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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 00:49:58
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| I already have an entire boxed set on Zhentil Keep. I'm looking for more information on the underdeveloped cities and regions of the Moonsea. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 02:58:57
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If you read back through the previous 5 pages of this topic, you'll find that this book is definitely NOT focused on Zhentil Keep, but on all of Moonsea. Given all the pages devoted to the Zhentarim in various other FR supplements, I am also liking the idea of seeing other cities fleshed out. I'm hoping we get to learn more about some of the players in Thentia as well, along the lines of the noble families detailed in Sons of Gruumsh. I've got a couple of alternate plot lines in Melvaunt from that information alone...
Maybe a detailed dungeon for the Bell in the Deep? Nah, that's just crazy talk...
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Edited by - Ahwe Yahzhe on 16 Feb 2006 03:00:25 |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 17:11:18
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I also started my FR campaign in Phlan...
... did he really say, that Phlan will not be covered?
... HOW DARE YOU?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2006 : 16:53:22
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| Citadel of the Raven needs a map and a good write up :P |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 02:06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Citadel of the Raven needs a map and a good write up :P
There is a map and a write-up. Whether it's good or not . . .
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2006 : 21:12:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Citadel of the Raven needs a map and a good write up :P
There is a map and a write-up. Whether it's good or not . . .
Thomas
In this new book? :) Anything about it would be welcome. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 01:45:42
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Well, I had one full page on which to present it in map form. Anyone who knows anything about the Citadel of the Raven knows you cannot exhuastively map it out on one page. So I produced a small-scale map of the entire series of towers, walls, and tunnels as an inset, then provided "sample" maps for the towers, as well as a slightly more detailed (and partial) map of the main citadel.
The textual description is much the same. You could fill an entire book with details, so I had to hit the highlights. But all in all, I think it's more useful than the map and descriptions that appeared in the 2E Moonsea product.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 08:26:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
Well, I had one full page on which to present it in map form. Anyone who knows anything about the Citadel of the Raven knows you cannot exhuastively map it out on one page. So I produced a small-scale map of the entire series of towers, walls, and tunnels as an inset, then provided "sample" maps for the towers, as well as a slightly more detailed (and partial) map of the main citadel.
The textual description is much the same. You could fill an entire book with details, so I had to hit the highlights. But all in all, I think it's more useful than the map and descriptions that appeared in the 2E Moonsea product.
Thomas
Well met
Splendid news  The Citadel of the Raven material in 2e Moonsea was a highlight for me and I longed for an expansion on this. I'm even more excited about this tome than I was before! |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 13:46:35
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Indeed, that is good to hear. And it'll arrive just in time for me to complete a little project on the Black Network that I've had on the back burner for quite a while now.
Great indeed!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 03:20:32
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| Will Vaasa get covered in Mysteries of the Moonsea or will that have to wait for a Cold Lands source book? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 16:38:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Will Vaasa get covered in Mysteries of the Moonsea or will that have to wait for a Cold Lands source book?
There's nothing on Vaasa in MotM.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 23:48:24
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Will any of the remaining Baneliches get a writeup (I suppose Chembryl didn't destroy all of them  ) ??
Will there be anything about the Burnbones of Cyric ??
Thanks !! |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 23:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Torkwaret
Will any of the remaining Baneliches get a writeup (I suppose Chembryl didn't destroy all of them ) ??
Will there be anything about the Burnbones of Cyric ??
No to both, as far as I know. There's probably enough lore of the area in old products to make a book three times the size MotM is going to be -- it just won't all fit.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 23:42:49
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April and Beyond is up
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060406a
and it turns out Mysteries of the Moonsea's isnt a regional source book after all its a book of modules that loosely fit together...
