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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 04:05:15
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The Elder Drow scroll got me interested in something.
Ok...so we know there are Drow on MANY worlds...and each has its own story as to WHY they are and HOW they got there...all including the Elven Gods as far as I can tell...
But what if the Drow are actually a much older curse than even the Elven Gods?
We know the elves once belonged to the "realm of faerie" so to speak...well, what if Drow have always been as long as there have been Seelie and Unseelie?
Does anyone have any thoughts? My head is still brewing this up...
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 04:13:51
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A theme I really enjoy, especially with Fae, is that the stories of old are constantly repeated.
Especially with the Fae, and the Land of Faerie (Feywilde) being linked with the Realm of Dream, these planes have always felt like a 'font of inspiration, creation, etc..'.
I like the idea of Corellon casting down Araushnee, and cursing her with her spider form.
What if Drow have been around as long as the Seelie/Unseelie?
What if it was the 'original' casting down of Araushnee that caused this separation in the courts? |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 05:09:52
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I could see that Aurashnee could obviously be the cause of the separation...
HOWEVER...I think the split between the Seelie and Unseelie goes back much earlier in history than even that.
I'm honestly uneducated in the origin of the Elven Pantheon as it is...
Anyone care to give an quick rundown on its origin for me here? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 05:58:17
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| As near as I can tell, the Seelie and Unseelie Courst are wholly separate from the Seldarine. In 2nd ed, Tytania and Oberon and Lurue as well, were all listed as deities of fey creatures, completely unrelated to the Seldarine, though they did seem to have alliances. The other fey gods were included in this separate pantheon as well, though I forget the names ATM. So if drow were part of that court, they would not have been cast down with Araushnee, because they would not have followed her. But that is not to say that you couldn't have her take over the Unseelie Court by subsuming one or more of its deities, and tie it in that way. It's really kind of open to interpretation, after all. And Dragon once features a drow-like race of fey, though I can't recall the name off-hand. Just that they are very dark-skinned, and tend towards being rogues and assassins in the Unseelie. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 10:00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I could see that Aurashnee could obviously be the cause of the separation...
HOWEVER...I think the split between the Seelie and Unseelie goes back much earlier in history than even that.
I'm honestly uneducated in the origin of the Elven Pantheon as it is...
Anyone care to give an quick rundown on its origin for me here?
Wait, carrying the title "Master of Realmslore" but being uneducated in the origin of the Elven Pantheons (Panthei, actually)? That does not match!  You'd be surprised, but [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Forgotten_Realms_deitiesWikipedia is your friend[/url].
As far as I know, these seelie and unseelie stuff is a late-comer in the FR setting, if it is really mentioned there at all (pre-4E). Generally, I would suggest that when it comes to the origin of the elven people, the dark elves (later to be known as drow) originate in some sort of "darker" fey (whether both in colour and general "alignment" or not) and Araushnee's/Lolth's advances simply but them over the edge later on. The seelie / unseelie though are just another branch of the fey evolution tree that developed besides the elves and what have you, and whether they share any relations to or with the drow these days is up to you. Going by canon, there's not much though. |
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Gćđ a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerűn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 14:37:05
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Fey beings...seelie/unseelie are mentioned in Monster Mythology...an early 2E supplement....lots of early & obscure realms lore in there |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Edited by - Snowblood on 08 Oct 2010 14:37:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 15:09:59
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Sorry, haven't read the responses yet so pardon any redundancy...
In my hombrew Fey lore, Faerie is a demiplane, just like Ravenloft is/was. In my own stuff, ALL demiplanes have a starnge, alien awareness all of their own, which some fortunate denizens are able to 'tap' into (like how the Darklords of RL can close their realms).
Why these planes are sentient, and to what degree, and what their motivations are are beyond mortal (and even deific) understanding. Some scholars believe they are proto-planes - young, immature Planes that will one day become full planes. Other sages believe they are Elder Gods that have lost their cohesion, and as they grow their minds begin to slip-away.
Whatever the story, each demiplane has its own, unique 'agenda', the rules of which are nearly impossible to fathom. The one common thread running through all of them is that they can reach 'tendrils' of themselves into other planes, usually to kidnap interesting beings from those places (although many times it appears to be completely random).
