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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Nov 2016 : 22:22:08
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Just looking for more ideas or tactics on how to defeat a naval fleet.
So just a little background to the game, I am one of three pirate lords in the pirate islands. We have join a large powerful (evil) organisation that has been at war with cormyr. So as I been a thorn in the side to cormyr with raiding towns and ships. I have a fleet of about 50 ships and command a large town on one of the bigger islands.
• So I have learned that cormyr is getting a large fleet together to wipe me out.
• So I will be out manned and out gunned but I am defending and it is in my back yard.
• So I have a couple of ideas as assassin couple of captions of the cormyr fleet.
• Fire boats and oil on the water.
• Intercept orders.
• Raid towns which are no protection now as ships have leave. (Use hostages as leverage)
So I am looking for magical or nonmagical tactics to defeating the enemy fleet
Or anything else I haven’t thought of
Cheers
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2016 : 23:16:39
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Well mines and chains can be some items that might be employed.
A pet (or controlled) Whale or other sea creature certainly could sink a few ships. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 00:59:15
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I too am very interested in answers to this question.
The first time my players were sailing and encountered a rival longship they blasted it with fireballs as it approached. They focused fire (ahem) on a section of the boat, so I ruled they only needed to do 150 damage rather than the 300 hp of the 5e longship, which was achieved within 4 fireballs, blasting a hole in it's hull before it could even get to within boarding range (longship moving at 60'/turn, fireball range 150', 2 fireball-casters in the party). The party sank a longship worth 10,000 gp with 100 people on it within 2 rounds. It still feels like a mistake to me, but I'm unsure of where I went wrong.
Edit:
To answer your question, 2-5 spellcasters capable of casting fireball (Lv5+) should be able to take a longship down within 12 seconds. It should take an average of 11 fireballs to deal 300 points of damage, so a crack team of 11 wizards could destroy a longship within a single round. Of course, this would rely on you having powerful friends, or a lot of money to pay these wizards. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
Edited by - KanzenAU on 07 Nov 2016 01:13:16 |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 01:30:35
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| i am playing 3.5, so rules would be different |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 04:42:56
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| magic. massive usages of weather magic.... and water magics... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 11:29:00
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| my worry is with war wizards involved, there will be countering and dispelling. i am wondering how to made mines in D&D? |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 12:18:04
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| See if you can get the support of a Kraken or Dragonturtle? |
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eeorey
Seeker
Bulgaria
96 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 12:31:58
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| Sabotage, have someone undermine the enemy war efforts. Drilling holes in the ships hulls, slashing their sails, hiding dangerous animals on board during the night, etc. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 13:38:19
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Magic - Control weather, summon creature, control water, illusions, (all offensive spells)
Mundane - shallows, oil, night raid before they attack, pact with sea creatures, leading them to wrong island, help of other pirates, leaving the town and claiming other on islands (disapear) |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 15:20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by blade020877
my worry is with war wizards involved, there will be countering and dispelling. i am wondering how to made mines in D&D?
Equip your fleet with Greek Fire. They are non-magical and cannot be dispelled. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1299 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 15:23:32
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| I always ask the Earth Mother to send the Leviathan. |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 16:17:15
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| You could try to do what they did in the movie "Blazing Saddles". Build a fake-duplicate of your town for them to attack filled with traps. Try and force them into a battle on the island rather than at sea. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2016 : 23:43:36
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Not sure what version of the game you're doing, but back during second edition I loved snilloc's snowball swarm simply because its area effect was 50% bigger in radius than a fireball, but still did enough damage to take out sailors. That changed in later editions.
The point here is that you don't have to destroy the ship if you can destroy the crew with area effects. If you can widen a burst effect or lengthen a cone to cover an entire ship, it can be devastating (particularly to ships without multiple decks, such as longships).
There were also various cloud effects like solid fog or clouds that are poisonous or flammable that were pretty devastating when placed on a moving ship. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2016 : 14:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I always ask the Earth Mother to send the Leviathan.
LOL you won the thread. nice! Has she ever sent it for you? |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2016 : 14:03:41
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Wizards with fly, protection from arrows and fireball should be sufficient.
Or, dimension door with ship boarders that have alchemists fire.
A spell to break the hull at the water line.... |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2016 : 07:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Wizards with fly, protection from arrows and fireball should be sufficient.
Or, dimension door with ship boarders that have alchemists fire.
There are also War Wizards. Probably more of them.
quote:
A spell to break the hull at the water line....
Shatterhull? It's cool, but that's Zakharan, not Serosian.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2016 : 14:05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Wizards with fly, protection from arrows and fireball should be sufficient.
Or, dimension door with ship boarders that have alchemists fire.
A spell to break the hull at the water line....
Wow, this was an old tactic of mine too (not the fireball, but snilloc's snowball swarm OR a spell like cone of cold), and I usually included stoneskin, shield, and improved invisibility. There was an old 2nd edition spell like dim door (something with jump in the name) that sent you somewhere you're looking for 2 rounds and then jumped you right back. I'd get prepped with protections and then jump around the ocean hitting the PC's ships with spells and then moving somewhere else. Since I was improved invisible, your standard sailors couldn't spot me, so unless the mage happened to spot me, I usually got off the first assault as a surprise attack. The second round usually decimated the ship enough that they had to start repairs, and then I was off to another ship. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2016 : 15:21:20
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Plenty good replies, my 2 cents is find some good spies, a few sympathizers and make good use of divination magic or psionics.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Howlsofhatred
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2016 : 15:54:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Wizards with fly, protection from arrows and fireball should be sufficient.
Or, dimension door with ship boarders that have alchemists fire.