I have to say Im disappointed I would much rahter have got a Moonsea Regional source book 
This also means we have NO Regional source books for the FR this year  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 00:28:10
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It may not be a total loss... There's still plenty of potential for Realmslore, especially with this line:
quote:
In addition to the adventures, this book presents maps and descriptions of the major Moonsea cities of Melvaunt, Hillsfar, Mulmaster, and Zhentil Keep, as well as statistics and descriptions for 15 important campaign villains.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 00:45:50
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Sad news indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
This also means we have NO Regional source books for the FR this year
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 00:57:02
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Hey, it's a Realms product. By a bunch of authors who churn out good stuff. Sounds good to me.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:46:41
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| As I understand it, this is still a regional sourcebook, but taking a different approach to presenting the material. In some ways I think scenarios can convey lore and a practical portrayal of what places are like better than traditional sourcebooks, so I guess this is what's been aimed at here. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 01:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
As I understand it, this is still a regional sourcebook, but taking a different approach to presenting the material. In some ways I think scenarios can convey lore and a practical portrayal of what places are like better than traditional sourcebooks, so I guess this is what's been aimed at here.
37 loosely connected adventures are not a regional Source book
and personally Im not interested in in new formats I reckon they got the Regional source book Format right with City of Splendors and they should use that from now on |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It may not be a total loss... There's still plenty of potential for Realmslore, especially with this line:
quote:
In addition to the adventures, this book presents maps and descriptions of the major Moonsea cities of Melvaunt, Hillsfar, Mulmaster, and Zhentil Keep, as well as statistics and descriptions for 15 important campaign villains.
Oh, that sounds good.
The descriptions themselves should also provide a brief snapshot of current events around the Moonsea itself, I hope.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:26:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
This also means we have NO Regional source books for the FR this year
We still don't know that...
As I said in the other scroll when you discussed upcoming D&D/FR/EB releases for the year so far... we're still too early in the year to know what exactly is planned for Q4 Realms releases. We know Ed's been hard at work on several projects, he's said as much recently. One or two of those may in fact be Realms-product related and still to be finalised which is why we have yet to learn of it.
I wouldn't make any definitive judgments on whether or not we'll see another FR regional book until a little later in the year.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 16:06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
and it turns out Mysteries of the Moonsea's isnt a regional source book after all its a book of modules that loosely fit together...
Now that the cat is out of the bag a little bit, I can say that it was something of a misnomer to refer to it as a regional sourcebook. I think that appellation stuck around because this was originally going to be a RS, and they decided to change it, to try something new.
I know the lack of a true RS is going to disappoint some of you, and there is certainly something to be said for the, "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" mentality, but I have to say, from personal experience, that I was excited about this different approach. It was a chance to detail out some of the region without all the crunchy bits -- PrCs, spells, magic items, etc. I know people crave more and more of those things, and this isn't a commentary on you at all, but for myself, coming up with new and interesting crunchy bits is just getting old. I'm probably in the minority, but the game to me isn't getting better by adding more corner cases and exotic abilities; it's just getting more difficult to manage.
It's like a collectible card game with a ton of expansion packs -- how can you possibly choose which cards to put in your deck? There are ten times as many as you will ever need/use. By the same token, how can you possibly figure out which spells to take/PrC to strive for/feat to include? It stops being a roleplaying experience and becomes an exercise in effective deck construction. But that's just my attitiude; your mileage may vary.
Regardless, the book is really something of a hybrid -- it's not JUST an adventure (or collection of mini-adventures, to be precise), and it's not JUST the locale details inherent in an RS. It's got a little of both. We'll see how it flies, but writing it was refreshing.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
Edited by - Thomas M. Reid on 07 Apr 2006 16:12:04 |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 17:21:29
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Hello-
Thanks for your input Thomas!
I am quite sure that many of the people who are this point somewhat disappointed will still buy the book - and I hope that it will go a long ways towards helping them use the Moonsea area in any case!
The maps and NPC ststistics mentioned should be worth quite a lot - and I'm sure there is Lore placed around a bit!
Personally - I agree about the additional PrC's and other items. Certainly - there are some I'd like to still see created - but for the most part - enough is enough. Personally - when I've recently made 3.5 edition characters - it seems like a TASK to make a feat decision - and as you get so few of them - that intensifies the matter. I tend to gravitate towards Improved Initative myself. That - and if you want to 'possibly' get XYZ PrC - you almost have to have that idea in mind from the get-go - so that you can choose the correct feats and such to get there. I used to just play my characters - and they grew as I played them - but that was in the days before PrC's and having to 'plan ahead' to get them.
