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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 14:42:56
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That's true, the majority are the age (or even a little bit younger) that would be expected to be a lord of the city. But if Piergieron is supposed to be the face of Waterdeep, he should be able to go out and ride with his soldiers, especially since he's a paladin. The reason I wonder about Piergieron and Durnan (and even Mirt) is that they aren't magic-users and don't strike me as the types to use magic to extend their lives...
I may be totally wrong here (wouldn't be the first time), but wouldn't Piergeiron's blantant age vs. looks be a blaring example of why Khelben would be persecuted above?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 15:11:21
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Potions of Longivity..
I know they aren't part of D&D 3.x, but it's problably the AD&D answer of their extended life. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 15:17:19
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Well, I guess the question is not how they stayed around for so long, but why they decided to extend their own lives in such a public position... Durnan and Mirt, not as lords, but as famous adventurers/merchants. Just doesn't make sense to stay in one city and let the average people just pass you by.
Plus, are we sure that people would persecute someone for extending their lives... look at the matriarch of House Thann, she doesn't admit the half-elven blood, but readily tells people she is using magic to extend her life.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 17:16:01
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Plus, are we sure that people would persecute someone for extending their lives... look at the matriarch of House Thann, she doesn't admit the half-elven blood, but readily tells people she is using magic to extend her life.
C-Fb
It's not as much the element of extending their lives, it's how its done and for how long. Anyone who can lay hands on one can drink a potion of longevity. And it'll keep them around for a while, so long as it doesn't backfire (it had a chance of backfiring in 2E; I don't know if it can still do that in 3E).
But what we were talking about with Khelben, earlier, is a different matter. He's immortal. He doesn't have to buy potions that may backfire, and he's not got a finite time that's simply being pushed back -- he's here for the duration. And that's a lot different that holding off aging with a snooze button. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:08:28
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| One of the Seven Sisters, Dove I believe, also extended Mirt's life. It's a scene in Silverfall. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 20:20:38
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Ok, that is true - but what I am saying is that maybe the people of Waterdeep don't want an over-lived person running their town. And obviously potions of longevity aren't cheap, and since Paladins are supposed to tithe - what's he doing living that long? See, it just brings up the question of wealth-sharing and profiteering in Waterdeep.
The Lords of Waterdeep are a collection of well-to-dos that may not have the cities best interest in mind - they're paying too much attention to their own lives rather than the citizenry.
Now, I guess Mirt is chill, since Dove fawns over him for some reason. But Durnan? Wouldn't a warrior want to go out in his prime rather than fight the ravages of age with a potion?
C-Fb
P.s. - Wooly, I agree with the sentiment about Khelben and I do see the difference between him and the Lords.
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Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 21:24:55
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an brief interview with waterdhavian people about Piergeiron Paladinson:
- "What? the lord is a good one. A good one indeed. He makes sure that the taxes are right, the Guard are vigilant, and the laws are fair with all. With him in the command, our city will always continue to grow. What? Yes, he is more old than his face shows... maybe this came of the fact that he is a Paladin, the most valorous example of a mortal follower of a god. I donīt know.
Ourgen Hamstoryn, sailor, dock ward.
- "The best thing of you have a paladin as an Open Lord is that you always have the oportunity of show his best facade, and swear in the name of your dead father that you want to redeem of your wrongs. Wink. Itīs better with him. (wink)
Soullen Shortarms, halfling, Mask priest.
- "If I care for the fact that Piergeiron is more old than he appears? Why? I have more important busines to care. Talking about it, the most... ahem... exciting night of your life can be valued, to you, for only ten dragons?
lady Najlla el Razeed, calishite dancer and... lady of night.
- "Piergeiron? Yes, he is an old man. Yes. His faces and body are not of an old man. And yes, lad, the people love him, even if they donīt understand his longevity. Why? Well, lad, take a good look at this word: padalin! Piergeiron is a paladin. I think that you donīt have consider yet what this meaning. Because to be a paladin means to be a man of indisputable character; unmovable faith; valiant and always present justice, and kindness. He have followed the paladin code of conduct for more time that too many pretensious lords of all our Sword Coast. And he, as the Mount Waterdeep, endures. For more than 50 years, all in Waterdeep have lived with a leader like him. Some of the City Guards now were only children when he became the Open Lord. Some of our heroes now were children at this time. And the children love him. The youngs want to be like him when they grow. The girls want to find a man like Piergeiron. And the man, the good man, the laborers, merchants, courtiers, and sell-swords, all of them want to be, only for a day, a real man like he is. So, about your question: the people of Waterdeep donīt care to have a Lord that is more old than he shows? Yes, all of us care. But primary, we all care about the day in which we donīt have more Piergeiron between us. This will be a sad day, indeed.
Maskar Wands, patriarch of Wands family.
- "Piergeiron? I hate him! If only he have a flaw, just a little, well suited flaw, I, and all other young nobles, will be have a more "human" model to follow. But no, the fates send to us just a paladin! A man that donīt go to bed with fever; a mand that donīt tell lies; a man that is always kind, compassive, and joyful; a man shielded by one of our greatest god... oh, how I hate him. How I want to be like him...
