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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2004 : 22:19:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ignorance Personified
6) Jeggred gets killed/destroyed by anyone/anything.
Oh yes. I've grown bored of that character a few books past. |
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Llmryn Xorlarrin
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2004 : 22:50:57
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I suppose Jeggred was never meant to be an interesting character. He doesn't exactly have a complex, multi-layered personality. Still, I suppose Matron Triel may have a bit of a fit if they return without Jeggred.
And as for Lolth defeating all her enemies, yes, yes, glory to the Spider Queen. If I were actually a drow, though, I'd be much more inclined to worship Oghma and give myself to the cause of knowledge. If I lived in Menzoberranzan, it would have to be in secret, otherwise next thing you know, those priestesses are probably going to be flaying me alive and sacrificing me to Lolth for my "insolence" and "sacrilege". |
Edited by - Llmryn Xorlarrin on 18 Jul 2004 23:02:36 |
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Gotrex
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2004 : 23:35:54
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I have quite a lot critisims of this book
start with the fairly insignificant one
the halflings, just because they are small and cute does not make them stupid, they would not be so trusting of a drow infact they might even be able to sense he is evil since they are on a good plane
didnt like ryld dieing, he was my favorite character (though that aint to hard since i despise most of the characters in this book - im a drow hater :))
i thought he was a bit uncharactisticly stupid in that he should of tried to get the humans to help him rather than fighting them
it was probably his arogance that did it thats what makes all drow stupid
There is quite the consistency problem in how souls are dealt with
those drow should be waiting on the fugue plane not the astral
and why the hell are there duergar in the abyss? i cant remember what plane laduguar and deep durra live on but im pretty sure it aint the abyss because they are both LE and the abyss is a plane of utter chaos
im wondering what ring gromph has to heal all of the damage a level 20+ char(dyrr) and a high teens char(nimor) can do it must be at the least a minor artifact and probably a major artifact since iv never heard of a normal magic ring that can heal that much damage
also while i thought the massive duel between gromph and dyrr was the best part of the book i was rather confused at the end. Why didnt gromph die? and how come they acted as if it were over? they realise dyrr is a lich right and will re apear again and again untill gromph is dead
my worry about the series at the moment is to me it seems its heading in a "everything goes back to how it was before" direction which would be hugely disapointing. to have 6 books and then have everything go back to normal
despite this mini rant i did enjoy the book
i just thought there were some rather glaring problems
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 00:56:58
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quote:
Originally Posted by Gotrex
my worry about the series at the moment is to me it seems its heading in a "everything goes back to how it was before" direction which would be hugely disapointing. to have 6 books and then have everything go back to normal
Well, everything has to shift back to some since of normality, after all The Time of Troubles ended and not all that much changed after the whole 5 book set (couple of new gods but Kel could not alter the way souls were treated for example). Ched N.'s "alteration" will definately change and Lloth's return has altered the structure of the planes (or something like that?). Although, I would like to see a shift in the Menzo heirarchy--perhaps Danifae will have a role to play.
Yes Ryld was also my favorite character, and like Sirius I despise Jeggred (ie boring due to his lack of depth and is just there for the slasher horror effect), hopefully he will run into a certain dog loving former Zhent and get meet his end(Mr. Kemp is writing the last novel it is not impossible). |
Carthago delenda est. |
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Gotrex
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 01:04:51
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danifae wont have a part in anything
quenthal will have her tortured to death as soon as they are back in menzo for her taking jeggred
and the ToT had some very major changes
so far that hasnt occured in this series |
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Ordin_Solandar
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 03:32:02
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I dunno if we will see Dyr again as and adversary of Gromph. It is my belief that if Dyr indeed finds a new body to inhabit he may pick up and leave menzo. After all his house was turffed and the ruling Matriarch of the city wants him dead.
The one thing I truly enjoyed about book five was Gromphs contiued character development. He is more like Lieriel then he wants to admit and is powerfull enough to give Vanglardahast a run for his money. In regards to the ring of healing, RAS makes reference to something like it in his canticle series. Vandar the Furbolg possess a ring of regeneration that can bring him back from the dead. Gromphs is just a more powerful version, although it probably should be considered a lesser artifact.
