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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 18:42:30
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What do others think of the Historical Eras timeline included in this tome on page 186?
As someone who loves history and timelines, I was quite pleased to find this included within SK. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 19:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
What do others think of the Historical Eras timeline included in this tome on page 186?
As someone who loves history and timelines, I was quite pleased to find this included within SK.
Thought it was groovy. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 22:21:49
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Well im very impressed by this sourcebook  
The content took me by surprise.... it seems crammed with fluff and only short crunchy chapters in the latter part of the book, nowhere near as crunchy as previous products.
The interior art is pretty good too, im not too taken by the cover art...whilst it is well done, its a bit too cartoon-style for my liking, id prefer it to be darker and grittier, especially considering the topic of the book.
The geography section is very good and what I spent most time on (as I do with most FR products), and ill certainly spend much more time in this section. However, I was VERY disappointed in the lack of a map. I could roughly picture where the locations were but it would have been nice to see it within the product rather than in my minds eye.... or having to fetch down the FRCS.
Overall, im impressed. 8/10 |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 03:20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Well im very impressed by this sourcebook
I'm about a little over a third of the way through, but so far I am also very impressed. And the main reason is....
quote:
The content took me by surprise.... it seems crammed with fluff and only short crunchy chapters in the latter part of the book, nowhere near as crunchy as previous products.
Exactly...there is something wrong here. How did this slip by the editors? Seriously, I pray to Eilistraee that this trend continues with the Shining South later this year.
quote:
The interior art is pretty good too, im not too taken by the cover art...whilst it is well done, its a bit too cartoon-style for my liking, id prefer it to be darker and grittier, especially considering the topic of the book.
The art to me, looking at more of it in depth, isn't overly impressive or overly unimpressive, it's just there. I don't mind that and it's much better than some previous FR tomes.
quote:
However, I was VERY disappointed in the lack of a map. I could roughly picture where the locations were but it would have been nice to see it within the product rather than in my minds eye.... or having to fetch down the FRCS.
Let me tell you another thing that is driving me nuts. I would really have liked an index. I know more and more gaming products just don't have this tool. Yet, I feel that is a shame and really wish companies would include them more often in their products. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 08:45:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Exactly...there is something wrong here. How did this slip by the editors? Seriously, I pray to Eilistraee that this trend continues with the Shining South later this year.
Well, I'm pretty sure it had a heck of a lot to do with the authors. No one writes "Realms" like Ed, Eric and the greatly missed Steven. I also think that Eric is really hitting his straps as an FR freelancer and I hope that he gets lots more work. His love and knowledge of the setting shine through in every sentence.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 12:39:50
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In reference to the posts by Lord Rad, Sirius, and George:
I want this book! |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 18:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Exactly...there is something wrong here. How did this slip by the editors? Seriously, I pray to Eilistraee that this trend continues with the Shining South later this year.
Well, I'm pretty sure it had a heck of a lot to do with the authors. No one writes "Realms" like Ed, Eric and the greatly missed Steven. I also think that Eric is really hitting his straps as an FR freelancer and I hope that he gets lots more work. His love and knowledge of the setting shine through in every sentence.
-- George Krashos
I can agree with that. The three you name are some of the best sources for Realmslore, and it'd be great to see lots more stuff from them.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
In reference to the posts by Lord Rad, Sirius, and George:
I want this book!
So do I! I just won an auction for it on eBay last night, so hopefully I'll have the book within the next couple weeks.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Arnwyn
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 22:43:23
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| This book is worth the price of admission just for the info on Lapaliiya, Samarach, The Tashalar, and Thindol. (Finally!) |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 23:09:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnwyn
This book is worth the price of admission just for the info on Lapaliiya, Samarach, The Tashalar, and Thindol. (Finally!)
Price of admission? Can you only get books through readings at movie theaters where you are? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 23:37:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So do I! I just won an auction for it on eBay last night, so hopefully I'll have the book within the next couple weeks.
Congrats. Please share your thoughts once you have the tome. I'm about to dive into the Realms geography section. It's a delight to see how much lore is within this tome. |
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Arnwyn
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2004 : 21:06:14
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quote:
Price of admission? Can you only get books through readings at movie theaters where you are?
Uhh... it's just a figure of speech (used often in Canada, btw). Unless you're just joking and I missed it...! |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 15:24:34
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I just bought and read the first two chapters...
I must admit that you were right, ... great great book. The serpent kingdoms is not the topic i prefer, but i must admit that this book is really really nice. Apart from the pictures, they are'nt ugly, they are just ... common, it's a great book to own! |
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 16:10:29
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I must admit after glancing through this thread i'm impressed and once again tempted to buy SK despite having little real interest in the Yuan-ti... And it does sound like my confidence can be restored in WOTC after the rubbish they printed as the PGTF!!!