Ollier Amcathra, abjurer and arcane devotee of Siamorphe
and the list goes on... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
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Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 15 Sep 2005 21:47:14 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 21:46:14
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Now... my personal thinkings about the topic :
Piergeiron is a paladin, and, if we go beyond that normal stat rules of the core books, if we seek more infos in tomes like the 2nd edition The Complete Paladinīs Handbook, we will find more than meet the eye in this class. To the waterdhavian people have Piergeiron for so many time is the same thing that the England/Avalonian people to have King Arthur taking care of them. Who will stay annoyed? The man is a paladin, so he is a knight in tought, word and deed, and he is a holy man of his faith, literally. And a paladin so old as Piergeiron (and Texter, by the way) is a rarity (the paladin way of conduct generally leave them to quick deaths).
And to the people that depend of him (as leader in peace and war times, judge, "father" in all means of the word), is a great boon that he is around for almost a century. Now... if the time goes on and he continues (2, 3 centuries), this, I think, will change the people mood (but maybe no, remember the paladin thing).
About Durnan and Mirt, I have little to said. Both are warriors, and both have defined to themselves well defined roles: Durnan is the protector of the open passage to Undermountain. Is better that he stay ever in his best form. Mirt have his duties, too. And both are not so viewed as the Open Lord, they are, someway, little known. But the ones that known, research, look for this, all the types of ideas pass in their minds: Mirt have great deals with the elves ("probably he is a half-elf, I think...), and so on...
I think that, to the general people, they are of no concern. Now, for the loreseekers that want to know the dark of the things... thatīs anoter matter...  
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Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 02:35:44
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Well, yeah... but those loreseekers are usually the ones responsible for bringing those on high down. Look how the political systems work in the Real World. All it takes is for one secret to get out and bam! there goes a career.
If it is found that Piergeiron isn't on the up and up with his peeps, it might matter, and then again it might not. I guess it's all up to opinion...
I just like rattlin' the cage every now and again!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 03:33:46
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Ok, that is true - but what I am saying is that maybe the people of Waterdeep don't want an over-lived person running their town.
Modest life extension -- which is possible by a variety of means -- is so common for the rich and powerful in Faerûn that we have to assume it isn't seen as particularly strange or bad, especially in a cosmopolitan city. |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 Sep 2005 03:34:43 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 03:46:27
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| Yeah, remember, these are people that get used to running into dwarves that might be 300 years old and elves that . . . well you know. I don't think they get too shocked by the people in power living longer than is usual, and as far as I know, the only place in the Realms that has term limits is the Silver Marches, lol. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 04:11:28
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What I am just saying ties into how people think though - Waterdeep is supposed to be cosmopolitan - isn't it just a bit possible that these people (who I don't care extend their lives) take it upon themselves to stay in their positions? Waterdeep might do well without Lords who entrench themselves and won't give up their position. New ideas are the way of life.
I know their are young lords and ladies on the council, but seriously, it is these older members that do hold the most sway, right? I am just asking that you might see it from my point of view. If you are trying so hard to say you are an open city, you don't want a legacy of stagnant rule.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 09:36:06
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quote:
Originally posted by webmanus
Questions About Waterdeep's Countryside
I bought City of Splendors: Waterdeep, and did immediately browse through the book, in search of information about Waterdeep's countryside. And, as expected, I did find nothing. Still, I would like to have answered the following questions, if possible:
- If the city has a population of 312,661 inhabitants within the city limits (I assume, inside the city wall), how many do live in the countryside? I Assume 10 times 312,661.
- How far from the city does the countryside stretch?
- How many are the farmsteads, thorps, hamlets, and so on in Waterdeep's countryside?
This bugged me a bit as well.
I was also a bit boggled that the river (which one would think important to trade) is apparantly not close enough to the city to show on the map.
I find myself also absurdly disappointed not to know where the city obtains its water supply.
I wasn't bothered, and am never bothered, not to have detailed merchants and whatnot such as Sgain seems to want. I am always ready to shoehorn my own places in. And CoS:W gave me plenty of room to shoe in three noble houses, a scandal and a mystery, plus some NPC's new to my players but culled from other campaigns. What the book did was give me a fabric into which they seamlessly fit.
I do often - frequently, even - wish I had come to the Realms sooner. But what I don't have in published information, I always feel free to make up, and what is published, I wantonly adapt, tweak and finagle to suit, in any case. All in all, I am not disappointed. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 19:17:52
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Hi,
I took a look at the Amcathra entry in the web enhancement Noble Houses of Waterdeep, and found that house Amcathra is listed as Tethyrian. I assume that the final decision is to go with a Tethyrian house, that is, lord Moungrym Amcathra of Shadowdale is to be considered as a Tethyrian human from 09/28/2005 and forward.
Comments?
/Manuel |
Link to my homepage: http://user.tninet.se/~bsu242v/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2005 : 20:41:04
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quote:
Originally posted by webmanus
Hi,
I took a look at the Amcathra entry in the web enhancement Noble Houses of Waterdeep, and found that house Amcathra is listed as Tethyrian. I assume that the final decision is to go with a Tethyrian house, that is, lord Moungrym Amcathra of Shadowdale is to be considered as a Tethyrian human from 09/28/2005 and forward.