I still wonder where Janifein the Spider mage is hideing he has wanted to destron they Matriarchs for the better part of 1000 years and has the power to do it. Technically (level wise) Janifein the spider mage is the most powerfull mage in menzo and a member of sorcere... Go figure! |
Its easy not to care what people think, it harder to try! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 04:17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Gotrex
also while i thought the massive duel between gromph and dyrr was the best part of the book i was rather confused at the end. Why didnt gromph die? and how come they acted as if it were over? they realise dyrr is a lich right and will re apear again and again untill gromph is dead
I no longer have the book to reference. However, isn't there a part near the end, where Gromph thinks this thought, that the battle isn't over yet because his opponent was a lich?
quote:
my worry about the series at the moment is to me it seems its heading in a "everything goes back to how it was before" direction which would be hugely disapointing. to have 6 books and then have everything go back to normal
No, by the end, it's clear to me that some change to the Spider Queen will take place. Whether this is a significant change as far as dogma/goals remains to be seen. |
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Proc
Acolyte
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 02:34:58
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I no longer have the book to reference. However, isn't there a part near the end, where Gromph thinks this thought, that the battle isn't over yet because his opponent was a lich?
I believe it was Nazhour (spelling?) who congratulates Gromph on his victory, leaving Gromph to reply that he may have destroyed Dyrr's body, but the battle is far from over. (Or at least something like that.)
I was quite happy with Annihilation. I think the series is very good as a whole. And while I don't really like Hallistra and her story line, I don't want to see the followers of Eilistraee be destroyed or wiped out. I thought that Ryld had deserved better than to die at the hands of the Draegloth, and that Danifae will be Lolth's vessel. Whether that means she becomes a chosen, a proxie or something else entirely I have no idea. My favourite character remains Valas (followed closely by Phauran), and I hope that he gains a satisfactory ending - though he's kind of been left on the sidelines. I loved the fact that Valas always seemed to have another card to play, another trick/trinket to get him out of trouble. |
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin |
Edited by - Proc on 21 Jul 2004 02:36:03 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 04:29:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Proc
I believe it was Nazhour (spelling?) who congratulates Gromph on his victory, leaving Gromph to reply that he may have destroyed Dyrr's body, but the battle is far from over. (Or at least something like that.)
Yep, that sounds exactly like the scene I was recalling. So, stay tuned as it isn't over just yet...
quote:
I don't want to see the followers of Eilistraee be destroyed or wiped out.
That won't happen. Too much story potential between the Goddess and her followers.
quote:
Danifae will be Lolth's vessel. Whether that means she becomes a chosen, a proxie or something else entirely I have no idea.
Spokesperson. Every hip god needs a good person to speak out to the lesser beings.
quote:
My favourite character remains Valas (followed closely by Phauran), and I hope that he gains a satisfactory ending - though he's kind of been left on the sidelines. I loved the fact that Valas always seemed to have another card to play, another trick/trinket to get him out of trouble.
I think it's time for Valas to bid the rest of the party a goodbye. |
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Gotrex
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 12:06:03
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what i wanna know is who quenthal will side with
i think its quite obvious that phaeraun is gonna fight danifae and jeggred at some point(i think he should of taken his chance to destroy them when he cast wail of the banshee)
im wondering if quenthal will help either side or just sit by and watch
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 14:37:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Gotrex
what i wanna know is who quenthal will side with
I just get this feeling she's not going to make it.
quote:
i think its quite obvious that phaeraun is gonna fight danifae and jeggred at some point(i think he should of taken his chance to destroy them when he cast wail of the banshee)
If that event takes place, it won't be in their current environment. Phaeraun is too wise and will choose a location that favors him. I see no way in which the current environment accomplishes this. |
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Gotrex
Acolyte
10 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 22:39:24
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| the fight may be initiated by danifae (or more likely jeggred) in which case he wont have a choice |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 22:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Gotrex
the fight may be initiated by danifae (or more likely jeggred) in which case he wont have a choice
Ah, thanks for that clarification. Or even more so, he might be forced to choose a side if others in the party start a melee with each other. If that occurs, Phaeraun will help whoever will benefit him the most to aid.
