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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 00:29:53
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Well Lords of Darkness I can imagine is an example of intrigue at its height. I'd strangely just forgotten that supplement.
For me, its an interpretation of DM's preferences that influence one's viewpoint. For me, the presence of so many huge world-changing NPCs and artifacts in Forgotten Realms tells me that its okay to swagger in High-Powered, Overthetop style where it might not be necessarily the case in other lands. If you tried to be the son of Paladine raised by a secret order of monks and find a ancient broadsword that is known as "Godslayer" in Dragonlance then they'd probably think that you're missing seriously the point of the setting whereas its far more appropriate in FR.
For me, Cadderly is an example of a good PC to a large extent in that essentially the DM gives the players permission to join the ranks of the demigods of Toril so to speak and truck with gods on an equal level.
(Strangely, I don't mean as 30th level Paladin/Ninjas or Epic levels necessarily but for whatever reason...the Gods consider you personally interesting enough to talk to. Or at the very least Kings and queens or Sages like El.)
While its a overused statement, I liked the idea of the Avatar Trilogy more than I liked the execution. For me, the Time of Troubles allowed the players to make friendships with gods directly and also lay them low while the modules of the period also give me the idea of how players should be allowed to effect things in the Realms. I don't restrict players in my games to simply "You can fight a Death Knight at X level" but more prefer to run games where the players are deeply overpowered by what they encounter and instead have to outsmart them.
You don't need to be 30th level yourself to be invited to sup at their table I suppose is my opinion.
but what gets me is that from what I get form other fans is that people don't seem to share my view. In Eberron, they attempt to keep the highest levels around 12th or so for the most part so that PCs are level wise probably going to be amongst the strongest folk out there. While this certainly strikes me as a rules-based method of making sure the players feel important, I always have thought that it was the DM's job to make players feel important no matter what their level. Even 1st level nobodies should be able to have adventures where they may end up saving a princess in my time. It's a just a matter of knowing to pick your fights clearer.
[FYI- The first adventure I ever ran was low on combat, high on scenery where Elminster sent them to steal a Sceptre that can control Dragons and change the balance of power in the Realms. Elminster gave them a few magical items that could nullify magic and protect them from runes of warding even as they used old fashioned disguise plots and the like to get into Manshoon's quarters]
Even if I thought Kelemvor was a twit, Midnight was a witch, Adon was unlikeable, and Cyric the only interesting one of the lot. These people were clearly not future gods as people thought of them and while the writing was bad for them.....it was a good concept the Realms unknowingly ended up depending on them.
(Not that I think that such things as the Avatar Crisis should be repeated on their scale---its clearly a one time thing for even me)
It's why I have difficulty fathoming people hating Elminster. They tend to think he exists to do their job in saving the world for them. For me, Elminster exists primarily to do the Merlin treatment and help the players achieve their full potential. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 28 Mar 2006 00:37:09 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 01:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
As for changing the world, I think a hero should also have one thing that they 'change' tacked onto them.
You make it sound like a formula where certain components must be added in order for the result to equal "hero."
quote:
1. Drizzt Do'urden has inspired many Eilistraee converts to come out of almost total and complete isolation to try and forge an identity seperate from their fellows. It often has many tragedies but as a real consequence of Drizzt's actions, the 'Drow! Kill!' reaction is slowly changing.
Likewise, many Drow beneath the ground have heard of his life as an alternative.
A bit optimistic, I think, and rather unrealistically so. I'm pretty sure there are more drow who raid random human villages (remember the invasion of Scornubel in Silverfall?) and the like than there are Elistraeens or drow interested in the "alternative lifestyle." And there're always the Vhaerun-worshiping drow.
quote:
2. Arilyn Moonblade might have serious impacted Half-Elf/Elven relations and slowly but surely are many of the sacred ways being taught to half-elves instead of just to 'purebloods' while resistance to them is becoming hardened but also less widespread.
I... really don't think so. She's well-known to certain circles of people, but I bet most elves on Evermeet don't even know she exists.
quote:
Arilyn might eventually be accepted as a full princess of the realms.
