| Author |
 Topic  |
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 03:49:42
|
Well, I’ve finally finished this novel and over all, I found it quite enjoyable. The protagonists were interesting (with minor nitpicks below), the fight scenes didn’t bore me – after all, the majority of FR novels are 75% battle scenes – and the plot chugged along enough to keep me turning pages – I especially liked the flashback/storytelling scenes. The one great thing about this novel was that Richard Lee Byers used real dragon names instead of descriptors like “Blaze” or “Shard”. Where names of this type were used, it was clear that this was pseudonym or what humans called that particular beast – not it’s real name. This has been a pet peeve of mine for ages and I thank Richard profusely for getting it right! As a novel and story it was a good read. As an FR novel however, I have a few quibbles.
Firstly, this is intended as constructive criticism so Richard Lee Byers can read on, or not, at his leisure – if he reads this at all.
I liked Dorn as a half-golem. I thought this characterization was well thought out, certainly novel and evoked great mental images. Raryn, as an arctic dwarf, appeared to be out of place. Not much time was spent on his motivation to leave his frigid home and I think – but will stand corrected – that he appeared in his arctic dwarf glory simply because arctic dwarves are exotic, different and available. In other words, him being an arctic dwarf didn’t add much to the story or plotline other than him, well, being an arctic dwarf.
As a sideline, I seem to detect a trend where FR novelists are combing through races and picking ones to portray in their novels for ‘something different’ or even, god forbid, for the ‘kewlness’ factor. I think Paul Kemp decided to put a tanarukk in his latest Border Kingdoms novel because he thought it would be great to write about a tanarukk. Never mind what we know about tanarukk in the Realms and the relative impossibility of a lone one turning up thousands of miles to the south in the Border Kingdoms, from where it should be (i.e. the Hellgate Keep, Fallen Lands, Greypeak Mountains region). But I digress …
An avariel. Living in Lyrabar. Well, I guess anything can happen. And usually does in FR novels. With the advent of 3E avariel have now lost their mystique, legendary status and seemingly, their rarity. With respect to Richard Lee Byers, I couldn’t see Taegan lasting more than a couple of months before the Red Wizards of Thay, the Zhentarim, or a host of evil mages swooped down on him (pun unintentional) and grabbed him for magical experimentation. Avariel, being winged, have always been the ultimate weird genetic breeding material coveted by priests and wizards throughout the ages. That might not be the case anymore with 3E. Heck we can now play avariels as characters (as well as phase doppleganger elf trolls) but in the context of The Rage, a bitter remnant of the Grey Forest moon elven community or a half-elf (noting that this has been done by Elaine with Arilyn) or a star elf from the Yuirwood would have worked better. It would have given the character more ‘in Realms’ believability for me and I couldn’t get the strange image of him wearing weird tabards and cloaks that bulged in all the wrong places because of his wings, out of my head.
It is abundantly clear from the content of The Rage that Richard Lee Byers gave pgs. 202-203 of the FRCS, a darned good perusal. In fact, they may have been the seed for his story. Unfortunately, this bare bones look at Impiltur caused him to screw up in terms of the twelve lords of Imphras II. We know who they are, we know what their names are – that is, if you’ve read the FR6 and FR9 supplements. Unfortunately Richard didn’t. So we have different Lords in place in the novel to those that exist in current gaming lore. Dang. The irony is that given Richard’s work on the War of the Spider Queen series he might have discussed this novel in passing with R A Salvatore, whereupon R A might have mentioned, “Hey, I wrote some stuff on Impiltur, years ago. It’s called FR9 The Bloodstone Lands. Why don’t you check it out?”
The last couple of pages, and the reference to the elven High Magic, has me intrigued and, to put it bluntly, a tad scared. I like the premise – I’m just not sure it had to be tied in with a mythal. There is more to elven High Magic than mythals. Why would a mystery city with a mythal control the dragon Rages? Why couldn’t a simple High Magic spell, cast in that same city, be the culprit? Like avariel, it appears that mythals are becoming more commonplace in the Realms also. But I’ll reserve judgement until I see books 2 and 3.