That's faerie, and it resides within the Feywild....at least for now. It has permanent connection to many upper (and lower) planes, like Arvandor and Olympus, but very few permanent ones to the Prime material. faerie prefers to have parts of itself materialize in the mortal realms, like a forest suddenly appearing overnight, or a hill that becomes a 'Fairy Castle' on certain nights. Powerful inhabitants (Archfey, Le'Shay, etc) can influence these appearances to some degree.
On the other hand, the Feywild has many permanent portals, but nearly all of them are 'keyed' to Fey-blooded creatures, and will only open for them and only for a short time. Fey use these 'gates' to move through the Feywild and then return elsewhere in the mortal realms, both for stealth and as a type of 'shortcut' - although the Feywild mirrors whatever plane it is touching in a location, the distances are much smaller (though it is highly variable to what extent).
Thats the Feywild (in my own homebrew material)...
As for 'dark Elves' - at least the originals - they were the Unseelie fey that were too wild (Gru literally translating to 'wild', or feral) for Titania's court. Although part of her subjects, she preferred they stay outside the Realms of Faerie - her Royal demesne. These 'Unseelie' - Seelie meaning those that follow the law of titania - preferred to take monstrous forms and play cruel tricks upon others (all Fey have a natural shape-change ability).
Meanwhile, Titania had twin sons, but with different fathers - one by Frey of the Vanir (light Elves) and one by Malekith of the Dökkálfar, and their names were Cor Ellion and Gru mass (wild spirit). Although they were very different, the two were very close... at first. After the death/disappearance of Malekith, Titania ordered all the remaining Svartálfar to leave her court in Faerie and dwell within the greater Feywild. Her son gru Mass was so angry at her treatment of his father's people that he joined them as their king and left her realm.
End of part I (I need to reboot this computer LOL)
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Oct 2010 16:30:57 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 16:29:01
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Part II: The shattering of the Fey
Soon after learning of his brother's departure, Cor Ellion attempted to convince Titania to let the Unseelie stay in Faerie, but she would not relent. In anger he renounced his allegiance to his mother and gathered his own people - the (Ljósálfar) - and lead them to a remote corner of Faerie - an island off the coast - and established a new realm called Tin'ta-gyr ('land of freedom'). He invited his brother and his people to join him; while some did, including Gru-Mass himself, many continued to dwell outside of Faerie in the Feywild.
For may years the brothers jointly ruled their new kingdom in peace, and over this time they two and their families, along with certain members of their entourage, had naturally 'ascended' to deific level in the eyes of their people.
But Titania had had a vision that the Dökkálfar would turn on the other Eladrin (Elven peoples) and her sons would become bitter enemies, and her plan to separate them before that tragedy had only set off the chain of events that would lead up to it. Saddened, she ordered the remaining Aelfir that had stayed loyal to her to return to the mortal realms, from whence they sprang so long ago, and prepare it for the Eladrin who she foresaw would need a new home. And so they went, the many tribes - Illythiir, Sylvanarra, Lythaanai, Kagonesti, Aevaria, Haltija (small ones), Qualinesti, Sildëyuir , ect - to numerous worlds, for Titania could not determine exactly which sphere her children would flee to.
The falling-out of the brothers was long in-coming, for Titania's vision was correct, and the Unseelie were becoming more troublesome, often harming Cor'ellon's people with their awful pranks and hideous shapes. But it was the coming of Auraushnee that brought things to a head. She was the fairest Fey-maiden either of the brothers beheld, and both coveted her when she arrived, presumably as a refugee from "Titania's despotic rule". Neither brother realized that she was the daughter of Aurilanna, Titania's cruel and twisted sister, and therefor their cousin. She had been sent by her mother to the realm of the Eladrin to cause mischief and contention, and she did her mother's bidding well.
The brothers fought, presumably over the unruliness of the Dökkálfar, but in truth it was because of jealousy over Auraushnee. Not only was the beautiful temptress their cousin, but she was also Gru-Mass' half-sister; his father Malekith had ascended long ago and now went by the name Loki, and had fathered her upon Aurilanna. One thing lead to another, and their battle left Gru-Mass without one of his eyes, and although Cor'ellon refused to fight his brother after delivering the wound, the damage had already been done, and Gru-Mass left Tin'Ta'gyr with his Unseelie subjects for the mortal realms.
