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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 05:42:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Unless the followers of the dead gods can reach the astral planes where the dead gods bodies are found, they may have an opportunity of bringing them to life.
Given the events in the conclusion to a popular novel series, I stand by my belief that regardless of what has been put down in a gaming product, when it comes to gods or characters returning from the dead where there is an author/designer's will, there will be a way for it to happen. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 08:27:58
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| Well true indeed, we hope we will see some dead good and bad gods return to power. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 09:07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Unless the followers of the dead gods can reach the astral planes where the dead gods bodies are found, they may have an opportunity of bringing them to life.
Given the events in the conclusion to a popular novel series, I stand by my belief that regardless of what has been put down in a gaming product, when it comes to gods or characters returning from the dead where there is an author/designer's will, there will be a way for it to happen.
Very true. And, I agree.
Although, I've not yet completed the reading of the concluding novel in this popular series, so I can't comment on that. However, from a campaign perspective, I will say that regardless of what has been written in both sourcebooks and novels, if the need for a dead god rising is necessary for the story I'm telling, I will also find a way for it to happen.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 11:33:26
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| I, too, am of the opinion that a trip to the Astral isn't the only way to raise a dead god... Though I am inclined to say there's got to be at least some sort of contact with the corpse. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 12:44:16
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Good points. Anyone with theories on which ones might return and be a threat or help with a threat to Faerun?
I think the most likely one to come back would be Bhaal. The assassin's portfolio is still hanging out there (perhaps he still secretly has it somehow?) and with the return of his ally Bane, I think he has the best chances of any evil deity to come back. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 14:15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though I am inclined to say there's got to be at least some sort of contact with the corpse.
Even if he/she is only partially dead? 
quote:
Chosen of Bane
I think the most likely one to come back would be Bhaal. The assassin's portfolio is still hanging out there (perhaps he still secretly has it somehow?) and with the return of his ally Bane, I think he has the best chances of any evil deity to come back.
Good point. I'm firmly convinced that WOTC will eventually have return most if not all the evil Gods that perished during the ToT. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 14:44:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, too, am of the opinion that a trip to the Astral isn't the only way to raise a dead god... Though I am inclined to say there's got to be at least some sort of contact with the corpse.
It would likely depend on the length of time since the deity's death, because recall that a dead god isle afloat in the Silvery Void is bound to attract attention.
Sages have recorded instances of githyanki fortresses being erected almost immediately upon the surface of a newly formed dead god... almost as if they had some sense of the particular deity's demise and its impending arrival upon the Astral.
In addition, there are uncomfirmed reports made by several Mezzalite Free Traders that Arcane/Mercane have been harvesting the valuable yith sholv, or "godheart"... from the centers of very ancient god isles. Godheart is a strange ruddy red metal that seems to be the result of prolonged divine energy decay upon the Astral. The material hungrily absorbs divine energy siphoning the husk of a dead god isle entirely should an adequate amount of time pass.
If a traveller or worship is intending on initiating contact with the remnant consciousness of a dead god, time would quite literally appear to be of the essence.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2005 : 17:40:47
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though I am inclined to say there's got to be at least some sort of contact with the corpse.
Even if he/she is only partially dead?
Granted, it would take a miracle...  |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2005 : 01:41:17
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
With LEoF's sections on dead Gods and worshipping them, I find it even more likely that several dead gods will return in the future...
Good points. Anyone with theories on which ones might return and be a threat or help with a threat to Faerun?
Hmm... well, I could actually see some of the Untheric gods coming back. It would certainly stir things up with the Mulhorndi (sp?) gods. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Adarin
Acolyte
30 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 12:37:31
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| Hmm, so many threats to Faerun being listed...so can I ask which threat to Faerun is considered the greatest and most imminent? |
There will always be parting of ways which is never of your preference. |
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Carion Hunter
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 12:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Adarin
Hmm, so many threats to Faerun being listed...so can I ask which threat to Faerun is considered the greatest and most imminent?
Which one most imminent and the greatest? Guess I think I will need time to think about it. |
Wanna throw me out? You gotta think thrice about that. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 03:19:33
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Hmm...so many threats. Which one imminent?
Well maybe I will rank the threats I think is the most imminent and most dangerous to Faerun.
1) The Dark Gods-Bane, Cyric, Shar, Talona and the other active dark gods. It is hard to tell what they are plotting.
2) Sammaster and his dracoliches-given their cells are spread across Faerun and the fact that Sammaster is a Lich, it is very difficult to take them all down.
3) Shade Enclave, especially Telamont Tanthul-He seems to be ready to return again with bigger surprises, no doubt nasty.
4) The Malaugrym-though defeated, Their ability to shapeshift can allow them to sow discord and chaos in the realms.
5) The Phaerimm-They won't give up on Evereska that easily, they will not hesitate to kill anyone which they consider are threat to their plans.
6) Zhentarim-They are still pretty active and full of evil.
7) The orcs in the Northern mountains of the Spine of the world-since they have a leader who seems to be blessed by Grummsh, hard to tell what they are plotting.
8) The drow elves-Those that are still evil and loyal to the Spider Queen, heard that they are training to be resistant to daylight in hidden places on the surface world so they can conquer the surface world.
9) The Thayvian Red Wizards.
10) The Iron Throne.
I guess these are the top ten threats to Faerun, well corrections are welcome anyway.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 05:52:04
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I won't really call the Malaugryms and the Phaerimm large threats to Faerun anymore. After all, there's only about 5 Malaugryms on Faerun and they're probably the only powerful villains who have learned their lesson, and gone reclusive.
