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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
 Posted - 31 May 2004 : 11:33:48
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I don't understand, Sirius.
All the points i made are because of Lolth:
1) Spider infested cities of obsidian: No need to explain that one.
2) Rising up in the dark to slay innocents: Vhaeraun wants the drow to return to the surface, to stop slaying surface elves in the way drow do (those after-dark hunts). Eilistraee needs no explanation. Selvetarm has never expressed an interest in the surface, nor has Kiaransalee. Amd Ghaunadaur doesn't have interest, period.
3) Acts of trechery daily: Lolth is the Queen of Chaos, who pits her followers against one another. Vhaeraun hates the in-warring, wanting to focus instead on establishing themselves as a race. Eilistraee - again no explanation needed. Selvetarm's followers arn't subtle enough, Kiaransalee's church works differently as seen in CotSQ, and Ghaunadaur... who knows!
4) I think the biggest, and most obvious, loss: Driders.
I remember when I first started playing D&D, the monster manual entry for drow was what made me so interested in them. Mainly because of the awful thought of these spider-creatures their goddess turned them into. Without Lolth, the Driders would stop being made, would die out. Instant loss of one of the great things about drow. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Prince Indirian
Acolyte
Sweden
14 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 17:10:06
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The drow trust each other as much as they did during the siege of Mithral Hall, which is nothing so to say. It's is the way of drow to forge alliances as long as they further their casue, which in this case is survival. The drow are not stupid.
In my previous post I meant that they were just av evil as before Lloth went silent, exactly as Sirius explained. Had you read Sarelles previous point you would probably have understood what I meant from the beginning. By the way, Lloth loves chaos and destruction as long as she is the reason for it...
I read somewhere that some drow thought that Lloth went silent to punish them because they were becoming to "soft". Therefore they (those who belivied it) became even more evil than before, if that's possible
Also Vhaerunites seem hate/ really dislike all other races than elves and humans and would most likely raid the other races, but those mentioned. So they would probably slay innocent dwarves,halflings, gnomes and elf-hating humans, if given oppurtunity. Without lloth and with Vhaerun instead the drow would most likely emerge as the most powerful(evil) race/faction in Faeurun. Possibly allying with the Eldreth Veluthra or whatevet that elven supremecist group is called. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 18:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince Indirian
Possibly allying with the Eldreth Veluthra or whatevet that elven supremecist group is called.
Eldreth Veluuthra, although I knew exactly who you meant. Honestly, I don't see Vhaeraun forces and this group ever allying. Vhaeraun clearly seems to be open to half-elves to increase his followers numbers and we all know how the Eldreth folks feel about half-elves.
Thanks for sharing Prince Indirian. |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 18:57:43
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| What if Lloth died but nobody came to take her place and instead the other Underdark deites merley absorbed her power who would the drow worship most likely I definetly think vhaerun it seems his influence is growing dailey. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 19:46:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
What if Lloth died but nobody came to take her place and instead the other Underdark deites merley absorbed her power who would the drow worship most likely I definetly think vhaerun it seems his influence is growing dailey.
Vhaeraun or Shar, I think. Vhaeraun is already established in the drow pantheon, but Shar and her Shadow Weave would be most appealing to the drow. And she is trying to make in-roads with the drow... She's already got a toe-hold in the Underdark as it is. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 22:51:07
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| Wooly, I don't know if Vhaerun will become the dominant god of the drow pantheon. Yes, if Lolth does die, he will receive lots of power and followers. But what about the females, the priestesses of Lolth who are used to being the powerful ones? Will they submit to Vhaerun? It's more likely these drows will go and follow Kiaranlansee or even Eilistraee. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 23:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wooly, I don't know if Vhaerun will become the dominant god of the drow pantheon. <snip>
Hmm... let me see... who is Vhaerun's father again?  Wouldn't that be interesting if father and son would both be leaders of a pantheon?  They could go on fishing trips and talk politics... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 00:12:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Hmm... let me see... who is Vhaerun's father again? Wouldn't that be interesting if father and son would both be leaders of a pantheon? They could go on fishing trips and talk politics...
Exactly, the father/son dynamic would make things very interesting. Throw in Eilistraee and I see a great deal of fun could be had with such a change. |
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Arteris
Learned Scribe
121 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 01:12:26
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| The possibility of Drow turning to Shar isnt that remote, but then again, they probably would want to stay within the drow pantheon and it would make more sense that they go to Vhaeraun, Elistraee or Kiaransalee. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 01:33:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So am I the only one who thinks that many drow would turn to Shar?
