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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2016 : 12:03:25
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| I see this as generalization meaning they ruled almost everywhere with most of their population around the sea (as most other civilisations do). As they are mostly individualistic and accept only vassals on their turf there were many "kingdoms" all over the place. Some used human minions and others just stayed in their cave and slept. That is why we have heard of only a fraction of mighty dragons. There is a book called Dragons of Faerun and if you look at ages of those dragons you can see a lot of them here for a long time. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2016 : 22:05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I came across a line which went something like this.
In the ancient past dragons ruled the lands from the inner sea to the sword coast. Then the elves came and the dragons retreated to the north.
So if imagine that the inner sea
Heh, and then it turned out in these times there was no inner sea.
And that the dragons were in charge until King-Killer star.
quote:
I dont think we have anything about the batrachi there but i vaguely recall an aearee enclave in or near the shaar.
Dragons began as aearee pets/slaves
IIRC, dragons appeared as a rain of egg meteors.
quote:
so perhaps something of the aearee survived there that predated on dragons.
Did the elves destroy whatever that remnant was?
Those are Aarakocra (and Kenku). After the dragons destroyed or displaced most of them, they couldn't raise to importance again - too few were left, too much was lost. But didn't die out completely either. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2016 : 01:33:34
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If you use some of the lore from the two quasi-canonical Shaar adventure-paths (they were done 'generic', even though the maps were FR), there seems to be a large number of half-dragons in the Channath (Elsir) Vale. That would infer some 'dragon lords' at one time.
As for canon, we'd have to go a bit further afield, but we may find our answer - Genies. The Al-Qadim (Zakhara) material clearly states the dragons are afraid of Zakhara because of all the dgen. Could be they avoid 'the south' altogether. Since Calimshan stomped all over the Shaar and parts south during their imperial era, one could imagine that they brought their genie-kind with them. In fact, given some of the other lore regarding the Old Empires, the Shining Waters, and even the Utter East and maybe Imsakar (Raurin region - see Deserts of Desolation), the dragons may just be avoiding any area predisposed toward another race that don't find them 'so scary'.
EDIT:
Also, In Elaine's Evermeet novel, there was some discourse about Avariel (winged elves) being very effective against dragons. 'Back in the Day' (pre-Crown War) the Dark Elves (pre-Drow green/Sylvan Elves) had total control of the southern regions of Faerûn. I can imagine a bat-winged (fiend-blooded) dark Elf brigade who's purpose was to combat draconic threats. We also had at least one uber-mage with them K'narlist (sp?), who seemed like who could easily take-out a few dragons by himself. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Nov 2016 02:04:55 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2016 : 20:38:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you use some of the lore from the two quasi-canonical Shaar adventure-paths (they were done 'generic', even though the maps were FR), there seems to be a large number of half-dragons in the Channath (Elsir) Vale. That would infer some 'dragon lords' at one time.
Or just a single shapeshifting dragon who is... really into mingling with the scale-less species. 
quote:
EDIT:
Also, In Elaine's Evermeet novel, there was some discourse about Avariel (winged elves) being very effective against dragons.
Given more in The Year of Rogue Dragons. Yeah.
Which is why my pet hypothesis is that they are result of Aearee "uplifting" some elves as more warlike species after the dragons became a credible threat.
quote:
I can imagine a bat-winged (fiend-blooded) dark Elf brigade who's purpose was to combat draconic threats.
Because no way even one pointless copycat can be skipped. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 03:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
I can imagine a bat-winged (fiend-blooded) dark Elf brigade who's purpose was to combat draconic threats.
Because no way even one pointless copycat can be skipped.
Or, it could be I read Evermeet, Isle of Elves VERY carefully, and K'narlist (sp?) wanted to capture some Avariel just to make his own, special 'winged dark elf'. As far as we know, he never caught any Avariel, so being who he was (a very ebil dude), I just extrapolated that he would have devised another means of making 'winged dark elves' (because the novel also said he was into weird 'breeding programs').
Or, it could just be that I think bat-winged drow would be uber-kewl.
So, if Jarlaxle is 'The Joker', does that make Driz'zt 'Batdrow' (cue raspy voice: "I'm Batdrow!") |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Nov 2016 04:17:00 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 14:23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you use some of the lore from the two quasi-canonical Shaar adventure-paths (they were done 'generic', even though the maps were FR), there seems to be a large number of half-dragons in the Channath (Elsir) Vale. That would infer some 'dragon lords' at one time.
As for canon, we'd have to go a bit further afield, but we may find our answer - Genies. The Al-Qadim (Zakhara) material clearly states the dragons are afraid of Zakhara because of all the dgen. Could be they avoid 'the south' altogether. Since Calimshan stomped all over the Shaar and parts south during their imperial era, one could imagine that they brought their genie-kind with them. In fact, given some of the other lore regarding the Old Empires, the Shining Waters, and even the Utter East and maybe Imsakar (Raurin region - see Deserts of Desolation), the dragons may just be avoiding any area predisposed toward another race that don't find them 'so scary'.
