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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:10:30
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WARNING BELOW HAS A SPOILER FOR "THE COMPANIONS", DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE SPOILED!!!
So at the end of the Companions , it is hinted that Lolth has a vendetta against Drizzt. I was wondering if Lolth herself became involved in the attack...would Corellon come to Drizzt's aid? I know Drizzt's present goddess isn't as powerful as Lolth. And I know that Corellon despises Lolth. So would he interfere? Just because its Lolth?
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:12:24
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| I would say no. He does not follow Corellon and he is a drow, two points against the elven overdeity taking interest in one single creature that gets "bothered" by Lolth. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:21:29
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| I have rather strong feeling that Lolth herself is not going to take action, because in 5th edition they will lessen the involvement of gods. (Rather moot point given The Companions storyarc.) Lord Bane's point is also valid: why would Corellon care about Drizzt? In RAS-books there is never even mention about Corellon. Given the storyarc I'd say that it is more possible that Moradin will take interest in things. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:22:45
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| Well him being a drow shouldn't matter, But I understand the other reasons you listed. Single being and not a follower. But didn't he come to some drow's aid at the end of the Lady Penitant (sp? ) series? And I am not sure his how deep his animosity is toward Lolth, Which is wjy I asked. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:24:44
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| Being a drow should matter. It was Corellon who banished them into the Underdark. You can´t say he gives them a shrug with the shoulder but rather a push over a cliff. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:27:53
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| Ah. But I thought some drow worshipped Ellistrae ( Thats the part I meant when I asked if he came to the drow's aid before) and at the end of the series I mentioned above .didnt he absorb Ellistrae and her followers? Or am I completely wrong? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:28:09
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Corellon didn't care to lift a finger to aid either his daughter and son nor their drow followers against Lolth. He simply allowed the ex-drow who followed Eilistraee into his Realm. Also, he doesn't do anything about his followers' prejudice and kill on sight attitude they have when it comes to drow. According to this behaviour, I doubt he would care about a single drow.
I don't believe that Lolth would directly attack Drizzt, it would suck a lot story wise. Also, Drizzt already has a goddess and she has allies who would aid her, if she needed it.
TBH, a Lolth-Corellon war doesn't strike me as a possible important element of a Drizzt book (but it's just how I feel about it).
Also, no. Corellon didn't absorb anyone. Eilistraee and Vhaeraun (as the Maked Lady) simply vanished, it's not even sure that they are actually dead (things are muddy there, the author herself said she left loopholes on purpose). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Aug 2013 10:33:05 |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 10:31:44
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| Ok. I'm unfamiliar with Corellon. Thanks for the answers. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 15:47:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Granted, it's been over twenty years so I last read the "Dark Elf" trilogy... but hasn't Lolth had a beef against Drizzt almost since the day he was born?
I think that only point in which Drizzt is not hated by Lolth is Icewind trilogy (that is because said hate was not invented at that point i think.) |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 16:28:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Granted, it's been over twenty years so I last read the "Dark Elf" trilogy... but hasn't Lolth had a beef against Drizzt almost since the day he was born?
Yeah. But then it was minor. What did she care about a lone drow outcast? However, in these recent books, its been strongly hinted that Drizzt may be a chosen of Lolth as well as his own goddess, And it also seems the direction of this arc...Lolth may becoming more involved in this beef personally. JMV from the recent books. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 17:01:58
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You never know. 
Gods never reveal everything that they support or fight against. And in Drizzt's case, there are several things that could potentially garner Corellon's interest and succor.
1. It may indeed be the case that Drizzt is an unwitting Chosen of Lolth. And deities and their agents do tend to watch the Chosen agents of their enemy deities more than others. Remember that Liriel Baenre was, at one time, believed to be the Chosen of Lolth. She ultimately turned away from Lolth, of course, but Lolth's offer was still there (until she turned away from Lolth). Being a Chosen isn't always something that is obvious to the Chosen, especially if the deity hasn't directly shown up and said, "HEY, you are my Chosen."
2. Given Drizzt's remarkable good luck and noble actions down the years, he may have even been secretly favored by another god or goddess who is an enemy of Lolth. Perhaps Corellon, perhaps Eilistraee, perhaps Sehanine Moonbow or some other deity. There's really no way to be sure until -and if- RA Salvatore reveals the truth. Drizzt chose to serve and worship Mielikki, and she does favor Drizzt, but it does not seem that he is her Chosen, at least. It has been strongly suggested that two goddesses are "fighting" over him, but that too isn't crystal clear.
3. With Eilistraee's "sacrifice" just before 4E, Corellon stepped in to take over at least some of her function and watch over non-evil drow. Truthfully, we have not seen much activity by the Elvish gods, at least in novels, so there isn't a whole lot that really gets attributed to any of them. So it's possible that they are more subtle about their influences, more inclined to work through various celestial and mortal agents as opposed to the much flashier, more direct intervention of the western Faerunian pantheon's gods.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 20:49:26
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@ Therise: On point #1...I thought Liriel originally accepted Lloth and was infused with power, later turned away from Lloth BUT Lloth (as a lover of chaos and irony) essentially forced Liriel to remain her Chosen (as a result, the temple to Eli in Undermountain was attacked). At what point was Liriel no longer considered her Chosen?
