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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 01:12:41
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Cherrn, it wasn't the Church of Bane, it was Cyric's church that was in Zhentil Keep. However, I quite agree with you now about Zhentil Keep's conditions. But I still think Bane's church is quite powerful with a leader like Fzoul.
BTW, what about the Shades? Even though they haven't done much since their return, the Shades are very powerful and a force to be reckon with. If some of the nearby countries don't band together, the City of Shade may start expanding out of the Anauroch Desert. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 04:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I really do hope that is never the case. I prefer the Shade Enclaves just as they are now. There are enough large-scale threats in the Realms as there is...
Yes, there are dragons and daemonfey on the horizon...oh my. The Shades are going to have to wait in line if they wish to be a threat to the Realms.  |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 24 Feb 2004 04:12:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 02:07:05
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Actually, I'm really looking forward to seeing the overall threat the Dragons from the upcoming trilogy will bring to the Realms. Other than the Cormyr Saga there's never been a 'good' and 'detailed' Realms dragon book...
The Rage I think, will be the next big threat, at least in terms of the Realms storyline. As for the potential threat from the Fey'ri, I believe that's always been a source of some fear for those who actually now of their existence.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 03:12:31
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Sirius, I wouldn't really worry about dragons because even though they are powerful, they just don't have the number to dominate the Realms. Also, dragons cannot stand being other colours of dragons and this alliance wouldn't really work out. However, like the Sage said, I'm interested to see how the new Dragon series would turn out.
BTW, are demons and devils that much of a threat to the Realms? It's true they are powerful and evil figures, but they can't really get into the Prime unless they are called on by priests and mages. I haven't really read about a huge demonic threat in the Realms except like Orcus, but he is a god. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 13:41:49
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The threat to the Realms from extraplanar demons and devils has already been discussed to some degree both here, and in a number of other scrolls in the library. I suggest you do a search DDH_101, the discussion should prove most enlightening...
To use as few words as possible for this, one of the main reasons there's never been much of a major fiend threat to the Realms is because of a lack of organisation and cooperation between the two major parties involved...the Tanar'ri, and the Baatezu.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Razandel
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 15:12:34
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(So here I am getting ready for my first post when I realize that the book I wanted to reference isn't here at my girlfriend's house, doh! So bere with me please)
I have to say that I think the "End of Creation" may be the biggest looming threat.
First off, it's there because of Liera. She created a curse that subtly changed all written text so that even in ancient writtings, a "single word, juxtaposition, or even an entire sentance" from various works can be added together into one document, the biggest LIE ever made, that would halt every creative act on Toril. What this is supposed to do, is destroy Oghma completly, thus the ultimate grudge revenge by Liera.
However she is supposedly dead. I believe, however, that like Myrkul, she is not dead, just greatly reduced in power. Perhaps, even, like Myrkul, hiding in some powerful item. Like, oh, say, a sword called Houndsbane, being wielded maybe by her lover Mask. Can anyone discredit that? Really, I havn't read any of the novels...
Anyhow...next up is Denier. Oghma's underling scribe god. A god totally obsessed with a document called the Metatext, a document compossed of, and I quote without book, "a single word, juxtaposition, or even an entire sentance" from every written work in existance. When read it suppossedly catapults one to godhood or divine understanding or some such nonsense. Sounds like one big terrible lie to me.
So, If you've put these little pieces together with me here, what could this mean? God-beings squabbling over the portfolios left behind from Oghma, one of the most powerful gods? Toril-wide war against good, hard working artist folk and whoever when one of thier patrons is dead? Perhaps something even worse, something not even Liera expected?
I mean, wasn't Oghma one of those creater gods, responsible for naming everything, or something along those lines? What would happen if ALL of creation stopped for a day? No new poison, disease...no new magic spells discovered, no peice of weapon or armor or sock or belt. No new life? How far would that stopping power go? |
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Edited by - Razandel on 25 Feb 2004 15:36:17 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2004 : 00:13:54
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| Razandel, I've already mentioned the "End of Creation" threat before in this topic. It's from the Faiths and Pantheons Manual. As for the whole death of Leira, it is confirmed by Lord Ao himself. The Greater Gods themselves all had doubts whether Leira was dead or not, which was why they used their magic together to call on Lord Ao to answer them. I don't think Lord Ao could be deceived by Leira, could he? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2004 : 02:18:47
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The last trilogy I read was the Empires trilogy, so this has got me thinking about the potential threat a renewed Tuigan Horde would have for the Realms to the west. The 2nd edition 'Forgotten Realms' setting book, A Grand Tour of the Realms speaks a little about this, and how there's always the threat of a new horselord uniting what tribes are left and marching them across the Endless Waste back into the Realms.
