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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 07:59:56
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*sighs*
Does everyone at Wizards of the Coast have OCD or are they just not that creative? All they seem to know how to do is these "save the world" APs that aren't that good to start with and happen under the same roof.
I could maybe, and I mean maybe, understand them happening on different worlds or different time periods but this is just ridiculous. So now we have giants as this weeks RSE. You would think the big powers of this living world would stand up and say "hold on a minute. What the hell is happening with the Sword Coast?" I would expect Elminster and the rest to come and sort things out but unfortunately enjoys everyone being in their own bubble and the whole world be static.
God I wish they would get rid of Perkins and bring in someone who can give a bit of variety.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 10:45:25
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Agreed, it's so boring I don't know what to say. Here they have this rich, insanely detailed world yeah giant smash face
I have to say I love the topdown art of the ship and the giant face in the water (air?), very evocative. And then giant smash face |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 17:42:50
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| Yep. /post |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 17:49:50
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One point of (kinda-sorta) defense I will offer in their favor: for 5E, they've only detailed one area of the Realms... So it makes sense to keep going back to that well.
Of course, it would make more sense to detail more of the Realms, but that's apparently not WotC's thinking. That one I can't -- and won't -- defend.
I'll not try to defend the "moar BOOM!" mindset that they just can't seem to free themselves from, either.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 19:03:40
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Bah! It looks like it’s only regional, as supposed to a full-fledged Realms wide tooling. I think you guys are getting off easy. On the bright side they’re regurgitating Rune Magic from TSR 9487 FOR7 Giantcraft. Awesome. 
Of course I am still partying like it’s 1357, so… meh. These little Poseidon Adventures don’t really aggravate me... well.. anymore. But I am sensitive enough to arrange for additional seating for the newest additions to Team Gronard.
Welcome aboard! Here’s your cane, and a bag of poo to fling.
Okay, I really do have something somewhat substantive.
I believe the Wizards “let’s take a survey of the peeps who stuck out the latest debacle, asking them what them want to do next”, is not working. It hasn’t worked yet. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over, and over, and over, and…
You get it, and if you don’t there is always next time.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 19:39:56
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Meh. I think calling it an RSE is expanding the term to the point where "RSE" means nothing. The latest story is a Giant Uprising. If it follows the pattern of the Tyranny of Dragons, or Elemental Evil, or whatever, there will be little to no lasting change to the Realms. It doesn't shake the Realms. It sneezes. Sometimes it sneezes without covering its nose, and people might look up and go, "dude, seriously!?" but it remains a sneeze.
That said, I am tired of it. I'd rather something a little more down-to-earth. Something that's akin to the Iron Crisis from Baldur's Gate, but don't tie it to a god, or anything "epic." Leave that undefined. Let the heroes find the source of the Iron Shortage, the bad guys that are screwing things around, and let the DM decide if it's tied to anything "bigger." But that's my tastes. I don't see near as much negative feedback on the 5e Facebook groups about the adventure modules, so my assumption is that it is selling to a larger audience than my personal opinions. If not, oh well. I'm happy with the core system, and the DM's Guild is keeping me stocked in mechanics options I do like.
And as Thrasymachus points out, we're getting Rune Magic out of it. And maps. So there's something there. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2016 : 22:43:40
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| LOL so the RSE's are not coming at us through the novel line anymore, but through the Adventure splats now. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 06:30:37
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Every freakin' 6 months, the poor Sword Coast gets flayed by yet another cataclysmic RSE. It's really getting old. Totally agree with the sentiments of the OP.
