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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2016 : 13:12:51
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Assuming enough magic and no ability to counter it on the other side, the ways of sinking or burning a fleet of ships in the Forgotten Realms are nearly infinite.
Summoning great aquatic beasts or a swarm of air, fire or water elementals would do it. So would enough Meteor Swarms or even enough Fireballs. Sorcerous storms, blasts of lightning, prismatic walls or massive weights falling from on high.
In any fleet engagement in the Realms, I expect that some ships are struck with powerful magic without the ability to counter it and are thus utterly destroyed. On the other hand, given that fire extinguishing spells are usually easier to learn and cast than spells which set such a large area on fire and that this usually holds true for other types of magic as well, I wouldn't expect it to be a common outcome for an entire fleet to sink or be destroyed.
Even into the 19th century on our Earth, most naval battles ended with one or more of the loser's ships captured, with destruction during the battle being a dramatic exception, not the rule. L'Orient blew up at the Nile, but even at that famously decisive and destructive battle, nine out of thirteen French ships-of-the-line were captured and not destroyed.
So you ought to be considering how to capture most of the ships in the enemy fleet. From what I can determine, every magic system that has been used in the Forgotten Realms shares the feature that magic is more powerful as a force multiplier when used for communication, information-gathering, logistical and terrain-adaptation purposes than when used in pure damaging roles.
If you are facing a regular Cormyrean fleet, with only 'Blue' Dragon naval personnel and the Wizards of War aboard, your problem is much more severe than if the opposition was composed of a few naval ships, a force of Cormyrean Freesail and other allies of Cormyr sent from several harbours.
Realistically, a regular fleet means that there won't be any ships in the Cormyrean force that do not have organic magical support and that the navigation and communication of the enemy will be magical as much as mundane. They can concentrate their fleet at a precise spot and time, even if the weather is adverse, and no element of it will ever be out of contact from the rest.
Given the expense of a ship, crew and weapons designed purely for naval combat, it simply doesn't make sense to fit out a naval vessel and then allow it to blunder blindly about in shoal waters. It's even likely that the War Wizards will be able to have summoned creatures and wizard eyes scout ahead of each squadron of the fleet for submerged hazards and to navigate through dangerous waters.
The proper response to such a fleet is to scatter your own ships, avoid them and hide. Beach some ships in hidden inlets or take shelter in rarely used pirate coves. Let leaders hide under assumed names in pirate-friendly ports and your crews hide inland on the various Pirate Islands, where they can be fed by the slave farms that presumably exist there.
Defend any settlement too valuable to lose, if there is such a thing, but be aware that Cormyr can probably amass enough ships, wizards and soldiers to take even Immurk's Hold if it becomes really important. In any case, defend from land-based forts, which are hard to take from the sea, and use your ships exclusively to prevent landings elsewhere on the defended island.
Your goal is to refuse any decisive engagement until the massively expensive fleet cannot be maintained any longer and Cormyr gives up. Don't worry, it will eventually give up, because a real fleet is astronomically expensive to keep on a war footing and while this fleet is in existence, a worryingly large part of the War Wizards and the Purple Dragons will be assigned to it. Cormyr will be vulnerable on land while they try to keep the fleet in existence to hunt down elusive pirates.
If, on the other hand, Cormyr has called together a 'fleet' consisting mostly of merchant ships with membership in the Cormyrean Freesails, with only a few real naval vessels, your task is much easier. In this case, the chain-of-command may not be as clear-cut as with a real Cormyrean fleet and it is not certain that all vessels have capable mages for communications and navigation. With superior knowledge of the Pirate Isles and a good intelligence network, it may be possible to concentrate your own force on detachments of the enemy and defeat him in detail. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2016 : 16:57:23
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Icelander pretty much nails it above. If Cormyr is coming at you in force, don't bother trying to defend in a straight up engagement. Scatter your forces and go to ground. Even if you have 50 ships and skilled crews, you are not going to have the resources necessary to beat the whole of Cormyr's forces, if they are coming for you in force.
In any case, the first order of the day for you is to determine what you are up against, because without that knowledge, you are "sailing blind".
