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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 03:22:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoshimo
Wait a minute. Does that mean that every elf hails to Corellon Larethian? I though that was only surface elves. Don't the Drow fall into Lolth's safekeeping?
All SURFACE elves hail Corellon worship Lolth |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 03:25:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
All SURFACE elves hail Corellon worship Lolth
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 03:34:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoshimo
Wait a minute. Does that mean that every elf hails to Corellon Larethian? I though that was only surface elves. Don't the Drow fall into Lolth's safekeeping?
The surface elves usually worship the Seldarine, the elven pantheon, of which Corellon Larethian is the head honcho. If they worship the Seldarine, they may or may not worship Corellon specifically. They could just as readily worship another, like Sehanine Moonbow, Hanali Celanil, or Labelas Enoreth. However, they will still likely acknowledge that Corellon is the top banana as far as elves are concerned.
The drow generally worship Lolth, but she does have competition. There's Vhaeraun, Ghaunadaur, and Eilistraee, among others. But here, too, it must be acknowledged that the drow pantheon has a top banana, and the goddess formerly known as Araushnee fills that position.
For major races with pantheons, you can't really say that the head of the pantheon is worshipped by all members of the race. They will likely venerate the holy CEO, but they may choose to worship someone else.
After all, do all human adventurers worship Tymora? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 01:24:04
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| I've noticed that many Realms authors will have characters use expletives to other gods in a certain pantheon. I've noticed you use a few WR. They may not worship the other gods in the pantheon, but they would still give them their due, even the "bad" ones. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Yoshimo
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 14:07:26
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My characters generally worship Olidmmara, for most of my characters are rogues... I guess it was just meant to be. Still, I do not condone the actions that are commited by the strange little deity.
Are we getting off topic here, by the way? |
May the light of Selune light your path and Olidammara guide your footsteps ~Shadow Thief Motto |
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Yoshimo
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 14:09:48
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Thank you for the description, Wool. I possess a vague understanding of your explaination. |
May the light of Selune light your path and Olidammara guide your footsteps ~Shadow Thief Motto |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 14:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoshimo
Thank you for the description, Wool. I possess a vague understanding of your explaination.
*bows* Not a problem. That's what we're here for.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Tethtoril
Seeker
95 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 15:32:53
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Aye Yoshimo. This scroll is wandering off-topic again. *nudge, nudge*
Back to redemption of the drow!!  Else I may have to do a little redeeming of my own.  |
Tethtoril
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood |
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Fireheart
Learned Scribe
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 18:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
I think it would mean that those Drow who touched the stones would have to at least change alignment away from evil, but not necessarily to good. The redeeming part would be their acceptance by Corellon Larethian back into the Elven fold.
Okay, next question. Good drow draws the sword and picks up one of the stones. She is already good...what would being redeemed mean to her? Would she lose her drow looks and change to a surface elf? What about powers? Would she no longer be able to worship Elistrae (sp)?
Thanks for the input!
~Fireheart |
I believe in what I see/I believe in what I hear/I believe that what I'm feeling/Changes how the world appears
-Rush "Totem" |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 19:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireheart
Okay, next question. Good drow draws the sword and picks up one of the stones. She is already good...what would being redeemed mean to her? Would she lose her drow looks and change to a surface elf? What about powers? Would she no longer be able to worship Elistrae (sp)?
I don't see why she would not be allowed to worship Eilistraee even if she changed to resemble a surface elf. I'd lean more towards the latter not happening. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 20:37:57
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I remember looking through my F&P last night looking at the Drow pantheon. Elistraee and Lolth are both under the regular Realms pantheon while the other Drow gods are under the Drow pantheon. I would say that since Elistraee is not under the Drow nor Elven pantheon's that her followers would have to be redeemed even though they are of good alignment. Of course they may not care. If Elistraee has not been accepted back into the Elven pantheon, however, would her followers be accepted even if they are non-Drow?
I'm taking this from memory, so the descriptions may indicated otherwise. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 20:57:14
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
I remember looking through my F&P last night looking at the Drow pantheon. Elistraee and Lolth are both under the regular Realms pantheon while the other Drow gods are under the Drow pantheon. I would say that since Elistraee is not under the Drow nor Elven pantheon's that her followers would have to be redeemed even though they are of good alignment. Of course they may not care. If Elistraee has not been accepted back into the Elven pantheon, however, would her followers be accepted even if they are non-Drow?
I'm taking this from memory, so the descriptions may indicated otherwise.
Hang on here. Eilistraee has to be accepted by the Seldarine because she now has a realm on Arvandor! Either she is or is not accepted by them, and if she isn't then she should not "Make her home in Arvandor with her cousins of the Seldarine." So says page 143 of the Player's Guide. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:01:34
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
I remember looking through my F&P last night looking at the Drow pantheon. Elistraee and Lolth are both under the regular Realms pantheon while the other Drow gods are under the Drow pantheon.
