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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 11:48:44
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| There are less than 2000 fey`ri left. Simple atrition will kill them off. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 12:22:40
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| Well, please pardon me if I have a different view, I think it would take more than attrition to beat them, based on experiences playing RTS games and reading books, I realise that it would take more than simple attrition. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 15:36:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Well, please pardon me if I have a different view, I think it would take more than attrition to beat them, based on experiences playing RTS games and reading books, I realise that it would take more than simple attrition.
Nothing wrong with having a different view. And if it was so simple to kill them off, we wouldn't have a whole novel trilogy devoted to the fight against this force.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:16:46
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| I tend to agree with Khorne... So long as they are fighting, they have to deal with attrition. The only way they can stay a threat is to keep their numbers up, which means avoiding combat. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 16:48:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The only way they can stay a threat is to keep their numbers up, which means avoiding combat.
<cough> Malkizid <cough> Anyone with that thing aiding them is someone I'd consider a major threat to Faerun. And what's the source of the 2,000 number? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 18:43:29
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
There are less than 2000 fey`ri left. Simple atrition will kill them off.
Except these things are tricky to kill and they spawn quickly. Remember the Crown Wars? Even a small number of them was able to influence the whole kingdom of Siluvanede...
If the high mages of thousands of years ago couldn't kill them off and had to imprison them, I don't think simple atrition will do the trick. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 20:10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
There are less than 2000 fey`ri left. Simple atrition will kill them off.
Except these things are tricky to kill and they spawn quickly. Remember the Crown Wars? Even a small number of them was able to influence the whole kingdom of Siluvanede...
If the high mages of thousands of years ago couldn't kill them off and had to imprison them, I don't think simple atrition will do the trick.
How do we know they couldn't kill them off? After the Dark Disaster and the Raising of Evermeet, do you think it really would have been that difficult to kill off a couple thousand fey'ri? They chose to imprison them -- it wasn't because they couldn't do more.
Oh, and "spawn quickly"? Where does that come from? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Apr 2005 20:15:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 20:14:23
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The only way they can stay a threat is to keep their numbers up, which means avoiding combat.
<cough> Malkizid <cough> Anyone with that thing aiding them is someone I'd consider a major threat to Faerun. And what's the source of the 2,000 number?
Wasn't that number in Forsaken House? And just how trustworthy is Malkazid, someone who's already abandoned the fey'ri once? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 20:34:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They chose to imprison them -- it wasn't because they couldn't do more.
Oh and by the way Elves of Faerun...on the list of horrible decisions made in Faerun's history, I'm betting this one is up in the top ten.  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 20:44:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wasn't that number in Forsaken House?
No idea, Khorne, is that where you got it?
Does anyone have a page number for the 2,000 remark? Because I immediately pondered if this was before or after the Nameless Dungeon was opened up.
quote:
And just how trustworthy is Malkazid, someone who's already abandoned the fey'ri once?
Malkizid better not slink away like Kymil Nimesin and disappear into the mists while we move on to "new characters."
And regardless of whether or not he pulls a Kymil, I think in the meantime, he greatly increases the threat that the Fey'ri pose to Faerun. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 21:27:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
There are less than 2000 fey`ri left. Simple atrition will kill them off.
Except these things are tricky to kill and they spawn quickly. Remember the Crown Wars? Even a small number of them was able to influence the whole kingdom of Siluvanede...
If the high mages of thousands of years ago couldn't kill them off and had to imprison them, I don't think simple atrition will do the trick.
How do we know they couldn't kill them off? After the Dark Disaster and the Raising of Evermeet, do you think it really would have been that difficult to kill off a couple thousand fey'ri? They chose to imprison them -- it wasn't because they couldn't do more.
Oh, and "spawn quickly"? Where does that come from?
Exactly. But what I'm saying is the powers of the elves today arent's as strong as the elves when Eaerlann, Siluvanede and other elven kingdoms still existed. Can they still wield the power to imprison 2000 fey'ri or kill them all off?
When I say they "spawn quickly", I meant that the fey'ri spread their influence fast and effectively. According to LEoF, the survivors of House Dlardrageth fleed Arcorar in -5000. Then in -4800, the Dlardrageths have already subverted the most powerful houses in Siluvanedenn and convinced them to breed with demons to create the fey'ri. This all happened in like 200 years, for a broken band of survivors from House Dlardrageth to take over a powerful elven kingdom, which isn't a very long time in elven terms.