The return of Sammaster. Well, it had to happen eventually didn’t it? The greater FR community has been clamouring for it for years. The Northern Journey group set up a fabulous campaign on this sole idea. What didn’t gel for me here was the return of Sammaster – in Lyrabar. It’s clear that Richard Lee Byers has read the “Cult of the Dragon” accessory given the information presented regarding Sammaster. However, this source really doesn’t note much Cult activity in the lands of the Easting Reach – save for the mention of a deep dragon “Plunge” under Damara or Impiltur. The Cult strongholds are in Sembia, the northern Moonsea and as of “Lords of Darkness”, the Well of Dragons in the Heartlands. I’m guessing that Impiltur was used because it really is a blank canvas for any writer – especially when all the information you are going on is from FRCS. Sembia would have been nixed by the novel department on the basis that the Sembia series did this place more than enough justice. Perhaps the Heartlands would have been a better bet …?
To conclude, in terms of a novel, this is a good one. In terms of an FR novel, it’s a fair attempt. I’d really like to see more FR flavour in Richard’s writing. Much of this novel was spent in Lyrabar and yet we didn’t get a single street name, tavern name, business name or indeed any real feel for the place. It’s amazing what a few “Taegan knew he’d find him in the Bloated Gargoyle Inn, and set off for that rough dive in the Port Quarter”-type sentences can do to transport a reader to a place in the Realms. As it was, Richard could have been writing about the city of Greyhawk for all the information he gave us on the place. I wasn’t transported, but look forward to books 2 and 3.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 04:51:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think Paul Kemp decided to put a tanarukk in his latest Border Kingdoms novel because he thought it would be great to write about a tanarukk. Never mind what we know about tanarukk in the Realms and the relative impossibility of a lone one turning up thousands of miles to the south in the Border Kingdoms, from where it should be (i.e. the Hellgate Keep, Fallen Lands, Greypeak Mountains region). But I digress …
Pardon me....Border Kingdoms novel? What is the title you are referring to?
Thanks in advance for any help.
quote:
An avariel. Living in Lyrabar. Well, I guess anything can happen. And usually does in FR novels.
Not sure if anything can change your opinion. However, there is a short story within Dragon #320 that takes a look at Taegan's arrival to the community. FYI in case you are interested in taking a look at it. |
 |
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 05:03:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think Paul Kemp decided to put a tanarukk in his latest Border Kingdoms novel because he thought it would be great to write about a tanarukk. Never mind what we know about tanarukk in the Realms and the relative impossibility of a lone one turning up thousands of miles to the south in the Border Kingdoms, from where it should be (i.e. the Hellgate Keep, Fallen Lands, Greypeak Mountains region). But I digress …
Pardon me....Border Kingdoms novel? What is the title you are referring to?
Thanks in advance for any help.
quote:
An avariel. Living in Lyrabar. Well, I guess anything can happen. And usually does in FR novels.
Not sure if anything can change your opinion. However, there is a short story within Dragon #320 that takes a look at Taegan's arrival to the community. FYI in case you are interested in taking a look at it.
I believe he means The Black Boquet by Richard Byers (poor Rich is coping a canning from George today  ) which has a Tannurek in it as one of the Villians. Paul Kemps Ervis Cale series has a Tiefling Pysionicist |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 05:34:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I believe he means The Black Boquet by Richard Byers (poor Rich is coping a canning from George today ) which has a Tannurek in it as one of the Villians. Paul Kemps Ervis Cale series has a Tiefling Pysionicist
Thank you Dargoth for the clarification. |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 06:11:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I believe he means The Black Boquet by Richard Byers (poor Rich is coping a canning from George today ) which has a Tannurek in it as one of the Villians. Paul Kemps Ervis Cale series has a Tiefling Pysionicist
Ick! My bad. Umm, apologies to Mr Kemp and I guess it is Richard who likes throwing in all those wierd and wonderful races.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 10:21:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The return of Sammaster. Well, it had to happen eventually didn’t it? The greater FR community has been clamouring for it for years.
All I can say is: Woah (Neo-style)
Does this trilogy really deal with the return of the founder of the Cult of the Dragon?
|
Ponka! Kaddu! |
|
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 11:05:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The return of Sammaster. Well, it had to happen eventually didn’t it? The greater FR community has been clamouring for it for years.
All I can say is: Woah (Neo-style)
Does this trilogy really deal with the return of the founder of the Cult of the Dragon?
Indeed it does  I must say I feel for Sammaster.