And Cyric will join hands with Mystra to sing "Can't we all get aloooong." |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 01:05:49
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quote:
You make it sound like a formula where certain components must be added in order for the result to equal "hero."
Oh hardly, but I know what I like and what I wouldn't mind seeing WF. There's plenty of alternatives to what I like as I've mentioned and nothing wrong with said alternatives but if you asked 'what would *I* like to see about now?' it'd be this.
Too many books seem to exist in a vacuum.
Plus, Heroes take what can't be changed and shove it down societies throats.
;-)
For me, I don't much care for the whole "I am poor and pitiful Arilyn Moonblade, disgraced and loathed" meme. Ditto Drizzt, I have more faith in humanity (or elfanity) and think that it might be cool for both to meet people who accept them as champions and have been changed by their presence.
quote:
And Cyric will join hands with Mystra to sing "Can't we all get aloooong."
I liked Midnight/Cyric in the Avatar books.
Hehehehe.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 28 Mar 2006 01:08:22 |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 03:03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I mentioned BLACKSTAFF, BTW, because it IS that "book about Khel" you were expecting.
It is definitely the book that I've been waiting for. For years now, my players have been working for the moonstars without knowing it. They've never met Khelban and have no clue the moonstars even exist as an organization. I've been excited about this book since hearing of its impending release.
So far we've seen Khelban in guest appearances (Elaine's books for example) or reacting to outside situations as they've demanded (the return of Shade for example), but not had a chance to get inside his head regarding his plans for the future of Faerun.
As to Mr. Phipps, I'm quite content with the many heroes who do amazingly heroic things just to keep the status quo -- without it being celebrated in song. This has been a standard in pulp fiction, it works well in a shared world, and there's also something I find especially heroic in those folks willing to do the right thing for the right reasons. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 03:28:56
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quote:
As to Mr. Phipps, I'm quite content with the many heroes who do amazingly heroic things just to keep the status quo -- without it being celebrated in song. This has been a standard in pulp fiction, it works well in a shared world, and there's also something I find especially heroic in those folks willing to do the right thing for the right reasons.
Well while I find that there's something noble about unknown heroes too, I think it fits better mythic adventure to have heroes known for their deeds.
Also, I don't think that you really want to preserve the status quo in Forgotten Realms. The status quo in the Realms is a monster ridden land of chaos, disorder, insanity, and ancient evils lying just under the surface of every corner. It's a place ravaged by evil wizards and merciless warlords. It's not like comic book land where the barbarians are at the gate, the barbarians have taken the gate and burned the town down long ago.
I don't think there's so few evils in the land that we couldn't do for a few changes here and there.
In Arilyn and Drizzt's case, you could just say some changes to canon (Arcane Archer and Bladesinger being open to half-elves) and so on are actually the result of their activity or the increase prominence of dark elves in the surface world.
I hear what you're saying, I just am throwing out what I think.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 28 Mar 2006 03:29:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 04:50:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
For me, I don't much care for the whole "I am poor and pitiful Arilyn Moonblade, disgraced and loathed" meme.
Uh... Have you read any of the Songs & Swords books? Arilyn's attitude was nothing like that... She's very much someone who doesn't care what other people think. She certainly never thought of herself in terms even approaching "poor and pitiful" or "disgraced and loathed".
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
[quote]In Arilyn and Drizzt's case, you could just say some changes to canon (Arcane Archer and Bladesinger being open to half-elves) and so on are actually the result of their activity or the increase prominence of dark elves in the surface world.
Uh... Since when has Arilyn had a single thing to do with drow? And her actions have never been about half-elves, nor had they had any real benefit for half-elves. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 05:28:27
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1. I know. Her independence however actually works better when contrasted with the acceptance of her society.
(one of the best scenes of the book is when the Queen changes Arilyn's last name to Moonflower in the geneology).
2. I'm referring to Drizzt when I reference drow or do you think Drizzt might benefit half-elves? (joke)
3. Why SHOULDN'T Arilyn have any effect on half-elf/human relations. Her heroism and service to the elves should have a HUGE affect I think Mr. Mod man. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 07:11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
(one of the best scenes of the book is when the Queen changes Arilyn's last name to Moonflower in the geneology).