Would the now current environment of the Realms be better able to defend itself against another potential incursion?. With the changes that have recently occured in Thay, Cormyr, Rashemen (to a lesser extent), and the region of the Old Kingdoms, it is definitely worth some consideration.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2004 : 02:39:14
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Granted that we ourselves know little about the Turgan horde, other than the bits and pieces we've read here and there. We would wager a guess that such a thing would not occur. Rashamen still is the Witch ruled barbarian country it was when the greater whole of them attempted to and failed to defeat then. Thay is still Thay.. just more mercantile, so even that aid that Thay (they ) once granted would mostly likely dissappear. Couple this with the fact that they were reduced to less than one fourth of their numbers... The odds are slim... However...
Should they get aid from other sources as well, More specifically the Church of Cyric, Shar, The Shades are the at the top of the list as well as perhaps The Iron Throne, the Arcane Brotherhood, The Daemonfey and maybe even the Kraken society then it is possible. Granted all groups we listed (including the Minor Ones) would be doubtful to join...
No.... We doubt the Horsemen would make deals with such evil orginizations, so there is no real way to break through the northern area again. And Due to Mulhorandi's recently increased military aggression (not to mention the desert) it is all but impossible to come in through that region... Nope, we're afraid that the turgan horde was a one time threat... unless their numbers increase or they get aid from two of the major orginizations that we mentioned then it is doubtful... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 17:30:20
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| Hey, I have a question. Of all the Thieves guilds in Faerun, which one is the biggest threat? The Shadow Thieves? The Nightmasks? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 17:37:37
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hey, I have a question. Of all the Thieves guilds in Faerun, which one is the biggest threat? The Shadow Thieves? The Nightmasks?
Aren't The Night Masks an assassins guild? Regardless, The Shadow Thieves are the largest thieves guild in all of Faerun, so I'd give the nod to them. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 18:35:01
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| Same with the Shadow Thieves. The exiled Waterdhavian guild is huge, make no mistake..... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 22:35:59
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| Sirius, the Nightmasks don't just restrict themselves to assassinations. I know that, but I read about how they lost like half their ranks during the Times of Trouble and the Shadow Thieves are still recovering. As for the Nightmasks, they are also large and they are led by a clone of Manshoon. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 23:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Sirius, the Nightmasks don't just restrict themselves to assassinations. I know that, but I read about how they lost like half their ranks during the Times of Trouble and the Shadow Thieves are still recovering.
Change the tense around to recovered. Per Cloak & Dagger, pg. 104
quote:
Despite this setback [the aforementioned TOT losses], the Shadow Thieves has rebuilt its power in the past decade and is now more powerful than ever...
This same source is where they are listed as Faerun's largest thieves guild. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2004 : 03:39:09
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| Hmmm... but the Shadow Thieves aren't really a big threat. After all, they don't exactly have plans like the Zhentarim to dominate and take over Faerun. Lol. However, the Nightmasks of Westgate do have ambitious plans like that and I think they are already expanding around the Dragon Coast. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2004 : 05:20:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmmm... but the Shadow Thieves aren't really a big threat. After all, they don't exactly have plans like the Zhentarim to dominate and take over Faerun.
They don't? What about their "funneling manpower and resources into Waterdeep to prepare for...eventual action against the Lords of that city?"
Or the Shadow Thieves "increasing the number of agents in Baldur's Gate" in their next step to have "criminal dominance of the Sword Coast."
Cloak & Dagger, p. 112
If that doesn't constitute big plans, what does? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2004 : 17:49:42
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| Sirius, the Shadow Thieves wants to take control of Waterdeep because of their past with the Lords of Waterdeep. They want revenge for being driven out of the city. Yes, they are expanding throughout Amn to gain control of the criminal underworld but they don't want to be tyrants and control whole kingdoms. That's not their style and the Shadowmasters know it too, otherwise they would've been wiped out a long time ago. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2004 : 23:34:38
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| From what we gather, the Shadow thieves did ( we do not know if this is still true) are on par in control of Amn with the Amnish council. The do not seek outright spotlight power, true. However they may seek to be a power behind the throne so that they can grow rich off cettain exemptions (IE. with a kingdom under one's thumb one would have free rein to base all operations out of that kingdom). After all, when unrivaled by any council or King who isn't under their shadow, they would own the underworld of the sword coast.. A far larger territory than any of the various countries, (excepting perhaps now enlarged Mulhorand) and none of the responsibilities of running such a large region. |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Teflon
Seeker
60 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 22:55:58
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| Looking over books of old, I think the Twisted Rune is the worst threat. Any cabal who can kidnap Halaster is pretty powerful. I personally want to see more novels about them. In an essence they intrigue me. |
In any battle, the mightiest weapon is one that strikes unseen.