I found this novel VERY enjoyable. I expected large scale battle scenes (akin to RAS style) but was pleasantly surprised. The combat was very well written and kept me hooked. I think it took me about 1.5 days to finish this novel - whereas I usually spend a good couple of weeks - I simply couldnt put it down! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 12:17:18
|
Obviously you must have liked the cover art.
(Weee . . . never going to let that go!  ) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 14:30:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
All I can say is: Woah (Neo-style)
Does this trilogy really deal with the return of the founder of the Cult of the Dragon?
Yes, he's back and guess what....he's up to something too. |
|
|
|
Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 14:49:04
|
How inconsistant are the mistakes in this novel? Are they just down right boo boos or just a teeny weeny, blink and you'll miss, boo boos?
Nowadays not a single FR author, 'cept maybe the legends (Salvatore, Cunningham, Greenwood, etc etc) respects FR lore. And the new WOTC Policies that state that if we made a boo boo, it was a boo boo to begin with. Tut Tut. My my!
A friend of mine recently told me that back in the days of TSR, when they made a boo boo they also found a way to correct it in real time. Hence we have the "Two Khelbens".
And now not only do I hear about the coolness of 'The Rage' but I also hear that even in this novel we get continuity boo boos. Man, when will the boo boos ever end?
Also how promenint is Sammaster in the novel? |
Ponka! Kaddu! |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 14:51:45
|
Well, he has a speaking role.  He even casts Evil Spells of Destruction on poor, innocent bystanders. That enough for you? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 16:49:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Well, he has a speaking role. He even casts Evil Spells of Destruction on poor, innocent bystanders. That enough for you?
Hot diggity! Can I get a Nine Hells yeah?! 
Also is this the book with the paladin of Sune? |
Ponka! Kaddu! |
Edited by - Phantom_Lord on 03 Jul 2004 16:54:50 |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 23:30:08
|
Phantom Lord: I try really hard not to respond to criticism, because doing so is a losing game for writers. But I'm going to bend my principles sufficiently to offer a general observation: It's harsh to conclude, as you do, that if a writer makes a continuity error (or does something that you perceive as such), it shows that he isn't even trying and has no respect for FR lore.
My guess is that the average FR writer is trying hard to maintain consistency with what has gone before. But you know, there's a lot of it, it's complex, and the reality is that continuity errors inevitably creep into any long-running series. If you look, you can find them in the Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, and Nero Wolfe sagas, and each of those was set in the real world and written by a single author. When you're dealing with a wholly imaginary environment developed by multiple creators, the problem is inevitably compounded.
And compounded again by the fact that, during the time I've been a FR author, anyway, FR lore has, to some degree, been in a state of flux. Bits of information get changed or dumped, sometimes out from under the hapless fiction writer who's using, or who did use, the now-invalid info in a story.
Now obviously, if you think a writer got something wrong, and that spoils the story for you, you're perfectly entitled to hold the opinion that the work is no good. But you might consider at least giving the author the benefit of the doubt in terms of making an honest effort to get the details right. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:39:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
Nowadays not a single FR author, 'cept maybe the legends (Salvatore, Cunningham, Greenwood, etc etc) respects FR lore. And the new WOTC Policies that state that if we made a boo boo, it was a boo boo to begin with. Tut Tut. My my!
Richard Lee Byers already replied to this comment. However, I'd like to add that I too feel it's a very wide sweeping generalization that you make there. I think this statement does a disservice to many of the writers that are scribes here. You are very free to make it. However, I don't know how, unless you have some knowledge of the FR novel process, you can state with certainty that today's FR authors have no respect for FR lore. I think the very presence of so many authors at this site kinda refutes such a notion.
Again, only my opinion. You are free to believe differently. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:44:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
Also is this the book with the paladin of Sune?
When Taegan goes to speak to the Council of Lords, I recall a paladin of Sune being mentioned as one of the lords in attendance. |
|
|
|
Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 06:24:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
My guess is that the average FR writer is trying hard to maintain consistency with what has gone before. When you're dealing with a wholly imaginary environment developed by multiple creators, the problem is inevitably compounded. Now obviously, if you think a writer got something wrong, and that spoils the story for you, you're perfectly entitled to hold the opinion that the work is no good. But you might consider at least giving the author the benefit of the doubt in terms of making an honest effort to get the details right.
Mr Byers, first of all let me just say that I read Dissolution and thought it was a kick-a$$ novel.
