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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 02:45:14
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Yes...
(I just wanted to get in on the huge ammount of needless aggreement posts this thread has experienced of late, I hate being left out in the dark)  |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 06:27:33
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Well then, let's change the focus of the discussion for a term shall we...
Most FR fans here would probably remember how the Faiths and Avatars tome spoke of the effects of other faiths and pantheons taking root in the Realms, then after a short period of time beginning to form a religious base from which to form a church or clergy.
Now what I want to talk about is, even given the differences now evident with the changing of FR's cosmology, what kind of overall risk, or threat would such an event pose if it were to occur in the Realms, in present-day game time (1373 DR)...?
In other words, if another faith from another Material Plane, for example Morgion, the Lord of Disease from the DL setting, were to find a way to access the FR deitific pantheon and slowly start to build a power base either by bringing followers over from Krynn, or beginning from scratch - How much effect would this have on the Realms, and the current existing Faerunian pantheon...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Feb 2004 06:28:41 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2004 : 17:54:41
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And just who is this Morgion the Lord of Disease, he is nothing compard to Cyric.
But a new diety could rock the boat to say it like that...if he could do any thing like start a massiv war |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 07:48:22
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I doubt it would be something so grand so quickly...A new deity would try for the subtle approach first, slowly building a power-base under the noses of the already established deities. It's unlikely a new deity would make a large grab for power until he had enough of a worshipper base to actually challenge or maintain a position in the Faerunian pantheon.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 09:06:32
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Well an interloper deity would be the just one of many such problems. As we've stated before, Ao's decree of Faith and Belief equaling power can do wonders for not only interloper Deities but deceased, departed, and even Mortals. After all there was A cult in BG2 that would have theoretically worked (had the heroes not destroyed it) the Blind Beholder (called the Unseeing Eye... even had an awesome title) was already powerful enough to grant it's followers who survived the initiation ( which was plucking out their own eyes... Think "Event Horizon") it granted them some extra sensory powers as well as allowing them to 'see' without seeing. And of those who turned from their faith? Well they were blind, powerless, and still without eyes...
Even though the Beholder was defeated (which required the use for most of an Item of one shot power, bringing the Beholder from max HP to 10, or so... enought to kill in one hit anyways). The ability to grant even a fraction of that power upon it's own followers would mean that it would have been well on it's way to godhood.
Like I said the ramifications of this Belief to Godhood... (Or Will to Power as it were, some of you may laugh at that little play on words  ) are far reaching indeed. One need only show enough force, be at the right place, at the right time and say the right things to gain even a handful of followers. From there, it's all misonary work to find those uncontent with the way things are.
" He could take away their freedom and still they'll roar. He'll bring them Death, and they will love him for it." |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 16:34:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I doubt it would be something so grand so quickly...A new deity would try for the subtle approach first, slowly building a power-base under the noses of the already established deities. It's unlikely a new deity would make a large grab for power until he had enough of a worshipper base to actually challenge or maintain a position in the Faerunian pantheon.
Exactly, I just don't see anything too attention grabbing. Otherwise, what's to stop a power or powers from the Realms pantheon from doing something about this interloper? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 18:53:59
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| I agree with Sage too. After all, the deities have taken many precautions and created many safeguards to make sure that other deities will have a hard time to take their powers. Also, it's not very often a deity is weakened enough for others to take their power unless there's another Times of Trouble... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2004 : 20:55:30
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| if one diety wants to rally bad he could do it. But the gods are cowards, only Cyric would actulay attack a other god. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 04:21:30
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I don't think that is likely. Any deity, whether for good or evil would perceive a threat to it's portfolio/worshipper base as a challenge and would respond accordingly, either within Cynosure, or through less-direct methods.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 17:11:51
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| Cyric, do you know how annoying it gets when you keep boasting about your god? There are tons of gods that are willing to kill others to do it. However, they do know the subtle way of deceptions and illusions and not be reckless like Cyric. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 17:41:26
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Not only is it not true that Cyric would be the only one who might dare attack another deity, it's also getting extremely irritating when all you talk about is how wonderful he is. Most of your posts are nothing but boastings. "Cyric is this." "Cyric is that." "My god can beat up your god."
I for one am sick of it.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 18:42:02
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to say it by other words they are to weak DDH_101. And Bookwyrm Cyric could kill your god. Who ever he is.
But The kir-lanas could be a treat to all of Faruen what do you think ? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2004 : 00:18:33
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| Umm... Cyric? I think Bookwyrm is quoting you, not trying to pick a fight. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2004 : 04:09:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Umm... Cyric? I think Bookwyrm is quoting you, not trying to pick a fight. Lol.
That's exactly right DDH-101. Cyric, like all of us, you should try to keep these scrolls free from negative or hurtful comments...lest the wrath of Alaundo pay you an unforgettable visit indeed...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2004 : 22:43:25
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| Well, we suppose this actually settles the scroll then.. Cyricists are the greatest threat to Faerun... Even Alaundo got involved... so we assume that is that... what a shame... we were hoping for some Toril Shattering Ka-Boom... oh well |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2004 : 05:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Well, we suppose this actually settles the scroll then.. Cyricists are the greatest threat to Faerun...