As for the Phaerimms, they are basically wiped out from the events of RotA and the Shade Enclave would not let them roam free around Faerun. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 07:47:28
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| Five? Hmm, let me think, myth drannor still has approximately forty more phaerimm in it, though they only aid their cousins in Anauroch when they deem necessary. The Shadovar are now in some limbo off the material plane, but may try to seek them out but not too fast as afterall, Prince Escanor and his shadovar guards are seriously wounded at the battle of the High Ice though the phaerimm are disguised as Chosen. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 19:13:59
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| Myth Drannor doesn't even have forty phaerimms around anymore. There USED to be before RotA, but then the Shade army and the battle with Shadowdale wiped out quite a few. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:34:35
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| That means less than ten remaining in Myth Drannor. But given the reproduction mechanisms of the phaerimm, I think they can find a few worthy(if not unlucky) hosts such as orcs and drow in the ruins of the city, I guess they can get back forty, *chuckles, just for humor* |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:51:19
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| Shadovar, don't you think if the phaerimm could reproduce so easily, they would've done it by now? The phaerimm have existed since the Age of Nethril, but even during the events of RotA, their number didn't even reach 500. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Carion Hunter
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 03:43:43
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| Then perhaps I will list another bigger threat than the phaerimm. I say the demons that the Hellgate Keep is spewing out is another major concern to be noted. As silverymoon and some cities are near the cursed place, it can be major threat o the surrounding regions, who knows when a balor may pop out for a visit? |
Wanna throw me out? You gotta think thrice about that. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 05:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Carion Hunter
Then perhaps I will list another bigger threat than the phaerimm. I say the demons that the Hellgate Keep is spewing out is another major concern to be noted. As silverymoon and some cities are near the cursed place, it can be major threat o the surrounding regions, who knows when a balor may pop out for a visit?
I think Turlang has got that under control... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 08:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert:
I think Turlang has got that under control...
Well, pardon my asking, can I inquire who is Turlang? And where does he hail from? |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 15 May 2005 08:43:44 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert:
I think Turlang has got that under control...
Well, pardon my asking, can I inquire who is Turlang? And where does he hail from?
Turlang is the treant who is "da bigg boss" of the high forest. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:32:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert:
I think Turlang has got that under control...
Well, pardon my asking, can I inquire who is Turlang? And where does he hail from?
Try the Savage Frontier 2e tome, and the Lost Empires of Faerun sourcebook for more details on the treant known as Turlang.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Adarin
Acolyte
30 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 09:40:17
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| I guess Turlang is pretty zealous about protecting nature and is pretty against evil magics such as Shadow Magic(evident in the Return of the Archwizards book 1 when he tried to refuse Melegaunt entry into his forest) and evil demons as well. |
There will always be parting of ways which is never of your preference. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 13:10:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Adarin
I guess Turlang is pretty zealous about protecting nature and is pretty against evil magics such as Shadow Magic(evident in the Return of the Archwizards book 1 when he tried to refuse Melegaunt entry into his forest) and evil demons as well.
Are there good demons? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 14:53:54
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| I don't know if this counts, but there's that good drow, what's his name again? I guess there's a chance for good demons if an author decides to make one. |
Edited by - Paec_djinn on 15 May 2005 14:57:55 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 16:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Paec_djinn
I don't know if this counts, but there's that good drow, what's his name again? I guess there's a chance for good demons if an author decides to make one.
The difference is that full-blooded demons are inherently evil. Half-breeds and tieflings can rise above this but I don`t know if full demons can. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 21:10:00
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There are good demons, but they are VERY VERY rare. I mean, you could find a whole city of good drow before you can find a good pure blood demon. Lol.
If I remember correctly, WotC has a succubus paladin... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 02:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Adarin
I guess Turlang is pretty zealous about protecting nature and is pretty against evil magics such as Shadow Magic(evident in the Return of the Archwizards book 1 when he tried to refuse Melegaunt entry into his forest) and evil demons as well.
Are there good demons?
As DDH_101 just said, there has been a succubus paladin detailed, and it was in a 2e RL tome as I recall.
As for "good" demons... well it all depends on what you mean by "good". Only truly reformed demons, who have specifically chosen to do good rather than evil can actually be said to be "good". But the path of redemption for a demon is much harder than the descent into evil for a celestial. There is more of a need to continually prove one's spirit is "good" during the demon's redemption.
Of course, if you follow the theory that nearly all of the primordial fiends are actually fallen archons, then the argument for redemption becomes a little easier, because it would seem that there is an apparent aspect of "good" to their beings that will always remain.
But overall, a demon can be "good". However, the chance of actually finding one who hasn't been eliminated already by its fellows is rarer than trying to find a sober man in one of Luskan's seediest taverns...  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2005 : 03:11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Adarin
I guess Turlang is pretty zealous about protecting nature and is pretty against evil magics such as Shadow Magic(evident in the Return of the Archwizards book 1 when he tried to refuse Melegaunt entry into his forest) and evil demons as well.
Are there good demons?
As DDH_101 just said, there has been a succubus paladin detailed, and it was in a 2e RL tome as I recall.
As for "good" demons... well it all depends on what you mean by "good". Only truly reformed demons, who have specifically chosen to do good rather than evil can actually be said to be "good". But the path of redemption for a demon is much harder than the descent into evil for a celestial. There is more of a need to continually prove one's spirit is "good" during the demon's redemption.
Of course, if you follow the theory that nearly all of the primordial fiends are actually fallen archons, then the argument for redemption becomes a little easier, because it would seem that there is an apparent aspect of "good" to their beings that will always remain.
But overall, a demon can be "good". However, the chance of actually finding one who hasn't been eliminated already by its fellows is rarer than trying to find a sober man in one of Luskan's seediest taverns... .
Or, to go with my fave analogy: harder to find than a vegetarian Malarite... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Worst threat to Faerun?