No, you aren't-it does make a large amount of sense, especially with the dominant side of Shar shown in The Temptation of Elminster. I think the drow would splinter-for example, Sshamath's wizards may venerate Velsharoon, Mystra, or Savras. Those under Thay may turn to Kossuth. Just my 2cp. |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 12:21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So am I the only one who thinks that many drow would turn to Shar?
I believe that she would be the only sensible second to Lolth, if Lolth goes *touch wood*. Not only has Shar already begun to get a few drow followers, but she and Lolth share darkness portfolios. But then again, I think if Shar became the next Lolth *touches wood again  *, then she wouldn't put up with Vhaeraun and his portfolio of thieves/shadows and all that. So it'd be up to Eilistraee and Kiaransalee to fight the good fight. So I still stand by not losing my "Big 4". |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 01 Jun 2004 12:22:12 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 12:49:02
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Now reading all your aopinions i really agree with those ones who think that the drow Redemption is still possible. All the thinks you mentioned as canibalism or things like that are things inherent to the drow society but, not necessary to the drow being. I mean, situations as Drizzt o the onw known as Soulafein or Phaere if you remeber were cases of drow that challenged the society. As you can remember Soulafein and Phaere had a pure love history, till she was taken to the Lolt spiders. But, till i have knowledge, Soulafein joined to the cult of Eillistrei. Of course without forgetting the clear case of Drizzt and... Viconia.
I know the most part of my intervention is from Shadows of Amn, but i think that it reflects perfectly the situation.
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"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 16:30:57
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OK....I have a pretty different opinion from about everyone on this thread so far, and I wonder if I should even post. I don't want this to turn into a flame war or people just posting already stated ideas posted on other threads throughout the internet.
I view the drow through the lens of "metagame". I like drow to be really evil and rare villians who pop up every now and again to be despicable nasty and scare the bejesus out of my players. No more. I don't like having all the drow on the surface and I don't like the idea of good drow. I guess, it is just a matter of personal taste and flavor. I have read some of the drow books and don't really care for them. I'm not a huge drow fan and I believe that drow have just taken up too much FR attention.
I understand that there are many fans of drow out there and that the drow will never crawl back into the dark holes from which they game, but I still like to dream. I feel that "good" drow just feels wrong. I mean, they are suppose to be just evil, evil elves that are fun to kill. I just think it's silly to have good ones. It almost seems like an excuse to create good drow so that more players can insert them into their campaign. These are just my humble opinions. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 16:43:35
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Ok, what a .... hot explanation. Although the drows have been concieved as a typically evil characters, i suppoused they didn't want them to become fixed evil race. They wanted to show that a drow can be more that wild, cruel and stone-minded. I think they wanted to show how an "evil" race could generate really good heroes and good characters. I think, in mi opinion, that is refreshing having good drows, or at least drows trying to be good.
And about their popularity, I recognize that, although i really don't like the drows (any elven class either), they've got a great charm and are an appealfully race. They're society is complicated, but supported in a few laws. Be cruel, be strong".
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"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 17:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
OK....I have a pretty different opinion from about everyone on this thread so far, and I wonder if I should even post. I don't want this to turn into a flame war or people just posting already stated ideas posted on other threads throughout the internet.
I view the drow through the lens of "metagame". I like drow to be really evil and rare villians who pop up every now and again to be despicable nasty and scare the bejesus out of my players. No more. I don't like having all the drow on the surface and I don't like the idea of good drow. I guess, it is just a matter of personal taste and flavor. I have read some of the drow books and don't really care for them. I'm not a huge drow fan and I believe that drow have just taken up too much FR attention.
I understand that there are many fans of drow out there and that the drow will never crawl back into the dark holes from which they game, but I still like to dream. I feel that "good" drow just feels wrong. I mean, they are suppose to be just evil, evil elves that are fun to kill. I just think it's silly to have good ones. It almost seems like an excuse to create good drow so that more players can insert them into their campaign. These are just my humble opinions.
The odd thing is, I agree with you, Lashan, even though I play a good drow. Maybe that's hypocrisy... but I don't agree that ALL drow should be evil. I have definitive opinions that unless a monster/race is MADE to be evil all the time, there will be good individuals, sometimes even if they are 'always' evil.
