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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 01:31:21
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George, I think that format might be some of the issue. Personally I think that if they had used the first half as a "standard" sourcebook, and used the end for the campaign arc, and if they had cut out the full stats for the "villains" of the various regions and just given them as "barebones" and background, then maybe wedged in some more on Thentia and Phlan, it might have changed some of the perspective.
Personally, from the stuff I have looked at in depth, I have liked it overall. Not my favorite, but overall positive. I wonder if anyone has done a breakdown on how much space that is normally taken up by PrCs, for example, was used for lore this time? And how much space is normally taken up by the "encounter region" style adventures in the regional sourcebooks? I am curious, because it may be surprising to see how much space really did go to traditional sourcebook type information when you factor in those things . . . |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 02:48:33
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In wading through this thread, the one thing that struck me almost immediately was how MoM would have been received so much better if it had followed a 'standard' regional sourcebook on The Moonsea. That way you've got the setting and the adventure arc and they both support each other. Maybe WotC should consider that as a 'business/design model'.
-- George Krashos
And if the adventures had been better/longer. Cause as it is, none of the adventures were that interesting. |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 02:58:28
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KEJR, George, and David E just re-emphasized my earlier point. I felt that the format was the problem, not the writers (just want to state that point, I thought they did a great job with what hey had to do).
I liked it, too, just not as much as a regular sourcebook. It wasn't as good as it could have been with a different format.
Actually, David E and I have many of the same experiences. I also missed out on the 2nd edition and did not game for many years. I came back just when 3.5 came out, gamed with a group that used FR as a setting, got hooked, and have grabbed all 3e sourcebooks and some 2e also. I have also been consuming FR novels at a rapid pace, about 30 or so in a year and a half. I did have the old grey boxed set when it came out, however.
I agree with nearly all of David E's points and would also belong in that minority, which may not be as much of a minority as he suspects.
Mkhaiwati |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 04:25:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrin Drader
Just an update for interested parties, the web enhancement for Mysteries of the Moonsea has been completed and will be turned into WotC after the other freelancers on the book have had a chance to look at it. Regarding the suggestions I received earlier in this thread, I'd like to thank everyone who came up with stuff. Some suggestions were used, some were not.
I know it takes WotC a while to get this stuff through editing and cartography, so it will probably still be a couple months before this appears on the website. Some material was taken from the 2E Moonsea supplement and Ruins of Adventure, while a lot of material is completely original. Also, just so you know, the original work was commissioned at 10,000 words, which is more than twice as long as the average web enhancement. The actual length of the document I put together was over 16,000 words. That's more than half of one of the chapters that appeared in the book. In other words, I put some extra work in on this that I didn't have to. I hope that it will be well received when it's released.
Bane willing it wont take the 9 months it took Wizards to publish the 2nd CoS WE |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Darrin Drader
Forgotten Realms Designer
16 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 08:34:03
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quote:
Bane willing it wont take the 9 months it took Wizards to publish the 2nd CoS WE
Well, I am still waiting for them to get that D20 Apocalypse enhancement I wrote published.  |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 09:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrin Drader
quote:
Bane willing it wont take the 9 months it took Wizards to publish the 2nd CoS WE
Well, I am still waiting for them to get that D20 Apocalypse enhancement I wrote published.
Yeah, it seems to take a while to get the WE and other articles up. I'm waiting on a a rules related article that I submitted. Part of the problem is that we don't get to see the finished manuscript until shortly before the book comes out. That means that any WE we write probably won't be available until at least a few months after the book's release. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 21:47:08
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I have to say that I really got some good ideas from reading the Hillsfar section in combination with the information from Final Gate. I think I could throw together a pretty fun campaign based on adding the two together. Since it may lead to some spoilers from Final Gate, I'll "cloak" the campaign ideas that I came up with while reading this section of the book:
First off, based on Final Gate we know that Maalthiir has fled the city, the Red Plumes are going to be expelled, and a Council of Lords is in charge of the city until Fzoul appoints the new head of the city.
Castle Maalthiir is to be turned into a temple of Bane, and Fzoul is going to appoint the high preist of this temple as well.
Knowing all of this, this is how I would look at the information for a campaign run in this region taking into account the Final Gate events and Mysteries of the Moonsea.