Gotta love his pure selfish nature.  |
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R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 16:13:37
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I was mostly dissapointed with Ryld's death. It seemed so pointless and didn't move the plot along at all. It seems like an intellegent fighter like Ryld would take down a stupid brute like Jeggred, 99 times out of 100. He was also one of my favorite characters (Valas is actually probably my favorite.)
Anyway, other than that there were a lot of good things. The characters have really evolved since Book 1. I was really worried this book would suck, because of the Baldur's Gate books, but it was fairly good, with my main criticism noted above. |
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE.  |
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Panador
Acolyte
Austria
28 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2004 : 06:21:01
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Oh my god! Why did I look in this thread, dammit?! Ryld dies? Damn, I just started Annihilation so I didn't know about this, damn! 
Ok, now my question:
Does anyone know at what time WotSQ actually takes place? I can't remember any date being mentioned, the only hint about the time I found in Annihilation was "... under the ruins of the human town Tilverton..." which means the WotSQ novels are set AFTER the return of Shade enclave and thus the Return of the Archwizards series, but that's a bit vague.
Any more detailed information?
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*Still thinking about a signature...* |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2004 : 09:42:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Panador
Ok, now my question:
Does anyone know at what time WotSQ actually takes place? I can't remember any date being mentioned, the only hint about the time I found in Annihilation was "... under the ruins of the human town Tilverton..." which means the WotSQ novels are set AFTER the return of Shade enclave and thus the Return of the Archwizards series, but that's a bit vague.
Any more detailed information?
The Player's Guide has a timeline for some of the novels so far. Lloth goes silent on 28, Eleasias 1372. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2004 : 13:54:59
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
The Player's Guide has a timeline for some of the novels so far. Lloth goes silent on 28, Eleasias 1372.
Just to add a footnote for Panador, the Player's Guide only covers the events up to the end of Condemnation. The last entry in the timeline is for 16 Ukta which lists the WOTSQ party reaching the Demonweb Pits and witnessing Vhaeraun and Selvetarm go at it. Thus, it appears most, if not all the events will be contained within 1372. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2004 : 15:35:21
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I noticed the following on the WOTC page today:
quote:
Annihilation Hits the New York Times Best Seller List
Annihilation by Philip Athans, Book 5 of R.A. Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen series, debuted at #26 on the New York Times Best Seller List and climbed to #22 in its second week. This marks Athans first appearance on the list. It is the highest on that list that any book in the series has reached. The novel follows the continuing struggle of the drow to survive against the onslaught of their countless enemies. As the city of Menzoberranzan perches on the brink of destruction, a small band of heroes braves the perils of the Demonweb Pits in search of the goddess Lolth, whom they hope will save drow civilization.
Congrats to Philip Athans and to everyone involved in the WOTSQ series. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 07 Aug 2004 15:35:55 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2004 : 17:30:57
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Vendui!
Regarding the topic, I do hope that Paul Kemp keeps up the standards he set with the Erevis Cale series. Just finished Dawn of Night and this one is another treat.
As for Book VI, I just hope they don't go overboard with this Halisstra stuff. Whatever this sword is able to do, a mortal shouldn't get anywhere near a deity, be that a lesser chap like Mask or an intermediate lass like Lolth. But as Quenthel has already tasted quasi-immortality by being a yochlol, maybe she "does a Midnight" if Hallistra does the unthinkable. It would be a massive let-down to the whole story though, since so far (despite me don't liking that Ched Nasad massacre) they kept it all within reasonable limits and none of the characters went overboard regarding their background and (interestingly) stats.
I do hope that Danifae survives this all and maybe she becomes a member of the Bregan D'aerthe ... as she is some sort of a renegade as well. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 07 Aug 2004 17:32:41 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2004 : 22:10:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
I do hope that Danifae survives this all and maybe she becomes a member of the Bregan D'aerthe ... as she is some sort of a renegade as well.