That was Curreigh Macumail that did that, not Amlaruil...
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
3. Why SHOULDN'T Arilyn have any effect on half-elf/human relations. Her heroism and service to the elves should have a HUGE affect I think Mr. Mod man.
It should. But most elves haven't heard of her. And half-elves are not readily accepted by elves. It's more acceptable for a human to be on Evermeet than it is for a half-elf to be there. Arilyn's heritage works against her -- many elves would see that she was a half-elf, and not bother to look at her deeds. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 07:27:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
3. Why SHOULDN'T Arilyn have any effect on half-elf/human relations. Her heroism and service to the elves should have a HUGE affect I think Mr. Mod man.
Because, as I've already said, most elves on Evermeet have no reason to even know that she exists. In many ways, she's like a skeleton in the queen's closet.
Really, I think you're applying a little bit too much optimism. You may want FR to be mythical and heroic and so on, but the greater part of its population think more like real people than awed onlookers in an epic verse. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 07:45:12
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Sorry Wooley, it's been awhile since I read the books I admit. I gave all of my FR (and Dragonlance) books to the school library when I graduated so others could become fans so I don't have easy access anymore.
And I admit, perhaps I am Winterfox being a bit too optimistic. It'd be terribly uninteresting and unrealistic as you indicate if everything was always constantly on the way up. I personally found the Return of the Archwizards ending where they all settled into half-elf raising to be horribly unsatisfying and a bit vulgar.
Still, Arilyn's service seems like it'd eventually reach some ears. You have a point though. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 08:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Sorry Wooley, it's been awhile since I read the books I admit. I gave all of my FR (and Dragonlance) books to the school library when I graduated so others could become fans so I don't have easy access anymore.
And I admit, perhaps I am Winterfox being a bit too optimistic. It'd be terribly uninteresting and unrealistic as you indicate if everything was always constantly on the way up. I personally found the Return of the Archwizards ending where they all settled into half-elf raising to be horribly unsatisfying and a bit vulgar.
Still, Arilyn's service seems like it'd eventually reach some ears. You have a point though.
Please elborate the term 'vulgar'. I quite liked the ending of the Return... series as it was a more personal affair and it also showed that some bridges were built between the races.
As for your recollections of the various novels, it helps to re-read them occasionally. I am a hunter-gatherer, plus books could be called a hobby, in most cases you can't tell by the looks if I actually read the novel, which I usually did.
Memory is a strange thing, you remember how something was mainly because you want to remember it that way, so to you these things 'happened' when in fact they didn't. Maybe you were "traumatized" with the happy-peachy viewpoint ;-) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 08:56:32
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I didn't see bridges between the races being built so much as a group of randy individuals at work really (not that I normally have any problem with that) but it just gave me a creepy feeling in the way they manipulated each other, crassly abused the birth of a child to use a sword, and abandoned Everveska to raise the child in the Vaasa.
And it helps that I still have access to the library thankfully ;-) |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 28 Mar 2006 08:56:48 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 10:11:05
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Maybe we should start to differentiate the hero issue.
The larger than life heroes and the average chap that goes out and does what he thinks is best for village, city, land or whatnot.
I prefer the common hero, although as I think it was Richard pointed out, it is all about the story. If the story is good it should be written no matter the impact on the world at large. These 'little' adventures usually, to me, have more appeal than the big-ass stories of Chosen or whatnot wielding more firepower than the average college of wizardry.
It should be noted that the Realms are a dynamic environment, or are supposed to be this if I understand Ed Greenwood's concept correctly. So, yes, there have to be Realms shaking events. But since not many writers want 'their' characters be developed further by another author. I know I hated it when other writers 'abused' my characters and my plotlines.
Take the original X-Wing novels by Michael Stackpole. They dealt with 'minor' characters in the larger than life plot. It would be great to see the Return of the Archwizards story-arch, more precisely the war for Evereska, being told from the point of view of some minor players who are important to the war but not for the outcome of the plot.
