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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jul 2004 : 17:25:13
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I'm sure this will garner a lot of hissing :-), but saurials did not make the cut despite their presence in the art gallery. Apparently there was some overwriting going on by certain unnamed authors (myself included).
To be honest, I have to agree with the editor's decision ... all the races that made the cut are woven into a tangled story. Saurials, from another world, were not part of that mythology/history/culture.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 00:50:21
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Thanks Mr. Boyd.
I don't mind them not including Saurials (mind you - I'd prefer it if there wasn't any page limit... but there is) - if you can't fit them in, fair enough.
[rant]But it does annoy me that them at the WotC website then advertises the images in the art gellery. They did the same with the PGtF, and it really is unfair on potential buyers. If they want to show the art work in consideration of the artist, then they should caption it "not included in book." [/rant] |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 11 Jul 2004 00:54:04 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 01:29:39
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I'm sure this will garner a lot of hissing :-), but saurials did not make the cut despite their presence in the art gallery. Apparently there was some overwriting going on by certain unnamed authors (myself included).
Any chance that the material cut from the book could find its way onto a web article? |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 02:52:13
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Any chance that the material cut from the book could find its way onto a web article?
It's was revealed on enworld that the Saurials was the same stuff from Sean K Reynold's web article from a ways back reformated to match the rest of the book. So it may not be worth it. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 02:53:16
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Any chance that the material cut from the book could find its way onto a web article?
Guys, Darrin said they didn't include the Saurial's mostly because it was the same info that was in Dragon as well as the web article that is ALRDY up on the WOTC boards and has been for at least a year. :) He said there was a few changes to that article but not enough to include it.
Edit: BobROE beat me to it. :)
But here's the link to that article:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frx/20030528a |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 11 Jul 2004 02:54:17 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 04:09:35
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I'm sure this will garner a lot of hissing :-), but saurials did not make the cut despite their presence in the art gallery. Apparently there was some overwriting going on by certain unnamed authors (myself included).
To be honest, I have to agree with the editor's decision ... all the races that made the cut are woven into a tangled story. Saurials, from another world, were not part of that mythology/history/culture.
--Eric
That's certainly understandable, and despite my hunger for Saurial details, I'm glad it's the case. I'd much rather prefer the tome to have it's "story" created using the races it has detailed.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 04:46:06
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We'll just have to wait and see how much of the story survived the editing process - Eric writes 'long' but it's always great stuff - so any cuts hurt. I just hope Amazon get their merde together quickly.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 04:53:55
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Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that. Eric's writing style has always been one of my more favored elements from the FR sourcebooks. His source information is always so engrossing, and captivating... It's like reading a novel...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 04:56:10
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I just hope Amazon get their merde together quickly.
-- George Krashos
you and me both George
My copy of Annihalation and Elminsters Daughter are waiting on Serpent Kingdoms |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:08:39
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I just hope Amazon get their merde together quickly.
-- George Krashos
I've noticed that when it comes to FR novels, Amazon isn't that far behind in terms of a date they have an item ready versus the street date. However, for gaming products, it really is bad. I'm not talking days, but weeks from past experiences.
I wonder why there is a difference? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
It's was revealed on enworld that the Saurials was the same stuff from Sean K Reynold's web article from a ways back reformated to match the rest of the book. So it may not be worth it.
Thanks to you and EB for this clarification.
Any chance for a web enchancement on some other section that was cut out? 
You had to see that question coming. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 05:30:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
you and me both George
My copy of Annihalation and Elminsters Daughter are waiting on Serpent Kingdoms
I'm the same.
Only with me, it's just a copy of Annhilation that's waiting on Serpent Kingdoms. I received ED weeks ago...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 10:33:41
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I managed to pick up a copy of Serpent Kingdoms yesterday (along with Planar Handbook, Ravenloft Gazetteer 5, Eberron CS (i couldnt resist, sorry  ), Shadows of the Last War, WotSQ:Annihiliation, Lady of Poison and Dungeon mag (for the EB adventure and FR Marsember adventure))
I must say im quite impressed so far with SK, I need to give it more time over the next week or so though before I comment in any detail. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 10:36:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I managed to pick up a copy of Serpent Kingdoms yesterday (along with Planar Handbook, Ravenloft Gazetteer 5, Eberron CS
hmmmmmmmm, I see
::scribbles "Lord Rad" onto secret list::  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Edited by - Alaundo on 11 Jul 2004 10:37:02 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 10:53:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
hmmmmmmmm, I see
::scribbles "Lord Rad" onto secret list::
 Didn't think we'd be able to get the fire going around that stake in the courtyard with all the wards and all here in Candlekeep. But we do have to deal with the heretics - and swiftly! Someone call Fzoul for some pointers.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 10:56:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
His source information is always so engrossing, and captivating...
And sometimes hard to find! But he does do wonderful things with wierd and disparate references that I (in my uninspiring fashion) would never think to link together so seamlessly. It's truly a gift.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 13:33:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I managed to pick up a copy of Serpent Kingdoms yesterday (along with Planar Handbook, Ravenloft Gazetteer 5, Eberron CS
hmmmmmmmm, I see
::scribbles "Lord Rad" onto secret list::
and moments later a Black Black hawk Helicopter starts circling above Rads house and 3 Black Hummers pull up in his drive way......... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 14:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I managed to pick up a copy of ... Ravenloft Gazetteer 5 ...
