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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Sep 2005 : 19:56:49
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Fellow Scribes !!
My copy of CoS hasn't arrived yet (...Amazon...), and I am very curious about what new Feats await inside. If someone would be so kind to post their names I'd be more than happy !! 
Cheers !! |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
Edited by - Torkwaret on 01 Sep 2005 19:59:45 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 01:07:11
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Have the book, and love it, but I have a question!
COS says that Bronwyn Caradoon is Tethyrian Rogue/Harper Agent (don't remember the exact levels, sorry). But according to the latest issue of Dragon, she is a Chondathan Bard/Harper Agent. Which one is correct? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 01:21:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Have the book, and love it, but I have a question!
COS says that Bronwyn Caradoon is Tethyrian Rogue/Harper Agent (don't remember the exact levels, sorry). But according to the latest issue of Dragon, she is a Chondathan Bard/Harper Agent. Which one is correct?
Well since I consider that char, Elaine's.... I'd go with Dragon. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 01:59:23
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| I'd go with bard, too. In her profession, she's got to know a little bit about everything... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 02:42:27
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I'd have to agree with Wooly and Kuje as well.
Given what we've learned about Bronwyn in the past, and her development as a character, I'd suggest that a few levels in bard would be more reflective of her overall abilities than just being a rogue.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 02:51:27
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| Furthermore, since I just checked, she was a bard in 2e. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 02:58:53
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Yeah... that's why I said "development as a character" -- I'd just taken a look over your FR NPC listing to see what Bronwyn was initially stat'd as. Having her using the 3e bard class matches more with past interpretations.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Sep 2005 03:00:23 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 03:02:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yeah... that's why I said "development as a character" -- I'd just taken a look over your FR NPC listing to see what Bronwyn was initially stat'd as. Having her using the 3e bard class matches more with past interpretations.
Ah,
Wasn't sure if anyone looked so I did. :) So I'll go with what I said above and say the bard makes more sense still. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 21:49:33
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Thanks for the replies. 
Yes, she was a bard (loremaster) in 2E, and she is definately Elaine's character, but from what I remember of the novels, Browyn wasn't written as a traditional bard. Stills, bards get bardic knowledge, and that suits her well (plus, I love bards). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 23:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Thanks for the replies.
Yes, she was a bard (loremaster) in 2E, and she is definately Elaine's character, but from what I remember of the novels, Browyn wasn't written as a traditional bard. Stills, bards get bardic knowledge, and that suits her well (plus, I love bards).
'Tis true. But then again, in 2E, the classes were sometimes a bit limiting for particular character concepts. By 2E standards, Bronwyn did little that was "bardish" -- but that was the closest class that fit.
I believe Artus Cimber was also a bard, in 2E. And yet, he did nothing that was bard-like... It's just a reflection of the way 2E was structured. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 01:15:00
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About Skullport via South sea caves..
In the new CoS it is said : "...the City Guard now watches these sea caves, allowing the Lords to use them for secretive operations."
With this, and the proximity of the harbor, I have difficulties to imagine many smugglers' ships getting from the harbor to skullport... except if the navy has the order to let them do it..
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 01:26:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
About Skullport via South sea caves..
In the new CoS it is said : "...the City Guard now watches these sea caves, allowing the Lords to use them for secretive operations."
With this, and the proximity of the harbor, I have difficulties to imagine many smugglers' ships getting from the harbor to skullport... except if the navy has the order to let them do it..
I take it as the City Guard watches, to make sure no invasion force is being smuggled in. But as to the illegal activities taking place, they "turn a blind eye" to events transpiring.
For every City needs its "bad place" and what better place than Skullport to serve that purpose for Waterdeep. |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 01:19:04
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I was pleasantly surprised by this book, most of it was interesting and there was little of the "filler" material that has plagued most sourcebooks recently. After a few bad experiences, I always read sourcebooks in the store before deciding to buy them, and I'm glad to say this one is worth the money.
Eric, are there any plans for supplemental material to flesh things out? I would love to have more information about the noble families and guilds,particularly regarding what type of concrete power they have over the Lords in certain areas (the fact that the Lords are essentially institutionalized oligarchs unreastrained by lawful brakes on their power makes this a very important issue regarding "political" campaigns). |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 02:10:27
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
I was pleasantly surprised by this book, most of it was interesting and there was little of the "filler" material that has plagued most sourcebooks recently. After a few bad experiences, I always read sourcebooks in the store before deciding to buy them, and I'm glad to say this one is worth the money.
Eric, are there any plans for supplemental material to flesh things out? I would love to have more information about the noble families and guilds,particularly regarding what type of concrete power they have over the Lords in certain areas (the fact that the Lords are essentially institutionalized oligarchs unreastrained by lawful brakes on their power makes this a very important issue regarding "political" campaigns).
There will be a Web Enhancement, just be a month or two before it comes out I think. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 15:52:41
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There will be a web enhancement, but I'm not sure when it is coming out. (Presumably soon.)
It will focus on the Environs of Waterdeep, i.e. the region of the Sword Coast labeled as the "Waterdeep region". There may (assuming it survived the editorial cut) be a little bit of info on the nobility in the form of a table.
