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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2005 : 18:02:35
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very late to the discussion (found it while search : Bloodstone)
1) COLD LANDS -
Why? - a) you have two major trilogies finishing in 2006 that involve Damara and Vaasa (Rogue Dragon / Sellsword) b) no sourcebook since 1989 c) many political canon changes since last sourcebook d) if these forums are a microcosm of total FR fan interests, it would seem a highly popular area
2) OLD EMPIRES -
Why? - a) in a state of war but so little is known that FR fans need to know about this war b) also a very long time since last sourcebook was done c) WOTC must've been braindead when they decided to kill off the iconic Takhisis in dragonlance, so they can make up for this by pumping up her cousin/alter-ego Tiamat in the Realms and could do this in this sourcebook
3) MOONSEA - (done deal it seems)
Why? - a) two words "Zhentil Keep" b) also the cities of Mulmaster and Hillsfar have always been intriguing
4) CALIMPORT -
why? a) to keep with the major city theme started with their recent issue of the Waterdeep sourcebook b) if not this then entire Calimport/Amn/Tethyr region |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2005 : 23:28:54
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quote: Originally posted by coach
c) WOTC must've been braindead when they decided to kill off the iconic Takhisis in dragonlance, so they can make up for this by pumping up her cousin/alter-ego Tiamat in the Realms and could do this in this sourcebook
On this I wonder how much of Dragonlance belongs to WotC and how much of it belongs to Weis/Hickman? Since those two seem to be the leading force for that world.
Can't wait til we find out more information regarding Dragons of Faerun, which Rich alluded he would try to do after Thanksgiving over at the WotC boards. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2005 : 23:59:40
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It would be nice also if we could see more of a connection between Tiamat and the chromatic dragons of the Realms. Oh heck, all evil dragons of the Realms.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 00:18:48
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A Heartlands content book (It would be nice if they made seperate 160 page book for each nation but I don't think that's gonna happen (we can wish though)
I also like the idea of a PGtF style handbook but one that updates the current events a bit, with some more history in it of the ancient realms. This book would mostly be lore.
An updated Oriental Adventures for FR would also earn a buy from me. My players are constantly talking about their "Ninjas and Superspies" Samurai campaign they run with another DM. If we could get an FR version of the Oriental Adventures book I'd definitely run it.
There definitely needs to be the a Monster lore kinda book like people have mentioned before detailing orcs, goblins, ogres, etc. We hardly every hear about these races kingdoms and histories and I think it's long overdue we saw what was up with the goblinoid types of the realms.
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And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 06:25:54
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Moonsea is a done deal. That one is definitely being released.
The things I would really like to see other than this are:
#1) Amn, Tethyr, and the Sythilissan Empire. I want that Empire destroyed so badly that my teeth rattle every time I think about it.
And...I also want...NO novels on the Sythilissan Empire. That was put there so that PC's who wanted a classic campaign against the evil humanoid kingdom could do so. I've already shown Kuje my "War against the Sythilissan Empire" game outline, and he liked it, so you all should, too. :)
#2) A second deity book focussing on the divine PRC that EACH deity receives, reprinting all the old ones with 3.5 updates and publishing a new one for deities that don't have one. Half the old ones don't function because spell names changed and the text for the PRC prereqs didn't. Forest Master has become particularly unqualifiable for. Plus, this sourcebook can also print WHERE THE MAJOR CENTERS OF FAITH ARE. I do NOT want to have to refer to 2E material to figure out where the Citadel of Strategic Militancy is. The fact that I am lucky enough and old enough to have the reference documents in book form, and the money to be able to afford them when they came out is not fair to new players who might, at best, be able to scan a PDF. Nothing is worse for a starting DM than to have his players ask him "Mr DM, where are the major temples of my faith?" and having to say "!!@#$&*!, I don't know!"
#3) A sourcebook on the Western Heartlands. You may ask...why do I want a sourcebook on the Western Heartlands? Because Serpent Kingdoms screwed up the Western Heartlands so badly that it pretty much doesn't function until you have a Western Heartlands Sourcebook.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 15:08:14
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You know what also would be nice? An updated Gallery/NPC book with a nice portrait of all NPCs and a nice write up of their histories. I think if you could pull an NPC every 1 to 1 1/2 pages, you'd have a neat lore book that would add a very Realmsian flavor.