Almost the same thought as would keep popping into my head everytime I looked at this scroll. But I never said it, fearing Cyric would take it as a compliment. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2004 : 07:03:30
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Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.... Why is it that it is always up to us to voice what others are always thinking? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2004 : 03:33:51
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| Cyricists are the greatest threats? Please! Banites are way more powerful and scarier than them. If a god has someone like Malik to be his Seraph of Lies, that god is either very weak or stupid. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2004 : 06:22:51
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| Actually, If I may voice my opinion, (which many of you know I too often do.....) I believe Cyricists are a threat because of their madness. Anyone that stupid is a severe threat to the intellects of those on Toril. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2004 : 15:59:22
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| I honestly do believe that Cyricists are the greatest threat to Faerun. Their strength is that they don't have any huge place of gathering. A socalled headquarter if you will. With Banites you know that if you want to weaken them severely you will have to attack Zhentil Keep. With the Cyricists you could destroy a single cell of them in one city and all the other cells would still be somewhat unaffected. They are like the modern day terrorists (sorry to bring them into the discussion), no matter how much you try they will still be there. They operate in and around society, you can't say where they are exactly, but you know they are there because of the murder and strife they spread. And unlike the Cyric, who used to frequent these boards but was sent packing, these are intelligent worshipers, and they know that if other people knew about who they worshiped then they would surely loose their lives. The friendly duke who greets the people on his trips through the countryside could be a cyricist. The quiet boy from next door could be one. The beggar on the street corner could be one. Fact is, Cyricists could be everywhere without us knowing about it. People wouldn't know where to start if they wanted to remove Cyricists. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
Edited by - Cherrn on 19 Feb 2004 16:00:09 |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2004 : 16:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Do you have any evidence to support that statement Shadowlord...?
Welcome back BTW...
Thank ye Sage. And yes, I do have evidence. Look at the Cyricists all across the realms. Yes, they are THAT stupid. Point proven. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2004 : 17:00:19
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I can't believe a single soul has yet to discern the true "worst threat to Faerun."
It's Eberron folks. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 04:01:00
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| Cherrn, but who the hell has the powers to attack and raze Zhentil Keep? True, Zhentil Keep was destroyed several years ago, but it was only because of divine manipulations. Now Zhentil Keep is strong again with Zhentarim support plus they have Fzoul Chembyrl, Chosen of Bane to lead them. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 10:11:19
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| I think a united Dalelands, Sembian, Cormyrean, and Hillsfar army would do the trick. Zhentil Keep have always been a thorn in the side of the above mentioned. And I bet that if opportunity would arise, then you could throw in a few chosen of Mystra as well. I know Storm wouldn't mind spilling the blood of a few zhents. I don't think ol' El would have trouble with it either. The point of my previous post wasn't about how strong Zhentil Keep is or was for that matter. My point was: If you want to strike a heavy blow against the Church of Bane then you could attack and destroy Zhentil Keep. If you want to strike a heavy blow against the Church of Cyric then good luck in finding a spot to attack because Cyric's church does not have any main center of worship. It's kinda like modern day Iraq and the modern day terrorists (again sorry for mentioning those 2). Bane's church being Iraq and Cyric's church being the terrorists. Which of the two problems has the world had the most succes in handling? That's right, Iraq. Why? Because people knew where they had to put their efforts in trying to handle the problem. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 17:35:00
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| Cherrn, I kinda agree with your analogy, but Bane's Church is a lot stronger than Iraq if compared as a country. Also, Elminster wouldn't go attack Zhentil Keep unless it directly affects Shadowdale and also he is a bit weak right now after Eliminster in Hell. This "united army" you mention wouldn't happen because Cormyr has too much trouble in their own land already and none of these countries can even stand each other. Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 22:14:04
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When the Horde attacked Faerun an allied army consisting of Zhentil Keep's troops, Cormyr's troops, and Sembia's troops + a lot of other nations met the Horde on the Golden Way in Thesk and defeated it. I think it is quite clear that above mentioned nations can't stand eachother yet still they allied against a common threat, a common foe if you will. Zhentil Keep and the church of Bane being a common foe of above mentioned, then please tell me, based on the facts that the nations have allied before, why would they never ally since they can't stand eachother ? Lol.
And honestly, you said that Zhentil keep is stronger than ever. How the hell can a city that lost 75% of it's entire population during the raze be stronger than ever ? |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 23:13:13
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| Cherrn, yes I knew you were gonna mention the Horde. Lol. But is Zhentil Keep that powerful? Also, the Horde is different from the Church of Bane. Bane isn't going to be very happy if his followers are slaughtered and his Chosen is killed. BTW, read the things I wrote in my last post about how there probably isn't going to be another army like that. Also, Zhentil Keep is mostly rebuilt now and the population is rising AND I've never said that Zhentil Keep is "stronger than ever". I said it was "stronger" now with the Zhentarim and the Church of Bane there. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 12:11:26
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| The Zhentarim was there before. So was the Church of Bane. And the alliance could happen since the mentioned nations also hated eachother when the Horde invaded. And I don't believe that the city is stronger now. As stated in the FRCS, the northern part of the city hasn't been rebuilt yet. The only things that has been rebuilt is the harbor, the bridges Force and Tesh and some of the wall. The current population of the keep is 15000, as far as I remember it was 85000 before the city was sacked. That, and the fact that Zhentil Keep has a garrison of 2000 men! Hillsfar themselves could take the city if they wanted. So no, honestly Zhentil Keep is not stronger. It is a lot weaker than it was before 1368. Lol. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Worst threat to Faerun?