Unfortunately for them, they did not understand that the shapes they had taken - horrifying as they were - would become permanent. The natural shape-changing ability of the Fey would be lost to them forever when they left the power of the feywild behind. Some became bitter, and in their jealous rage turned on all that was beautiful in the world, while others resigned themselves to their fate.
As for the rest, we know the story - at least how it is told by the Elves. In truth, their were two sets of 'Dark Elves', although the first were fey and followers of Grumsh. The children of the 'first arrivals' became mortal (although still with amazingly long life-spans), because their connection to the Feywild had been lost to them. With each passing generation, as they lose their 'fey-ness', they become more mortal and their lives become shorter. For the Unseelie, this process was magnified - unlike their Eladrin brethren, they shunned places were fey-magic seeped into the mortal world, and so lost their power all the swifter. The Ilythiir who were to become 'Dark Elves' much later were different from their predecessors - they were never 'Dark Fey'. Their corruption had come at the hubris of their leaders, and the gods they chose to worship. Indeed, the children of Grumsh and the followers of Auraushnee (now Lolth) hate each other nearly as much as they hate the 'Light Elves'.
And so it was, but this tale is not told by Eladrin, or Drow, or even the Goblins and Orcs (the Dökkálfar's mortal descendants), and even the Fey do not speak of such things, for all are shamed by it, and even the eldest of their scholars no longer remember the truth of things. Only the centaurs keep an accurate accounting of those times, hidden-away on a world of their own somewhere.
But the gods know, and if there is one thing that will make them work together, it is too keep these secrets deeply buried, and they spare no expense to obliterate any who uncover them.
End of homebrew.........
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 17:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
Fey beings...seelie/unseelie are mentioned in Monster Mythology...an early 2E supplement....lots of early & obscure realms lore in there
Right you are! that was the source I mentioned above, and lurue is mentioned amonf the "Farie" pantheon. As is Tytania, and Obereon. corellon, Lolth(Araushnee) and Grumsh are all in their own pantheons in it, as well. It's one of the best early sources for deific lore, IMO. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 18:07:12
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Damn - comp shutdown and I lost part III - there goes about an hr of writing 
BTW, Drow fear Fey (I assume Seelie) - it was in that Halruaa series by Elaine.
Tall tales of the Wee Folk was the only official D&D product to ever exclusively cover the Fey. Although for Mystara (OD&D) the info in it is still useful for anyone wanting to run a 'Fairy Court'.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Oct 2010 18:19:44 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2010 : 18:29:08
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Not claiming my lore is 'on target' - its almost entirely fabricated - all I did was stitch together a lot of disparate lore and give the whole thing a bit of a LotR spin (that Orcs and Elves are related), but with FR/D&D flavor.
The 3rd part has to do with Drow and the descent curse - I'll re-write it later when I can get on a better comp (I'm repairing this one right now). It covers why there are Drow all over the multiverse, and why the 'First Elves' came to Toril (having to do with the Giant-Dragon war that stems from the before-time). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2010 : 14:06:48
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I think the origins of drow corruption are related to the Unseelie split and the Dark god/Moander/Elder Elemental Eye/Jubilex/Ghaunadaur/Tharizdun. I had this all connected, the story from Mystara (Tall Tales) and the dreaden (Immmortals), the leshay myth, fall of Ladinion (Monster Mythology), Moander's hatred for the Creator Races (Netheril), the Sundering, the Crown Wars (fought over the Crown of Horns, bladelings and the dabus, plus alot of homebrew about orcs, Acheron, Malar, Shar, and the Far Realm. Turned out to be too much.
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
A theme I really enjoy, especially with Fae, is that the stories of old are constantly repeated.
Especially with the Fae, and the Land of Faerie (Feywilde) being linked with the Realm of Dream, these planes have always felt like a 'font of inspiration, creation, etc..'.
yea, everything happens in cycles for the fey, I based it thematically on what Mark Twain said about history, that it does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why these planes are sentient, and to what degree, and what their motivations are are beyond mortal (and even deific) understanding. Some scholars believe they are proto-planes - young, immature Planes that will one day become full planes. Other sages believe they are Elder Gods that have lost their cohesion, and as they grow their minds begin to slip-away.
