Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Divine Ascension
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Adam_Garou
Acolyte

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  14:11:35  Show Profile  Visit Adam_Garou's Homepage Send Adam_Garou a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
This may not be the appropriate forum, but I thought it made a little more sense here than the Sages boards. If I'm wrong, apologies from the start.

On a recent trip to a used bookstore, I acquired hard-copies of the 2e supplements "Faiths and Avatars" and "Powers and Pantheons". Both of these tomes mention instances in which a mortal was elevated to godhood, and took on those responsibilities:

*Cyric - basically granted divinity by Ao and given charge of the portfolios of the then-dead gods Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul ("strife" & "hatred", "murder", "death and the dead"). He later killed Leira and took "illusion/deception" into his portfolio, and some source states that he managed to somehow steal "intrigue" from Mask as well. He also (apparently entirely on his own) came to oversee "lies" as well, although that may be a subset of Leira's portfolio.

*Kelemvor - somehow the legions of the dead whom Cyric had mistreated all "voted" to make him the new God of the Dead, and Ao "ratified" the results. So, Kelemvor effectively ripped away "death and the dead" from Cyric's portfolio.

*Azuth - began life as a mortal mage, served as Mystra's Magister, and was apparently elevated to godhood by Mystra because her responsibility was the Weave itself and she required another to oversee those who USE the Weave.

*Velsharoon - found some mystic ritual written by Talos to ascend to divinity.

And on and on it goes. But here are the questions I have, and I'm hoping some scribes can provide some info on this:

*Other than by killing a deity and somehow "absorbing" its power (a la Cyric with Bhaal and Leira or Finder Wyvernspur with Moander), what are some ways in which mortals ascend to godhood? Most commonly it would seem that they are "sponsored" by an existing god to become demipowers and oversee specific sub-elements of that god's portfolio (like the Red Knight overseeing the strategy-and-tactics aspect of war for Tempus, or Uthgar becoming divine to oversee the warriors of the Uthgardt barbarians whom Tempus favored). But are there other ways? And does having a lesser power or demipower oversee certain aspects of one's portfolio diminish the greater god's power (i.e., is Tempus' dominion over war somehow weakened by the worship the Red Knight draws as the Lady of Strategy)? If so, why would they do it?

*Once divine, how do portfolios change hands? For example, how did Cyric steal "intrigue" from Mask? How did Bane attempt to seize "war" from Tempus (which is why he is not allowed weapon specialization according to "Faiths and Avatars")? How did Talos attempt to steal "wild magic" from Mystra?

I know that these situations are left vague, because we ARE talking about gods here--things we puny mortals will never fully understand. Nonetheless, I'm curious... after all, as DMs, we are sort of the "Aos" of our individual campaigns, and even if the topic never comes up in a game discussion I'd still like to know your thoughts.

To clarify where I'm coming from, I HAVE read the 2e supplements I mentioned above, along with SHADOWDALE, TANTRAS, WATERDEEP, PRINCE OF LIES, and CRUCIBLE: THE TRIAL OF CYRIC THE MAD. Nonetheless, I still haven't found the answers I'm looking for. Hope you can help.

"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."

--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS--

Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  15:01:00  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Bane's Homepage Send Chosen of Bane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately I cannot answer all of your questions but I can tell you how Cyric "stole" a portfolio from Mask.

When Cyric found out that his sword, Godsbane, was actually Mask in disguise he broke the sword in half, greatly weakening Mask. I am under the impression that when he broke the sword and weakened Mask he absorbed a portion of Mask's divinity...Intrigue.

It's been a while since I've read it but I'm pretty sure that's how it worked out.

And as to how portfolios change hands... I'm not sure about the other ways but one sure fire way to steal a deities portfolio is to kill the deity. To my knowledge, any time one deity kills another deity than the victor assumes the portfolios of the slain.
Go to Top of Page

Adam_Garou
Acolyte

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  16:06:43  Show Profile  Visit Adam_Garou's Homepage Send Adam_Garou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
And as to how portfolios change hands... I'm not sure about the other ways but one sure fire way to steal a deities portfolio is to kill the deity. To my knowledge, any time one deity kills another deity than the victor assumes the portfolios of the slain.



This makes sense, as there is speculation in POWERS AND PANTHEONS as to why Tempus, "who killed a number of gods" on his way to becoming the God of War, left Garagos the Reaver alive. The explanation offered is that were Tempus to slay Garagos, he (Tempus) would be obligated to take on the "berserking rage" and "mindless destruction" aspects of Garagos' portfolio--and that Tempus prefers not to do so.

But are there any other ways for a power to take on the portfolio (or certain elements of it) from another god?