When Fzoul decides to appoint his leader of the city, Mordak, who is now no longer being taunted by Maalthiir control, comes forward and reasons to Fzoul that he would be the natural head of the city, being the servant of Maalthiir, but having plotted for years against him. Mordak also has a history of trying to get ahold of the Zhentarim, although he has also tried to stir up issues with them to get Hillsfar more active in taking on new holdings. At any rate, Fzoul agrees, and Mordak is put in charge of Hillsfar, as the head of the Lord's Council.
All of the members of the Lord's Council are basically people granted titles by Maalthiir as a sign of favor and as a formal way to tell the Red Plumes and the Rogue's Guild to leave them alone. The Red Plumes that were working with Mordak are allowed to stay in the city, under different names, as the new city Guard. Swipe is also instructed to "loose" any members of the guild that are too loyal to Maalthiir, thus allowing more of the wererats to gain positions in the guild.
There are not enough able bodied soldiers left to form a viable city guard alone, so Zhentil Keep "graciously" lends Hillsfar more troops to supplement their own, for a slight increse in the tribute already being paid to the city. Most of these troops that are stationed here are given fine accomodations in the new Temple of Bane.
Girella has approached Mordak to gain more solid support from her guild, and in exchange, she will play up Mordak as a "loyal, good Hillsfaran" that is doing his best to stave off the influences of the Zhentarim among the members of the Mage's Guild that were actively seeking Maalthiir's removal. Mordak officially "joins" the guild as an associate guildmaster, endorsing the guild as a fine Hillsfaran institution.
Mordak continues to meet with the Knights of the North to gain information on the Zhentarim, though he is torn as to weather or not to simply placate the group and use them for information, or to try and better his position with the Zhentarim by selling out members of the group.
Tola Vrass is concerned with Mordak's endorsement of the Mage's Guild, but Mordak assures her that he values the Thayan Enclave and its trade, all the while feeding enough information to the Zhents to keep them suspicious of the Thayans in the city.
Finally, as Mordak begins to settle into his new position and enjoy the power that has evaded him for so long, Maalthiir contacts him from exile, and gives Mordak a few orders to show that he still has control over his former apprentice, and forces Mordak to send him information on where the exiled surviving Red Plumes left for, so that he might join up with them. He also promises to stay in touch with Mordak.
Finally, Mordak, as a sign of good faith to the cities and lands nearby, Mordak recinds the Great Law of Humanity, and relaxes some of the laws relating to the passes required for those that visit the city. He hopes that this will send a signal to the neighboring lands that he is not as bad as Maalthiir, nor is he completely under the thumb of the Zhentarim (though they have no problem with these changes themselves, and consider them no great concession).
Mordak himself truly does not know which way to turn. He has slightly more freedom than when he was completely at Maalthiir whim, but still fears that his former master will contact him again. He doesn't know if it would be better to slowly throw in completely with the Zhentarim, or if he really should try to be the hero, plot to free Hillsfar from all outside influence with members of the Mage's Guild and the Knights of the North, and take a gamble on truly ruling free of any subterfuge and political backstabbing.
Maalthiir, on the other hand, is in hiding with his friend Wak the Addled, and the surviving Red Plumes that he managed to find, and is surveying the balance of power in the region, and deciding if he should strike out for new lands to control, or if he should focus on creating problems for the Zhentarim and then return triumphant into Hillsfar, reminding all those within that he has freed Hillsfar from outsider influece TWICE for the good of Hillsfar.
On top of all of this, the Zhent troops treat the citizens very badly when they come into contact with them, the Arena is still open, and criminals still meet grisly ends there, most visitors, even with the relaxed rules, have City Guard or Zhentilar escorts, and those agents of the Rogue's Guild that were killed are now running loose on a crime spree.
The fun thing about the above is that its a situation that could be quickly shifted even if canon events in Hillsfar say something other than this. Its a precarious situation that can change quickly to more the city into whatever "canon" form might take shape. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 21:54:47
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Hello-
ARRRGHH!!!!!
KEJR - how could you? :(
I think this is the first time I am truly disappointed that I feel like I can't 'highlight the text' to see what is said therin, as I've not yet read the trilogy.
You come up with some amazing work - and I would Love to know what interesting and devious ideas lay within - but the spoiler daemon is keeping me at bay!
Truly - I would assume its as good as ever - so - keep up the good work! :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 21:59:34
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Thanks for the compliment . . . and just remember to come back to the thread once you have read the books,  |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2006 : 23:38:47
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The other day I checked out MotM at my local book store and I did not fall in love on the spot. It was a very brief glance anyway, so to make up my mind, after all the discussions here did not really help in removing my sceptisism for MotM, I made a decission today - I ordered my copy of the book. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 13 Jul 2006 23:40:11 |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 02:11:52
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That is very good, KEJR!!