C-Fb
P.s. - No disrespect to Warlockco, who has done an awesome job writing up 3.5E NPCs. |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 17:49:32
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quote: Originally posted by msatran Forest Master has become particularly unqualifiable for.
Intuit Direction was folded into Survival, and Wilderness Lore became Survival. Hence, the skill prerequisites are replaced with Survival 13 ranks, Skill Focus(wilderness lore) becomes Skill Focus(Survival), and Control Plants became Command Plants. Bingo-that's it. Really hard, eh?
quote:
#3) A sourcebook on the Western Heartlands. You may ask...why do I want a sourcebook on the Western Heartlands? Because Serpent Kingdoms screwed up the Western Heartlands so badly that it pretty much doesn't function until you have a Western Heartlands Sourcebook.
How was it screwed up? SK just detailed unknown areas and areas that were passed over as "just another (snake|lizard)man encampment".
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2005 : 22:48:44
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What I want to see more of is artwork of women with big, heaving breasts in scantily clad armor facing off with short swords against dragons! Where's old Clyde Caldwell <g>?
Seriously though, I'd like to see an update to the old empires that includes Mulhorand, Unther, Semphar, Murghom, Chessenta, and the plains of purple dust as a collective group.
I'd also like to see something that updates Damara, Vaasa, and Impiltur, along with the various little city states nearby. This area should be somewhat of a cohesive unit. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 22:25:45
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Arivia (See, I got your name right this time!) brings up some interesting points, which I will now attempt to refute.
1) Folding requirements into each other to make an excessively powerful PRC easier to qualify for is not an appropriate solution to a problem. The class would need other feat or skill prerequisites to make it balanced given the nature of the abilities the class grants.
2) Because assuming you read Serpent Kingdoms correctly, Arivia, there is literally nothing to prevent the Kingdom of Najara from taking over Hills Edge and from there, the entire Western Heartlands. Just dump Yuan Ti potion into the local wine supply, and within days, everything human is either Yuan-Ti, or dead. Ebarnaje reaches out with his crown of infinite amounts of serpent control, and BANG. They are all his slaves. Anything that is not controlled is killed by Terpenzi, his CR 33 undead servant.
This thing can destroy whole cities. And with the possible exceptions of Baldur's Gate (Because anyone who would think about attacking Duke Eltan and the Flaming Fists is just asking for it) and Berdusk (Because anyone who would think about attacking Cylyria Dragonbreast and the Berdusk Harpers is also just asking for it), there really isn't a settlement out there that can withstand the ridiculousness of the military force of these creatures. Granted, they fear discovery, but the point is that after a few months of tactical reconnaissance (And let me tell you, this is an area that Yuan Ti and other serpentfolk should excel at), there's no reason to. The ability to respond to the threat is limited, because by the time powerful agents are aware of the threat, those agents are already facing the Yuan Ti horde. Who would the Harpers turn to for allies? The Zhents? The Red Wizards? Within a day of Hill's Edge is a settlement that's pretty much controlled by Yuan Ti. This falls into the heading of "It's only a matter of time." Once you get Hill's edge, you can Tainted One-ize the Zhent caravans. You can Tainted One-ize the Red Wizards. Only the few nonhuman adventurers and residents would not be building a new glorious edifice to Sseth. :) And assuming you are Ebarnaje and succeed, these beings can be enslaved. And, anyone who dies as a result of the Yuan Ti potion gets animated and serves as thralls to evil Sseth clerics. (Yuan Ti and Tainted Ones can be clerics, too. :))
I have to run two games that are essentially wars against the Serpentfolk for the specific purpose of explaining "Why haven't these guys taken over the world yet?" The campaigns are a lot of fun, but really, guys. I shouldn't have to do this to justify why my game world functions.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 22:40:06
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Or you could just assume that a Harper band stumbled upon the plot and did something to delay the Yuan-ti plots, if it bothers you that much. If you have your heart set on using the info as canon, and you are certain that you can't find any other way to explain, in your own campaign, that the yuan-ti haven't taken over, then all it takes is knowing that maybe the Harpers or the Moonstars started poking around, and caused the yuan-ti to scale (sorry) back their plans. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 23:37:39
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The problem with that, KE, is that many of those Harpers are PCs. Since they've been focussing on other threats, you have to assume that PC inaction leads to standard advancement of plot. Otherwise, you're rewarding characters for doing nothing.