Also, I agree with Richard that the novels should not primarily be written to further our knowledge on the Realms. The Realms are the setting for the novels and the RPG-campaign, but as such they are only the framework, the primary colors a writer uses to add his own colors and shades to paint a picture.
Let the story go where it takes you, either you enjoy the ride or you don't... there may even be some individuals who enjoyed Episode I, a real frightening thought. *shudder*
To alter a quote of a German film producer: A story is good when a story is good. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 10:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
And I admit, perhaps I am Winterfox being a bit too optimistic. It'd be terribly uninteresting and unrealistic as you indicate if everything was always constantly on the way up. I personally found the Return of the Archwizards ending where they all settled into half-elf raising to be horribly unsatisfying and a bit vulgar.
Still, Arilyn's service seems like it'd eventually reach some ears. You have a point though.
Ah, another try  Wooly, please remove that previous post of mine which only contain's Charlie's comments...
This reminds me of an old debate between myself and some gamers. They insisted that character level is relative to how well known or famous you are - thus, a 20th level character should be recognised worldwide.
This, of course, is silly. You could hack'n'slash your way through the Underdark or the Great Glacier, and nobody would probably ever hear of it. No matter how many levels you gained.
Generally, I think, common people (of any race) probably haven't heard of you, unless you have done a great service to the local community. And that applies locally. Why would they even be interested in adventurers, as long as their deeds or heroism doesn't concern them?
There are exceptions, of course. Some people may actually want to hear exciting rumours and tales about adventurers, wizards and "boldblades". But gossip and rumours may always twist the truth somewhat.
Maybe there are rumours about Arilyn, but I agree with Wooly and Winterfox, that half-elves (half-breeds) are not fully accepted at Evermeet, no matter how heroic or benevolent they are. Especially when we are talking about a half-human royal "bastard"  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 10:57:02
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Re: Novels as Travelogues.
Well I concede the point that they probably have moved past the point of being considered first and foremost supplementary data Mace.
In fact, they probably never were and I was just being silly.
Re: Larger than life vs. Common Boys
I pretty much agree with you here. I also think the Realms has been fairly balanced in its portrayal of both.
Re: Arilyn Moonblade
quote:
Maybe there are rumours about Arilyn, but I agree with Wooly and Winterfox, that half-elves (half-breeds) are not fully accepted at Evermeet, no matter how heroic or benevolent they are. Especially when we are talking about a half-human royal "bastard"
I'm not talking acceptance really, I'm talking that SOME people are going to have an opinion on the issue no matter what. Take Jesse Owens for instance, a certain regime in Germany was completely against his accomplishments but everyone there KNEW about him and I can't believe the situation is remotely as bad.
Most Half-Elves are considered disgraces to elven dignity, terminally ill in a manner of speaking, and some clerics clearly teach that they are soulless by the terminology of the Cunningham novels.
However, Arilyn has drawn a mythical Moonblade and you can't keep something like that secret since she makes no attempt to hide it. While hardly King Arthur, every moonblade is no doubt tracked and the sighting of one is no doubt a major event. The fact a half-elf wields it has to call in at least assumptions about...
1. Divine Approval
2. The Moonblade itself.
At least on a religious level, the clerics will be called to explain it. You can't keep something like a holy blade that's the key to the monarchy (even if its divided over several) a secret, especially with the naked desire that most elves seem to greet the objects in question. Kymil Nimsen was her mentor for example and he's no doubt a world famous elf himself. Before as a swordsman and later as the Antichrist of elfdom.
I may be influenced by my own campaigns here but for an to wield a moonblade is as close to sainthood/legendary hero status as one can expect to achieve in one's lifetime and I always have the impression the realms are fervertly alive with tavern swapped stories and a strong storyteller tradition (isn't that what Harpers indicate?)
Even if players kill a Dragon in Town A that's practically isolated, people who do pass through will carry that tale and it ends up in Waterdeep probably. The Bardic tradition preserving history to that point (that novel Elfsong I believe being about it). It's not CNN but I don't see the Realms existing in a vacuum.