They are under the Major Deities of Faerun section. This listing is not a pantheon but simply the publisher putting the most popular deities first. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:03:22
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Hang on here. Eilistraee has to be accepted by the Seldarine because she now has a realm on Arvandor! Either she is or is not accepted by them, and if she isn't then she should not "Make her home in Arvandor with her cousins of the Seldarine." So says page 143 of the Player's Guide.
I'm still clinging to the hope that this change is foreshadowing something regarding the WOTSQ conclusion. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:20:16
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| Which makes sense since Lolth is listed in the major deities section. There is no doubt that she is in the Drow pantheon. Wasn't Elistraee banished with the other Drow gods. When did she come back into the Elven fold? |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:27:16
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Which makes sense since Lolth is listed in the major deities section. There is no doubt that she is in the Drow pantheon. Wasn't Elistraee banished with the other Drow gods. When did she come back into the Elven fold?
It doesn't say, and according to the 3e planar cosmology she couldn't have been because she has always existed on Arvandor, and so 2e's material has been retconned. :) Unless as Sirius says they decide to fix that in the Spider Queen novels. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:44:19
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| Thus the confusion. They changed it without explaining why yet. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:51:04
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Unless as Sirius says they decide to fix that in the Spider Queen novels.
Cling to that belief along with me kuje31, it will help convince me I'm not simply being overly optimistic. |
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Fireheart
Learned Scribe
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
[quote]
It doesn't say, and according to the 3e planar cosmology she couldn't have been because she has always existed on Arvandor, and so 2e's material has been retconned. :) Unless as Sirius says they decide to fix that in the Spider Queen novels.
I thought i'd read somewhere the because Eilistrae (sp?) choose to "fall" she maintained residences in both the Drow location and with the Seldarin...does this ring a bell to anyone?
What about redeeming in terms of looks/abilities?
~Fireheart |
I believe in what I see/I believe in what I hear/I believe that what I'm feeling/Changes how the world appears
-Rush "Totem" |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 21:59:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireheart
I thought i'd read somewhere the because Eilistrae (sp?) choose to "fall" she maintained residences in both the Drow location and with the Seldarin...does this ring a bell to anyone?
~Fireheart
No, only thing I recall is out of the three that left the Seldarine, she is the only one who might return one day. <Sniff> Daddy's girl that she is! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 22:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Cling to that belief along with me kuje31, it will help convince me I'm not simply being overly optimistic.
I'd love to, but WOTC has yet to show any actions that I could fall back on for any of these 3/3.5 changes, so I am not that optimistic. :)
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2004 : 22:34:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireheart
I thought i'd read somewhere the because Eilistrae (sp?) choose to "fall" she maintained residences in both the Drow location and with the Seldarin...does this ring a bell to anyone?
If this is so, I'd love to see it in any of the official books, so please supply 3e or 3.5e passages that says as much.... Maybe this was a homebrew reason, but as far as I know there is no such passage in official printed lore.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Prince Indirian
Acolyte
Sweden
14 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2004 : 00:47:44
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First of all, as far as I know Elistraee willingly left Arvandor for the sake of the fallen dark elves. She was NOT banished. And the Faith and Pantheons say that her home plane is Arvandor and the Demonwebs Pits
I am pretty sure that she will abandon her residence in the Demonweb Pits. Well a´t least if certain follower of her (Elistraee) fails her mission. She will need to hide at dads crib for awile. Cuz mommy is angry. I belivie Vhaerun will need to do this to. If Lloth ends up more powerful, then he will certainly need someone to protect. And Vhaerun lacks those kind of Alliances. So he will probably have to crawl back to dad. And stay there for awile.
By the way I would love it if Lloth gains som extra power and Elistraee once again joins the Seldarine. Then we can get the kind of warfare we want. The Seldarine versus the beefed up LLoth. I mean Lloth just have to test her newfound powers. Are there any better guinea-pigs than her former allies or children. Even though she will lose, the seldarine will still be surprised. |
Edited by - Prince Indirian on 10 Jun 2004 00:51:43 |
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Urlithani
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 22:47:25
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quote:
Another example is in WotSQ series, Halisstra was a cruel priestess of Lolth but her time in the surface changed her and turned her into a compassionate and gentle priestess of Eilistraee.
Ahh poop on a stick. That's what happened to my half-drow fighter's mom. Now they're gonna call me a copycat even though I made up the whole thing before WotSQ came out.  |
Biggest. Selûne. Fanboy. Ever! :)
"The only reward of Virtue is Virtue." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The time is always right to do what is right. "
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2004 : 04:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Urlithani
Ahh poop on a stick. That's what happened to my half-drow fighter's mom. Now they're gonna call me a copycat even though I made up the whole thing before WotSQ came out.