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
I was pleasantly surprised by this book, most of it was interesting and there was little of the "filler" material that has plagued most sourcebooks recently. After a few bad experiences, I always read sourcebooks in the store before deciding to buy them, and I'm glad to say this one is worth the money.
Eric, are there any plans for supplemental material to flesh things out? I would love to have more information about the noble families and guilds,particularly regarding what type of concrete power they have over the Lords in certain areas (the fact that the Lords are essentially institutionalized oligarchs unreastrained by lawful brakes on their power makes this a very important issue regarding "political" campaigns).
There will be a Web Enhancement, just be a month or two before it comes out I think.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 03:31:12
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I have a question - if Khelben BS Arunsun has assumed the identity of Khelben RC Arunsun, which do the lords of Waterdeep know him by? Also, why did he go to the bother of assuming his relative's identity? If you already have the Seven and El running around living forever - along with Manshoon and Halaster, why would you bother hiding the fact that you are long-lived? Or is there a reason that I am just unaware of after reading this book?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 04:11:10
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Elminster has been around for a long time, centuries, but I don't think that most people in the Realms know that he was born in the 200s DR. The fall of Myth Drannor would have destroyed most records of his existence there and his contemporaries are pretty much dead so Elminster is probably considered to be a few centuries old - like "most powerful wizards".
It's the same thing with Khelben save for the fact that Waterdeep DID (and still does) have records of the original Khelben the Elder. Suspecting that someone is one or two centuries old is different from knowing it. Plus Khelben has lived many lives since leaving Myth Drannor and assuming new identities for him is like buying a new set of clothes - it's second nature.
The Seven have a far lower profile than Khelben and Elminster (and are much younger to boot). As with the elder Chosen, the Seven have lived their lives in various guises, have travelled the planes for long periods (and hence fallen out of the public eye) and really only settled down in the last century or so. Oh, and you never ask a lady how old she is ...
Ed will give you the reasons why "living a long time" isn't viewed with much appreciation by common folk. Basically it revolves around the fact that such a state of affairs is quite simply "unnatural" and provokes fear and hostility in the ignorant or superstitious: "That Elminster must have sold his soul to Asmodeus himself to have found the secret of long years ..."; "They say that Khelben Arunsun is truly a lich in spell-spun disguise. How else could he have lived so long!?"; "Storm Silverhand uses evil rituals to keep herself youthful! She preys on young, innocent lasses throughout the Dalelands, stealing their vitality to keep herself young!" etc.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 04:32:20
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Good point - I could see how something harmless as longevity could quickly turn the masses against someone - especially since the folk of the Realms are still quite keen on superstition (and why wouldn't they be - crazy deities are always doing something weird). I just thought it was a bit odd for him to choose to usurp his relative's identity - must have really wanted to settle in Waterdeep then. Thanks for the viewpoint!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 10:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Good point - I could see how something harmless as longevity could quickly turn the masses against someone - especially since the folk of the Realms are still quite keen on superstition (and why wouldn't they be - crazy deities are always doing something weird). I just thought it was a bit odd for him to choose to usurp his relative's identity - must have really wanted to settle in Waterdeep then. Thanks for the viewpoint!
C-Fb
Are the people of the realms so stupid that they don`t understand that if one has a part of a deity`s ESSENCE within oneself, aging is slowed? This sounds obvious. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 10:24:36
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I'm not sure that people understand the exact mechanics of being a Chosen of Mystra. Sure, they acknowledge that the Chosen are "favoured of the goddess" but beyond that, they wouldn't know that this means X, Y & Z in terms of ability scores, aging, spells etc.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 10:43:36
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Good point - I could see how something harmless as longevity could quickly turn the masses against someone - especially since the folk of the Realms are still quite keen on superstition (and why wouldn't they be - crazy deities are always doing something weird). I just thought it was a bit odd for him to choose to usurp his relative's identity - must have really wanted to settle in Waterdeep then. Thanks for the viewpoint!
C-Fb
Are the people of the realms so stupid that they don`t understand that if one has a part of a deity`s ESSENCE within oneself, aging is slowed? This sounds obvious.
Even more reason to hate and not trust such people.
Even as a follower of said diety.
Afterall the green-eyed monster (jealousy) is quite powerful.
Just look at some of the doubts that people are having about Roberts being selected as Head Justice or even just as a Justice of the Supreme Court here stateside. He's Catholic, and people are questioning him on will the dictates of the Pope override his loyalty to the Constitution and the Laws of the United States. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 11:33:17
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| Another thing: look at how much people in the real-world try to defy age. In a land where magic exists, there are going to be those who try any angle they can to keep breathing. This is another reason for the Chosen to not go around advertising that they've been around for centuries. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 12:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Another thing: look at how much people in the real-world try to defy age. In a land where magic exists, there are going to be those who try any angle they can to keep breathing. This is another reason for the Chosen to not go around advertising that they've been around for centuries.