Frankly, on Evermeet I can't believe its just a little "scandal" that 'The Crown Princess has died and her half-elven child has her moonblade....hahaha Gold Elf SUCKERS!'
I do agree with you that level does not translate into legendary hero status, mostly because I think that low levels can end up being as famous as Elminster even if its rather unlikely. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 28 Mar 2006 11:09:26 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 11:48:26
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The moonblade issue would be a new thread topic...
Hehe this thread is being derailed even worse than the villains thread.
Why the bloody hell do I bother to point this out? Am I the initiator? Um...no. Am I a mod? Hell no.
Charles, you do something...
Now to villains...err .. heroes...protagonists and antagonists in whatever way shape or form they may come along. Well a protagonist is not necessarily a hero and an antagonist not necessarily a villain. I'm rambling...
I think a hero needs a good villain, so please let's continue this in the villains thread ROFL |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 13:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Arilyn might eventually be accepted as a full princess of the realms.
And Cyric will join hands with Mystra to sing "Can't we all get aloooong."
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 15:04:16
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Charles said: Even if players kill a Dragon in Town A that's practically isolated, people who do pass through will carry that tale and it ends up in Waterdeep probably.
Maybe, but how quickly does the story travel, and how garbled does it become as it passes along? I can easily imagine that the heroes beat it to Waterdeep, or that when it arrives, it does so in such an altered fashion that they aren't recognizable as the protagonists.
In a game I ran, there was an NPC dwarf who posed as an adventurer for the perks that went with it, but never actually adventured. He had a genius for self-promotion, and he listened to the story of some of the PCs' exploits, then disseminated it in altered form with himself as the hero who did the glorious deeds. Made the PCs nuts. They hated that dwarf as they never hated any of the actual villains of the campaign. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 16:21:12
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I recently purchased a biography of Johannes Kepler, entitled Kepler's Witch. The titular witch was his mother, Katherine, who was tried for heresy and witchcraft. I haven't finished the book, but hoo boy, am I impressed with what I've read so far.
For one thing, it strongly evokes a sense of time and place. This is a tough thing to do, because it's difficult for any of us to envision a world so fundamentally different from our own. We have 24-hour cable news channels, live satellite feeds from Sri Lanka, telephones, and the internet. (This, btw, is one of the challenges of writing in the Realms, as many readers seem to assume that if THEY know something, all of the characters should, as well....) In Kepler's time (early 1600s), twenty-five miles was considered a long distance, and most people lived their lives within an even smaller radius.
I imagine the Realms is much the same. Towns at busy crossroads and near market routes would get more information as travelers pass through, but much of that news would be gossip and travelers' tales. Many, many communities would lack a frequent, reliable flow of information.
This, IMO, is the reason why bards have traditionally been such an important part of the Harper organization. There is power in information, and the gathering and judicial dispensing of it is probably the most potent tool in the Harpers' arsenel.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 28 Mar 2006 16:58:46 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 16:42:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Frankly, on Evermeet I can't believe its just a little "scandal" that 'The Crown Princess has died and her half-elven child has her moonblade....hahaha Gold Elf SUCKERS!'
Heh. I would agree with this accessment, but it's not the sort of thing Evermeet's elves would talk about when humans (or scribes) are around.
That said, you'll see a bit of this attitude come into play in the upcoming Songs & Swords books.  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 16:54:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
For me, I don't much care for the whole "I am poor and pitiful Arilyn Moonblade, disgraced and loathed" meme. Ditto Drizzt, I have more faith in humanity (or elfanity) and think that it might be cool for both to meet people who accept them as champions and have been changed by their presence.
You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but I don't see this as a very accurate representation of Arilyn. Even in her first scene, a orphaned child stunned by her mother's death, she is hardly an object of pity. As for "poor," that adjective, taken in its literal sense, does not apply. Arilyn has earned substantial fees for her services over the years and has made some good investments. She wasn't poor when she met Danilo Thann, and she certainly isn't now. (If she pawned half the saphires he's given her, she could pay off my mortgage...) Some people might loath her, but "disgrace?" Doesn't apply.
