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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
 Posted - 08 May 2005 : 06:45:58
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Greetings to all forum members! Well, by now, I am quite certain most or at least a fair number of us have read quite a number of FR novels. In these Novels, the stories sometimes proclaimed to be the most realm shaking or a realm shaking event following up an previous event such as the Return of The ArchWizards, the crystal shard, the threat from the sea and so on.
So can I ask the forum members to well share their views and if possible, reasons, about which Realm Event in FR they consider it to be the most realm shaking event. Just put forth your views and reasons, that simple.
Alright, for me, I consider the Return of the Archwizards as the most Realm shaking event. Well, the return of the Shadovar had brought the return of the phaerimm, which had caused severe damage to Evereska, also, the insidious plans of the Shadovar that had caused wide spread changes to the balance of powers in the realms as well as the environment.
Well, how about yours? All replies are all based on one opinions so state freely, there is no right or wrong here.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 08 May 2005 06:48:26
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 07:24:25
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Hmm... I don't see The Crystal Shard as an RSE because it was in an isolated region of teh North, in Icewind Dale. Whether Kessell succeeded with his plan to take over the Ten Towns, it would surely not affect the rest of the Realms.
I myself have to say the biggest RSE would be the Times of Trouble. Nothing can beat that. So much happened during that period of time: old gods dying and new gods born, magic going wild, chaos in ALL of Faerun, etc... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 14:53:43
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I concur, the Time of Troubles was the biggest RSE. It's the only one that effected the entire planet, and both mortals and deities fell or were changed by it.
As for the Return of the Archwizards, it's not really an RSE to me. It certainly did change things up, but there was a serious amount of potential there that simply wasn't utilized. Because of that, for me it's somewhere between an RSE and a non-event. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 15:05:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As for the Return of the Archwizards, it's not really an RSE to me. It certainly did change things up, but there was a serious amount of potential there that simply wasn't utilized. Because of that, for me it's somewhere between an RSE and a non-event.
I'd have to agree with that. The entire RotA saga seemed to be more about introducing new elements into the setting rather than actually shaking things up and making players, DMs, and readers alike sit up and take notice with regard to how Faerun had been changed.
However, looking at the immediate future, the return of the Shade Enclave appears to have run its course. But, I still wonder from time to time, whether the actual effect of its return to Faerun is still something that perhaps hasn't been fully experienced or explored.
Who, besides game designers and authors, can REALLY know what will eventuate with the return of the Shades...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 22:44:53
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Hmm... to me, for something to qualify as an RSE, it must affect the Realms as a whole. Even RotA was not that Realm-impacting to me because let's face it: would a place like Aglarond or Menzoberrazan be affected?
I personally think that even the Tuigan Horde invasion was a bigger RSE than RotA. After all, you had an Alliance made up from nations around Faerun.
In fact, the only RSE I can think of that is nearly as important as ToT would be The Rage that's occuring with the dragons. This RSE is affecting all of Faerun with dragons rampaging everywhere. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 01:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I personally think that even the Tuigan Horde invasion was a bigger RSE than RotA. After all, you had an Alliance made up from nations around Faerun.
In addition, the thousands of refugees who were forced to flee their homelands in anticipation of the approaching Horde from the east. Recall the plight of these refugees and how they began to overwhelm many of the smaller communities of the UE they retreated to.
Another point to consider is the fact that after the Khahan was killed, many large groups within the Tuigan Horde were still active in the UE, conquering and then holding many of the territories they had previously terrorised.
If nothing else, the Tuigan invasion of the Western portion of the continent marked a change in the political and demographic landscape of the eastern Realms.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 May 2005 01:36:43 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 07:22:34
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| I wonder what would have happened if the khahan had decided not to attack Kara-tur first and instead had attacked the west with all of his forces........... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 07:55:19
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I would have said Return of the Archwizards was a RSE, but then Wizards dropped all support for Shade and moved on to another wannabe RSE with dragons that's pretty isolated and will probably be forgotten in a year too.
RSE = Avatar trilogy.