Mkhaiwati |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 04:21:34
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KEJR-
Thanks for the Inviso-text plot ideas- I hadn't read the books either and don't intend to, but I appreciate your consideration. That said, I think Sean Reynolds did a kick-ass job with Hillsfar, which is why my party has moved on from Sons of Gruumsh/Melvaunt to Hillsfar. Overall, I find this format makes a fun book for me to grab ideas and plotlines from and then fit into my own campaign.
BUT (and you knew there was one coming)
there was one disappointing feature that I've had to work around: the jarring lack of continuity of important characters in Melvaunt between Sons of Gruumsh and Mysteries of Moonsea. I was really hoping that the Melvaunt section would further develop the brief but excellent background for Melvaunt and the major NPCs contained in Sons of Gruumsh. Other than Halmuth Bruil, Lord of Keys, none of the major Melvaunt NPCs in SoG are even mentioned in MoM. While there are some interesting Melvaunt plot hooks (I'm currently using the two hooks involving Dundeld and Killian Nanther), I found I had to work a whole new form of government and set of major NPCs into the already-established characters from SoG. (I really had a hard time with the Leiyraghon family...) That said, Melvaunt has become a base of operations of sorts that the party will return to periodically, regardless of their level. I had to had out a "Who's Who in Melvaunt" sheet to my players to keep track of all the changes and new faces... (end gripe)
So, since I haven't read Final Gate, I can recap what pieces of Hillsfar I've adapted from MotM without "spoiling" anything:
- I had a pumped-up marel patrol from Bell in the Depths attack their ship on the way to Hillsfar. I'm also combining the Bell in the Depths with the Web Enhancement Portals of the Moonsea(?) that fleshs out the Lich Akempus trapped below Northkeep.
- The party was sent by their buddy Oreal Nanther (the scion from SoG) to find his cousin Killian Nanther, due to the civil unrest caused by the death of uncle Dundeld. Some information placed Killian last seen near the Temple of Loviatar in Hillsfar (instead of Melvaunt). There are indications that the Lord of Keys was actually behind the disappearance, not the implicated-and-deposed Captain Stensdale (and who thus hates the current Lord of Keys). Was it kidnapping? The party must figure out which possible alliance or person had the best motive: the Temple of Loviatar, Maalthir and/or Tola Vrass, or Mordak and/or Girella Scatterstar. And I haven't even worked in the "Kreel" angle yet...
So, if the players get their proof of Killian Nanther's murderer or kidnapper, along with his body (dead or alive), it may also uncover alliances between Melvaunt and Hillsfar that can shift the power balance in both cities: what if one of these Hillsfar figures really did help the Lord of Keys kidnap or kill Killian? When the party comes back to Melvaunt, the fireworks will fly, just in time for another hook:
-What if Vhazror/Dregthaug and Daazlag survived from Sons of Gruumsh, and decided to raise an even bigger army of Thar to march on Melvaunt? What if they did so exactly when the city's militia is in chaos and without a Lord of Keys?
Just my own take on some plot lines, although after looking at your stuff, KEJR, I'm probably going to make a few changes... there's some cool ideas about how to handle the Zhents in there...
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 04:28:15
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I know what you are saying about Melvaunt, and at first I was concerned about this as well, and while there are some inconsistancies, in defense of Mysteries of the Moonsea, after reveiwing the 2nd edition products and the information in the FRCS, the stuff in Mysteries of the Moonsea is more consistant with previous Realmslore than Sons of Gruumsh was.
I have been thinking of some ways to detail Xul Jarek and the orc kings from Sons of Gruumsh into the whole Vorbyx/line of Tharkul's issue. Essentially, about 400 years ago an orc kingdom would have had to have split off of the Tharkul's kingdom, and managed to stay viable long enough to have had several kings, but yet be more or less wiped out by the time Thar's golden age was over 90 or so years ago (don't jump me, I'm going off my memory, not specific dates).
It can all be reconciled, it just takes some work. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 04:28:46
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My big problem is, even if the book is awful, I have to buy it, or I'll wake up one fine morning and discover that everything has turned into Eberron, with it's disgusting warforged and excessive political correctness. If I wanted a steampunk D+D setting, I'd play Space 1889.
I look at a lot of the things they do as marketing techniques, because they want to appeal to a wider range of clients. But...since I work in retail, and have clients of my own, I can say this with 100 percent certainty.