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2005 : 23:38:06
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quote: Originally posted by msatran 1) Folding requirements into each other to make an excessively powerful PRC easier to qualify for is not an appropriate solution to a problem. The class would need other feat or skill prerequisites to make it balanced given the nature of the abilities the class grants.
Only bards and rogues had Intuit Direction and not Wilderness Lore in 3.0. The Intuit Direction had no real balance requirements, and certainly did not set the level of entry for the prestige class(that being one of the primary requirements of the skill ranks requirement for PrCs-see page 205 of the DMGII.) The folding in of the skill requirements does not mean you cannot qualify for the class earlier, it just means you have an extra 5 skill points along the way. If you're really that concerned about a player having 5 extra skill ranks to play around with, stab a requirement of 5 ranks in Profession(herbalist) on or something.
Regarding the balance of Forest Master: Consider a) that it is a transformational PrC, and 2) that the level of entry is 10th. It's not actually that overpowered if you consider that you only get the first benefits from it at 11th level-it's perfectly balanced for the high-level play it's intended for. If you want a comparison, look at a PrC you can enter at 5th or 7th level, Forest Master, and Stoneblessed(from Races of Stone).
quote: 2) Because assuming you read Serpent Kingdoms correctly, Arivia, there is literally nothing to prevent the Kingdom of Najara from taking over Hills Edge and from there, the entire Western Heartlands. Just dump Yuan Ti potion into the local wine supply, and within days, everything human is either Yuan-Ti, or dead. Ebarnaje reaches out with his crown of infinite amounts of serpent control, and BANG. They are all his slaves. Anything that is not controlled is killed by Terpenzi, his CR 33 undead servant.
This thing can destroy whole cities. And with the possible exceptions of Baldur's Gate (Because anyone who would think about attacking Duke Eltan and the Flaming Fists is just asking for it) and Berdusk (Because anyone who would think about attacking Cylyria Dragonbreast and the Berdusk Harpers is also just asking for it), there really isn't a settlement out there that can withstand the ridiculousness of the military force of these creatures. Granted, they fear discovery, but the point is that after a few months of tactical reconnaissance (And let me tell you, this is an area that Yuan Ti and other serpentfolk should excel at), there's no reason to. The ability to respond to the threat is limited, because by the time powerful agents are aware of the threat, those agents are already facing the Yuan Ti horde. Who would the Harpers turn to for allies? The Zhents? The Red Wizards? Within a day of Hill's Edge is a settlement that's pretty much controlled by Yuan Ti. This falls into the heading of "It's only a matter of time." Once you get Hill's edge, you can Tainted One-ize the Zhent caravans. You can Tainted One-ize the Red Wizards. Only the few nonhuman adventurers and residents would not be building a new glorious edifice to Sseth. :) And assuming you are Ebarnaje and succeed, these beings can be enslaved. And, anyone who dies as a result of the Yuan Ti potion gets animated and serves as thralls to evil Sseth clerics. (Yuan Ti and Tainted Ones can be clerics, too. :))
I have to run two games that are essentially wars against the Serpentfolk for the specific purpose of explaining "Why haven't these guys taken over the world yet?" The campaigns are a lot of fun, but really, guys. I shouldn't have to do this to justify why my game world functions.
Did you read the last half of page 112? They're afraid the Lords' Alliance will come down and smash them, and with good reason! They have a clandestine plan, and they're sticking to it, because they know that the entirety of the North will mobilize to take them down. Now, if you want to completely ignore the reasons why set in canon and claim the Western Heartlands is terribly screwed up, that's fine-but don't demand a sourcebook on something that's already been covered! |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 10:12:07
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Well, it seems like most of the schedule for next year is rapidly filling up. That said, here are the areas I would love to see updated.
1.) The Lands of Intrigue. It's been a while since we've seen anything out of that area.
2.) The "Hordes" of Faerûn. As mentioned earlier, info on Orcs, Goblinoids, Gnolls, etc.
3.) An update of the Old Empires.
4.) Another Gods of Faerûn book, this one with specialty priest options/core classes and further examination of the Tree.
5.) A Cold Lands sourcebook.