Nothing else has lived up to it and I don't think Wizards has to balls to try something like it again (hence Shadowdale not getting obilerated by Shade, hence none of the chosen getting slained in the big fight scene at the end of Elminster in Hell, hence NOTHING ELSE happening with Shade since.)
The Hunter's Blade trilogy had the potential to be a RSE had not Wizards botched that up with the Silver Marches supplement.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 09 May 2005 07:58:30 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 07:57:09
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quote:
I wonder what would have happened if the khahan had decided not to attack Kara-tur first and instead had attacked the west with all of his forces...........
The issue of battlefield tactics and military strategy need to be taken into account.
Yamun understood and appreciated the fact that the recently collected (and conquered) tribes of the Tuigan and other racial groups, needed time to adjust to being united together. In addition, each tribe likely had a different way of fighting, some specialising in mounted warfare, while others mastered the ways of archery. Foot troops and regular ground warfare probably made up the rest. Now, organising and deploying such a united "combined arms" force requires a great deal of time, patience, and a reliable command structure. Don't forget that the Khahan was creating an organised military body from peoples who were - originally and traditionally - used to fighting seperately.
The Khahan need to have his horde armies practice -- practice in coming together as an army, and fighting in formations much larger than they were used to in the past. The development of battlefield strategies which took advantage of their larger numbers would likely also have been a major consideration.
Taking all this into account, the Khahan decided that the best way to formalise his fighting force was to deploy them against enemies that they already had "experience" fighting against. That is why he turned his attention to the realms of Kara-Tur first. For example, both Shou Lung and Khazari were already nations that all the Tuigans had had conflict with in the past. So, bringing the horde style of war to these realms lessens the requirement for the creation of newer strategies, but reinforces the group dynamic of a "collective" military force.
Once such a united force had forged these strategies and tactics in fighting against "experienced" forces, they could then deploy against unfamiliar armies with strange ways of battle. They are then able to concentrate specifically on conducting themselves into battle without having to worry about the fact that they were once a "seperated" and "unorganised" people.
The Tuigan were largely unfamiliar with the western style of warfare, so if the Tuigan had campaigned against the west first, the united tribes would have been woefully unprepared militarily and strategically.
Of course, the Khahan probably also appreciated the aspect of warfare which states that you should always secure your immediate region before initiating conflict elsewhere. If the Tuigan had attacked the western Realms first, Shou Lung, Khazari, and all the other nations of Kara-Tur would likely have had more time to prepare their defences, and might even have launched pre-emptive attacks of their own in the hopes of destroying the united Tuigan before they could turn their attentions back east. The Tuigan would then have been forced to fight a war on two fronts and that would undermine strategy, by limiting the Khahan's effective choices of offense and defense, as well as having to divide his horde in two in an attempt to effectively fight in both the Realms, and in the Endless Wastes.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 May 2005 07:58:04 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 14:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I would have said Return of the Archwizards was a RSE, but then Wizards dropped all support for Shade and moved on to another wannabe RSE with dragons that's pretty isolated and will probably be forgotten in a year too.
I'll be curious to see if you are right and that trend continues.
Oh and wannabee RSE  ...there's something I never could have imagined hearing. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 16:44:22
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| I consider the Shade events a RSE. They melted parts of the Great Glacier, they changed weather patterns because of the melting, Waterdeep's, Evereska's, and Evermeet's armies got thier butts handed to them, they helped destroy both Tilverton and parts of Evereska, Shadowdale was attacked, Myth Drannor was attacked, some of the Chosen were hurt or kicked off world, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 17:38:27
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I consider the Shade events a RSE. They melted parts of the Great Glacier, they changed weather patterns because of the melting, Waterdeep's, Evereska's, and Evermeet's armies got thier butts handed to them, they helped destroy both Tilverton and parts of Evereska, Shadowdale was attacked, Myth Drannor was attacked, some of the Chosen were hurt or kicked off world, etc.
But on the flip side, other than the damage to Evereska and Tilverton and the changed landscape in the Anauroch, it's like everything has gone back to normal. There's been no further mention of the changed weather (my impression was that it ended with the discovery of the melting of the High Ice) or of the forces lost in the conflicts...