Secondly as far as the continuity errors go I blame it more so on WOTC than on the author. Me being a fanboy and all, you'd expect peeps of my kind to get all rilled up when they find out major boo boos. Maybe I'm not good at giving creative criticism, but my point was that just because of a single boo boo a fact that has been a fact for the better part of years is suddenly not a fact anymore. Unlike Sherlock Holmes or James bond the Forotten Realms is a Game World. Most fanboys like me look for continuity and backstory as something they can fall back on.
Thirdly and finally: I've ordered The Rage (after viewing this thread!) and can't wait to sink my teeth into it. I'm sure this oes without saying, but I'll be waiting for books two and three!
One last question though, WOTC is releasing two anthologies for this trilogy. Does any one anthology feature a short story about Sammaster?
Thank you for your time!
PS~ If this thread should be somewhere else rather on this section, would the powers-that-be inform me? or they can just simply nix it, don't wanna be breaking any rules or nothing. |
Ponka! Kaddu! |
|
|
|
Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 06:33:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
Nowadays not a single FR author, 'cept maybe the legends (Salvatore, Cunningham, Greenwood, etc etc) respects FR lore. And the new WOTC Policies that state that if we made a boo boo, it was a boo boo to begin with. Tut Tut. My my!
I too feel it's a very wide sweeping generalization that you make there. I think this statement does a disservice to many of the writers that are scribes here. Again, only my opinion. You are free to believe differently.
Well I didn't want my comments to come off like I was flaming Mr Byers or something, though looking back at it now I could have put it in nicer words.
But as they say: Rothe Dung Happens. And certainly one should not cry over spilt firewine. |
Ponka! Kaddu! |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 13:11:49
|
Phantom Lord: Thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear you enjoyed Dissolution.
I hope my previous comment made it clear that I agree with you that it's important for shared-world writers (and our editors and publishers) to try to work within established continuity. It's just that in an imperfect world, we aren't always perfectly successful.
I don't think Sammaster will appear in either of the Realms of the Dragons anthologies, although I can't be absolutely sure, because I didn't edit them and haven't read everybody else's material. The only thing I'm completely certain of is that he isn't in my story. My story is part of "The Year of Rogue Dragons," though. It stars a couple of the heroes from the trilogy, serves as a bridge between Books One and Two, resolves a dangling subplot, and explains some stuff. |
|
|
|
ObsidianIII
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 06:29:38
|
On the topic of, continuity between Novels and Sourcebooks...what annoys me is novel readers, always jumping on the authors for not following the source material, but no one jumps all over the game designers when they ignore or out right change events or characters that have been documented in novels. The Game Designers ingnore novel continuity as well. Its like Elaine said years ago, think of FR world of novels as a different world than the game world presented by the source books. When I used to run my Realms campaign it was a headache for me to try and incorporate all the changes in novels and in the sourcebooks. It used to stress me out to keep up with all of it, so I didnt I edited material as I saw fit to run my campaign. What any DM should do.
I found the story line of the Cult in a far off place reasonable...who would be looking for them out there. What better place to operate. Also an Avariel was cool. The thing I absolutly could not stand about the old FR novels, there were always too many human main characters. I am a human, I find realms human characters the least exciting. I want to read about other races.
but thats just my opinion... |
"Greyones, or me mothers a friend of Orcs!" Bruenor Battlehammer" |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 07:24:47
|
I actually find the overabundance of OMG!SpeSHUL!1!!oneone characters a bit much; at this point, it seems the characters are so very special just for the sake of it. I mean, a half-golem, an arctic dwarven ranger, a song dragon in human guise, and an avariel, to boot? What are the chances...? My point is, a character stands out because of his/her personality, not his/her flashy wings, metal limbs, or physical features.
That doesn't mean I didn't like the characters in this novel, though. Taegan is fast becoming one of my favourites; I enjoy the sections focusing on him the most. Others that tickle me the right way are Pavel and Will -- a human cleric and a halfling thief, positively mundane and normal characters. I wish they were fleshed out more. Raryn seems to be... just there, more part of the background scenery than an actual character, but that's probably just me.
And then, there's Karasendrieth...
