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Originally posted by Ayrik

I don't consciously "boycott" WotC.

I just don't buy anything they sell. Because they don't sell anything I find interesting or entertaining enough to be worth the cover price. They used to, years ago, decades ago - but now they don't.

I'm a little saddened that people need motivation towards "boycotting" companies, brands, and products. Because, to me, it seems obvious that people should be intelligent, aware, and observant of what they're buying. If you bought a bad product, something which failed to serve its purpose - especially if you did this more than once, often enough to determine that the vendor or brand or product has consistently ripped you off or disappointed you - then why would you keep buying more of the same? People might be vendor-locked into some product lines which serve them poorly, but (contrary to opinions at Wizbro) D&D has no such monopoly on the tabletop gaming market. Don't waste your time and money on games which you already expect will suck when you can spend on countless other games next to it.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

You know, the thought just occurred to me that the reason they are going with "we own it all" is that they never took the time to actually catalog what is out there and since they don't require research of previous lore for new products, they don't necessarily know even what they have put out. So, if they decide to do movies or TV series and what they have in a show is close to or the same as what someone else has already written, they can just say that we already own it and you can't sue us for using that. It is also why they put in that they don't have to even recognize the person that wrote it in the first place.

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

There are posts going around, supposedly from a WoTC employee.

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

There are posts going around, supposedly from a WoTC employee.

He has pointed out that the management are taking notice of the drop in Beyond subscriptions. So the best way to make yourself heard by WoTC is to cancel your subscription and delete any free accounts.

He also points out that the first thing the rank and file employees knew about the new OGL was early this year.

He also points out that management at WoTC never refer to their customers in a positive manner, and the general feeling is that customers are an obstacle to WoTC getting their money (i suspect their is used to refer to WoTC).


It could be a lie, but to be honest, this is my experience of most companies.

Everyone get cancelling subscriptions and not watching new movies as well as not buying books and minis, etc.

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• You can't delete a free account.
• I don't doubt they don't refer to most gamers in a positive manner when the most vocal gamers are always calling them evil.
• I'm still going to see the movie.

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

• I don't doubt they don't refer to most gamers in a positive manner when the most vocal gamers are always calling them evil.

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I think by many definition, including their own game alignment system, greed is in fact evil.

Not that i'm even slightly religious, but you only have to look at the state of the world today to see how evil greed can become.

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For the last several weeks, as rumors of Wizards of the Coast’s new version of the Open Game License began circulating among publishers and on social media, gamers across the world have been asking what Paizo plans to do in light of concerns regarding Wizards of the Coast’s rumored plan to de-authorize the existing OGL 1.0(a). We have been awaiting further information, hoping that Wizards would realize that, for more than 20 years, the OGL has been a mutually beneficial license which should not–and cannot–be revoked. While we continue to await an answer from Wizards, we strongly feel that Paizo can no longer delay making our own feelings about the importance of Open Gaming a part of the public discussion.

We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.

We were there.

Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place.

Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.

We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License.

As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions.

We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC).

The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.

In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.

The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation).

Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.

We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.

We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word.

Forever.

–Paizo Inc

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

And due to the excited people reading the article (and possibly taking advantage of the 25% the Core RPG), the link will not work right now as they are getting WAY too much traffic from the announcement.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

People crashed the DnDBeyond page from the number of people cancelling subscriptions:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/dungeons-and-dragons-players-cancel-d-d-beyond-subscriptions-en-masse-after-insider-leak-crash-servers/ar-AA16hLjP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=269abda9886d457eae1b9b87ea590380

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

People crashed the DnDBeyond page from the number of people cancelling subscriptions:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/dungeons-and-dragons-players-cancel-d-d-beyond-subscriptions-en-masse-after-insider-leak-crash-servers/ar-AA16hLjP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=269abda9886d457eae1b9b87ea590380

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And now Paizo, the one TTRPG company that has managed to outsell D&D (if only for a short time), is joining the move away from the OGL.

Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

quote:

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For the last several weeks, as rumors of Wizards of the Coast’s new version of the Open Game License began circulating among publishers and on social media, gamers across the world have been asking what Paizo plans to do in light of concerns regarding Wizards of the Coast’s rumored plan to de-authorize the existing OGL 1.0(a). We have been awaiting further information, hoping that Wizards would realize that, for more than 20 years, the OGL has been a mutually beneficial license which should not–and cannot–be revoked. While we continue to await an answer from Wizards, we strongly feel that Paizo can no longer delay making our own feelings about the importance of Open Gaming a part of the public discussion.

We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.

We were there.

Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place.

Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.

We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License.

As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions.

We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC).

The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.

In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.

The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation).

Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.

We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.

We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word.

Forever.

–Paizo Inc

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I hope that perhaps we can get DnD away from WoTC and Hasbro and maybe see a Forgotten Realms renaissance in the future.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Paizo is creating its own open gaming license?

It's only a matter of time before somebody else does yet another open gaming license. Then another. Modified and appended and iterated with each new release. A proliferation of licenses.

This is exactly what happened with software licenses in past decades. The end result was actually better software intercompatibility, better software support across platforms, better software available for end-users. The dinosaurs in the industry still cling onto their proprietary systems (WinOS, iOS, etc) but even though they make the systems most people use, they no longer make the software and apps anyone actually uses.

Let's see where this goes. Although Wizbro certainly has access to a lot more resources than Paizo if they want to stamp this evolution out with legal attritions.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And I don't see how WotC could possibly try legal maneuvers to stop this. It's going to be a competing system, and non-D&D competing game systems have existed for almost as long as D&D has.

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Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.

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