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"I've got a plan..."- Dan "Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 03:30:57
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Arivia, those fears are completely unjustified after the results of Khelben and his buddies vs. The City of Shade. Their defense against this action is the most powerful buffer zone in 3.5 Faerun. IF the Lord's Alliance WERE to react militarily to this action, they would leave themselves open for a retaliatory strike by the City of Shade. And that strike would cripple/destroy Waterdeep. Telemont Tanthul is so powerful that he can kill every citizen of Waterdeep from his BEDROOM. What's that CR? 38? The sheer amount of epic spellcasting this guy probably possesses is so grand that he can probably cast Transdimensional Mass Ruin every round with no penalties. And thats just their LEADER. There's no way on earth that Halaster is Tanthul's equal, assuming the spell annoyed Halaster enough to react. And, of course, if he doesn't make the fort save, he dies anyway.
You're not looking at the full military implications of the equation, Arivia. If it says "The Serpentfolk are afraid of this" then likely, they will send a few agents to analyze that situation and gather information. And when they do, assuming they have brains and are sneaky (This is what Yuan Ti do), they make a deal. "You are shades. Our potion doesn't work on you. We want this area. We'll have the Western Heartlands, you can have the North." Quite frankly, if this happens, Waterdeep is doomed. The only thing that might save them is if the Shar supremacists win. (If Shade didn't have two factions, they'd be unstoppable also)
If Khelben hadn't already screwed with the Shades, this would never work. But word will eventually get back to Ebarnaje that it did. Your assumption, Arivia, is based on the fact that all of these organizations are separate, and live in a vaccum. But they don't. And when characters screw up, NPC's are allowed to take advantage, too.
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 09:44:03
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The Shades have more than Waterdeep against them though. If there were to strike against Waterdeep, their other Enemies would strike against them. So Waterdeep and the Lord's Alliance still remains a valid threat to the Yuan-ti. Waterdeep might be one of the major players in the Lord's Alliance, but they are not the only player. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 15:46:43
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Hi all,
What bothers me right now is that the information for Clerics and Deities is quite spread out and partially outdated.
More than a third of F&P was wasted on stat blocks for the deities (something we really did not need) and the non-fluff stuff (as mstaran pointed out) reeks heavily of 3.0
Then you have the initiate Feats that are in at least four or five different books and the divine PrC in at least as many.
My point? Even if it's quite unlikely to happen, I would appreciate a book that consolidates and updates all this info in one place.
It would contain:
- Expanded discussion on the dogma of each god and faith - List and presentation of all the major temples (ideally at least on per major or intermediate deity) - A lot of info on monster deities - Initiate Feats for all FR deities - Updated 3.5 PrCs + new ones (a Helmite one at least)
If this gets published I would buy two.
Bocklin |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 05:31:43
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Well, Warlock, the problem with your theory is this.
In 2e, you're right. There is a serious risk. But in 3e, there's not, because anything 8 Crs or more above the highest level guy in the opposing force (Khelben) should be able to wipe out the entire enemy force outright.
The question that needs to be answered is not "Can Telamont Tanthul kill all these people from his bedroom?" Because the answer is "Yes, he can."
But rather "Why HASN'T Tanthul done this." The only theory that I have is that neither Ebarnaje nor Tanthul is entirely sure of the nature of the forces that their respective opponents bring to bear. On paper, most of the cities of the Western Heartlands, with the exceptions of the two mentioned previously, die to Terpenzi. Alone. Not with any support troops. Not with any bodyguards or spare Dark Nagas. Just Terpenzi. He's got TWICE the CR of the highest level beings in most of those cities. It would take him a long time to kill them all, but he COULD do it.
What it all boils down to is this question. "How powerful do I think I am, and what is the chance that something will go wrong?" The problem with this theory is that eventually, enough guys who are evil will die that one of them will see the light, and start attacking adventuring groups way lower level than himself. Don't kill their high level guys. Kill their grunts off so that there is no new generation of high level guys to replace them.
The problem is that we are entering the murky grey areas of personal DM interpretation, and the thing is, on paper, the Shades don't have reason to fear anything except a horde of Phaerimm, and quite frankly, if I were the Shades, I would have adopted a MUCH different strategy. I would hire good adventurers in secret to go whack the Phaerimm. Once there's no horde, then I can do whatever I like. Plus, if I want to fight the Phaerimm, I ally with the Sharn. If I want to ally with the Phaerimm, I fight the Sharn and kill them.