Anyway - I'm personally quite looking forward to the book!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 17:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
It was a chance to detail out some of the region without all the crunchy bits -- PrCs, spells, magic items, etc. I know people crave more and more of those things, and this isn't a commentary on you at all, but for myself, coming up with new and interesting crunchy bits is just getting old. I'm probably in the minority, but the game to me isn't getting better by adding more corner cases and exotic abilities; it's just getting more difficult to manage.
Thomas
Actually from the three main message boards I read/have read, the opposite is mostly true. Many people are tired of the more feats, skills, spells, etc. It's been complained about for years now.... Course, this is just my experience from the three boards I read/have read. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 18:58:03
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Personally, I'm already tired of the feats PrCs etc. As Thomas pointed out, it seems like a collectible card game, so to speak. I'd like to see some statistics on what players want... then again, do never believe a statistic you didn't forge yourself.
'tis a ROLE-playing game after all...not a ROLL-playing game... with all them feats etc it is very easy to mini-max. Powerplayers rejoice at this stuff... I don't |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 19:21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Actually from the three main message boards I read/have read, the opposite is mostly true. Many people are tired of the more feats, skills, spells, etc. It's been complained about for years now.... Course, this is just my experience from the three boards I read/have read.
Of course, I'm going to agree.
It seems the trend has finally started to shift away in some places, just a little, from the "crunchy" elements of the 3e FR to more factual-based material and lore.
It's not a broad and expansive trend encompassing the entire FR online community mind you... but there are pockets here and there of fans that have started looking for something other than the latest feat or PrC for their campaigns.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 Apr 2006 19:23:15 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 20:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Actually from the three main message boards I read/have read, the opposite is mostly true. Many people are tired of the more feats, skills, spells, etc. It's been complained about for years now.... Course, this is just my experience from the three boards I read/have read.
Of course, I'm going to agree.
It seems the trend has finally started to shift away in some places, just a little, from the "crunchy" elements of the 3e FR to more factual-based material and lore.
It's not a broad and expansive trend encompassing the entire FR online community mind you... but there are pockets here and there of fans that have started looking for something other than the latest feat or PrC for their campaigns.
Well met
Indeed. In fact this is the first year in a good 15+ years that there are core books which i'm NOT going to purchase. It's been hard to overcome, but I decided that as far as core crunch is concerned, enough is enough.
I've heard many comments around the web too regarding 4th edition D&D, stating that when it arrives, it will spell the end of a few fans core spending. I know i'm in that category, i'll have enough core books to last me a lifetime and i'll stick purely with FR sourcebooks for the fluff. i'd much rather have D&D core focus on pure rules, and campaign sourcebooks be 85%+ fluff 
Of course, let's not get into this discussion in this particular scroll
I'm quite happy with Thomas' news. I'm still quite excited to see the coverage on Citadel of the Raven however, but quite agree with the "if it aint broke..." way of thinking. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 21:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
I know the lack of a true RS is going to disappoint some of you, and there is certainly something to be said for the, "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" mentality, but I have to say, from personal experience, that I was excited about this different approach. It was a chance to detail out some of the region without all the crunchy bits -- PrCs, spells, magic items, etc. I know people crave more and more of those things, and this isn't a commentary on you at all, but for myself, coming up with new and interesting crunchy bits is just getting old. I'm probably in the minority, but the game to me isn't getting better by adding more corner cases and exotic abilities; it's just getting more difficult to manage.
I'm going to have to throw my hat into this ring as well.
From a DM and player's perspective, all the variant PrCs, feats, and spells at least (there aren't actually a lot of new magic items displayed... more like new properties), many of which aren't going to have a lot of general use are getting so voluminous that it seems like a real bear to manage. It's like all those robot toys in the 80s, where the difference between Megator and Megatee was that Megator was painted black and Megatee was painted blue, or where various G.I. Joe figures shared the same torso, legs, or pelvis pieces.