On the other hand, I prefer drow to (almost) always be terrifying, evil, killers of the night. *sigh*. I can hardly complain that I don;t get my way if I ask for both ends of an arguement, now can I?  |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Prince Indirian
Acolyte
Sweden
14 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 17:42:06
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First I want to aplogize if I was rude or insulting in any way, I was studying to a physics test and things were going slowly,so I became a bit frustrated. I sincerely apologize if anybody was Insulted. But the test went surprisingly well. A possible A or A- for somebody who began studying two days before the test. We don't use that kiong of grading in Sweden, so I have basically translated it to the American grading system, in case anybody wondered (which you probably didn't)
Anyway back to topic...Sarelle I knew you agreed with lashan since you said that you were sick and tired of Good drow and good necromancers , on another board...I was truly perplexed when you said that you avidly protected good drow...but hey people can have a change of heart Good 1, evil 0
What I don't understand is why good drow prohibit drow from being terrifying. Good drow could be just as terrifying, because you never know what they might do. They won't gut you with a spoon, but still...
Half the charm with the drow is that they are somewhat unpredictable,as such they come in all flavors, be it good or evil. They go their way, nobody elses
Not to be rude or so, but if you know how to roleplay, even the nude dancing ones may be terrifying, even more so than their evil brethren ( don't let them catch you peeking). Good drow don't trust people that much, at least those born in the Llothite society... |
Edited by - Prince Indirian on 01 Jun 2004 18:36:45 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 17:56:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince Indirian
First I want to aplogize if I was rude or insulting in any way, I was studying to a physics test and things were going slowly,so I became a bit frustrated. I sincerely apologize if anybody was Insulted.
For what it's worth, I don't recall seeing anything you posted that could be insulting or rude.
quote:
Not to be rude or so, but if you know how to roleplay, even the nude dancing ones may be terrifying, even more so than their evil brethren ( don't let them catch you peeking). Good drow don't trust people that much, at least those born in the Llothite society...
You hit upon a big key. Good roleplaying can take any drow concept and make it interesting. Consequently, the same idea over and over, for example take a look at most D20 products for drow, can be very boring. |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 18:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince Indirian
First I want to aplogize if I was rude or insulting in any way, I was studying to a physics test and things were going slowly,so I became a bit frustrated. I sincerely apologize if anybody was Insulted. But the test went surprisingly well. A possible A or A- for somebody who began studying two days before the test. We don't use that kiong of grading in Sweden, so I have basically translated it to the American grading system, in case anybody wondered (which you probably didn't)
??? I don't recall you being rude either.
quote:
Anyway back to topic...Sarelle I knew you agreed with lashan since you said that you were sick and tired of Good drow and good necromancers , on another board...I was truly perplexed when you said that you avidly protected good drow...but hey people can have a change of heart Good 1, evil 0
?????????????????????? Now I'm very confused. I believe I've said before that I think good drow should be rare... but I don't think I've ever said I was sick of them, and I'm sure I've never even said anything about good necromancers. As far as I know, very few exist, and I have thought (but not written) in the past that a good necromancer would be an interesting character.
Seems we're both perplexed! 
quote:
What I don't understand is why good drow prohibit drow from being terrifying. Good drow could be just as terrifying, because you never know what they might. They won't gut you with a spoon, but still...
Half the charm with the drow is that they are somewhat unpredictable,as such they come in all flavors, be it good or evil. They go their way, nobody elses
I agree. Or at least that good drow should show bad social traits (i.e. arrogance, paranoia) as often as good, whatever their intentions. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 18:37:05
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I think that playing a good drow character, if played realistically, would never be able to enter a human city. This is all my view of FR and how I would DM a drow character (even good). That is if I ever raised my ban on drow characters...
The drow character would never be able to walk in a city. Even, if somehow, the drow character was able to convince the population not to kill it on sight (which I don't believe would ever happen), they would always be pegged a villian. This character would suffer spiderman syndrome of always looking likke a bad guy. Even if this guy saved the town from a fire-breathing dragon, it would come out that the drow somehow was in control of the dragon and that the drow somehow got it back under its control before it killed it. Still, that's all a mute point to me, as any sane person would not let a drow in their city walls. Drow are treacherous and vile folk who would go through any lengths to destroy humanity and enslave it. If a drow could gain access to a human city by pretending to be good, I am sure it would have been tried at this point.
Once again, this is all just my opinion of how I portray drow in my game and how I view what the average common person in FR would react to a drow. If there is a drow pc in the game, it precludes it from ever entering in a human city, which narrows down the campaign. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 19:18:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
I think that playing a good drow character, if played realistically, would never be able to enter a human city. This is all my view of FR and how I would DM a drow character (even good). That is if I ever raised my ban on drow characters...
The drow character would never be able to walk in a city. Even, if somehow, the drow character was able to convince the population not to kill it on sight (which I don't believe would ever happen), they would always be pegged a villian. This character would suffer spiderman syndrome of always looking likke a bad guy. Even if this guy saved the town from a fire-breathing dragon, it would come out that the drow somehow was in control of the dragon and that the drow somehow got it back under its control before it killed it. Still, that's all a mute point to me, as any sane person would not let a drow in their city walls. Drow are treacherous and vile folk who would go through any lengths to destroy humanity and enslave it. If a drow could gain access to a human city by pretending to be good, I am sure it would have been tried at this point.