A moonfighter is afforded respect by elves of just about any shade, and Arilyn is no exception. But it's one thing to respect an individual's abilites, and quite another to want your first born gold elf son to marry a half-elf. To many elves, a half-elf is a signpost on the road to cultural oblivion. Elves may be a good and moral race, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they fling their arms open wide to embrace people who represent the end of their race and culture.
There are pockets of "can't we all just get along?" communities throughout Faerun. The Simbul's realm is one, Silverymoon is another. Half-elves are not universally loathed by elves, and they're usually fairly well accepted by humans. Especially female half-elves. It never hurts to be young, slender, and beautiful, and half-elves have an edge in that regard. Arilyn never felt any discrimination among the Harpers, at least, not for her birth. A lot of bards are half-elves, and a lot of Harpers are bards. But she's not a full-blooded elf, and to a lot of elves, that matters.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 17:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
That said, you'll see a bit of this attitude come into play in the upcoming Songs & Swords books.
Books??? You mean more than just one? As in plural of book? Woohoo, I can't wait  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
Edited by - Mace Hammerhand on 28 Mar 2006 17:28:41 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 17:28:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
That said, you'll see a bit of this attitude come into play in the upcoming Songs & Swords books.
Books??? You mean more than just one? As in plural of book? Woohoo, I can't wait
Oops. Nope, just one book. Sorry about that! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 17:38:15
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Charles, to underline the entire 'news travels slow if at all' topic, consider this:
Ever walked 10 miles? Loaded with a pack? I only did a 10km march with the army and I was damn tired of walking after 6km, at 10 I just wanted to go back and soak my feet. I've (thankfully) never ridden a horse for 24miles (as the PHB states for regular horse travel if I am not mistaken), even if you argued that this was no hardship on a trained rider, I can imagine that at the end of a day you're just as happy to not sit on a horse again for several months.
And before you say that these are hardened men consider this: ever been on a trans-atlantic flight? If not try it. All of us who spend their time sitting at their computers are trained 'sitters', yet I doubt that anyone will go bouncing down the ganway to their luggage after 8+ hours of sitting.
So in short, most people back in the day did not travel much, and if they did it wasn't far. If you look into European history you'll see that only with the advent of the industrial revolution things and people really started to move. Please add 1 and 1... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:25:13
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What I meant Elaine was somewhat garbled. I can understand your statement though and how it could relate and am grateful for your response.
Basically, I just hoped that we could see some lasting effects from taking such a weapon into the hands of Arilyn. You pretty much have described the situation as I saw it though re: Half-Elf relations with their parent race. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Charles, to underline the entire 'news travels slow if at all' topic, consider this:
Ever walked 10 miles? Loaded with a pack? I only did a 10km march with the army and I was damn tired of walking after 6km, at 10 I just wanted to go back and soak my feet. I've (thankfully) never ridden a horse for 24miles (as the PHB states for regular horse travel if I am not mistaken), even if you argued that this was no hardship on a trained rider, I can imagine that at the end of a day you're just as happy to not sit on a horse again for several months.
And before you say that these are hardened men consider this: ever been on a trans-atlantic flight? If not try it. All of us who spend their time sitting at their computers are trained 'sitters', yet I doubt that anyone will go bouncing down the ganway to their luggage after 8+ hours of sitting.
So in short, most people back in the day did not travel much, and if they did it wasn't far. If you look into European history you'll see that only with the advent of the industrial revolution things and people really started to move. Please add 1 and 1...
I've actually done quite a bit of travelling in my time and I'm hardly going to argue that travel is slow in the Forgotten Realms for most of the time. It's also not like Eberron where you can expect there to be the magical equivalent of telegrams.
I do note though that communities don't live in a vacuum in the Middle Ages though (I'm in Graduate school for Medieval history) and never did. Yes, the information was extremely old but in England everyone was interested what was going on in the Crusades and those who wanted accurate informaton could get it. Everyone town was visited by travellers and plenty of nobles had history of pilgrimages or visits to other nations. Not to mention many clergyman.
Was it a travelling time? No, however many people never leave their hometowns in our time as well.