A Warrior or Wizard may be invincible in open battle, with their foes before them, but even they must sleep sometime, and cannot parry the knife that comes from behind.
-The life of a assassin. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 05:26:26
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The biggest threat to the Realms? Powergamers! Like the gentleman on the other forums who has 2 PC gods running around killing other gods, and no one is doing anything about it...
Of course, this is just my opinion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 05:44:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The biggest threat to the Realms? Powergamers! Like the gentleman on the other forums who has 2 PC gods running around killing other gods, and no one is doing anything about it...
Of course, this is just my opinion.
Ah Wooly! :)   |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 06:21:55
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| Teflon, the Twisted Rune is powerful but they also have a lot of weaknesses too. For example, their organization is like composed of undead and liches, which would be made short work by other rivals like the Church of Cyric should such a conflict ever happen. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 19:32:44
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| Also, the Twisted Rune is more interested in playing their personal games (their gaming table is Calimshan) with each other than in attaining power on a Faerun-wide basis. They are a great threat to anyone who threatens their game, but mostly indifferent to everyone else. |
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Jacinth Greyfox
Acolyte
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2004 : 16:11:50
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Re: the earlier conversation about whos the most formidable thieves guild organisatioin in Faerun. How about the Shadowmasters? They control Telflamm and Thesk and are actively expanding into Thay and Mulholand. They have also been granted the Shadow Walk ability by Mask. Thats Divine Favour from the Upright Man himself!
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The Throne or the Tomb! |
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Tyros
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2004 : 03:41:17
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Hail!
The biggest threat to the realms?
Well, I don't know if it could be called the "biggest" threat, but I haven't heard anyone mention, ummm, the Harpers, or better yet Cormyr ... which is an accident waiting to happen if I ever saw one. Their wars of conquest in the Tunlands and the annexation of Tilverton should serve as every bit the warning that the conquest of Teshendale or Daggerdale signalled in regards to Zhentil Keep.
If Cormyr's "Big Brother" imperilistic tendancy were not every bit as rude as that of Zhentil Keep or the Zhentarim, and thus bad enough, Azoun the Umpteenth at last met his much deserved end ... only to be reincarnated as a mere whelp! And he continues, in his whelpdom, to sit upon the throne!!!!! Whatever strife this may cause within Cormyr's borders, there has been a fairly big destablization of the balance of power in the region that has left one BIG, dangerous vacumn. Slice of Cormyr anyone?
Frith!
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 06:44:56
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Biggest threat to Faerun? Why WOtC of course!  hehe just kidding.
Truthfully I don't know. I would say Baneites/Zhentarim since they are the biggest and most organized threat. But they are also the most open and so somewhat more easily countered especially with all the good aligned groups working in concert (well sometimes) and maybe even more so the other evil groups trying to undermine each other. But the biggest threat will most likely be an unseen one something coming without warning... |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 10:10:35
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Ok, I'm going to throw out my opinions on this matter, since they haven't really been discussed yet:
Past biggest threats:
The Dawn Cataclysm. While the Times of Trouble seemed bad, nearly 10 deities died and all, ultimately it wasn't that bad in terms of long term ramifications with Ao overseeing everything and making sure that the deities were greatly reduced in power and able to pick up the mantles of other deities relatively easily. I'm not so sure the same thing happened during the Dawn Cataclysm, but am sure that things could have wound up much much worse.
Future biggest threat: Whatever Lathander's got cooking this time. I love Lathander, probably because he is so willing to leap before looking.
Sarta |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2004 : 13:17:35
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Yeah I also like him because of that Sarta. A new beginning for all - at any cost!  |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Mage Jastra Eveningfall
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2004 : 01:59:58
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I believe that the Shadow Weave has the greatest potential of the worst threat to Toril. Frankly, I find the fact that Shar was even able to jury-rig her own source of magic is the death knell of the Weave and Mystra as we know it. Ariel Manx is but a mortal, and Shar has plotted against the lineage of magic since the War of Light and Darkness. I believe that one day, Shar will find a way to dominate the Weave, destroying it or binding it to its dark counterpart.
In theory, however, Mystra should be able to annihilate it or at least incapacitate it. Since the Shadow Weave is connected to Shar, and Mystra can deny gods access to the Weave, which they draw upon for their powers, the Shadow Weave is still powered by the True Weave, meaning Mystra could forbid Shar her powers and thus paralyze the Shadow Weave. |
Mage Jastra Eveningfall |
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Worst threat to Faerun?