While drawing new people into the Realms is important, it is more than likely that the two primary means of doing so are A) The novels, and B) Finding a DM who runs the game and loves it.
It therefore follows that what occurs in the supplements, and what is written there, is not as important to attracting new clients as writing better novels and acquiring better dungeon masters.
The thing about experimental formats is that they are experimental, and this one was a mistake, because it was a 34.95 experiment instead of a 14.95 experiment. I LOVE a lot of statblocks when they occur in a published adventure because they are convenient and reusable, especially if they are generic, as with Sons of Gruumsh. But the point is, I open that adventure expecting to find a bunch of statblocks. When I open a sourcebook entitled Mysteries of the Moonsea, I'm not looking for statblocks, I'm looking for the sinister secrets of Fzoul's bedroom, what his hold over Manshoon REALLY is, if there is one, and day to day life in Zhentil Keep. I really don't know that much more about the Moonsea than I did before I opened the book, and I find myself going back to the old 2e supplement a hundred times a session every time I run my game in that area.
Plus, as I've said on other boards, I'm starting to think they're getting everything backwards. Lost Empires of Faerun should have been a big heap of encounters, dungeons, new magic items and spells. I don't need to know what happened at the height of Netheril, because likely, unless you spend a whole bunch of time working for the City of Shade (Bah, Humbug, another 3.5 ism that needs to be consumed in Mystra's fire), there's no reason any DM would even need this information, or players have it. We need to know what these dungeon settings are like today. Mysteries of the Moonsea should have been a regional sourcebook like the others. There's a million locations in the Moonsea I still know VERY little about, and the amount is pretty large. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 04:31:34
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See, to me, LEoF was one of my FAVORITE books. I would have HATED to have a history book be a bunch of encounters...
If I have one major gripe about it, it's that we didn't get ENOUGH detail. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 15 Jul 2006 04:33:38 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 04:57:04
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I have to disagree about the history comments. I'm sorry but I need that as DM because I don't always run games set in modern times and I, for one, want to know the history of the different nations/continents/world.
Even if I wasn't DMing a campaign that is set in the past, I'd still want to know these events and all about FR's history. There are even PC's that would know of this history, depending on the campaign or their history and who their families/mentors/etc are. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 15 Jul 2006 05:03:13 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 05:00:27
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| Agreed. There are a ton of things in Toril's ancient history that can spark some interesting campaign elements in the present time. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 05:49:45
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Even if I don't always agree with cannon history and will change details to something I find more fitting in my campaign I will still say that Lost Empires is extremely useful. Dungeons and maps have little use for me personally, but any detail that can ad colour will be welcomed and built upon in gameplay.
If I were to setup an ideal format for gaming products I would have to go with the old Known World gazetteers. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 15 Jul 2006 06:27:13 |
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Wil_Upchurch
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2006 : 09:46:15
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I finally got my book!
*blows dust off the thread*
Hello? :) |
Wil Upchurch
15th-Level Freelancer
magewebmaster@yahoo.com |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2006 : 08:50:07
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With all the commentary for and against, and otherwise, is anyone actually using the book? If yes, how?
Come out, come out, oh lurkers! Be not afraid of lore-hounds and weighty opinions! Your DM decisions will shield you well enough.
:::::::::
As for me: I’ve opted to dare the players (in-game, of course) to test their epic-levelness by seeing if they’d be so brazen as to waltz into Zhentil Keep itself and challenge Fzoul for the right to wield the Arcane Hourglass in his possession. This’ll let me make use of the tome straight away.
If, OTOH, the players opt for a more clandestine approach, I can still use the tome to describe to them just how crappy it is inside the bleak, prison-like walls of Zhentil Keep.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 06:14:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
With all the commentary for and against, and otherwise, is anyone actually using the book? If yes, how?
So, since it got buried in the "Do we like the book format" debate, I added a response to KEJR's interesting take on how to use the book. I've pasted my earlier post on how I'm adapting the book into my current campaign, compatibility issues with Sons of Gruumsh not withstanding:
SPOILERS?
quote:
So, since I haven't read Final Gate, I can recap what pieces of Hillsfar I've adapted from MotM without "spoiling" anything:
- I had a pumped-up marel patrol from Bell in the Depths attack their ship on the way to Hillsfar. I'm also combining the Bell in the Depths with the Web Enhancement Portals of the Moonsea(?) that fleshs out the Lich Akempus trapped below Northkeep.