Comments?
/Manuel
He was listed as Tethyrian in the sourcebook, too. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 21:58:26
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I'm just glad Trobriand got a 3.5 write-up, because I was almost certain that Halaster's 'apprentices' wouldn't get any sort of mention. In a way I imagined him to be more powerful, but it makes him a more usable NPC because he's under CR20.
Out of interest, what is Halaster's current alignment after the Elminster in Hell incident? |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 05:48:26
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My guess (just a guess!) it's still Chaotic Evil. 
My reasoning? You can be evil and still do good things now and then--or, perhaps he is on the path to redemption but isn't quite there yet. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 17:12:21
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Chaotic Evil or just "Halaster," if you know what I mean.
He always was and always will be one of those very unique elements in the Realms-world. I think, after doing everything that he has done (some for reasons, some obviously not), he doesn't really fit in any alignment, or switches so quickly it's not trackable per supplement.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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piterHoeg
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2006 : 17:54:07
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to the Candlekeep forums, but not new to the Forgotten Realms. I've been using the City of Splendors: Waterdeep for my current campaign as it's based in Waterdeep. I too (like so many others, apparently) am using the Shadow Thieves storyline as my main storyline, and for the first time just sat down to have a look at Marune the Masked. In the book it says he's a 14th level Shadow Adept, which is obviously impossible since the PrC only goes up to 10th level. Since that's obviously a typo, I'm wondering what his levels should really be? Is he still a 24th level NPC or just 20th? Any opinions on the matter? Anyone seen anything "official" about it?
Thanks!
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2006 : 17:59:54
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quote:
Originally posted by piterHoeg
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the Candlekeep forums, but not new to the Forgotten Realms. I've been using the City of Splendors: Waterdeep for my current campaign as it's based in Waterdeep. I too (like so many others, apparently) am using the Shadow Thieves storyline as my main storyline, and for the first time just sat down to have a look at Marune the Masked. In the book it says he's a 14th level Shadow Adept, which is obviously impossible since the PrC only goes up to 10th level. Since that's obviously a typo, I'm wondering what his levels should really be? Is he still a 24th level NPC or just 20th? Any opinions on the matter? Anyone seen anything "official" about it?
Thanks!
This is not an error; it is possible to take more than 10 levels in a 10-level prestige class once you've reached epic levels(21+). See page 132 of the PGtF for details on levels 11+ of the shadow adept PrC, while the ELH(3.0) or the DMG(3.5) include details on levels 21 and above. |
Edited by - Arivia on 26 Mar 2006 18:00:35 |
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piterHoeg
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2006 : 18:05:40
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quote:
This is not an error; it is possible to take more than 10 levels in a 10-level prestige class once you've reached epic levels(21+). See page 132 of the PGtF for details on levels 11+ of the shadow adept PrC, while the ELH(3.0) or the DMG(3.5) include details on levels 21 and above.
duly noted w/thanks, Arivia. those at Candlekeep are truly as wise as their reputation implies. i am obviously just a lowly apprentice scribe.  |
Edited by - piterHoeg on 26 Mar 2006 18:10:37 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 11:32:31
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Well March has come and March has gone and we still havent got the CoS WE....
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I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 12:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well March has come and March has gone and we still havent got the CoS WE....
There's still 17.5 hours left, at least here in Florida! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2006 : 12:38:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well March has come and March has gone and we still havent got the CoS WE....
There's still 17.5 hours left, at least here in Florida!
Aye... I was just going to mentioned something similar.
There might only be a couple of hours left for the 31st of March for us Dargoth... but there's still plenty of the day left for those in the US.
Who knows... WotC might post the WE when we're all in bed! 
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 06:32:02
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| Doubtful, seeing as they went to the wall with the April Fools jokes. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 18:35:37
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| That's disappointing... I like the April Fool's stuff some websites do (I'm still disappointed that CBT's Project Omega and the Orca was a hoax), but I am also really wanting this web enhancement! |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Apr 2006 18:38:38 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 18:41:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's disappointing... I like the April Fool's stuff some websites do (I'm still disappointed that CBT's Project Omega and the Orca was a hoax), but I am also really wanting this web enhancement!
Did you post comments on PoF a few seconds ago, or do I need to go check I detoxed from my last acid trip again? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 19:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's disappointing... I like the April Fool's stuff some websites do (I'm still disappointed that CBT's Project Omega and the Orca was a hoax), but I am also really wanting this web enhancement!
Did you post comments on PoF a few seconds ago, or do I need to go check I detoxed from my last acid trip again?
Uh, yeah, it was the acid trip!
Yeah, I mistook this thread for another, realized what I'd done, and corrected it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 20:00:04
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So, I saw a nigh-final draft (typeset) earlier this week. We found a few typos, so it had to go back to the typsetter one more time.
Hopeing to forestall all the "Faeruun" jokes ...
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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City of Splendors: Waterdeep sourcebook