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"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Tanyn Midrain
Acolyte
Sweden
27 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 22:25:53
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| On p 56 of Forsaken House, it says that "nearly two thousand" of the fey'ri had been imprisoned. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 23:12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
When I say they "spawn quickly", I meant that the fey'ri spread their influence fast and effectively. According to LEoF, the survivors of House Dlardrageth fleed Arcorar in -5000. Then in -4800, the Dlardrageths have already subverted the most powerful houses in Siluvanedenn and convinced them to breed with demons to create the fey'ri. This all happened in like 200 years, for a broken band of survivors from House Dlardrageth to take over a powerful elven kingdom, which isn't a very long time in elven terms.
An interesting point to bring up. So far we've seen House Dlardrageth attempting to use force to accomplish their means. I wonder if in future novels we will see them trying to subvert the elven alliance against them. Granted, elven civilizations are at a different point in today's Faerun than in the time frame that is mentioned above. But, does that mean they are more or less succeptible to House Dlardrageth's influence? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2005 : 23:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanyn Midrain
On p 56 of Forsaken House, it says that "nearly two thousand" of the fey'ri had been imprisoned.
Thank you Tanyn Midrain for finding this figure. I don't know if the 2,000 is an totally accurate account of their forces. Despite using troops consisting of other races, the fey'ri had to suffer some losses in the fighting that took place later in the novel. Moreover, I don't know if that takes into account the half-elf tieflings mentioned as joining their force in Cloak & Dagger.
Additionally, if I recall correctly, Lords of Darkness detailed Sarya's attempts to find ancient magic. While Cloak & Dagger lists failures at some of these attempts, I would not be surprised to see some sort of ancient magic or weapons that they perhaps found being unveiled in future novels.
So, we have a threat that has subverted powerful civilizations in the past, has a powerful fiendish ally, and has possible access to some ancient magic/weapons. I can easily see House Dlardrageth being seen as the worst current threat to Faerun.
Until the end of Richard Baker's trilogy at least.... |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 00:15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
When I say they "spawn quickly", I meant that the fey'ri spread their influence fast and effectively. According to LEoF, the survivors of House Dlardrageth fleed Arcorar in -5000. Then in -4800, the Dlardrageths have already subverted the most powerful houses in Siluvanedenn and convinced them to breed with demons to create the fey'ri. This all happened in like 200 years, for a broken band of survivors from House Dlardrageth to take over a powerful elven kingdom, which isn't a very long time in elven terms.
An interesting point to bring up. So far we've seen House Dlardrageth attempting to use force to accomplish their means. I wonder if in future novels we will see them trying to subvert the elven alliance against them. Granted, elven civilizations are at a different point in today's Faerun than in the time frame that is mentioned above. But, does that mean they are more or less succeptible to House Dlardrageth's influence?
Hmm... I think the elves may be less suceptible to House Dlardrageth's influence, as Evermeet and Evereska still remember the atrocities and horror that the daemonfey have created that sparked the Citadel Wars. However, I'm sure there are quite a few elves that would consider working with the daemonfey or mating with demons to increase their powers. For example, many members of the Durothil family in Evermeet or the sun elves that had been assisting Kymil Nimesin.
As to your comment about the daemonfey finding ancient magic or weapons, they did find some in Forsaken House. If I remember correctly, the suit of armour that Sarya had on was from the armoury of some ancient ruins. Then there's also that floation battle platform that Sarya and her generals rode in to invade Evereska, which they recovered from the ruins of the Nameless Dungeon. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2005 : 10:44:37
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| By my account almost 500 fey`ri bit the dust in forsaken house. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 19:59:34
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As we are speaking of Elves... I claim the Elves as greatest threat to Faerūn.
-The creation of the Drow
-They stole the Nether Scrolls
-They freed the Phaerimm
-They were too sentimental to kill the Fey'ri and now they're back
-The Dragon which almost ate Cormyr was a former elf
-They screwed up Myth Drannor, unleashing hordes of monsters
-They screwed up Ascalhorn, unleashing hordes of demons
Need I go on?  |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 10:36:11
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Well,pardon me for saying this, it is true that some of the claims are true, but concerning the freeing of the phaerimm, it was actually an elf and a shade fault for releasing them, for there was an unfortunate clash of Weave and Shadow Weave magic that neutralized and tore a hole in the dimesnional fabric of the phaerimm prison, allowing the thornbacks to go free.
Then concerning the Nether Scrolls, I think there are about 100 or so scrolls in existence during the glory of Netheril Empire. It is true some scrolls are stolen by elves, but some were stolen by mind flayers and rogue mages.
Then concerning Myth Drannor, can i inquire how is it that teh elves managed to free monsters that led to the City of Song fall? |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 14 Apr 2005 10:36:43 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 16:57:50
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Haven't got the books with me at the moment, but I seem to recall it having something to do with an excess of gates open in the area covered by the Mythal.