Once again, this is all just my opinion of how I portray drow in my game and how I view what the average common person in FR would react to a drow. If there is a drow pc in the game, it precludes it from ever entering in a human city, which narrows down the campaign.
I agree with you, for the most part.
However, I do see circumstances by which a drow could enter a city. The obvious means is to be disguised -- and both of the iconic good drow in the Realms have entered human cities in disguise.
Another method is to not do so directly. Drow could come up from Skullport into Waterdeep, for example. And there's always the old standby of slipping over the wall at night.
And in a few cities, a drow could openly walk the streets -- like in Dambrath. A drow might or might not be able to openly enter Zhentil Keep.
But for a PC drow? That would be very difficult... I'd certainly make things very hard on him/her, like it was for both Liriel and Drizzt.
If I ever get to DM, I plan on using a drow as a major NPC. He'll start out as a recurring villian, and in that role, will put in at least one city appearance -- though he likely won't be seen as a drow by anyone other than the PCs (he'll only let down his disguise for them).
Later, he makes the mistake of donning a helm of opposite alignment. Now good and wishing to atone for his past, he winds up as an ally to the PCs -- though he's in disguise, and they don't know he's a drow. It won't be until the worst possible moment that they find out that this new guy they like and trust is their old nemesis. |
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Prince Indirian
Acolyte
Sweden
14 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 22:04:19
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Well Lashan I understand and respect your feelings, but I disagree. First of all what's playing "realisticly" ? Different people different games, yet still the same game. Basically 99% of faerun are farmers and the like...they wouldn't recognise a drow if showed one to them. And they would be to afraid to anything against it either way. But hey, isn't this a city were talking about? Yes it is but it still applies. The drow are legends, they occur in tales in taverns all around Faerun, but still there are those who doubt of their existance. Some legends speak of the good others about the evil drow...still they are mystery. Those who have fought the evil ones claim that they are evil, while those who have been saved by the good ones claim the opposite ( Quile Veladorn and her gang have saved alot of former slaves at the cost o their on lives). While the elves are silent, they know the truth yet are reluctant to speak about it.
So who is going to deal with drow then ? The city guards and various churches and organisations ( such as paladin orders). Most of these are good or neutral with some slight good tendendencis. Even though they may dislike the drow they won't risk killing something that may be good. Take the paladins for example, they belevie that there is something good within anybody (not counting demons, red dragons and other always evil creatures), even drow or at least that is what they want to belivie. And would a good drow be greatest victory for good. Such a drow would be the testimony of power of the forces of good. Would the loss of such a creature be the greatest loss. There are laws in most cities, in the cities that lack laws drow may mostertainly dwell there, since thats basically like home can be even though home may some laws. Even elven cities have laws and restrictions.
These laws have to followed otherwise what's the use of them ? Therefore killing somebody just like that might be harder than think since he/she must be guilty of something. Not including being a drow. As matter of fact, the church of Helm will protect anybody who is searching for friendly haven as long as he she is innocent of any crime ( these guys and gals are really vigilant, so I don't recommend trying ti screw them off). Even against a giant mob. There are several churches and organisations that would do the same, such Selunes, the harpers, the triad among many. Basically many good factions. But before that they will of course disarm you and and put you in a antimagic cell or similiar.
The question is rather if the drow should trust anybody on the surface, rather then the other way around. If you don't belvie that Helm thing then look it up in Fath and pantheons |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 22:39:44
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I think Drow are like any other race. For most of the time I have played the game there are certain races that are inherantly evil. The anti-hero craze has changed that. Of course there are whole cities teeming with evil Drow. Several authors have explored this by basically saying that it is their society that makes them evil. There are a few souls who escape the vile tendancies of their brethren, however. Take a Drow out of their society and they would have the same tendencies as other races.
Several of the Drow deities are now good. Back in the vault days the Drow worshipped Lloth(Lolth), and that was it. Heck, you could even visit her web back then. Good deities in game terms equals a shift towards the standard races in that there are good and evil members within the race. I would like to see this either become normal with all races, or see a good explanation of why there are so many Drow turning against their heritage. Drow were always THE evil race. Now, not so much. I can think of a good explanation of why this only seems to affect the Drow, and not, say, orcs, goblins, and such, but I want to know what the official word is on this. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2004 : 23:57:19
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Several of the Drow deities are now good.