There's good reasons for players adventures to become immortalized. The death of a Dragon is an issue where the players are suddenly very rich or perhaps someone else might become very rich (if they didn't loot it), land suddenly opening up that was previously uninhabitable or unpassable, the dangers or benefits of a sudden powerful armed group of men wandering through the area, and also make very good stories.
During the Crusades, individuals could become like superheroes famous Europe over for far less deeds than we have in Faerun. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:37:20
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quote:
Especially female half-elves. It never hurts to be young, slender, and beautiful, and half-elves have an edge in that regard.
Ah Elaine, you certainly never miss sharing the big truths ;-) |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:38:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
The moonblade issue would be a new thread topic...
Hehe this thread is being derailed even worse than the villains thread.
Why the bloody hell do I bother to point this out? Am I the initiator? Um...no. Am I a mod? Hell no.
Charles, you do something...
I have that effect on people but this is the Heroes thread so I consider it a thread where we can also discuss specific aspects of all Realms heroes and how they relate to the greater whole. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 22:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Well I'm content that Elminster will live forever.
I'm pretty sure he gets it in 1557.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
For me, the Chosen are immutable and important parts of the Realms. I don't like their depiction to be as ordinary mortals and I don't think that gamers who want them to be 'knocked down a peg or two' can properly appreciate the role of demigods (which what they are in a sense) in the Realms.
I'm not sure if they're immutable in the sense of "unchangable." I agree with "important," though their actions probably wouldn't touch the lives of your "Average Joe PC" until he became an "Unaverage Joe PC." I even agree more or less with "demi-gods" (because if they don't approach some of the mad-as-a-hatterGreek demi-gods like Heracles, then I don't know what else would).
But, I do not agree with the assessment that people who want to see them lose now and then "aren't doing it right." I personally feel it's about time their crazyness and meddling started to bite them on the ass a little, just like it did good old Heracles. They are powerful. They are not infallable. I will also note that they certainly haven't been presented as infallable... so, how about some follies. The Seven Sisters touched on it. Make some of the screw ups as signficant as some of the victories.
"My apprentice did WHAT!?"
"You mean he was one of the good guys!?"
"What do you mean destablize the region?!?"
"You mean you actually are really mad at me that I screwed with your life? What's that wand do, again?"
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
One of the ongoing debates in-house at WotC, according to Ed, is the balance between showing us novice heroes (social "nobodies" when their tale begins), and too often putting the focus on rulers, royalty, guildmasters, and Big Wheels. That dovetails with the debate about "small heroics" versus Realms-Shaking-Events.
While I'm chiming in...
A balance. Not every book has to be about "Lord Fancypants." Not every book has to be about "The Great and Powerful I Never Heard of This Guy."
It would be nice to see a series on a group growing on their "Faerun Idol" journey all the way from the auditions to "Hollywood Week" to being crowned "Our Favorite Heroes," almost like the old Quest for Glory Sierra games.
There's sometimes something lost in the journey when showing established people. There doesn't seem to be as much real learning. I know it was tried with Elminster and with Drizzt, but the problem with using Elminster and Drizzt, frankly, is that everyone knows who they're going to be. They were never really presented as nobodies. The were both always High Fliers with Great Destinies. Not saying that the new generation of hero has to come out of the woodwork, just that it'd be nice if he did it with a little help from his friends... who don't happen to be deities or the son of Hulk Hogan.
Even "middle career" heroes like Danilo and Arylin once were are nice. These guys have a story, but they can and do get humiliated now and then on their journey... as a learning experience. And they do win now and then on their journey... as a learning experience. Characters should grow, like people. And, in some respects, there are some parts that shouldn't grow, like people. Liriel (sp?) was petty and haughty to the end. She learned and got over some of it, but part of her never got her head out of her ass... and she suffered for it. That's good. Because, you can identify with that.
That doesn't mean the Drizzt and Elminster stories don't have their place, or that the torch needs to be passed... it's just that there's plenty of room for more stories.
-- Edited for a few grammar issues. |
Edited by - GungHo on 28 Mar 2006 22:40:20 |
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Heroes in Novels
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