EDIT:
Also, In Elaine's Evermeet novel, there was some discourse about Avariel (winged elves) being very effective against dragons. 'Back in the Day' (pre-Crown War) the Dark Elves (pre-Drow green/Sylvan Elves) had total control of the southern regions of Faerûn. I can imagine a bat-winged (fiend-blooded) dark Elf brigade who's purpose was to combat draconic threats. We also had at least one uber-mage with them K'narlist (sp?), who seemed like who could easily take-out a few dragons by himself.
Just to note, in canon (but not necessarily the realms) we do have bat winged drow. The canon ones were named Fainil. They could have migrated.... of just like the Fey'ri they could just be a similar development in FR.
From Dragon #244 "Warriors of the Wind" Article
The Fainil and Telvar originated on the same world, a
planet known as Tir. The deadly conflict between the gray
elves and drow on Tir occurred shortly after the world was
created. The gray elves drove the drow underground,
where the dark elves plotted their return to the surface for
centuries. One of the questions the drow faced was how to
deal with the Telvar, who were certain to side with the other
surface races against any invasion from the subterranean
drow. The Telvar’s mobility could wreak havoc on the loosely
organized humanoid tribes the drow planned to use to
spearhead their conquest. The drow recognized the need to
develop a flying contingent of their own, one that would be
both loyal and willing to face the Telvar in their own
element.
The Fainil were the result of this strategic necessity. The
offspring of a selective breeding process between drow and
tanar’ri allies, the Fainil have qualities of both ancestors.
When the drow attacked the surface world, the Fainil were
at the forefront of the greatest drow victories. This military
superiority was proven when the war ended after 50 years
and sunlight returned to Tir. While the rest of the drow were
destroyed or driven underground, the two Fainil fortresses,
Morvan and Moddan, withstood repeated assaults. The
Fainil remain in their isolated strongholds to this day, gaining
strength and plotting.
Since the war on Tir, the Fainil have spread slowly to
other worlds, although the center of their society remains in
the fortresses of Morvan and Moddan. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 14:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you use some of the lore from the two quasi-canonical Shaar adventure-paths (they were done 'generic', even though the maps were FR), there seems to be a large number of half-dragons in the Channath (Elsir) Vale. That would infer some 'dragon lords' at one time.
As for canon, we'd have to go a bit further afield, but we may find our answer - Genies. The Al-Qadim (Zakhara) material clearly states the dragons are afraid of Zakhara because of all the dgen. Could be they avoid 'the south' altogether. Since Calimshan stomped all over the Shaar and parts south during their imperial era, one could imagine that they brought their genie-kind with them. In fact, given some of the other lore regarding the Old Empires, the Shining Waters, and even the Utter East and maybe Imsakar (Raurin region - see Deserts of Desolation), the dragons may just be avoiding any area predisposed toward another race that don't find them 'so scary'.
EDIT:
Also, In Elaine's Evermeet novel, there was some discourse about Avariel (winged elves) being very effective against dragons. 'Back in the Day' (pre-Crown War) the Dark Elves (pre-Drow green/Sylvan Elves) had total control of the southern regions of Faerûn. I can imagine a bat-winged (fiend-blooded) dark Elf brigade who's purpose was to combat draconic threats. We also had at least one uber-mage with them K'narlist (sp?), who seemed like who could easily take-out a few dragons by himself.
Just to note, in canon (but not necessarily the realms) we do have bat winged drow. The canon ones were named Fainil. They could have migrated.... of just like the Fey'ri they could just be a similar development in FR.
From Dragon #244 "Warriors of the Wind" Article
The Fainil and Telvar originated on the same world, a
planet known as Tir. The deadly conflict between the gray
elves and drow on Tir occurred shortly after the world was
created. The gray elves drove the drow underground,
where the dark elves plotted their return to the surface for
centuries. One of the questions the drow faced was how to
deal with the Telvar, who were certain to side with the other
surface races against any invasion from the subterranean
drow. The Telvar’s mobility could wreak havoc on the loosely
organized humanoid tribes the drow planned to use to
spearhead their conquest. The drow recognized the need to
develop a flying contingent of their own, one that would be
both loyal and willing to face the Telvar in their own
element.
The Fainil were the result of this strategic necessity. The
offspring of a selective breeding process between drow and
tanar’ri allies, the Fainil have qualities of both ancestors.
When the drow attacked the surface world, the Fainil were
at the forefront of the greatest drow victories. This military
superiority was proven when the war ended after 50 years
and sunlight returned to Tir. While the rest of the drow were
destroyed or driven underground, the two Fainil fortresses,
Morvan and Moddan, withstood repeated assaults. The
Fainil remain in their isolated strongholds to this day, gaining
strength and plotting.
Since the war on Tir, the Fainil have spread slowly to
other worlds, although the center of their society remains in
the fortresses of Morvan and Moddan.
And of course, nothing even says they'd have to be half-fiends.... it would fit the drow culture, but other options for bat-winged drow would fit as well. For instance, half-dragon drow. In fact, deep dragons have a close relationship with drow. Granted, most half-dragons that are medium don't have wings though. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dragons