Violet eyes, platinum (silver?) blonde hair. Ow, ow. (My kingdom for a normal-looking female lead! Please? One that isn't stunningly beautiful or has ultra-unusual features? What's wrong with black hair, brown hair, or gray/brown eyes?) I can't really see why she's attracted to Dorn aside from the fact that he's male and she's female. The budding romance seems a bit contrived, although there're still two more books to go, so I guess I shouldn't be hasty to judge.
All in all, though, I enjoyed the book a lot, in spite of the fact that I don't buy many FR novels anymore (and am still burned out on fantasy). Reading it reminds me why Mr. Byers is one of my favourite authors. I don't have many objections in regard to consistencies -- or lack thereof -- with the established lore. Yes, yes, do sue me; I've stopped being a semi-hardcore FR fan long ago. (Well, I was never one, but I used to pore over the sourcebooks quite a bit.) |
Edited by - Winterfox on 06 Jul 2004 07:28:39 |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 12:36:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by ObsidianIII
Its like Elaine said years ago, think of FR world of novels as a different world than the game world presented by the source books.
If I'm the Elaine being quoted above, I can guarantee that I didn't express this sentiment. In fact, it's the antithesis of my fundamental description of FR fiction, which I view as historical fiction, with the game lore and other novels as the "history" which MUST be followed.
I've been accused more than once of "not respecting" the setting, though, like most shared-world writers, I make every effort to be true to the established lore. As has been pointed out, the Realms is not a static world, and the game rules have changed considerably over the past dozen or so years. Since the application of 3.O rules, I've received emails from confused readers who note that I refer to the elves of Tethyr variously as green, wild, and forest elves. Back when the book was written, these were all names for a single elven subrace. The 3.0 shrinking of the map inflicted "continuity errors" on previously written fiction. Travel no longer takes as much time. Isolated areas, such Ten Towns, are now readily accessible to major coastal cities.
Sometimes rule changes can create a serious dilemma for writers. Shortly after I began writing WINDWALKER, I learned that the rules for drow magic on the surface had changed--again, I might add--and that this change invalidated the fundamental plot premise of the first two books. I had to choose between internal consistency and adherence to the most recent game rules. My editor encouraged me to finish the trilogy according to second edition rules, reasoning that readers would understand what was going on. I decided to try a third and rather risky option: writing the game rule change into the story.
Rule changes aside, take into consideration the fact that ALL history is "fictitious," in that it is a narrative shaped by a point of view, and by the selection and omission of facts. Read any three history books on the same topic, and I can almost guarantee you'll find more contradictions than you'll find in FR lore, and between FR lore and novels.
Myths are far more variable than history. I've been severely criticised for the "factual accuracy" of the mythology section in the novel EVERMEET, even though what is presented in the book is a synthesis of the somewhat varied lore to be found in the sourcebooks. Myths--stories about gods--are like that; for example, you can find two versions of the creation story in the book of Genesis.
Hmmm....
|
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 06 Jul 2004 12:39:45 |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 15:05:10
|
quote:
I've been accused more than once of "not respecting" the setting, though, like most shared-world writers, I make every effort to be true to the established lore.
I'm trying to think of any FR writer I would ever think of "not respecting" the setting. I honestly cannot think of a single one. There are authors I have not enjoyed, but "not respecting" to me is a huge leap from that sentiment.
Even if a book like The Rage contained continuity errors, I don't think that's glaring proof of "not respecting" the setting. Rather, I think that's glaring proof that somewhere down the line, there was a breakdown in the process. After all, correct me if I'm wrong, but a writer, editor(s), and others are involved in the process that develops a story idea to finally a book on the shelf. Thus, aren't there plenty of chances along the way for something to be caught that conflicts with past work? But, strangely enough, in more than a few boards, I have seen only authors blasted away by fans over continuity issues. I've never seen an editor mentioned in any of these attacks. It appears that if a book does really well, the author gets all the credit. However, if a book contains errors, the author is standing alone on the stage while criticism rains down. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 06 Jul 2004 15:06:39 |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 14:43:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
And then, there's Karasendrieth...
Violet eyes, platinum (silver?) blonde hair. Ow, ow. (My kingdom for a normal-looking female lead! Please? One that isn't stunningly beautiful or has ultra-unusual features? What's wrong with black hair, brown hair, or gray/brown eyes?) I can't really see why she's attracted to Dorn aside from the fact that he's male and she's female. The budding romance seems a bit contrived, although there're still two more books to go, so I guess I shouldn't be hasty to judge.