And, speaking of Mask, is it recorded anywhere precisely how he took "shadows" into his portfolio? I think FAITHS AND AVATARS mentions a "year of fanatical activity by his priests", but what kind of activity? Just proclaiming to everyone they meet that Mask is Lord of Shadows even though Shar still has dominion over "night" and "darkness"? Somehow, it doesn't seem like it should be that simple to me.

"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."

--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS--
Go to Top of Page

GungHo
Seeker

USA
68 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  20:12:21  Show Profile  Visit GungHo's Homepage Send GungHo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jergal willingly turned over a large portion of his portfolio to Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, who were at one time mortals. To get there, they more or less raised hell on Faerun, then raised hell on the planes, and more or less "Yae Ar Kung-Fu" fought all the way to Jergal, who was apparently ready to give them what they wanted. The story of their apotheosis is vague as to whether or not they'd already achieved some form of divinity when Jergal handed the portfolios over.

Portfolios also seem to change hands as old gods die off/are forgotten and new gods emerge in their place (Aumanator -> Lathander), though some speculation is made as to whether or not these "new" gods are just reinventions of the old gods or are truely new entities.

There's also growing concern where you have two pantheons where two gods hold the same basic portfolio/role (Kelemvor & Osiris)... what will happen if/when the pantheons merge?

It's also been shown that sometimes one deity impersonating another in a different realm seems to steal that deity's "belief" powers (e.g. Shaundakul (sp?)). Who knows what long term effect that may have on the original deity.
Go to Top of Page

Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1176 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  20:23:44  Show Profile  Visit Kaladorm's Homepage Send Kaladorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adam_Garou

quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
And as to how portfolios change hands... I'm not sure about the other ways but one sure fire way to steal a deities portfolio is to kill the deity. To my knowledge, any time one deity kills another deity than the victor assumes the portfolios of the slain.



This makes sense, as there is speculation in POWERS AND PANTHEONS as to why Tempus, "who killed a number of gods" on his way to becoming the God of War, left Garagos the Reaver alive. The explanation offered is that were Tempus to slay Garagos, he (Tempus) would be obligated to take on the "berserking rage" and "mindless destruction" aspects of Garagos' portfolio--and that Tempus prefers not to do so.

But are there any other ways for a power to take on the portfolio (or certain elements of it) from another god?

And, speaking of Mask, is it recorded anywhere precisely how he took "shadows" into his portfolio? I think FAITHS AND AVATARS mentions a "year of fanatical activity by his priests", but what kind of activity? Just proclaiming to everyone they meet that Mask is Lord of Shadows even though Shar still has dominion over "night" and "darkness"? Somehow, it doesn't seem like it should be that simple to me.



For philosophical musings on the differences between shadows and darkness you should read the things Melegaunt has to say :D
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  20:46:59  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the biggest way is get a divinity as a sponsor and be godlike in one's behavior.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

Denoples
Acolyte

39 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  22:46:35  Show Profile  Visit Denoples's Homepage Send Denoples a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems to me that the way to divinity would be to get people to worship you. Be famous, have temples build and claim a portfolio.

I guess another way is when a deity selects one of his champions to be her/his demi-god agent/helper/assistant.

Of course in theory there are other possibilities. Kill a God. Get godhood granted by Ao.

Being godlike in one's behavior? What do you mean by this?
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2006 :  23:06:01  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well...what you just said.

Claim to be divine.

Display miraculous abilities (high level and all that) etc.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2006 :  00:39:02  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Well...what you just said.

Claim to be divine.

Display miraculous abilities (high level and all that) etc.



Why then did Velsharoon go through with the seven rituals, if all it takes is pretending to be a god, and lording over peasants?

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2006 :  04:24:24  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well he was intended to be a snack for Talos.

He's not terribly smart.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1618 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2006 :  05:55:34  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Denoples

It seems to me that the way to divinity would be to get people to worship you. Be famous, have temples build and claim a portfolio.

I guess another way is when a deity selects one of his champions to be her/his demi-god agent/helper/assistant.

Of course in theory there are other possibilities. Kill a God. Get godhood granted by Ao.

Being godlike in one's behavior? What do you mean by this?




yes and no. Yes by being popular would be a way to increase or at least sustain a god/ goddess's stature. No by having a champion. My example, would be look at Malik the seraph of lies, he is the "champion" of cyric, but will it save him in the end, I think not. Regardless of a person, sect, or whatever, According to Ao's mandate after the time of troubles, a god's stature, existance, or whatever, would evolve from how many worshippers he/ she had. This alleviated the issue of having so many mortals act as pawns on the god's/ goddess's chesboard so to speak.

Edited by - scererar on 25 Mar 2006 05:57:06
Go to Top of Page

Adam_Garou
Acolyte

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2006 :  15:13:15  Show Profile  Visit Adam_Garou's Homepage Send Adam_Garou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Kaladorm, for pointing me toward Melegaunt's statements about the difference between darkness and shadows. Very interesting, and a distinction I hadn't really considered.