If anyone has Twitter, could you please post to Perkins and the other staff D&D accounts? Does Perkins and his staff not realize how many of us are getting tired of this same old crap? I don't do Twitter, sorry, but it's unfortunate that Twit is now their preferred method of communication. I have emailed Jeremy Crawford in the past (mostly for rules clarifications), but they don't always respond back. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 08:27:00
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| Next storyline will be protecting the mass exodus from the Sword Coast, as all normal people living there have enough of this ###! |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 11:21:44
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| Nah, I think Delwa got it right - 5e has no RSE so far. Tyranny involved some wilderness areas and a couple of meetings with the Lord's Alliance, and the Rage was limited to a few Underdark caves. No big deal - the realms barely shook, assuming the heroes won. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 15:36:03
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| The main problem is their lack of creativity. They seem to think an end boss has to always be a god, demon lord, elemental prince etc...... |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 16:55:47
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Well, on this we can agree.
That said, with so few products, I understand why they stick to the classics. |
Edited by - Snotlord on 04 Jun 2016 18:53:40 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 19:22:37
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| When is the population of the Sword Coast going to undertake a mass-emigration to somewhere safe? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11999 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2016 : 20:48:24
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| The main problem is that they feel they need to write up the descriptions of all these modules as IF it were widespread. They write the descriptions as if it were an RSE, when in reality... its just Tuesday, and the giants that were bugging someone else previously move on to the sword coast, etc... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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BrianDavion
Seeker
71 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 05:12:30
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| as a new face to these forums, I think the RSE tendancy represents an annoying trend in gaming settings over all. where settings become all about telling us a story of "OMG EPIC AWESOMENESS!" rather then using a setting as "here's yuour sandbox, here's some info about it. and here's a few examples of typical adventures that could be had" I've seen it in a few of the other games I've played too (as well as the whole "we need to make this accessable to newbies let's blow the setting up... wait you mean we actually had a net loss of fans? well crap!" and IMHO gaming is worse off because of it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 05:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianDavion
as a new face to these forums, I think the RSE tendancy represents an annoying trend in gaming settings over all. where settings become all about telling us a story of "OMG EPIC AWESOMENESS!" rather then using a setting as "here's yuour sandbox, here's some info about it. and here's a few examples of typical adventures that could be had" I've seen it in a few of the other games I've played too (as well as the whole "we need to make this accessable to newbies let's blow the setting up... wait you mean we actually had a net loss of fans? well crap!" and IMHO gaming is worse off because of it.
I'm not familiar with a lot of game settings that have gone that particular route... But one setting that did, that your username brings to mind, is the BattleTech setting. The ridiculousness of the Jihad, the timejump, and then the Dark Age stuff was enough to ruin BattleTech for me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BrianDavion
Seeker
71 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 07:33:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by BrianDavion
as a new face to these forums, I think the RSE tendancy represents an annoying trend in gaming settings over all. where settings become all about telling us a story of "OMG EPIC AWESOMENESS!" rather then using a setting as "here's yuour sandbox, here's some info about it. and here's a few examples of typical adventures that could be had" I've seen it in a few of the other games I've played too (as well as the whole "we need to make this accessable to newbies let's blow the setting up... wait you mean we actually had a net loss of fans? well crap!" and IMHO gaming is worse off because of it.
I'm not familiar with a lot of game settings that have gone that particular route... But one setting that did, that your username brings to mind, is the BattleTech setting. The ridiculousness of the Jihad, the timejump, and then the Dark Age stuff was enough to ruin BattleTech for me.
I was certainly thinking of it, and Battletech's not gotten any better lately. a more recent example would be Games workshop retooling Warhammer Fantasy into Age of Sigmar. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 18:20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
Nah, I think Delwa got it right - 5e has no RSE so far. Tyranny involved some wilderness areas and a couple of meetings with the Lord's Alliance, and the Rage was limited to a few Underdark caves. No big deal - the realms barely shook, assuming the heroes won.
Don't the heroes always win? :)
Because if no Band of Adventurers managed to succeed stopping the Big Bads (e.g. Cult of Tiamat, the Elemental Princes cults, etc) then the logical conclusion would be that the Sword Coast would be wrecked by the baddies, and eventually the world would also go all to hell.