I'm sorry Alaundo, but I have to ask... Rad, was the Shadow Rift detailed in Gaz 5? What were the other domains covered?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 14:33:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I managed to pick up a copy of Serpent Kingdoms
Oh, good, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the tome.
quote:
yesterday (along with Planar Handbook, Ravenloft Gazetteer 5, Eberron CS (i couldnt resist, sorry ), Shadows of the Last War,
I'm sorry, what were those last two? Are they some type of CCG?
quote:
WotSQ:Annihiliation, Lady of Poison and Dungeon mag (for the EB adventure and FR Marsember adventure))
Someone hit the treasure trove. Enjoy.
quote:
I must say im quite impressed so far with SK, I need to give it more time over the next week or so though before I comment in any detail.
I'm marking my calendar. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 11 Jul 2004 14:36:32 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 15:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
yesterday (along with Planar Handbook, Ravenloft Gazetteer 5, Eberron CS (i couldnt resist, sorry ), Shadows of the Last War,
I'm sorry, what were those last two? Are they some type of CCG?
You aren't serious, surely?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 17:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
yesterday (along with Planar Handbook, Ravenloft Gazetteer 5, Eberron CS (i couldnt resist, sorry ), Shadows of the Last War,
I'm sorry, what were those last two? Are they some type of CCG?
You aren't serious, surely?
Sage, have you not learned that we need a sarcasm smilie for SB?
Either that, or something about his brain is short-circuited, so he just can't retain any knowledge of WotC's new cash cow. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 08:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I managed to pick up a copy of ... Ravenloft Gazetteer 5 ...
I'm sorry Alaundo, but I have to ask... Rad, was the Shadow Rift detailed in Gaz 5? What were the other domains covered?
It certainly is, Sage. Shadow Rift is in there along with Tepest, Keening and Nova Vaasa.
::Lord Rad shouts back down the corridor at Sage, as he's being carried down into the dungeons):: its a good product, I recommend it.. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 10:15:10
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::While editing a portion of Alaundo's latest rant, Lord Rad receives a missive from one of the novice scribes. It carries the sigil of the Sage... Rad, looking left, and then right slowly opens the folded parchment. Following the short lines of text, Rad reads slowly to himself...
"Thank you, Rad. I appreciate the details."...
Rad gasps as he comes to the realisation that the text is written in blood. There is what appears to be a thumb print - possibly the Sage's - in the bottom right hand corner of the note. Lord Rad quickly crumples up the piece of parchment, looking around again to be certain that no one is watching. After he is satisfied, he resumes his duties by re-inking his cockatrice quill in the nearest ink well. Upon the completion of this stage of the editing, Rad leaves the central chambe, but not before disposing of the note in the nearest waste paper basket.::
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 21:13:14
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I obtained this tome today. Some initial thoughts based upon a quick flip through the pages:
1. I actually like the cover art. Perhaps I'm just weak when it comes to an elven female adventurer, especially one showing off her legs , but I think the scene depicted is very vibrant. I've never heard of the artist, Michael Sutfin. Does anyone know of any other WOTC work by him? I'll have to see if he has an online site.
2. I love the title page. It definitely attempts to set a tone for the book.
3. We'll have to see about the rest of the art. I'll note images I really like and really dislike as I read the tome. I do like the full page art on page 135, not so much the drawing as the fact that WOTC felt fit to show one page with nothing but art. I can't recall if any other recent FR tome had full page art.
4. Maybe it's just me or that I just did a fast glance. However, the tome feels more packed than some other recent FR tomes.
That's all for now....I really am eager to being my reading in depth later this evening.
SB |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 03:48:16
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While I was away during the weekend, I took a detailed look at SK, and I must shamefully retract my "crappy book" comment from last Friday... the book simply... reads like a gad darned GOOD novel! can't stop reading the thing.
I'm almost through the Yuan-ti section, flipped around randomly in other sections, and it's GOOD.
It has me wondering how the Yuan-ti, as a race, have not kicked the drow's collective arses yet... I thought drow we're "Faerun's schemers/masterminders" of the Realms until I started reading this book.
May the Red Wizard's Wal-Mart expansion be caused by the Yuan-ti... it would make SO much sense (in keeping with the Yuan-ti's desire to conquer/control/enslave rather than destroy...) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 03:52:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
May the Red Wizard's Wal-Mart expansion be caused by the Yuan-ti... it would make SO much sense (in keeping with the Yuan-ti's desire to conquer/control/enslave rather than destroy...)
How are you speculating that those two events are linked? |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 05:42:03
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| No, I'm merely "wishing" that they become officially linked: SK hints at the Yuan-ti's desire to control big established human power groups... such as the Red Wizards... but this is spoiling, so I'll shut up! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 07:16:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
No, I'm merely "wishing" that they become officially linked: SK hints at the Yuan-ti's desire to control big established human power groups... such as the Red Wizards... but this is spoiling, so I'll shut up!
I thought that goal had been hinted at in some past FR products although I'm sure it's expanded on within SK. I will say this, having just read through the first few pages, I feel you are right, this tome reads more like a novel/piece of lore than a gaming product with various rules/stats spaced out. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 08:51:37
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Alright… I was very doubtful at the begining. After buying tPGtF without even considering it could be a bad idea, i decided to wait carefully and see what others think about SK. Well,… it seems that’s a good book with not only PrC and Feats. So i’ll get my copy today.  |
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Serpent Kingdoms (SK)