- The party was sent by their buddy Oreal Nanther (the scion from SoG) to find his cousin Killian Nanther, due to the civil unrest caused by the death of uncle Dundeld. Some information placed Killian last seen near the Temple of Loviatar in Hillsfar (instead of Melvaunt). There are indications that the Lord of Keys was actually behind the disappearance, not the implicated-and-deposed Captain Stensdale (and who thus hates the current Lord of Keys). Was it kidnapping? The party must figure out which possible alliance or person had the best motive: the Temple of Loviatar, Maalthir and/or Tola Vrass, or Mordak and/or Girella Scatterstar. And I haven't even worked in the "Kreel" angle yet...
So, if the players get their proof of Killian Nanther's murderer or kidnapper, along with his body (dead or alive), it may also uncover alliances between Melvaunt and Hillsfar that can shift the power balance in both cities: what if one of these Hillsfar figures really did help the Lord of Keys kidnap or kill Killian? When the party comes back to Melvaunt, the fireworks will fly, just in time for another hook:
-What if Vhazror/Dregthaug and Daazlag survived from Sons of Gruumsh, and decided to raise an even bigger army of Thar to march on Melvaunt? What if they did so exactly when the city's militia is in chaos and without a Lord of Keys?
Just my own take on some plot lines, although after looking at your stuff, KEJR, I'm probably going to make a few changes... there's some cool ideas about how to handle the Zhents in there...
Three game sessions later, I think the biggest thing I'm adjusting to is the players' desire to have a "base of operations," and how that has become Melvaunt because of the Sons of Gruumsh. I find myself tying all of the mini-adventures not into the loose "Stop the Zhent Slave Trade" plot line, but into the "Help the Scions of Melvaunt" plot line. The climax of this campaign may not be an assault on Zhentil Keep or the Citadel of the Raven, but rather how to defend Melvaunt against a resurgent Kingdom of Thar, with only the help of a few uncorrupted noble scions.
Adapting the ideas, especially scaling up the adventures for my powerhouse party, has been more time-consuming than I planned. I'm really a 2-hour-prep time kind of DM, as I already work 60-hour weeks. I like MoM, but sometimes I think it would been easier to start with a full adventure, and then work in the juicy local history and politics afterwards. I'll let you know which is better after I've tried that method too...
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 10:55:18
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I just got the book today and I have mixed feelings about it.
Will it save me time? Yes, if I choose to use the adventures in it. But part of the joy of dming is creating some unique ones of my one. I guess the book was geared towards a different audience than myself. Though the adventures are still well written.
I suppose it will be useful if my PC's happen to avoid all my other plot hooks and I need an adventure fast.
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And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 18:45:45
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| The material about Vorbyx really did get me to thinking about Thar, and I have some ideas bouncing around my head about how tie Vorbyx, the Tharkuls, and the information in Sons of Grummsh together, but it'll have to wait until I get my computer woes under control. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 20:37:26
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Good stuff, everyone.
Me, I'm just really stoked about using the solid info in the book on the **mood** of Zhentil Keep and environs. I like each author managed to capture a unique, dismal feeling for each city. That's the kind of fluffy info I as DM can use to really impart to my players what Z-Keep and similar are like.
I hope the PCs manage to cut a deal with Khelben in time!
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 06:21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ahwe Yahzhe
I find myself tying all of the mini-adventures not into the loose "Stop the Zhent Slave Trade" plot line, but into the "Help the Scions of Melvaunt" plot line. The climax of this campaign may not be an assault on Zhentil Keep or the Citadel of the Raven, but rather how to defend Melvaunt against a resurgent Kingdom of Thar, with only the help of a few uncorrupted noble scions.
It’s good to see the min-adventures in MoM can be adapted like that.
I bet you could run some massive battles with this kind of campaign, were you so inclined. I wonder if the Zhents in your game would work for or against Thar?
And how are things going since you last posted?
quote:
Originally posted by Ahwe Yahzhe
Adapting the ideas, especially scaling up the adventures for my powerhouse party, has been more time-consuming than I planned. I'm really a 2-hour-prep time kind of DM, as I already work 60-hour weeks. I like MoM, but sometimes I think it would been easier to start with a full adventure...
I’m seeing this now too. I’ve had to spend some time upping the encounter levels from a few Zhentil Keep based adventures from MoM for my Epic Campaign.