A spell to break the hull at the water line....
Wow, this was an old tactic of mine too (not the fireball, but snilloc's snowball swarm OR a spell like cone of cold), and I usually included stoneskin, shield, and improved invisibility. There was an old 2nd edition spell like dim door (something with jump in the name) that sent you somewhere you're looking for 2 rounds and then jumped you right back. I'd get prepped with protections and then jump around the ocean hitting the PC's ships with spells and then moving somewhere else. Since I was improved invisible, your standard sailors couldn't spot me, so unless the mage happened to spot me, I usually got off the first assault as a surprise attack. The second round usually decimated the ship enough that they had to start repairs, and then I was off to another ship.
Haha, I also play so. This is a great version of the game. It gives me great pleasure. |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 06:08:33
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A question I've been thinking about for a while, but that also bears some relevance to this discussion:
What type of wood are ships typically made out of in the Realms?
Possibilities:
Duskwood is already used for mast spars, which is good to know because it's hard and resistant to fire. Could be a good choice for the hull too.
Laspar's like cedar, which is used in the real world so it might be an option, but it snaps when burned.
Suthwood is an interesting possibility, being exceedingly durable.
Zalantar/blackwood is strong and easily worked, a good possibility.
Oak and Ash have also been used in the RW, and exist in the Realms.
Unlikely:
Blueleaf might be unfavourable due to its habit of bending.
Felsul's probably too weak.
Hiexel probably succumbs to rot too easily.
Phandar's probably too rare.
Shadowtop wood splits too easily.
Silverbark's probably too weak.
Vundwood is specifically said to be mainly used for firewood.
Weirwood might be great if it wasn't rare, being fire-resistant and durable.
Information gathered from the 3e FRCS and Dragon #125.
I'm tempted to go with Duskwood as a default as they're incredibly durable and fire-resistant, and they're found all over Faerun.
Is there anything in the canon suggesting what ships are built with? |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 07:46:30
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Look at the naval magic in the old dragon magazines. There were a lot of naval battle spells.
Aside from the obvious offensive spells, simple and obvious spells would be crystalbrittle - then ram / transmutation of the hull / reverse gravity or levitation to up-end the vessel / Mordenkainen's sword to hack at the hull, etc. / disintegrate the hull / polymorph any object on the ship / airy water beneath the ship (this would alter buoyancy in the area) / telekinesis on something heavy - like a anchor or cannon and dropped into the hold to punch through the hull / any and all weather controlling spells (a simple gust of wind at an oblique angle to a ship would be devastating) / elemental summoning / illusions cast on hazards like rocks and shoals |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 10:56:23
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| Warp wood on the hull's planks? Fire (magical or alchemic) on the sails? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2016 : 14:59:16
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I've always loved the wall of iron spell. Nothing says it has to be in contact with anything at all when conjured... So call it into being 100 feet over a ship, and let it fall. If it hits, the least it will do is tear a big hole in the deck -- most likely, it'll keep right on going, tearing a hole all the way thru the ship.
And most ships don't do well with very large holes in the bottom.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 08:04:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've always loved the wall of iron spell. Nothing says it has to be in contact with anything at all when conjured... So call it into being 100 feet over a ship, and let it fall. If it hits, the least it will do is tear a big hole in the deck -- most likely, it'll keep right on going, tearing a hole all the way thru the ship.
And most ships don't do well with very large holes in the bottom.
Same goes for pretty much every wall / matter conjuration/creation spell...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 15:46:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've always loved the wall of iron spell. Nothing says it has to be in contact with anything at all when conjured... So call it into being 100 feet over a ship, and let it fall. If it hits, the least it will do is tear a big hole in the deck -- most likely, it'll keep right on going, tearing a hole all the way thru the ship.
And most ships don't do well with very large holes in the bottom.
Same goes for pretty much every wall / matter conjuration/creation spell...
Not really, at least not for the wall spells. Wall of stone needs existing stone to connect to, and walls of fire and force are utterly stationary. I suppose a wall of ice could be dropped, but it wouldn't have the mass of the iron and thus wouldn't do nearly as much damage. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Omenborn
Acolyte
Germany
16 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 17:56:42
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| Some Walls of Ice in the Water in front of the Enemy Fleet should do some damage when they crash into them. How about bargainig for the help of some Draong Turles or Black Dragons for a part of the Spoils of War ? |
Some Adventure for Gold,
others for Fame,
ME i just like to KILL THING |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 18:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Omenborn
Some Walls of Ice in the Water in front of the Enemy Fleet should do some damage when they crash into them.
Only if you can anchor the wall to something -- it has to be anchored, per the spell description.
And even then, the greater mass of the ship would likely plow through the wall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 18:41:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Omenborn
Some Walls of Ice in the Water in front of the Enemy Fleet should do some damage when they crash into them.
Only if you can anchor the wall to something -- it has to be anchored, per the spell description.
And even then, the greater mass of the ship would likely plow through the wall.
Place the wall of ice on bow of attacking ship. Make it a sphere. Depending on caster level the bow will break off the ship causing the ship to sink.
Of course one does run into how many spells can be cast and number of spell casters in the navy. Most wars does not appear to be won by magic, battles can be not wars. War requires maintaining control over territory. That is done by army as opposed to even mass charm. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 13:30:02
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| The point about battles being won by casters but not wars is a very good one. Its all well and good when you know a battle is brewing to have prepared casters, but the day to day strivings will be less likely to involve heavy magic use..... however, the ship that does have a high level magic user will rule the day. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 16:28:09
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| have a few clerics of umberlee do it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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how to sink a fleet?;)