EDIT: Ok, the PGTF wasn't that bad, but it was riddled with errors and was far too "crunchy" (if i can get away with that term) and it certainly didn't do the stellar job i was hoping for in updating us to 3.5 |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
Edited by - Gerath Hoan on 21 Jul 2004 16:12:35 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 16:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
I must admit after glancing through this thread i'm impressed and once again tempted to buy SK despite having little real interest in the Yuan-ti... And it does sound like my confidence can be restored in WOTC after the rubbish they printed as the PGTF!!!
A variety of scaly races are given an examination although the Yuan-Ti to me are the featured cast members. The best way to describe this book is by some comment some wise scribe (perhaps one of the writers) made a few months ago when discussing this tome. "They (scaly ones) have been up to more than Faerun citizens realize." That comment is ringing very true as I near the end of reading the tome.
quote:
EDIT: Ok, the PGTF wasn't that bad, but it was riddled with errors and was far too "crunchy" (if i can get away with that term) and it certainly didn't do the stellar job i was hoping for in updating us to 3.5
I know I've said this before, but I want to repeat it so it sounds like a chant. This tome contains a shift in focus for an FR book. Crunch, to me, took a clear backseat or at least shifted to allow lore right next to it in the first class section. I pray to every FR deity that this trend continues in the future. |
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 18:10:54
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Sounds fantastic then... i'll be praying right with you! Thanks for the info, SB! 
Now, how to find the cash to pay for my copy...   |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 07:24:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
Sounds fantastic then... i'll be praying right with you! Thanks for the info, SB!
Now, how to find the cash to pay for my copy...
You're welcome.
Lack of cash is something more than one scribe is suffering from.
I hope you enjoy it whenever it does land in your hands.
SB. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 08:54:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerath Hoan
EDIT: Ok, the PGTF wasn't that bad, but it was riddled with errors and was far too "crunchy" (if i can get away with that term) and it certainly didn't do the stellar job i was hoping for in updating us to 3.5
IMO, it was that bad! What about daylight adapatation as a 1st level feat?  Poor Drizzt. I think it's a pity to release a FR book that looks like on of the complete... series, just a 3.5 conversion from the previous book with only a few pages of history. No help for the backgrounds, ideas of specific gear, ...
And i bought this book 
<looks around and notice Alaundo frowning>  ... Serpent Kingdoms / Players' Guide to Faerun... yes a bit different  |
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Alexander Heppe
Seeker
Germany
62 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 08:09:56
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I just received my copy a couple of days back, and only had the time to glimpse into it every now and then. What impresses me is the amount of detail and history that has been woven into this sourcebook. I also love the fact that "crunchy" rules info seemed to be less important for the designers this time.
But is it just my copy, or is this book really lacking any decent maps? I know that the larger scale maps are to be be found in the FRCS, but I really don“t like reading a new sourcebook while being more or less required to have other sourcebooks with maps opened and strewn around my desk as well. While reading SK, I always kept asking myself things like: "Sounds familiar, but right where was this supposed to be?"
I would especially have welcomed a map of the western heartlands. It seems that within a split second, the whole area between the Dalelands and the Swordcoast is literally "crawling" with Scaly-Guys... This is were I would have really welcomed a map like they did with the "Ruins of Zhentil Keep" box, reprinting parts of already published maps, but showing the area of influence and detailing the "hidden" map features. Think of it as another map layer, one withe focus "as humans see the heartlands" the other with the focus "now thats where we are really slithering and crwaling, hssssss-hssssss".
I would have loved that. What do you think?
Alex |
Edited by - Alexander Heppe on 23 Jul 2004 08:15:48 |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 10:33:00
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No, no maps at all 
And it could have been a great thing. I hope they'll put it available to download |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 11:11:50
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I rather doubt it.
We've had the WE for SK. The only likely way WotC will release any maps for the tome (if they even exist) is possibly through the "Map-a-Week" feature...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 13:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Heppe
But is it just my copy, or is this book really lacking any decent maps? I know that the larger scale maps are to be be found in the FRCS, but I really don“t like reading a new sourcebook while being more or less required to have other sourcebooks with maps opened and strewn around my desk as well. While reading SK, I always kept asking myself things like: "Sounds familiar, but right where was this supposed to be?"
Well, as you now from reading other replies, it's not just your copy that lacks maps. I understand the feeling of wanting to look up a reference on a map while reading a piece of lore.
The only possible relief might come in future House of Serpent novels by Lisa Smedman. Many FR novels are including some map within the tomes. Perhaps a map for one of the areas discussed in SK will be shared when future novels in this trilogy are published. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 23 Jul 2004 13:29:37 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 02:13:13
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| I have to say I wasn't overly interested in SK but since it's received such good feedback here, I'm now tempted to have a closer look at it. And the fact it seems to be less 'crunchy' is always a good sign. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 10:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I have to say I wasn't overly interested in SK but since it's received such good feedback here, I'm now tempted to have a closer look at it. And the fact it seems to be less 'crunchy' is always a good sign.
Id recommend it, Reefy. Im not a crunchy guy at all and was very pleased by the fluffiness of SK. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 07:36:10
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So do I! I just won an auction for it on eBay last night, so hopefully I'll have the book within the next couple weeks.