It's like the only lingering effects are in Evereska, Tilverton, and the Anauroch. That's part of why I have a hard time calling it an RSE -- it didn't shake things up a lot, and once it was done, that was it.
Heck, there's been so little follow-up on this one, we don't even know how mobile the City of Shade is! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 20:02:35
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| Actually, if you read Viper's Kiss, it's mentioned that the winter is the coldest in the Vilhon Reach for years, and if I remember correctly, Kara mentions the bad effects of the changed weather in The Rage as well. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 20:29:39
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| The biggest RSE? For me it's easy: the Time of Troubles. Gods died and new gods rose in their place. It was in Greenwood's Shadow of the Avatar trilogy. It was in Salvatore's Siege of Darkness. Plus, it has been given at least passing mention in many other novels. These days, it seems most authors are playing in their own sandboxes, with little mention of other authors' novels. The ToT, by being mentioned in so many places, was what really opened my eyes to the concept of "shared world". |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 20:55:34
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| Siege of darkness was maybe not an RSE, but definitely an DSE(figure out what that means) because they really got their butts handed to them, and Lolth even declared a ceasefire so that they could regain their strenght. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Adarin
Acolyte
30 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2005 : 14:47:09
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| Well, I think the Threat from the sea was a bigger RSE, as the main villain in the trilogy known as Iakhovas. If Iakhovas manages to become someone as powerful as Karse, and manages to defeat or perhaps slay Umberlee. He would assume her portfolio and may likely wreck havoc on the sea and oceans of Toril, disrupting sea trade and forever cutting seaborne communication and trade. |
There will always be parting of ways which is never of your preference. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2005 : 16:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I consider the Shade events a RSE. They melted parts of the Great Glacier, they changed weather patterns because of the melting, Waterdeep's, Evereska's, and Evermeet's armies got thier butts handed to them, they helped destroy both Tilverton and parts of Evereska, Shadowdale was attacked, Myth Drannor was attacked, some of the Chosen were hurt or kicked off world, etc.
Shadowdale is attacked every other weekend.
When did Waterdeep need an army anyway?
Evereska? Yeah, I think it has a big magic shield and navy to protect it.
Evereska, well how important to the Realms was it? It wasn't.
Tilverton, another self important city, but who cares.
If the weather had changed so greatly, the weather would be playing a bigger role in current novels and it hasn't. The melting is over, it screwed up the weather while it was happening, but within a year things return to norm. I won't even mention the complete LACK OF SUPPORT the melting got in PGtF, so I guess it didn't have that big of a long term impact.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2005 : 17:02:03
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| Then I guess two of you just have a different opinion on what a RSE is but the Return of Shade novels did impact the Realms even if you want to continue to claim that WOTC has dropped and never mentioned it again. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 09:21:43
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Thanks everyone for the replies. Hmm, so lets rank the RSE in terms of which is considered the most RSE.
According to numbers:
1) The Time of Troubles.
2) The Tuigan Invasion.
3) The Threat from The Sea.
4) The malaugrym and their insidious plans during the Time of Troubles.
5) The Hunter Blade events since the whole nothern faerun was plunged into chaos.
6) The return of shade enclave to faerun.
That is as much as I could think of and rank. Additions and corrections to the ranking of the RSE are certainly welcome. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 19:10:57
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| Hmm... would the events of The Last Mythal be more serious than the Hunter's Blade trilogy? After all, the daemonfey and fey'ri corrupted and brought down like two elven kingdoms before being imprisoned for five thousand years. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 19:40:42
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... would the events of The Last Mythal be more serious than the Hunter's Blade trilogy? After all, the daemonfey and fey'ri corrupted and brought down like two elven kingdoms before being imprisoned for five thousand years.
I'm guessing that Shadovar is leaving off the Last Mythal events until the trilogy is completed. If not than it should definitely be in there, alon with the Year of Rogue Dragons events (another not-yet-completed trilogy). |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:31:42
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| Aye, true, when the trilogies of the two novels are finished, I will rearrange the ranks of the RSEs again. Thanks for the comments. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Realm Shaking Events