Yep, the Court Mage of Daggerford (at 80+ years old) is trying to find ways to extend his lifespan, and is considering lichdom as a last resort. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 13:32:22
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Good point - I could see how something harmless as longevity could quickly turn the masses against someone - especially since the folk of the Realms are still quite keen on superstition (and why wouldn't they be - crazy deities are always doing something weird). I just thought it was a bit odd for him to choose to usurp his relative's identity - must have really wanted to settle in Waterdeep then. Thanks for the viewpoint!
C-Fb
Are the people of the realms so stupid that they don`t understand that if one has a part of a deity`s ESSENCE within oneself, aging is slowed? This sounds obvious.
It's less stupidity than the disconnect between what is common knowledge to gamers/us and what is common knowledge to the Realms native.
WE know he's 960 years old this Higharvestide. They know what he tells them, and he claims to be 50-odd winters and the son of Lhestyn.
WE know he's carrying Mystra's power and is effectively immortal. They only see him as a powerful archmage with powers and spells that trump many others. While many know he's got a special relationship with Mystra, knowing that he's a power-bearer for her is another matter.
And remember, part of the reason Khelben's cagey and circumspect about all this are the frailties that rear up around folk: Jealousy, Greed, and the like...
Steven
Who thinks it'd be interesting to portray magic-using types as reacting to the presence of the Chosen like greedy folk react to the One Ring in LOTR...(sense presence, start rationalizing how THEY are better suited to wield such power, little realizing the power would wield them...) |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 14:26:24
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Yep one of the problems with the Chosen and other like them. Too many players metagame the knowledge of them, even though the vast majority of the people of Faerun don't think anything special of them other than that they are either known Harpers or powerful Mages.
Might not be a bad ideal to take this of to a new thread, if we are going to continue discussing these items instead of the book itself. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 14:41:15
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Ok, then I'll pose another question about the book... isn't Piergeiron a bit old now? He started his reign in 1314DR, that makes his reign as the open lord at 58 years, and I am thinking that he was no spring chicken when he started. So let's say he was 25. That would make him 83 years old now... not the man they portray in the book at all. And if he's extended his life as well - the good people of Waterdeep might start becoming suspect of all the powers in their city.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 17:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Ok, then I'll pose another question about the book... isn't Piergeiron a bit old now? He started his reign in 1314DR, that makes his reign as the open lord at 58 years, and I am thinking that he was no spring chicken when he started. So let's say he was 25. That would make him 83 years old now... not the man they portray in the book at all. And if he's extended his life as well - the good people of Waterdeep might start becoming suspect of all the powers in their city.
C-Fb
He's not the only Lord who's older than he looks. Look at how long Durnan and Mirt have been in the city... To quote Ed (March 19th of last year, in his thread):
quote:
Wooly Rupert, I think Mirt and Durnan are both a trifle OLDER than 120. Still unpublished is the "essential Realmslore" short story in which they acquired as treasure certain drinkables that might be expressed in AD&D terms (the D&D game came along after I wrote the story) as slightly-variant Potions of Longevity. So, yes, they appear to be rather leathery/fat/worn-but-vigorous 50-ish males. The way the published Realms has turned out, the careers of Mirt and Durnan have been sadly neglected, but you will see their present-day selves adventuring together in my tale in the forthcoming Realms of Dragons anthology (end of 2004, I believe).
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2005 : 20:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Are the people of the realms so stupid that they don`t understand that if one has a part of a deity`s ESSENCE within oneself, aging is slowed? This sounds obvious.
Discussions of divine "essence" can twist the strongest minds (witness 1500 years of Christian controversy over whether "God the Son" and "God the Father" are of the same "substance" or of similar "substance"), so I don't think that it is fair to call the people of Faerun "stupid" for failing to understand the how and why of a deity sharing divine "essence" with a mortal. There is nothing within the scope of experience of a farmer in the Heartlands or a sailor out of Waterdeep to compare this sharing of "essence," so why should they be expected to understand the longevity of powerful (and thus already feared) magic users? The sharing of memories by aboleths and their food and illithids and their ancestors is totally beyond human experience, and with precious few exceptions, likewise the merger of divine and human "essence." The simple folk of Toril don't have a narrator with third person omniscience explaining the Chosen of gods to them, and I suspect that most theologians (and thealogians) don't understand it, either. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 02:41:54
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Well... why exactly are the Lords of Waterdeep so old then? They really should be dead, unless they, too, are using magics to keep them alive a lot longer than they should be. So, is this just a way to show your power in Waterdeep or what?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 04:01:11
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Well... why exactly are the Lords of Waterdeep so old then? They really should be dead, unless they, too, are using magics to keep them alive a lot longer than they should be. So, is this just a way to show your power in Waterdeep or what?
C-Fb
Well, only three of the ones we know about are that old. We honestly don't know the ages of a lot of them... Ed named Asper as a Lord, and we know she's younger -- I doubt she's seen 35 summers. Kyriani can't be more than about 40 or so... Danilo wasn't terribly old when he was a Lord. Caladorn is about the same age as Danilo... |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Sep 2005 04:02:18 |
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City of Splendors: Waterdeep sourcebook