Whatever the story, each demiplane has its own, unique 'agenda', the rules of which are nearly impossible to fathom. The one common thread running through all of them is that they can reach 'tendrils' of themselves into other planes, usually to kidnap interesting beings from those places (although many times it appears to be completely random).
That's great, fits with the World Tree. |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2010 : 14:40:20
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| I love what you've done with the place Markus.....very fey of you....expect e visit from the pixie death squads for nutting out all their secrets.....very nicely done!!!!! |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2010 : 14:54:42
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| Oh, and just another bit of info: Seelie and Unseelie sprites were presented in the 2E Spellbound boxed set. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2010 : 15:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I think the origins of drow corruption are related to the Unseelie split and the Dark god/Moander/Elder Elemental Eye/Jubilex/Ghaunadaur/Tharizdun.
I think I may use something akin to that for the first split, when Gru-Mass left Titania's court. In the context of my lore, Malar would be a better fit then the 'Slimey Gods'. However, I think I can work it in (afterall, they lived on Abeir-Toril before they were able to steal a piece of the Dreamtime and create Faerie)
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I had this all connected, the story from Mystara (Tall Tales) and the dreaden (Immmortals), the leshay myth, fall of Ladinion (Monster Mythology), Moander's hatred for the Creator Races (Netheril), the Sundering, the Crown Wars (fought over the Crown of Horns, bladelings and the dabus, plus alot of homebrew about orcs, Acheron, Malar, Shar, and the Far Realm. Turned out to be too much.
Would still love to hear whatever you had.
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
A theme I really enjoy, especially with Fae, is that the stories of old are constantly repeated.
Especially with the Fae, and the Land of Faerie (Feywilde) being linked with the Realm of Dream, these planes have always felt like a 'font of inspiration, creation, etc..'.
Hence, my version of The Plane of dreams
Homebrew, of course, and I did that quite awhile ago so its a bit dated.
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Yea, everything happens in cycles for the fey, I based it thematically on what Mark Twain said about history, that it does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.
Nice - it does seem that way, especially with the Elves. I found I had quite accidentally created several sets of twins that wound-up hating each other later (but that's mostly HB, except for Titania and her sister).
There is a deeper connection between the Drow and Goblinoids. The Ilythiir were one of the few dark-Elven tribes that refused to follow Gru-Mass when he left Faerie. They focused their 'feral nature' inward, and were able to hide their more disturbing personality traits from the other Elves/Eladrin.
Just thought of something - 'El' could possibly mean children in High Elven/Auld Fey. 'Ves' could have been a word meaning 'leaving the nest' (being a nature-oriented people), and 'Adrin' may have meant 'loyal'. In that way, the El'Ves would have been those 'children' sent into the mortal world, and the El'Adrin could have been those that stayed behind in Faerie with their Le'Shay forbears.
Just a thought... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 01:47:33
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Erevan Illesere was the father of one of Titania's Inner Circle, right? I also read somewhere that Erevan was married to someone in the Seelie Court... but I forget who!
In 'The Elves of Evermeet', it says that the sylvan races are allowed to live there based on the friendship between the Seldarine and Oberon/Titania.
What if the Seldarine make up one 'Court', and the Seelie are a sub-court? Like, The Seldarine are 'Kings' and the Seelie Inner Circle are like 'Dukes'? Especially if Erevan is the progenitor of one of their gods? And doubly so if Erevan married into the Seelie Court! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 02:45:31
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I know that Wizards had some really good Core articles on the Fey a few years ago.
Seelie and Unseelie. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 19:46:27
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| In Zakhara there are burned elves, drow are from Muspelheim, where is Eilistraee, figure out |
z455t |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 21:44:21
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Zakharan Elves are rather bland (as are all the demi-humans of that setting). Its the one thing I think they really messed-up in Al-Qadim.
I understand how they wanted to push the Arabian flavor to the forefront (which is wonderful), but then they should have just left the standard Fantasy races out. Why bother adding them as an 'after thought'?
The other way would have been to give them more of an Athasian (Darksun) flavor, but that would have 'stepped on the toes' of another official setting back then. From what I understand of TSR's policy back then, if something was pivotal (important) to one setting, it was pushed into the background in the others. Having two desert-based settings out probably caused them some consternation in that regard.
