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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 17:34:44
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| Well, if Faiths & Pantheons is any use Shar is a more powerful deity than Cyric, regardless of the sizes of their churchs. First, the numbers in Lords of Darkness are kind weird, in that they are small regarding the number of worshippers. The only logicla conclusion I can draw is that the numbers of followers listed is that of who are part of the respective churches, and does not represent their worshippers at large. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 22:10:42
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| Yeah that's right Edain. One could say that the 250000 estimated followers of Cyric are the one's who worship him and only him. After all, a large part of the people of Faerun are known to not worship a single god solely, but rather paying lipservice to a whole host of gods. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 23:14:09
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| That is a good point, Cherrn. Honestly, I try not to trust too closely the numbers provided by Wizards, since they can be innaccurate when compared with rules regarding the numbers, such as the number of followers a deity needs versus has. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 12:04:15
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| you are right as usaley Cherrn. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 01:19:28
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| Of course, this who discussion of numbers of worshippers leaves me wondering if that is all that would matter in a divine conflict. It seems that most discussions over who would win a divine conflict revolve around divine rank which, while important, I cannot envision being the only things that decides a conflict. While the formost concerns in a such a conflict, greater gods are greater gods, and I think that it would not matter nearly as much as who is smarter, more determined, more willing to take risks, has a better plan, whatever. Still, it seems it tends to comes down to worshippers, and I just have trouble buying it. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 02:23:54
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| Well statwise it is nearly impossible for greater gods to kill eachother. They can do heal at will. Basically you would have to dish out enough damage to kill the greater god entirely within a round, otherwise you are back to square one. A greater god never fails anything, only successes. In the end it comes down to who has the highest init mod. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 14:17:08
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| init mod and that is ? |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 15:57:05
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| initiative modifier. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 00:26:23
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yes then Cyric wins as usaley  . |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 00:43:18
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| Mystra can have some ultra contingency spells. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 03:39:48
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| A greater god vs greater god fight would always end in a stalemate, unless of course the GM wants it otherwise. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 17:15:05
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so a war of the greater gods would last forever... |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 00:49:56
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| I don't think so... there have been many battles of the gods in the past and there's often a winner and loser. For example, Tempus and Garugauth (sp?). |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 03:25:23
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| I think the problem with predicting the winners of a divine conflict is people often rely too heavily on the statistics provided in Faiths & Pantheons, which, aside from being pre-Epic Level Handbook and very flawed, are also not the entire picture in a divine conflict. Rarely when deities come into conflict does their confrontation result in a face-to-face fight. Usually they scheme, betray, spy, assassinate, trick, and surprise, resorting ot almost any means to win. Of course, certain deities, like Torm, would only fight face-to-face, but gods of Torm's kind are not aggressors and are typically well insulated from attack (i.e. they have powerful friends, like Torm has Tyr and Illmater). Take the death of Leira for instance, Mask and Cyric plotted to assasinate her, working together to likely take her by surprise and then conceal her death. I seriously doubt that Cyric, Mask, or Leira came face-to-face, more like Leira got a quick stab in the back with Godsbane. In truth, few deities other than Torm, Lathander, Tyr, and maybe Tempus really care about honor and fair play. Of course, some deities are so far and a away more powerulf they simply cannot be attacked, like Chauntea. Like with all good roleplaying, it is not always about statistics. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 14:01:25
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I don't think so... there have been many battles of the gods in the past and there's often a winner and loser. For example, Tempus and Garugauth (sp?).
Tempus is a greater god, Gargauth wasn't. That's why Tempus won the fight. I said, judging by stats and abilities of Greater Gods a fight between 2 of them would always end in a stalemate since they couldn't kill eachother
UNLESS
the GM wanted it otherwise. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 14:05:19
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| the other way Tempus was a demigod and Gargauth was greater god |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 16:50:05
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| Where does it say that exactly Cyric ? |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 17:06:02
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| in faiths and pantheons, it says he eventualley came in conflict with the young demigod Tempus |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2004 : 20:53:58
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| Thanks. I had forgotten where it was said. Again, it would never ever happen if game mechanics was followed. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 00:45:22
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| Cherrn, most novels don't follow game mechanics. Also, if what you say is true, how are some PCs able to kill Greater Gods and take their place? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 02:39:51
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| Not Gargauth, but Garagos. In fact, it is Targus, the Netherese god of war. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 03:08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Cherrn, most novels don't follow game mechanics. Also, if what you say is true, how are some PCs able to kill Greater Gods and take their place?
As I said earlier, it will happen if the GM allows it to happen. The GM is also the writer of a novel, he tells a story after all.
And I would like an example of a mortal killing a greater god.
Without mentioning Bhaal, who was killed by Mask in the form of Godsbane, and Myrkul who was killed by Midnight heavily imbued with the divine power of Mystra. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 03:23:09
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Cherrn, those examples you made are from the Times of Trouble, where the gods don't have all their powers.
I'm pointing out about how the PCs that play AD&D are able to kill gods. Now, I'm not talking about the DM giving them an advantage or something, but just fighting a god with the stats its given in a manual. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 11:26:52
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| With the stats given in the manual, a mortal wouldn't be able to kill a greater god in DnD 3rd edition. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 13:44:42
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| but a demi or lesser would fall i do belive |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 00:45:51
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| And from there-on one could build ones way up! |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2004 : 17:55:11
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| that one could... |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 12:37:08
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| Maby one would end up as the Worst Threat to Faerűn? |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
Edited by - EcThelion on 12 Feb 2004 12:37:34 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 14:23:20
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and maby Cyric is the worse treat to Faerun....
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Worst threat to Faerun?