She's becoming way too powerful to simply be content with that fate. |
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Panador
Acolyte
Austria
28 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2004 : 18:02:38
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Just finished Annihilation: Great book, although the characters seem a bit strange at times compared to the previous books.
Finally the discussion about the Demonweb Pits and wether it's a plane of its own or a part of the abyss ought to be over, Lolth is back.
Concerning the... Chosen One: Does this mean Quenthel will become a Chosen of Lolth, like El for Mystra, or will she be the new body/avatar of Lolth?
I really hope Pharaun will receive some kind of reward other than the "pleasure of serving Lolth" for his efforts. He had many possibilies to kill the annoying Quenthel and he stood loyal to Lolth and never strayed from the path dictated by... whom, dammit, Quenthel, Lolth, don't know who. |
*Still thinking about a signature...* |
Edited by - Panador on 11 Aug 2004 18:05:43 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2004 : 23:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Panador
Concerning the... Chosen One: Does this mean Quenthel will become a Chosen of Lolth, like El for Mystra, or will she be the new body/avatar of Lolth?
If that happens, why do you see Quenthel getting the honor over Danifae? |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2004 : 14:38:13
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
No, by the end, it's clear to me that some change to the Spider Queen will take place. Whether this is a significant change as far as dogma/goals remains to be seen.
Ya, I'm thinking alignment change. Cause the Lawful matriachacal(sp) society of a race that's suppose to follow the orders of a Chaotic diety never really made sense.
I also liked how Quenthel never mentions how she dies to the rest of the party. |
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Bergan
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2004 : 14:42:20
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Well, I've just finished Annihilation, and I'd like to thank Phil Athans for the best FR read since City of Ravens. Best of the series for me.
I'm not the Realms buff some are here, so any continuity technicalities was lost on me. The lack of reference to Ryld's werewolf issue was strange though.
One thing that really stood out was the physical settings PA depicted: the Flooded Forest, Sschindylryn and the drake's portal temple, the Demonweb Pits and the Astral Plane. All of these were brought wonderfully alive and populated. I liked the way he gave the humans in the logging camp personalities before slaughtering them - my heart went out to Raula when her husband bit the dust!
Pharaun comments brought a few guffaws too!
I'm going to go wild with my prediction for Book 6 and say that Hallistra buggers up Lolth's plans somehow - with Quenthel and Danifae maybe killed before the goddess can channel her essence into them. Not being able to use Hallistra's body because of her own diety's protection, she places her spirit in what is left available: Pharaun!
Now THAT might cause a bit of a shake up in the Drow world! :) |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2004 : 22:34:35
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I just read through the spell duel between Dyrr and Gromph, and I was sorely disappointed. It was, hands down, one of the worst spell duels I've ever experienced. I've included some quotes from the text to make my points:
quote:
"The most effective weapon against the undead wizard from the traitor House will be fire."
What? What kind of advice is that? Fire has no special effect on liches.  Fire? Are you kidding me? Against Dyrr, no fire spell should cause him the slightest harm.
quote:
"He will radiate an aura of fear, but you probably won't be affected by that."
I can't stand it when novel authors practically quote the rule books. It's as if Gromph's wizards are saying, "Don't worry about his fear aura. You obviously have enough hit dice to avoid that."
quote:
"There are a number of spell effects that will be of no concern to the lich... These include cold, lightning, poison, paralysis, disease, necromancy, polymorph, and spells that affect or influence the mind."
AAHHHHH!!  This is almost a direct, word-for-word quote right out of the Monster Manual. What's the target audience for these novels? Can anyone refresh my memory? Does anyone else find this direct quoting of the rulebooks amazingly annoying?
And the spells they were trading were so elementary. Globe of invulnerability? Fireball??? Why in all the world would Gromph ever think to cast fireball at an epic level lich?? He must be an idiot. It would take half a dozen fireballs to even singe Dyrr, not to mention the obvious fact that a simple protection from energy (or energy immunity) spell would render him immune to fire damage. I was amazed. And what was Gromph planning on doing, anyway? Was he hoping to destroy Dyrr's body? Fine, but what about his phylactery? A smart DM, or a smart writer, would have Dyrr's phylactery, along with a number of suitable corpses and spell scrolls, sealed in a pocket dimension, or within an aired space deep in the Lower Dark where no one would ever find it unless a herd of xorns scoured every inch of Toril's crust, something that would never be possible. Knowing the way these books have gone, Dyrr probably wears his phylactery around his neck, or on a ring, or some other rediculously impractical place that makes the author's job a piece of cake. Gromph should be smart enough to know that he can't stop Dyrr.