Additionally, I just don’t think there’s enough information about the Temple of Bane presented in the book. It’s just....I dunno...underwhelming, I guess. I mean, it’s the Temple of Bane! On the other hand, I could see how rebuilding after the majority of the Keep’s destruction might cause even Fzoul to have to wait until grander abodes can be built.
Having stated out Clerics of Bane (esp. the 17th level NPC) is good, though. I like how later in the book the authors expanded on the stock clerics, which is to say we get more variety in NPCs, but also don’t have to read the same full stat-block again since the authors only had to include the stats that were different.
I found an easy fix for my Temple of Bane dilemma by opting to combine the Temple of Bane section with the Beholders’ Lair section. The Beholders’ Lair even includes a portal, which will be the exit end of the portal my PCs just discovered in Myth Drannor.
That way I get more use out of the book too.
Thanks to Lords of Madness, I’ve got an excellent set of upgrades I can use for the Lair to make the Beholders within it more formidable (like Kularkuthan the Elder Orb, Hive Mothers, magic items to augment eye rays, etc...)
I’m getting my money’s worth out of this tome.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2006 : 03:23:26
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| Just sticking in my 2 cents. To me, by making it part adventure, part sourcebook, they accomplished neither. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2006 : 11:17:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Darrin Drader
Just an update for interested parties, the web enhancement for Mysteries of the Moonsea has been completed and will be turned into WotC after the other freelancers on the book have had a chance to look at it. Regarding the suggestions I received earlier in this thread, I'd like to thank everyone who came up with stuff. Some suggestions were used, some were not.
...
Is there any chance you could share some of the stuff or ideas you did not include in your web enhancement?
I know that there are many Phlan/RoA/PoR freaks out there who would die for some new stuff of their favorite settings (including me).
Did you know that PoR gets 20 years old soon?
There should really be some re-issue of it.
For those who are also interessted in this setting:
I'm currently collecting all kind of stuff for a NWN2:PoR thingie.
If you would like to contribute something or if you a just a big fan of the setting please visit
http://www.artandtalk.com/nwn.htm (project page)
http://mydndboard.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=dvpor (boards) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 03:59:27
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I bought a copy just recently, have gone through it, and just wanted to add some praise/criticism of my own.
-My greatest disappointment was the way Manshoon was treated. I'm an old time FR fan, and always cherished him when he was one of the "OG" bad guys. All I noticed was the designers shuflling him off to his tower and adding (For more information, See his write-up in FRCS). So one of the iconic villains who helped so many adventurers get hooked in the first place gets refferred to a sourcebook that is nearly 5 years old and was one of the first books printed for 3.0?! That, i just don't get. He had a great storyline going, ala "Cloak and Dagger" with great oppurtunities...I think the ball was dropped big time on that. When you think of "Bad Guy" and "Moonsea", who first comes to mind?
-I really liked the format for the cities and present going ons. As a DM, those are essential products to me. Well done!
-I do not, nor have I ever liked throwing adventures and sourcebooks together. This one just went too far for my tastes. My only ffeedback to WotC on this is simple: Stop, please...you gotta keep em seperated.
-The lack of communication between Novel dept. Vs. Gaming Dept. is depressing and the ball was dropped on this too, but I hear it's being fixed! Cool! Something about the two being merged, correct? No more Novel Dept. Vs. Gaming Dept. annual softball games at the WotC summer picnic, eh? I would have bet on the Gaming guys anyway...authors are too scrawny..
-The writing was clear, concise, and flowed smoothly, on that I can't deny. They have some talent, thats for sure.
Over all, I'd give it 2 Fireballs out of 5. Not the best thats come out, but we can't recognize the good without a few stumbles.
Sean Reynolds and Co. have impressed me WAY more times than they've let me down, so no hard feelings at all, and I don't regret the money spent. |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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Blackwill
Seeker
55 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 22:18:07
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As a Moonsea fanatic I was really looking forward to this book. The lack of realmslore put me off. It forced me to look back to books like "The Moonea" and "Ruins of Zhentil Keep" for more detailed regional information.
I like the adventure in a book, but prefer premade adventures to be seperate of any realms accessories or supplemets. It just detracts from the realmslore and me looking forward to it.
No comments on the writing, that was all brilliant. As for adventure, it very good too. But with the small amount of Forgotten Realms lore books comming out, I excpected a little more. So far this is the worst designed book I've recieved so far, mainly due to my dissapointment in it as Accessory.
~Blackwill, zealot of the Prince of Lies. |
~Blackwill |
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Mysteries of Moonsea?!?