Possible sources that would give a more exact reason includes Ruins of Myth Drannor; Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves; Lost Empires of Faerūn; and possibly Magic of Faerūn and the FRCs itself. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 20:42:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Then concerning Myth Drannor, can i inquire how is it that teh elves managed to free monsters that led to the City of Song fall?
Lost Empires of Faerun, page 131 details how the "flight of the red dragon Garnet over the throne of the coronal fulfilled a condition of their [three nycaloths] release, and a gnoll shaman of the Moonseas was able to summon them forth." |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 20:57:14
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As I said, they screwed it up. Lousy conditions :P
And if I recall correctly, said high arcanist of Shade actually warned the elf - who didn't listen, however.
Or why would the SHADE of all people free the Phaerimm? ^^
As for the scrolls: One complete set, with all 50 scrolls, resides within Windsong Tower in Myth Drannor. The other 50 were taken by the netherese wizards from the ruins of Aryvandaar, which pissed off the elves - despite the fact that they looted them from some other ruins as well. Anyway, some were stolen by other parties, but most of them got lost due to the elven mess-up if I remember correctly. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 01:29:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
As we are speaking of Elves... I claim the Elves as greatest threat to Faerūn.
-The creation of the Drow
-They stole the Nether Scrolls
-They freed the Phaerimm
-They were too sentimental to kill the Fey'ri and now they're back
-The Dragon which almost ate Cormyr was a former elf
-They screwed up Myth Drannor, unleashing hordes of monsters
-They screwed up Ascalhorn, unleashing hordes of demons
Need I go on?
Darkheyr, but the elves that stole the Nether Scrolls did it for good. They wanted to stop the increasing powers of the Netherese, who were becoming way too powerful for their own good. Also, stealing the Nether Scrolls did not exactly screw up anything.
Then there's also the creation of drow. Whether they created the "drow" or not, they were still evil because of Lolth and Vhaerun. Making dark elves "drow" merely allowed the surface elves to send them running into the Underdark. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 01:37:07
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Well, that shade freeing the phaerimm probably had something to do with the return of Shade Enclave, if I am not wrong, telamont tanthul wants the phaerimm driven out so that the Netherese can reinhabit he desert lands again and restore Netheril.
By the way, another reason why elves may be a great threat is that they were the ones who cast a spell using the Mythal to cause all wryms save dracoliches to go into the "Rage", killing and killing anything that is not their kindred. Well, the answer lies on the Book 1 of the year of the rogue dragons "The Rage". |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 02:18:31
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Shadovar, Telamont actually DIDN'T want to free the phaerimm. Instead, none of the Shades do. The main plan of the Shade Enclave was to return to Faerun, establish themselves as a main power in the Anaoruch (sp?) and then focus their attention on destroying the phaerrim when they are trapped inside the Sharn Wall.
As for the elves casting the "Rage" spell, the spell description you mentioned WAS NOT what the original spell was. The original spell was that it would cause all evil dragons to go into a deadly rage and destroy everything in its paths, including EACH OTHER. What you mentioned was the modified spell that Sammaster casted after researching. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 05:53:09
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| My apologies to all if I had got the facts jumbled up. By the way, my thanks to you, DDH_101,for correcting my misperception of the facts. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 06:43:45
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No problem, we all get our stuff mixed up every once in awhile. I expect others to correct me if the same thing occurs with me...
Anyways, back to the topic at hand. The biggest screw-up I think the elves ever did to make them a threat was probably the Sundering. It was just a good example of elven arrogance of their high magics. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 09:23:15
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Pardon, what is meant by the 'Sundering' which involved elven high magics. I am not sure what it meant so please enlighten me about this, thank you.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 11:12:02
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The sundering was the creation of Evermeet, wasnt it?
And yes, the Shades did NOT want to free the phaerimm. They warned the elves about it, they didnt listen, and POUFF, there goes Evereska. Elven arrogance as usual :P
Nether Scrolls: Well, consider what would have happened if the netherese wouldve still had access to the scrolls during the phaerimm conflict. Its very probable that they could have defeated them, or that Karsus wouldntve failed his spell.
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silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 14:49:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
The sundering was the creation of Evermeet, wasnt it?
Yes, per Lost Empires of Faerun, page 51
quote:
-17,600 The Sundering occurs, and Evermeet is created with elven high magic. The spell reaches both back and forward in the mists of time.
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2005 : 14:58:23
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| Bleh. Thats prolly the only part of LEoF I haven't read so far. And yes, I don't like elves :P |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Topic |
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Worst threat to Faerun?