So if you take out that above meta-gaming assumption that "the good guys always win".… you'd still have to admit that the recent APs have the potential to turn the known Faerunian world upside-down.
Take for example… what if the minions of Orcus or Demogorgon succeeded in obliterating Menzoberranzan, or maybe even capturing it and completely subjugating the entire Drow capital city? IMHO, that totally changes the entire Forgotten Realms as we knew it. The surviving Drow might as well kneel before Orcus, and Lolth worship would end, effectively erasing Lolth from the roster of Faerun's evil deities. THAT in itself will affect everything, not just Drow society. It could even lead to the collapse of the major Orc kingdoms allied with the Drow because the Northern Orcs have just lost their best allies. It completely changes the entire ecosystem of the Northern Realms.
I'm not sure if the term would be Realm-Shattering or Realm-Shaking… but clearly the threats posed in those APs has the potential to completely change the Realms upside-down.
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 18:36:16
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The one about the demon lords has a much larger potential than just changing the drow. That's because the demon lords could easily leave the Underdark and start roaming in the surface, with much larger consequences.
Drow cities have fallen and changed, with Lolth's faith losing a lot of power, or disappearing altogether (Ched Nasad, Maerimydra, Llurth Dreir, Sshamath), and nothing has changed for her. Menzo is not even the biggest drow city out there, just the one filled with the largest number of brainwashed zealots. The other drow cities would merely blame their fall on their weakness, or something along those lines. The followers of Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, or Kiaransalee wouldn't be affected, and those deities themselves could gain more followers by assisting the victims of the demon lords. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 05 Jun 2016 18:39:21 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 21:49:56
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
So if you take out that above meta-gaming assumption that "the good guys always win".… you'd still have to admit that the recent APs have the potential to turn the known Faerunian world upside-down.
Sure.
But it is a game, isn't it? Not simulation. Not real life. Not medieval Europe. I consider modules "what if..." stories. Perhaps it makes it easier. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2016 : 23:16:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
So if you take out that above meta-gaming assumption that "the good guys always win".… you'd still have to admit that the recent APs have the potential to turn the known Faerunian world upside-down.
Sure.
But it is a game, isn't it? Not simulation. Not real life. Not medieval Europe. I consider modules "what if..." stories. Perhaps it makes it easier.
I don't because they actually affect the Forgotten Realms canon. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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BrianDavion
Seeker
71 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2016 : 02:40:47
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| I don't mind module that amount to "stop the big bad from unleashing a massivly destructive thing that will chan ge everything for the worse" because so long as the heros win the day little has actually changed, no one would even remember the Spell plague if it had been "luckly nothing of the sort happened because plucky adventurer's stopped Cyric from killing Mystra! boy the realms sure dodged a bullet!" |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2016 : 05:30:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I don't because they actually affect the Forgotten Realms canon.
In games heroes usually win, and I assume that is the case in FR canon. So if the new story follows the example of Tyranny and Rage, there will not be much shaking involved if the heroes win, and the good people of the Sword Coast has little reason to move anywhere.
Personally I think its a bigger problem that this leaves us with paper tiger villains - the realms does not shake enough - but I can see why wotc chooses this path considering the larger events in the past. For instance, the Rage of Dragons and Last Mythal both had real impact on faerun, but many people did not like it for various reasons.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2016 : 16:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I don't because they actually affect the Forgotten Realms canon.
In games heroes usually win, and I assume that is the case in FR canon. So if the new story follows the example of Tyranny and Rage, there will not be much shaking involved if the heroes win, and the good people of the Sword Coast has little reason to move anywhere.
Personally I think its a bigger problem that this leaves us with paper tiger villains - the realms does not shake enough - but I can see why wotc chooses this path considering the larger events in the past. For instance, the Rage of Dragons and Last Mythal both had real impact on faerun, but many people did not like it for various reasons.