Copycat. |
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darkflame millithor
Seeker
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2006 : 22:25:02
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I know I'm new to the forum but when it comes to drow I can't remain silent like lolth!
The drow wont leave lolth because opf senerios like when hassitra battled quental(nuff said).
If a god(dess) can't bring them the same power as lolth then that deity won't pass muster.My poeple respect power and only power. look at the things they do to acheive and keep it.assasinations,demon-worship,demon-intimatecy,child sacrifice,mass-murder. Lolth may be the reason of our continued evil..errr amorality,but she only took the ambition that came from correlons blood and increast it expoited it,and exulted it. We are not the only bad seed of the seldarine,the golds were just as cruel destroying entire nations because they (we)
wouldn't accept them as ower rulers(myeritar).
They wanted our magic(myeritar was the center of highmagic and arts at the time of their murder),the golds consorted with evil too.Evils like fallen-solars(malkizid),in order too learn the dark magic(mithal craft of war)nessisary to over come the peaceful,nature loving,good natured dark and green elves of myeritar.
when this happened and the wicked taitor seldarine didn't lift a divine finger to stop them or help us,all lolth had to do was say"look I told you so ,my daughter is to leak to protect you .come my children we 'er too late to help your kinsman but not to late to avenge them,I'll
show you how(scream,blood-shed,terror,exultation)
Now that wasn't so bad,look what you can do now!"
correlon failed us so he does not deserve us. Let him keep his golds blah,blah,blah, ect.
In my campaigne,my own drow arch-mage is trying to acheive apothiosis to became the drow god of magic,wildmagic,travelers(not conquers),energy,drowmages,faeress power(and secretly elven reunity. Correlon and the seldarine (da** them)have agreeed to sponser him
when he dies if he completes the quests they have set for him(he earned the chance by acting
as vessal to correlon's mastery of elven magic during the time of troubles-correlon didn't have
time to reach his chosen avatar.-(Gruumsh interferance) so far he has battled an avatar of lolth(during loyalty test),vhearaun in the abyss,desecrated the elder eyes temple,and retreived the raw weave that cyric cut from the prison of keazef (in prince of lies) and returned it to mystra thus earning her blessings though he couldn't be magister(no one touched by the power of a god is allowed to be magister.)Mystra's only request was for him to apprentice under elminster to learn"the basics of how to manipulate magic".
Raiden"darkflame"millithor is
20lvlwildmage,3lvlarchmage,2lvlepic,because of correlons power he has high magic potential.
He still has to found a surfacerealm of elves or rebuild an old one.Thus I now haunt elvencourt with the jaelri drow though not beholden to them.(for some reason elminster has disappeared and the folk of shadow dale think I'm responsible.I wonder why.The racists).
If I can't acheive this goal I'm going to shade to learn the basics at the feet of the most high-
Telemont Tanthul.
I will seize the throne of lolth one day! ALL HAIL DARKFLAME!!! |
purge all weakness in the cleanzing flame of
rightousness.tear down the false idols of love,compassion,and self-sacrifice.down with the tyranny of the seldarine |
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Aquanova
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 21:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Urlithani
Ahh poop on a stick. That's what happened to my half-drow fighter's mom. Now they're gonna call me a copycat even though I made up the whole thing before WotSQ came out.
I know your pain. Except my situation regards a novel character nearly identical to one of my own... and like you, I'd conceived said character well before I'd even known of the novels.
I feel your pain, brother.  |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 22:08:26
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All of my great ideas were "borrowed" by authors and published before I thought of them...where is the justice!
Mod edit: "Stolen" is such a harsh word when referring to the works of FR authors.
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 May 2006 00:49:56 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 10:13:43
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| On a sidenote - as this has been discussed on the WizBoards a few times too I will not expand much more here - to redeem someone, you must have someone who wants to be redeemed. It's not like the drow stripped of Lolth would yearn to be normal dark elves on the surface again, walking the Realms alongside their surface kin. They know nothing but what is told to them by the priestesses (if anything) about the elves and about their own history. To them, it is all clear. In many ways, this attempt to make the drow "good" or even "neutral" again is much like e.g. returning Tolkien's orcs back into elves or something. And while we are at it, surface elves have proven time and again that they are by no means just good-doing nature-lovers and all. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gćđ a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerűn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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ZĂ©mobiel
Acolyte
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 03:11:55
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i would simply like to highlight something who has been said in the trilogy the conselors and the Kings
they are say to back to the day before the Drows became the drows, they have done experiments and have undergone somes trip to the court of the Unselies, that who have marked and corrupted in some way |
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Drow Redemption