Personally, I don't mind so much that Kara is beautiful. She's a dragon, and a song dragon at that. I don't have Monsters of Faerun, but from The Rage it seems that song dragons are more at ease in their human form than in their dragon one. They sound like highly social creatures, and beauty is a very effective way of attracting attention.
Then again, it could just be that I'm a guy and like to read about beautiful women in FR novels. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 15:35:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
Personally, I don't mind so much that Kara is beautiful. She's a dragon, and a song dragon at that. I don't have Monsters of Faerun, but from The Rage it seems that song dragons are more at ease in their human form than in their dragon one. They sound like highly social creatures, and beauty is a very effective way of attracting attention.
Just in case you were wondering, Monsters of Faerun has the following to say about Song Dragons on page 44
quote:
Song dragons...prefer life among humanity to the company of other dragons.
and
quote:
In human form, they appear to be attractive women of 20 to 30 years of age.
No word on what hair/eye color a song dragon might prefer. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.  A song dragon is free to come visit me in the form of Bridget Moynahan or Eliza Dushku. I'll gladly suffer such a fate to prove that some human males prefer their song dragons to have darker hair color. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 15:57:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
No word on what hair/eye color a song dragon might prefer. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. A song dragon is free to come visit me in the form of Bridget Moynahan or Eliza Dushku. I'll gladly suffer such a fate to prove that some human males prefer their song dragons to have darker hair color.
Gee, SB, you're so kind to take that onerous duty for yourself! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 16:44:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Gee, SB, you're so kind to take that onerous duty for yourself!
Tell me about it...I sacrifice time and time again for this board....without any accolades. But, alas, the life of some scribes... |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 20:12:59
|
quote:
In human form, they appear to be attractive women of 20 to 30 years of age.
Does this mean that all song dragons are female? Oh, and since you have MoF, could you tell me what is the spell progression of song dragons (i.e. at what sorcerer levels they start and end)?
quote:
No word on what hair/eye color a song dragon might prefer. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. A song dragon is free to come visit me in the form of Bridget Moynahan or Eliza Dushku. I'll gladly suffer such a fate to prove that some human males prefer their song dragons to have darker hair color.
Very noble of you. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 21:29:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
Does this mean that all song dragons are female? Oh, and since you have MoF, could you tell me what is the spell progression of song dragons (i.e. at what sorcerer levels they start and end)?
Yes, they always appear as human females.
Sorry, but my MoF is out of reach right now. Thus, I can't help with the spell progression right now til I get it back. Can another scribe assist him? |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 04:27:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Yes, they always appear as human females.
Does that mean that the male ones also appear as human females...? Or that all song dragons are female, in which case, reproduction must be pretty damn tricky?
quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
Personally, I don't mind so much that Kara is beautiful. She's a dragon, and a song dragon at that. I don't have Monsters of Faerun, but from The Rage it seems that song dragons are more at ease in their human form than in their dragon one. They sound like highly social creatures, and beauty is a very effective way of attracting attention.
Then again, it could just be that I'm a guy and like to read about beautiful women in FR novels.
My point is that almost all female leads in FR novels are Ultra!Omg!Beautiful-and-SPESHUL11!! Not asking for pockmarked crones with sagging breasts or anything, but it gets old after a while. Female leads that look, well, like normal people -- fairly plain, not exceptionally outstanding in appearance -- would be a welcome, refreshing change. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 04:32:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Does that mean that the male ones also appear as human females...? Or that all song dragons are female, in which case, reproduction must be pretty damn tricky?
The impression I got from reading the entry was that both male and female song dragons only appear as human females. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 05:03:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
The impression I got from reading the entry was that both male and female song dragons only appear as human females.
In the older material they were Weredragons and Weredragons were female only. I thought Ed said the same once, so maybe some one should ask him again and their offspring was always a female Weredragon, aka Song Dragon.
From Halls of the High King, "Ecology: Weredragons are fertile in both human and dragon form. They are always female and thier offspring are always other weredragons. Thier names are a misnomer, thier genetic condition is not lycanthropy that afflicts other "were" creatures. A weredragon cannot be "cured" of her abilities nor transmit them to other creatures by bite or any means. Weredragons can eat all plant and animal life and are immune to all natural venoms and toxins." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 08 Jul 2004 05:23:00 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Comments on The Rage - Spoilers