No special signature spells created by Gromph or Dyrr, just your run-of-the-mill Players Handbook spells. I was expecting world-shattering spells. I got meteor swarm, but even that spell is worthless in a spell duel dealing with two well-prepared spellcasters. Not even a time stop. Very poorly done. Where's Greenwood when we need him?
I ask all FR readers to read Elminster: Making of a Mage, or Elminster in Myth Drannor, or Silverfall (specifically the section dealing with The Simbul) to see true spellcasting in action. I swear, some of these books are so predictable. Annihilation is no different. I suppose I have to deal with it if I want to know what's going on with Lolth. What a shame. 
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 14 Aug 2004 13:55:29 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2004 : 06:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I suppose I have to deal with it if I want to know what's going on with Lolth. What a shame.
If you've read the rest of this thread, you know you are not alone in your disappointment regarding this novel. |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2004 : 06:48:59
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| Crust, I have to agree with you. There are so many impressive and original spell duels in FR, but that was not one of them. I found myself thinking things like "Well, maybe he cast that to test his....wait, no, he was serious," and praying desperately that Gromph had some hidden, secret counter-lich spell ready, and that the first-day apprentice castings were a ruse to lure Dyrr into a false sense of security. Some aspects of it were interesting, such as the detour to Flying-Halfling Land and Nimor's inclusion, but Gromph just appeared too surprised by Dyrr's tricks and not prepared enough to counter much of anything. He's the Archmage, for Mystra's sake! Give him a few useful scrolls, or a dozen battle wands, for that matter! Even a few potions of healing could have aided him, the way that that duel was going. If one plans on battling a lich of Dyrr's caliber, either first locate the phylactery or-if you must-use some sort of stasis spell to keep him from returning to the phylactery or using any contingency and/or metemagic spells. I mean, really, Gromph almost defeated by a crushing despair? What is that? |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Panador
Acolyte
Austria
28 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2004 : 16:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
I also liked how Quenthel never mentions how she dies to the rest of the party.
Just to confirm my memory - it was Drizzt, right? After his torture during... eh, the Legacy of the Drow novels?
quote:
Originally posted by Bergan
I'm going to go wild with my prediction for Book 6 and say that Hallistra buggers up Lolth's plans somehow - with Quenthel and Danifae maybe killed before the goddess can channel her essence into them. Not being able to use Hallistra's body because of her own diety's protection, she places her spirit in what is left available: Pharaun!
Now THAT might cause a bit of a shake up in the Drow world! :)
Hehe, yeah, that would be very cool - and quite a change in drow society. :D
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*Still thinking about a signature...* |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2004 : 16:35:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Panador
Just to confirm my memory - it was Drizzt, right? After his torture during... eh, the Legacy of the Drow novels?
No idea on the exact novel, but yes, it was Drizzt who killed her. I recall the threads upon her appearing in this novel series that kept saying..."But Drizzt killed her."
Death doesn't seem to be a certainty as long as Drizzt is involved somehow. |
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Saime
Acolyte
Denmark
21 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2004 : 18:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Panador
quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
I also liked how Quenthel never mentions how she dies to the rest of the party.
Just to confirm my memory - it was Drizzt, right? After his torture during... eh, the Legacy of the Drow novels?
Yes, Drizzt killed Quenthel in Siege of Darkness (Legacy of the Drow book 3):
"As they departed, Jarlaxle heard Quenthel's dying scream, a cry of "Sacrilege!" She was yelling out a denial, of course, in Drizzt Do'Urden's—her killer's—face, but Jarlaxle realized she could just as easily, and just as accurately, have been referring to him."
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Topic |
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Annihilation (WOTSQ Book 5) Spoilers