Congrats. Please share your thoughts once you have the tome. I'm about to dive into the Realms geography section. It's a delight to see how much lore is within this tome.
So I got the book in a day or two ago, and immediately divided my reading time between that and The Floodgate (sorry, Elaine!). 
By sheer coinky-dink, I just got to the Realms section, myself.
My thoughts thus far:
By Lurue's silvery horn, look at all the pretty lore! More, more!
I like the way they decided to bring the sarrukh back. Unlike certain other returns, this is one that draws all the way back to a 1st edition supplement, and it also neatly ties in with a couple other things. (I wonder if the sarrukh have anything to do with the Rage of Dragons?)
Though I would have of course preferred even more info on the various races, what was there was a nice amount, and it was richly flavorful -- something lacking from other recent FR stuff.
The monsters section failed to impress me, though. I don't like that monsters in 3E are written up the same as they were in 1E -- "here's what you need to know to fight them right now, forget about the rest." I liked the 2E approach of giving habitat, society, and the other non-crunch stuff.
I've flipped through a couple other sections... I noticed that the naga crown has lost the annoying tendency to teleport away that it once had. Originally, though, the naga crown was said to have been created by nagas, not yuan-ti.
I've oft mentioned that I don't care about the artwork. This remains true. However, I've not had any problem with the artwork in this book. Still, I should have prefered to see a couple maps...
And with PGtF, there were several mistakes that made me wonder if the book had at all been edited. This book, on the other hand, does appear to have been well edited. Thus far, I've only found one mistake, and it wasn't major enough to really pay attention to -- I recognized it as a mistake, and kept right on reading.
I should like to also comment on the fact that I like the subject matter. It's nice to see them focus on a previously untouched bit of Realmslore.
With all this in mind, I think that when Shining South comes out, I may actually pick it up at my FLGS rather than eBay!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 12:38:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The monsters section failed to impress me, though. I don't like that monsters in 3E are written up the same as they were in 1E -- "here's what you need to know to fight them right now, forget about the rest." I liked the 2E approach of giving habitat, society, and the other non-crunch stuff.
Very much agree.
quote:
I've flipped through a couple other sections... I noticed that the naga crown has lost the annoying tendency to teleport away that it once had. Originally, though, the naga crown was said to have been created by nagas, not yuan-ti.
Magic of Faerūn has it as created by yuan-ti....
PS. I ordered it from amaazon... and have to wait 3 weeks. Hum. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 14:12:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
With all this in mind, I think that when Shining South comes out, I may actually pick it up at my FLGS rather than eBay!
I too am much more optimistic about SS after seeing how SK turned out. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 15:13:56
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I still don't have my copy.
The expanded 2E monster writeups were based on Dragon's "Ecology" articles, of which the most prolific author was... Mr Ed Greenwood. So not only are the 'Let's fight!' 3E monsters less personally appealing, they're less Realms-appropriate. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 15:32:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've flipped through a couple other sections... I noticed that the naga crown has lost the annoying tendency to teleport away that it once had. Originally, though, the naga crown was said to have been created by nagas, not yuan-ti.
Magic of Faerūn has it as created by yuan-ti....
I believe the naga crown was originally described in the first Ruins of Undermountain boxed set, though it may have appeared somewhere even earlier than that... RoU states that they were created by nagas.
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
With all this in mind, I think that when Shining South comes out, I may actually pick it up at my FLGS rather than eBay!
I too am much more optimistic about SS after seeing how SK turned out.
As am I!
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The expanded 2E monster writeups were based on Dragon's "Ecology" articles, of which the most prolific author was... Mr Ed Greenwood. So not only are the 'Let's fight!' 3E monsters less personally appealing, they're less Realms-appropriate.
Well, there was only a hundred or so critters that got the "Ecology of" write-ups. Just looking at the loose-leaf Monstrous Compendium and its dozen-plus appendices (I really liked that format, too, rather than the bound books), there were thousands of monsters -- perhaps even tens of thousands -- in 2E, and all of them got that treatment. I miss that. The habitat and ecology was as much a source for ideas as anything else. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2004 : 20:05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, there was only a hundred or so critters that got the "Ecology of" write-ups. Just looking at the loose-leaf Monstrous Compendium and its dozen-plus appendices (I really liked that format, too, rather than the bound books), there were thousands of monsters -- perhaps even tens of thousands -- in 2E, and all of them got that treatment. I miss that. The habitat and ecology was as much a source for ideas as anything else.
As a huge fan of fantasy monsters, I strongly agree with this. When I first opened the 3E Monster Manual I couldn't understand it - it was like... which crazy got hold of the editing scissors? The Fiend Folio was a lot better about detailing them, but even that fell horribly short of the great stuff produced for 2e.
Ah well. Oh and I also agree with SS' - and AE's and the Waterdeep sourcebook's - future looking bright, at the moment. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Serpent Kingdoms (SK)