In my Elven Netbook HB lore, I created yet-another sub-race; the Brown Elves - really just a sub-group off the Sylvan/Green elves. They are the nomadic culture of the Elven people (found in Zakhara, Maztica, and Anchorome, as well as a small cluster in the Raurin Desert).
The Drow of Zakhara are surface dwelling, although still intolerant of light. They live inside places below ground, but not in the Underdark (its debatable weather Zakhara even has an Underdark). Caves are the most common place to find the more 'barbaric' Drow, but they do have at lest one surface city (Akota), and live inside of anthill-like structure with no windows.
I picture them dressing much like 'Sand People' of Star wars fame during the daylight hours.
Mostly Homebrew here - the Dark Elves do indeed dwell in the vicinity of Akota, but there is little to no lore on them or that region. They appear to trade with some folk of Zakhara, but the majority of human and demi-human peoples avoid them.
The connections to the Fey are non-existent, AFAIK, since they don't even seem to be in-touch with their Elven heritage anymore (both the surface Elves and Drow of Zakhara). If their is any animosity between the Elven groups it is not mentioned in any of the sources (once again, AFAIK). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Oct 2010 21:45:03 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 21:53:54
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Well we will have to disagree on that one Markus. I think giving all the races the same culture in the civilized areas was one of the best ideas from the Al Quadim line. Unfortunately many of the products didn't follow up properly on the basis given. These are almost uniformly excellent, but they became extremely human dominated in their focus. The "change everything" away from the basis done in all the other "cultural" settings never worked that way.
I seem to remember it being said somewhere though that the Drow, along with the ogre mages and Illithids were examples of races that were always seen as a threats; I cant remember where I read it though. But as far as I remember that is, along with a mention of Lolth, the only mentioning of Drow in Al Quadim that I can think of. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 00:08:02
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Lolth, like some other Faerunian gods, had a different name in Zakhara.
I see your point, Jorkens, but like you yourself said, they really never did anything with the demi-humans, ergo why I feel their presence was rather pointless to the setting.
The reason why commerce (to some extent) with the Drow can be extrapolated from the lore is that they are mentioned (in that region) in the context of raiding trade caravans. The only known settlement in that area is Akota (which appears to be the name of both the realm and the city, so probably a citystae on the same order as the rest of Zakhara).
Akota is assumed to be associated in some way with the Drow (I got that off of several Al-Qadim sites), but it isn't really clear if it is entirely Drow, or a place where Drow live alongside others. In any event, trade caravans are going into the 'Drow area', so they must be trading with someone.
Flimsy, I know, but its all we really have to go on.
And like I said, the only reason I brought all this up (in this thread) is because there doesn't seem to really be any sort of Fey or even Elven culture in the area. Too bad I can't reference my Al-Qadim MM ATM, but IIRC all the 'spirits' (Fey-like beings) of Arabian culture are directly related to the Dgen and their hierarchy.
I do find it interesting that they used 'Daemon' instead of Demon, and if we translate that into D&D lore it means that the evil extra-planer race for Middle-Eastern style cultures would be 'loths.
I just thought of something... Lolth... Lloth... Yugoloths...
Makes me wonder if Lolth absorbed a spider-like Yugoloth when she became a Demon-Queen.
Anyway, all thoughts for another thread... I'm easily side-tracked... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 05:33:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
(snip)
I see your point, Jorkens, but like you yourself said, they really never did anything with the demi-humans, ergo why I feel their presence was rather pointless to the setting.
The reason why commerce (to some extent) with the Drow can be extrapolated from the lore is that they are mentioned (in that region) in the context of raiding trade caravans. The only known settlement in that area is Akota (which appears to be the name of both the realm and the city, so probably a citystae on the same order as the rest of Zakhara).
(snip)
The Al-Qadim Arabian Adventures states that the demihumans live on the fringes of Zakharan society. To me, that's not much different as the few elves and gnomes you'd see in a place like Athkatla. Plenty of roleplay potential w/those minority races in the midst of a society where the mainstream has been detailed heavily, I think.