You don't have to shake things up to win. That like saying saying the only way a cop can stop a criminal is by shooting them. Luckily most cops here don't carry guns.
It shows a real lack of creativity . |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2016 : 22:06:12
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But so many RSE storylines were left unfinished!
What's Szass Tam been up too with that Dread Ring notion? Sure, he suffered a bit of a setback last time around, but he is an immortal lich, he is a noted genius in crafting plans and plots which take centuries to reach fruition. And he's also noted for holding unhealthy grudges, being stubbornly tenacious, and inhumanly vengeful (old-school Red Wizard + Necromancer + Lich, lol) ... I wonder what ever happened (or will happen) to those meddling little heroes who mucked around with Szassy's plans last time around?
Dragonrage ... just a one-time event? No more dragons or whassup, huh?
Orcish hordes and barbarian hordes and orcish barbarian hordes? They used to rise up and sweep over the landscape like clockwork. Sure, they'd invariably fail, but then they'd just slink back into the wilderness and multiply in numbers for a generation or two before trying it all over again. It's been too long since their last wave, I fear their ecosystem may have been damaged.
Phaerimm, liches, gods and goddesses, no more noble-death-sacrifice of Mystra? C'mon! These things are well-established traditions in Realmslore, where are they now? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Rils
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2016 : 22:41:07
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For some reason it seems like the term "RSE" has come to be defined as "bad guys doing bad things". Any epic scale plot has the theoretical ability to change things in the Realms - but that doesn't make it an RSE. If you're going to use that broad of a definition, then pretty much anything Manshoon, Szass Tam, heck even Elminster, the Sisters, etc has done counts as an RSE.
But "something about the Realms has changed" is not the right criteria to wave the RSE Banner. This story arc is simply another episode of "Giants Gone Wild", and the rest of the Realms is sitting back with a bowl of popcorn to watch.
If you want an RSE, you have to look at things like pantheons getting redefined (ToT), the entire magic system getting reorganized (Spellplague), the geography of the planet getting rearranged (Sundering), etc. Giants making a nuisance of themselves just doesn't cut it in my book. |
Dugmaren Brightmantle is my homey. |
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Direhammer
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2016 : 15:30:11
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| So now I'm wondering, what adventuring party dropped the ball and allowed the Tablets of Fate to be stolen? Who's to blame for the Time of Troubles? |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2016 : 16:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Direhammer
So now I'm wondering, what adventuring party dropped the ball and allowed the Tablets of Fate to be stolen? Who's to blame for the Time of Troubles?
Good one 
This is the heart of the discussion, given the topic. The Time of Troubles was a RSE because it changed the realms - a certain outcome is fixed in a series of books.
Rage of Demons is not a RSE because the damage is limited and outcome is left for the characters to decide (as far as I know). And characters usually win. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2016 : 16:12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rils
For some reason it seems like the term "RSE" has come to be defined as "bad guys doing bad things". Any epic scale plot has the theoretical ability to change things in the Realms - but that doesn't make it an RSE. If you're going to use that broad of a definition, then pretty much anything Manshoon, Szass Tam, heck even Elminster, the Sisters, etc has done counts as an RSE.
The thing is, we have these big events, with godlike beings (giants are not godlike, but a massive giant stampede hardly is just a nuisance) trying to wreak havoc along the Sword Coast/the North. These events happen back to back, in a short timespan (like what, 1 per in-universe year?), and have the potential to kill huge numbers of people, destroy cities, and so on. I guess that you can see why this is far fetched, and that cities are going to fall, people are going to be decimated, and so on, at some point, if you have so many powerful beings doing that kind of stuff repeatedly--even if the heroes win (and we've had 4 potential apocalypses in like 5 in-word years).
It's just not good storytelling IMHO, and it wouldn't be even if everything was back to normal after every event. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 07 Jun 2016 21:44:09 |
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Aaaaand it looks another RSE on the Sword Coast.