That being said, I guess I'm still looking for details on how you all think a mortal might become divine in the Realms, or how an already divine being might steal elements of another's portfolio. Or, like Mask, taking shadows into his portfolio if no one else currently held dominion over them.

What are some of the specific ways a god might do this? Can one deity simply choose to grant another a certain aspect of his own portfolio he's not "interested in" (which I'm assuming is something like Tempus did--being CN, I think he preferred having the Red Knight oversee strategy and tactics and "report" to him, rather than bearing the responsibility of governing strategy directly; that way, he still had some oversight, but less responsibility). Thoughts on this?

"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."

--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS--
Go to Top of Page

Arlenion
Acolyte

36 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2006 :  19:33:20  Show Profile  Visit Arlenion's Homepage Send Arlenion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps the theft and acquisition of portfolios lies in being thought of as having it. If Cyric calls himself Prince of Lies and everyone thinks of him as being the god of lies, he gains that portfolio. If people stop thinking of him as such he might, over time, lose that portfolio.
Go to Top of Page

Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2006 :  23:28:27  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Well he was intended to be a snack for Talos.

He's not terribly smart.




Velsharoon not terribly smart?

And where is this information published?

If all it takes to ascend to godhood is "playing" at being a god, and forcing some poor peasants to worship you, how come we don't have more deities in the Realms? Any high-level evil character or NPC could then accomplish this, and there would probably be hundreds of drow deities then

I seem to recall that you had to fulfill Quests (with a capital Q ;) back in the days of the original D&D, if your high-level character wanted to become an Immortal.

I also seem to recall that ALL mortals who have ascended into deities in published Realmslore have had a divine sponsor, and in addition to this, have also completed near-mythical quests to reach that ultimate goal. Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul slew a minor/quasi deity called Borem, before confronting Jergal in his throne room.

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2006 :  00:43:17  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Listen, Velsharoon has ticked off Talos and is about to betray Mystra to Shar whom has a history of eating her allies.

Oh yes and he can't get anyone in Thay to worship him.

Plus, people have Orcust to worship for an evil necromancy god.

So yeah, he's dumb as a post ;-)

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

Adam_Garou
Acolyte

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2006 :  21:02:30  Show Profile  Visit Adam_Garou's Homepage Send Adam_Garou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Listen, Velsharoon has ticked off Talos and is about to betray Mystra to Shar whom has a history of eating her allies.

Oh yes and he can't get anyone in Thay to worship him.

Plus, people have Orcust to worship for an evil necromancy god.

So yeah, he's dumb as a post ;-)




Um... maybe. The guy was smart enough to realize that Talos was making him burn up all his newly-acquired divine energy like there was literally no tomorrow and managed to play Azuth and Talos off each other to keep himself "safe" while he hatched his own plots and plans. I wouldn't call that "dumb", although luck or Ao's oversight might have contributed to it.

Why can't he get anyone in Thay to worship him? Just because Szass Tam knew him when they were younger? The whole "familiarity breeds contempt" thing?

Maybe people are able to worship Orcus if they're into the whole "evil necromancy" thing, but POWERS AND PANTHEONS speculates (IIRC) that Ao may have allowed Velsharoon to obtain and maintain his deity status to balance out the fact that Kelemvor and Jergal really hate undead. From that, I would assume that Velsharoon's still more likely to draw human necromancer-worshipers than Orcus... if for no other reason than however twisted a lich-god's mind might be, it couldn't be worse than that of a demon-undead-god.

Although, it's hard to see how a single demipower's support of the undead state balances out the dislike of a greater power plus a demipower-who-was-formerly-the-greatest-power-this-side-of-Ao. Guess that's another of those great mysteries.

"If we do happen to make contact (with the enemy), I expect nothing less than gratuitous violence from the lot of you."

--Sgt. Harry Wells, DOG SOLDIERS--
Go to Top of Page

GungHo
Seeker

USA
68 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2006 :  22:42:47  Show Profile  Visit GungHo's Homepage Send GungHo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Well...what you just said.

Claim to be divine.

Display miraculous abilities (high level and all that) etc.


Worked for a certain red dragon.
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2006 :  23:34:45  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Although, it's hard to see how a single demipower's support of the undead state balances out the dislike of a greater power plus a demipower-who-was-formerly-the-greatest-power-this-side-of-Ao. Guess that's another of those great mysteries.


Well undead aren't exactly that prevalent, besides Orcus is a Lesser Power (or was he even Intermediate in Powers and Pantheons?)