As for the other point, Dambrath is juss north-west-west of Zakhara. Plenty of open-ended RP'ing to get Drow into an Al-Qadim campaign. |
Edited by - bladeinAmn on 12 Oct 2010 05:34:25 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 07:19:42
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| I know it's not FR specific lore, but the Natural 20/Goodman Games 3.5 book Complete Guide to Drow has a possible link for Al-Qadim. It mentions that one branch of the original race of dark elves moved into the deserts, took the name "Ben-drouin" and became wandering nomads who interbred with humans, giving rise to the Bedouin tribes. It mentions that their skin lightened to a dark caramel color, and they became swift raiders. Of course, it also says that they were eventually bred out of existence, but it would not be a stretch to suppose that a few scattered remnants still exist. And there's your Al-Qadim drow, all ready to go. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 08:57:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Lolth, like some other Faerunian gods, had a different name in Zakhara.
I see your point, Jorkens, but like you yourself said, they really never did anything with the demi-humans, ergo why I feel their presence was rather pointless to the setting.
Just one more sidetracking post which I am sure will be forgiven. The City of Delights box did make use of these elements, with the ogre docking firm, the orc in the harem, the kobolt scholars goblins etc. And even if the published sources somewhat ignored it it is part of the setting if used, just as relatively ignored Ed lore is a part of the setting. A caravan could be owned by a married goblin and halfling couple working for an ogre scribe which discussed philosophy with human scholars at the bazaar each night whilst the dwarven barbers gossiped with the elven carpet seller over the newly arrived pearls brought be investing kobolts.
There is the great example of the beholder who sued an adventurer party for trespassing, breaking and entering, larceny and assault, and won the case.
And with 3ed. Al Quadim would be a wet dream for anyone with a love for 1/2 species. Here anything could be possible and no one would care. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 00:41:33
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| Back to the topic of drow and unseelie- I just had a great idea to link them. We have already decided that Arashnee might have been the daughter of Tytania's unseelie sister. But what about her father? I was thinking it could be Erevan. That would make "chaos" the daugther of "mischief". A rather fitting connection- and the unseelie blood might explain why Corellon fell for her- it was her fey charms that attracted him. Possibly as an intentional attempt to seduce him to get in his favor. And the fact that she bore Vhaeraun and Eilistraee might have just been a side-effect of that union. Eilistraee being his favorite even over both her and her son might have simply driven Araushnee over the edge. But this would explain both eilistraee's more "fey" aspect (dancing, moonlight, etc) and Vhaeraun's darker side (malicious, secretive, etc.) It was their unseelie blood. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 01:23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Back to the topic of drow and unseelie- I just had a great idea to link them. We have already decided that Arashnee might have been the daughter of Tytania's unseelie sister. But what about her father? I was thinking it could be Erevan. That would make "chaos" the daugther of "mischief". A rather fitting connection- and the unseelie blood might explain why Corellon fell for her- it was her fey charms that attracted him. Possibly as an intentional attempt to seduce him to get in his favor. And the fact that she bore Vhaeraun and Eilistraee might have just been a side-effect of that union. Eilistraee being his favorite even over both her and her son might have simply driven Araushnee over the edge. But this would explain both eilistraee's more "fey" aspect (dancing, moonlight, etc) and Vhaeraun's darker side (malicious, secretive, etc.) It was their unseelie blood.
 I like that part about Eilistrae and Vhaerun! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 10:34:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
Fey beings...seelie/unseelie are mentioned in Monster Mythology...an early 2E supplement....lots of early & obscure realms lore in there
Right you are! that was the source I mentioned above, and lurue is mentioned amonf the "Farie" pantheon. As is Tytania, and Obereon. corellon, Lolth(Araushnee) and Grumsh are all in their own pantheons in it, as well. It's one of the best early sources for deific lore, IMO.
Point is that its - as I said - an obscure and very old source, that hardly goes into any great detail. Maybe there's a reason that the designers of the FR ever since left the seelie/unseelie connection out of the equation? Wouldn't people agree that if there actually was a link, the designers would have drawn on it in those ... 18 years post Monster Mythology? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gćđ a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerűn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 13 Oct 2010 10:35:40 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 10:40:32
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| Elaine's books have some connections, e.g. Evermeet, Counselors and Kings, lythari |
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Drow and the Unseelie Court