Which drow deities do you have as good? I've got Eilistraee and that's it. What others are you referring to? |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 07:29:58
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IF Lolth walks off the plank...
Big if...
Then I wouldn't be surprised if our dear Lady of Loss would pose as Lolth to gain her former power, as she did with Ibrandul. Vhaeraun certainly wouldn't have the strength to put up a fight if Shar really tried.
Now that'd be a major shift in power indeed...
@Indirian:
In my Realms, the Drow are the mythical evil that lurks beneath the earth and that will eat you if you dont eat your soup :P To children at least. Many surfacers KNOW they exist, however... Just think of Calimport. It has been assaulted by Drow over and over. Or the Mithral Hall assault in the north... No, they aren't that unknown anymore. Not to mention the tales of Drizzt (May the Lady of Loss curse his soul!) |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 12:23:06
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Several of the Drow deities are now good. Back in the vault days the Drow worshipped Lloth(Lolth), and that was it. Heck, you could even visit her web back then.
Ed Greenwood invented Vhaeraun and Eilistraee back when he first created the FR pantheons. They've always been around - in FR. If we're talking the original D&D, I can't comment - but then that has nothing to do with drow in/under Faerūn.
quote:
Drow were always THE evil race. Now, not so much. I can think of a good explanation of why this only seems to affect the Drow, and not, say, orcs, goblins, and such, but I want to know what the official word is on this.
Really? For me it was orcs. Drow are elves, so they were always going to be seen as having the workings of a similar-to-human mind. Orcs were made to be evil - a corruption of the 'good' races.
But, more to the point, I think if we want FR to have some realism, then we have to recognise that evil, unless magically in-built, is not inherant. You don't get evil babies. Human definition of 'evil' usually results from environmental effects. And I don't think that drow have ever been interfered with magically to make them evil, in FR. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 15:06:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
But, more to the point, I think if we want FR to have some realism, then we have to recognise that evil, unless magically in-built, is not inherant. You don't get evil babies. Human definition of 'evil' usually results from environmental effects. And I don't think that drow have ever been interfered with magically to make them evil, in FR.
I couldn't agree more. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 16:15:22
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quote:
Really? For me it was orcs. Drow are elves, so they were always going to be seen as having the workings of a similar-to-human mind. Orcs were made to be evil - a corruption of the 'good' races.
I always thought of Drow and orcs the other way around. Drow intentionally turned to the evil god(s) they worship and created a society around them. Orcs are just dumb. Dumb=evil for some reason. We have half-orcs in the game, which is sometimes explained away by raids by orcs on human settlements. Why are the orcs inherantly evil? Who corrupted them? I see what you are saying. That they are the flip side of the coin to the 'good' races. But, you say 'good' instead of good. We all know that every major race is made up of good and evil. So what are the orcs a corruption of?
From what I remember of the original FR's material there were other Drow deities, but they were not fleshed out. Now the Faiths and Pantheons book lists several. And yeah, I was talking about my pre-Realms days with the old vault. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 16:20:36
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I can be in a mistake, but i heard, don't ask me where cause i can't remember, that orcs were a corruption of elves. Torturated and desfigurated. But i don't know if this mean magically "dumbed".  |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2004 : 17:08:39
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
I always thought of Drow and orcs the other way around. Drow intentionally turned to the evil god(s) they worship and created a society around them. Orcs are just dumb. Dumb=evil for some reason. We have half-orcs in the game, which is sometimes explained away by raids by orcs on human settlements. Why are the orcs inherantly evil? Who corrupted them? I see what you are saying. That they are the flip side of the coin to the 'good' races. But, you say 'good' instead of good. We all know that every major race is made up of good and evil. So what are the orcs a corruption of?
From what I remember of the original FR's material there were other Drow deities, but they were not fleshed out. Now the Faiths and Pantheons book lists several. And yeah, I was talking about my pre-Realms days with the old vault.
IMC, orcs are a corruption of elves, goblins a corruption of dwarves, and men corrupt themselves. Those are the rules I've always followed in classic fantasy settings (particularly D&D).
Drow, even though they have many differences, are elves.
My rules are of course inspired by the creator of orcs (and of what we think of as elves and dwarves), J.R.R. Tolkien and his writings in The Hobbit, The Lords of the Rings and, most of all, The Silmarillion.
I am aware that Tolkien's Middle-earth has no direct relation to FR, but as default I follow his basic set-up, unless I am told otherwise by FR. The origins of orcs in FR have never been fleshed out, other than Gruumsh vs. Corellon, so I stick with that. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 02 Jun 2004 17:10:58 |
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Drow Redemption