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2006 :  23:40:51  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

quote:
Although, it's hard to see how a single demipower's support of the undead state balances out the dislike of a greater power plus a demipower-who-was-formerly-the-greatest-power-this-side-of-Ao. Guess that's another of those great mysteries.


Well undead aren't exactly that prevalent, besides Orcus is a Lesser Power (or was he even Intermediate in Powers and Pantheons?)




Actually, he's neither any more. Current FR lore states that he isn't a deity at all.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2006 :  23:48:11  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really, so P&P has been overwritten? Where?

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  00:07:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Really, so P&P has been overwritten? Where?




I believe it was the Player's Guide to Faerūn that nixed his deific status...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  00:22:06  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well there was certainly a runaround with that huh.

Well thanks for the info Wooley, that changes a lot for my campaign. I admit, I think its a good decision.

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  04:10:10  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Really, so P&P has been overwritten? Where?




I believe it was the Player's Guide to Faerūn that nixed his deific status...



Yes, that's it. :) Since it says there are no deities in the Abyss and Orcus resides in the Abyss, thus he can't be a deity and be in the Abyss. :) Champions of Evil, or whatever it is, also has such info. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore

1425 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  04:11:27  Show Profile  Visit Charles Phipps's Homepage Send Charles Phipps a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well it's a bit of a Yo-Yo like effect honestly but I think it makes sense.

Does anyone think that Velsharoon is sponsoring his cult or is it just the odd case of worshippers of a Demon-Prince may outnumber that of a Lich King Deity?

My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31773 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  05:50:59  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Really, so P&P has been overwritten? Where?




I believe it was the Player's Guide to Faerūn that nixed his deific status...



Yes, that's it. :) Since it says there are no deities in the Abyss and Orcus resides in the Abyss, thus he can't be a deity and be in the Abyss. :) Champions of Evil, or whatever it is, also has such info. :)

Champions of Ruin .

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  07:26:00  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GungHo

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Well...what you just said.

Claim to be divine.

Display miraculous abilities (high level and all that) etc.


Worked for a certain red dragon.



You are right Tchazzar indeed accomplished this. But it would take the worship of a large kingdom to ascend to divinity, and I think Ao has the final word here. Otherwise there would probably be a lot of high-level-wizards-turned-gods in the Realms (such as two archmages in the Border Kingdoms ). Maybe Ao felt that Chessenta needed a hero deity of its own?

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
Go to Top of Page

Vainelus
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2006 :  18:05:31  Show Profile  Visit Vainelus's Homepage Send Vainelus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Didn't Tiamat eat Tchazzar shortly after he became a God? and then she took his form and portfolio whenever appearing in or around Chessenta? I might be getting my deities mixed up, but I do not remember Tchazzar actually being a god for very long.
Go to Top of Page

khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1073 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2006 :  09:30:48  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage Send khorne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vainelus

Didn't Tiamat eat Tchazzar shortly after he became a God? and then she took his form and portfolio whenever appearing in or around Chessenta? I might be getting my deities mixed up, but I do not remember Tchazzar actually being a god for very long.

Correct. He got beaten and eaten, and Tiamat began impersonating him.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
Go to Top of Page

Feanor
Learned Scribe

100 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2006 :  13:13:37  Show Profile Send Feanor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some questions I have :

1. If someone slays a deity/absorb his divine essence, but he does not want to ascend, can godhood be forced upon him ? Since, in the end, it comes down to Ao, I recall that he did not want to grant godhood to someone who was not willing to accept it.

2. In what book is Velsharoon's ascension described ?
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2006 :  14:32:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Feanor

Some questions I have :

1. If someone slays a deity/absorb his divine essence, but he does not want to ascend, can godhood be forced upon him ? Since, in the end, it comes down to Ao, I recall that he did not want to grant godhood to someone who was not willing to accept it.

2. In what book is Velsharoon's ascension described ?



1). Ao likely wouldn't, but he could force godhood on anyone. However, he'd more likely either elevate another willing and worthy person, or pass out the portfolios among the appropriate deities, or the portfolio would be up for grabs.

2) The 2nd of the trilogy of 2E deity books, Powers & Pantheons, lists Velly’s history. (The other two books in that wonderful trilogy are Faiths & Avatars, and Demihuman Deities. The more recent 3E Faiths & Pantheons is but a pale shadow of the deity trilogy.)

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2006 :  16:16:06  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

2) The 2nd of the trilogy of 2E deity books, Powers & Pantheons, lists Velly’s history. (The other two books in that wonderful trilogy are Faiths & Avatars, and Demihuman Deities. The more recent 3E Faiths & Pantheons is but a pale shadow of the deity trilogy.)



I'll add, it was first mentioned that he was working/wanted to become a deity in Hall of the High King in the back of the book in the adventure hooks section. :) It also lists his mortal stats.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000