This stuff is all based on how you believe politics should function. Unfortunately, since I believe that the average real-world politician should not be endemic to a fantasy game, I try to sit there and say "What is a bunch of geniuses like the City of Shade going to do?"
And that's the problem. In an ordinary game, where your players don't all have 180 IQs and brilliant tactics, you don't have to worry about this stuff because ordinary things will kill the PC's. In a game where your PC's are all really smart, you're obliged to play the enemies according to their intelligence scores. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 15:16:17
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Yes, thank goodness we all DM for morons and not that geniuses that MS is constantly telling us about . . . |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 16:18:20
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Whew - thank gosh for that.
Seriously, though, this has gotten off topic. I may not be a moderator, but I do have enough sense to switch it back.
Anyway - another thing that I want is a collection of maps - from the books released so far, but in a pullout form - allowing us to lamenate and show our players. Would be nice, n'est pas?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 17:17:32
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I know its hopeless, but I am hoping that some of the hints in the first book of the Watercourse trilogy might lead us to beleiving that Kara-Tur might get some attention, and maybe even Zhakara, since both are mentioned (as far as Trading with, not indepth cultural examinations). Of course, if this is timed to go with the trilogy ending (as Dragons of Faerun seems to be with the Year of Rogue Dragons) then it wouldn't be next year when it showed up. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 05:29:22
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Uh, at no point did I downplay anyone else's gaming group. I only said my group was far above average for the norm. I'd like to point that out. |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 05:40:56
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Oh, and as a side note, I buy 2 copies of every supplement. My players borrow these books like crazy. I have a signout sheet. It's like running a library.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 07:32:40
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quote: Originally posted by msatran
Oh, and as a side note, I buy 2 copies of every supplement. My players borrow these books like crazy. I have a signout sheet. It's like running a library.
I used to do that during the days of 2e. I've got quite a few "second" copies of some of the more popular FR 2e accessories -- Faiths & Avatars and Cormanthyr being the most notable. I even got two or three additional copies of some of the Volo's Guides, although I can't recall which ones at the moment.
And, thanks to a screwy mailing system, I just recently gained an additional copy of the 3e Champions of Valor tome... Well, at least I did, before a certain lady friend claimed it for herself .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 Nov 2005 07:34:34 |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2005 : 03:36:53
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Well, I have FOUR of that one, and four waterdeep spares. I have an "Everybody gets one" policy once a year, and buy everyone in my game a supplement.
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 08:58:15
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I'd like to see - in one book or three - a good close look at the Dalelands, Sembia, and Cormyr now that the Elven Retreat has ended. Someone has to do something about those darned Cormanthor drow! |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 10:10:18
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quote: Originally posted by Vangelor
I'd like to see - in one book or three - a good close look at the Dalelands, Sembia, and Cormyr now that the Elven Retreat has ended. Someone has to do something about those darned Cormanthor drow!
Well, since it seems that 2006 will be the "Year of the Dragons" (read that somewhere semi-official, don't recall where. Maybe it was in the early 2006 WotC product brochure?) you could think that 2007 will be the "Year of the Elves".
This sounds kind of strange though: 2005 should have been the year of the dragons and centred around DR 1373. Anyway...
Based on that, my assumption would be:
2006: "Dragons of the Realms" (confirmed) "The Cold Lands" (not confirmed, but talks about it date back to nearly a year and this is where the trilogy is set) + 2 non-related ("Misteries of the Moonsea" + "Powers of Faerun"; both confirmed)
2007: "Elves of the Realms" "Cormanthor and the Dalelands" + 2 non-related ("Western Heartlands" + "??")
But this is just speculation/wishful thinking of course.
Actually, I hope that they don't wait until 2007 to put out the Elves books. Maybe they will try to have one come out in Nov/Dec 06 and the other one in Feb/Mar 07.
This would mean that they would catch up with the novels and could bring out the next source books closer to the actual publication (I hear that the follow up to the Erevis Cale trilogy should be "Realms Shaking" -> "Misteriey of Shadows/Shadows of the Realms" for late 2007?)
Bocklin |
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