If you're outnumbered and outgunned, the wise course of action will normally be to withdraw and deny the enemy the fight. If that's impossible, then you're down to tactics, skill, and luck. If you opponent dominates you in the magic department, and you can't run away, you're basically screwed. If you dominate him, then you have a chance, depending on what spells, and how many of them, you can bring to bear. As for which spells, there are dozens^n to choose from, and the more creative you can get, the more there are. I played in a merchant campaign once, but never got a chance to test this thought out, but theoretically, a (Sudden) Widened Cloudkill ought to be able to cover a fair bit of an enemy ship, and I'd expect that most average NPC sailers would be Lvl. 3 or less, and most NPC officers Lvl. 6 or less, meaning that most of the crew on the target ship ought to die pretty quick.
Historically speaking, most old time naval engagements rarely ended up sinking ships. It wasn't until the invension of the high explosive grenades etc. that ships sinking became a "common" part of naval battles. Until that point, ships sinking as a result of naval battles weren't really all that common. You might want to read this https://www.rpg.net/columns/ourstory/ourstory6.phtml over at rpg.net. IMO it's pretty good. |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 16:31:21
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been away for a bit to get back to read post, a bit of a surprise (good surprise) on so many replies. thanks for the help, and very interesting reading.
i do agree taking on cormyr is a very risky. but i am planning on sending in spies to see how large fleet is, one of my plans is counter attack.
once they sail i will attack there undefeated ports and then go underground.
i do have excess to shadows and was thinking sending them to some ships and turning the crew into shadows
i am trying not to use too much magic as wizards can pick up on it quick with detect magic
i like the dim door with ship boarder.
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 16:46:06
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| Lots of smokepowder in 50 gallon barrels. Have a psion or two blow them up when they get near ships. Depending on campaign, psionics might not be detectable by wizards. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 01:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Lots of smokepowder in 50 gallon barrels. Have a psion or two blow them up when they get near ships. Depending on campaign, psionics might not be detectable by wizards.
> Piss on what?
Setting smokepowder on fire isn't hard. A basic "fire rope" fuse screened by cloth is enough, if the idea is to use them in demolition/limpet way. That is, get them to the ships.
But how? Combat divers?
There are many problems - and detect magic is the last of them. Serôsian politics may be somewhere in the middle of the list, depending on where such an operation would be attempted. But in the unlikely case they somehow have support from below, smokepowder may be superfluous.
A contact fuse is a simple mechanical device. Flintlock type fuses were used in early sea mines of our world. A spray of hypergolic ("firebirth") mix would do, too. Or may as well use magical, because it's not like the targets would have magical radars all the way to the horizon active day and night - if a trap is investigated before triggering at all, it already have failed. Some sort of a "that burn when this burns" magical link would be a better equivalent of galvanic mine fuse.
But the fuse is not the hard part.
The hard part is to get your traps in contact with the ship without being noticed and avoided/diverted/destroyed. How would it look practically?
Remotely controlled sea bottom minefield at your own shoal?
That's good - if it actually works - but it's a last-ditch defence system that needs much testing and a lot of efforts to set up, maintain and even operate.
Offensive minelaying?
Hard to implement properly and requires lots and lots of mines. The reliable hardware for fast minelaying (both automatic anchor and rail system), while not too complex, in our world was built only by late XIX century, and not for lack of trying earlier. It's not something a pirate base on an island could do.
Self-propelled munitions?
Certainly possible in low-tech solutions (a log towed by kite, add warhead to taste), but exceedingly unreliable, circumstantial and laughably easy to counter if the target knows what to expect. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 10:14:53
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quote:
If you are facing a regular Cormyrean fleet, with only 'Blue' Dragon naval personnel and the Wizards of War aboard, your problem is much more severe than if the opposition was composed of a few naval ships, a force of Cormyrean Freesail and other allies of Cormyr sent from several harbours.
this is very true.
i am thinking of abandoning my town and have my men go underground.
but i think i will use some tactics (non ship to ship), like dim door on to some ships, shadows and summon sea monsters to damage the fleet.
my plan here will be have them running around looking for me as i go on the counter attack against cormyr allies and some of cormyr weaker port towns with no naval support. call it plan A lol |
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how to sink a fleet?;)