It will be nice to see them take an approach of "here's some fluff and here's how you can use it" for a book or two, to see how it works.
Because, to me, what makes a regional setting books isn't regional feats or regional PrCs, it's all the sprucing up of regional information and new tidbits of what Fzoul & the Zhents are up to and how it's pissing off Maalithir. I could care less about a PrC for a Hillsfar Gladiator or a Moonsea Pirate who has special powers to make the Bell in the Deep sound out "Sweet Home Alabama." |
Edited by - GungHo on 07 Apr 2006 21:41:18 |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 23:08:46
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I personally am very excited at the concept that seems to lie behind Mysteries of the Moonsea. I mean, the background fluff hasn't changed much. The main thing people wanted from a regional Moonsea book was a) an update on the Zhentarim and b) an update on Phlan (which frankly, I'm not particularly interested in). Assuming (and I think the cover gives us a hint) that the a number at least of the adventures would involve opposing the Zhentarim, slipping in the information that advances the timeline will have been a simple matter.
I think I few people who are disappointed in what the book "seems" to be will be happy when they read it and find out what it "is".
I mean, books like Shining South and Serpent Kingdoms have had probably 90 pages devoted to crunch. Take that out, and you've got a bit more space to tell the FR's story. |
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Arthedain
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 23:16:10
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Well, as Thomas said, the cat is crawling out of the bag. As a regular lurker, and very infrequent poster on these boards, I must admit that I'm curious and very much looking forward to this book. We've known for quite some time that it wasn't going to be an A4-standard-done-it-before regional sourcebook (not that there's anything wrong with it), and I can very much understand Thomas' excitement in writing the book.
What struck me when reading that it would be a campaign arc of 37 scenarios/loosely connected adventures is that it is a great idea. How many of you out there have been running large, perhaps semi-epic scope modules and reaching a point where you feel that you would like a break from the adventure, but not with new characters. I know I have... The players very much like their characters, and want them to have fun and interesting adventures, but after killing the 478th drow in session number 13 in the Underdark.... yawn. If I could break up the campaign in smaller, more manageble chunks that might help.
Yes, I know that I, as a DM, should come up with interesting and fun side treks, but real life time constraints, a lack of inspiration (killing drow forever hurts me too :( ) and sometimes just plain old lazyness makes me just reach for my Realms library and think "were could I get some ideas for mini-adventures??"
An example: At the moment I'm running City of the Spider Queen, and as written, there's a limited timeframe and I feel like I'm just pushing my friends and their characters further and further, and in the process the fun is slowly but steadily disappearing because the players never get a break from doing what they've been doing for the last year - wandering through the Underdark, killing monsters. Other examples (some of which I've tried running, others not): Axe of the Dwarvish Lords ... Rod of Seven Parts ... The Night Below (though if I remember correctly it had minor adventure ideas here and there which could be used in between the main plotline)... even Red Hand of Doom (which looks great btw).
Now, if I can flip open Mysteries of the Moonsea, and find some cool adventure ideas for my group, and perhaps use them to create a grand plotline, than that sounds all right in my book :). Instead of just stealing an encounter here, and a site there, I can construct my campaign by larger modules, so to speak. And since I'm a trusting fellow, I trust you people at Wizards to give me an idea or two on each scenerio that helps me tie the pieces together. For instance: "The scenario 'The Harper, the Zhent, and the Red Wizard" ties in well with 'For A Few Zhents More' [what are gold coins from Zhentil Keep called anyway?], especially if one of the players is a Harper with a strong affection for sigars... etc". And with all the Realmslore that is sprinkled in between I'll probably be coming up with several scenarios of my own too.
Bottom line:
new and refreshing - yay
Hope this made some sense... it's late, and my brain has gone on easter vacation :). |
Edited by - Arthedain on 07 Apr 2006 23:23:38 |
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Mysteries of Moonsea?!?
