatsit seems to be going strong right now, it does make me wonder about that setting's future. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 May 2006 15:07:51 |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 18:00:10
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What happened at the end of 2004? That was a huge spike.
It seems FR is dipping a bit compared to regular D&D, but still above Eberron. Interesting, what's been happening in regular D&D compared to settings?
If FR isn't going to get support I do hope WotC peacefully extracts their hands from it, and then Ed can shop it around to other publishers. |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 18:08:11
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What you forget Dargoth is that WotC has to make money and appealing to the (quote) bloody homebrewers (unquote) allows them to do that. Remember too that the RPG business really is a joke from a business point-of-view: it's basically a glorified hobby with bugger all profits. I would rather that WotC took steps to generate the profits that ensure we keep getting some sort of FR products that go back to the days of TSR's gross mismanagement and potentially lose D&D and FR completely (or be left with novels only).
And, mate, you really do take it personally, don't you? Lighten up, eh! ;)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 18:13:12
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Hey, folks, let's look at it this way: at least this way, we can save some cash for Christmas and for 2007 first quarter stuff! 
And truly, while I do regret the lack of Realms books for that timespan, the money point is a good one. And while none of us are happy about it, there's not much point in wasting our (virtual) breath here arguing about it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 18:18:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hey, folks, let's look at it this way: at least this way, we can save some cash for Christmas and for 2007 first quarter stuff!
haha. Silly Wooly...it may not be D&D, and it may not be Realmsian, but there's plenty of other addictions out there...Gaming: The Hypercrack! |
Edited by - Arivia on 13 May 2006 18:19:33 |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2006 : 18:39:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Judging by what one can glean from Google's latest toy, the Realms still beats Eberron though. Just look here.
Interesting graph, but it provides very different results if you replace "&" by "and". So "Dungeons and Dragons" is well above forgotten realms.
Bocklin |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 04:30:57
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Hello-
As Bocklin mentioned - there is a difference between '&' and 'and'.
So - I put Both in - and added Greyhawk! (interesting tool to be sure!)
Here is the results:
Four Comparisons
Sorry for the long link - I've never learned the art of shortening and changing their look! :)
Anyway I would add that I tend to buy a lot more than I will use. But - if that in some way helps keep getting FR specific stuff - thats OK by me!
Curiously - we have 3 non-regional books out/due out this year - how many and of what types did we have last year? From their standpoint - its still 3 books. Perhaps - as it has been suggested - they are trying out other formats. Time will tell, I suppose.
EDIT: Fixed link - and I feel all computer-knowledgey and stuff now! LOL Thanks Arivia!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
Edited by - Dhomal on 15 May 2006 04:52:34 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 04:33:59
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Dhomal, enclose your link like the following, removing the spaces after the first one or two characters, of course:
[ url="place url here"]Text to appear[/ url]
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Edited by - Arivia on 15 May 2006 04:34:43 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2006 : 10:56:21
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Quite so, and GURPS is above Eberron 
And Warhammer dwarves them all!
Warhammer
St***d miniature/online game... ;-)
Bocklin |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 02:50:03
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| Stop derailing my thread! |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 03:02:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Stop derailing my thread!
Chocolate factory! O_O   
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 04:39:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Stop derailing my thread!
Chocolate factory! O_O
Ive got a Shocking Morning Star and Im not afraid to use it! |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 06:52:41
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Sure, Dargoth. Back to topic.
There is no FR product in the fourth quarter (booh!), apart from an adventure on the Star Elves (yuhu!!).
What's the best we can do about it?
Maybe, as you suggest, boycott other products until WotC realize they have better profits and better sales with the FR. But for that to have sufficient impact you need to create sufficient momentum and following so that they actually feel that it hits them.
Alternatively/additionally, we could go ask Rich Baker why that is so and try to make him feel bad about it. I am sure that he would help us understand the situation and might even have advices as to how to efficiently advocate for more FR products.
Also, those going to Cons could hog the floor of WotC seminars and consistently and repeatedly ask for more FR stuff and question why there is no 4th quarter product this year. Careful not to start a LARP skirmish with the Eberonites!
Bocklin |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 08:00:37
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| It could be that there's some big product for next year that took its "spot". Something for the 20th/40th anniversery perhaps? |
Edited by - BobROE on 16 May 2006 16:58:01 |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2006 : 10:03:18
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Hi Dargoth,
I felt so bad about derailing your thread (and was maybe a bit afraid of your Shocking Morningstar), so I put the question to Rich over at WotC. I wonder if he will reply. It would be good to see how he or WotC sees the situation.
Bocklin |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2006 : 02:34:51
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| Something I just thought of: perhaps the planned Ravenloft product for this year is taking the fourth Realms product's spot? |
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4th Quarter WOTC titles listed: NO REALMS BOOKS!