ALSO on point #1...when did being the Chosen of ANY deity become something that can be 'unwitting'? I get that Lloth at one point favored Drizzt for the chaos he caused in Menzo, but that's a far cry from being a Chosen. Or am I missing something? It's been a while since I read any FR books concerning Lloth/Drizzt so please explain if there is canon lore for this.
Point #2...which two deities may be fighting over him? In my homebrew, Drizzt actually follows Eli (who is still alive and well) but I consider her a much better fit than Mielikki.
Point #3...I agree, I think the Seldarine are far more subtle in their dealings. On a side note, they also let their 'children' make mistakes in order to force them to learn from them. I get this from a novel (I believe it was Evermeet) where Corellon states something to the effect that it wasn't the Seldarine's will that Evermeet be created (and thus have the continent ripped apart and cause so much destruction). But they didn't try to stop them either.
As to the OP's question: I haven't read the Companions yet (still waiting for it to arrive) but my gut reaction is...WHY? Lloth is a very powerful goddess so directing her attention to a lone drow renegade would seem pointless to me...unless she has some larger scheme she is working on. I can see her attempting to destroy Drizzt 'as a bonus' while working on this hypothetical scheme, but to have an active vendetta against him just seems a bit much. Also, it is canon (in RAS novels) that Lloth loves irony...what can be more ironic than a good drow having Lloth's favor while she works on her larger schemes. By favor, of course, I mean that she suffers his existence for the tumult he causes...she could care less about a single drow male who spurns her. She likely hates them as she hates all things and will 'pay him back' (in her mind at least) in due time. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 21:29:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
@ Therise: On point #1...I thought Liriel originally accepted Lloth and was infused with power, later turned away from Lloth BUT Lloth (as a lover of chaos and irony) essentially forced Liriel to remain her Chosen (as a result, the temple to Eli in Undermountain was attacked). At what point was Liriel no longer considered her Chosen?
Well, this is quite complicated and some of it depends on how you interpret the novels.
Liriel was a priestess of Lolth originally, but initially she was completely unaware that Lolth had made her a Chosen. And technically, she was called a "Zedriniset" which may or may not be a "Chosen" in the classic sense that the word is used. Zedriniset may mean something different, because there's also the word "Yor'thae" which -definitely- means Chosen. Zedriniset might mean something like "empowered tool of Chaos" or it might just be another word for Chosen.
I'm not sure if the rulebooks of that period give Liriel stats as a Chosen. But either way, Lolth gave her extra power in order to defeat Shakti (and also to empower her for the battle of Ruathym). Ultimately, Liriel understood that Lolth had given her these powers for malicious purposes and so she rejected Lolth, at which point Liriel is no longer condsidered either a Zedriniset or a Yor'thae.
Complete speculation: my personal pet theory is that "Zedriniset" means Chosen as we understand the term. And "Yor'thae" isn't a Chosen but rather a "chosen vessel" that is being prepared for assimilation (i.e. consumed) to become a future aspect or avatar. I think the gods can also have "favored children" in a sense, where they don't necessarily get any extra powers but are still mortals who are held high in favor/esteem with their deity.
quote:
ALSO on point #1...when did being the Chosen of ANY deity become something that can be 'unwitting'? I get that Lloth at one point favored Drizzt for the chaos he caused in Menzo, but that's a far cry from being a Chosen. Or am I missing something? It's been a while since I read any FR books concerning Lloth/Drizzt so please explain if there is canon lore for this.
Liriel didn't know, and came to understand the truth later.
We don't know for sure if Drizzt was ever a Chosen, or a favored tool for Chaos, or a Zedriniset, or if Lolth just simply found him amusing. It's all supposition at this point when it comes to Drizzt, I think.
quote:
Point #2...which two deities may be fighting over him? In my homebrew, Drizzt actually follows Eli (who is still alive and well) but I consider her a much better fit than Mielikki.
The current theory (held by a high-ranking Netherese) is that Mielikki may be fighting against Lolth. It's mostly speculation on their part, though.
Not sure if this helps clarify much.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 08 Aug 2013 21:47:25 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 21:40:36
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To put simply , without all the words a above. I think not, as Mielikki is the one he chose to serve, much like how Moraidian would most likely not aid a dwarf who worshiped Lathander.
I would like to know why though, someone who is introspective as drizzit and has no clerical or magical powers besides ones that are racial or item based. Why did he chose Mielikki to follow? |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 21:59:34
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Thanks Therise, just trying to get a handle on the concept. I did not recall Liriel being unaware of her status (I thought she made a choice).
I'm not sure that I would 'buy into' the speculation between Lloth and Mielikki though. Other than Drizzt, they really have very little reason to be at odds...other than philosophical differences, of course.
Silver: He was trained as a ranger by Montolio and so came to worship Mielikki (it's detailed in the novel Sojourn...not one of my favorites btw). I never cared for it myself though as I always considered Elistraee a much better fit for him (they are both outcasts, for instance). She also loves nature and (I assume) has rangers in her service too. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 22:04:43
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Those retcons, when Drizzt there was not other Drow Deities except for Lolth. A loner rejecting Lolth needed or at least found another deity to follow.
As for how Corellon treated Lolth that has been a matter of debate of why he did not do more. He clearly could have killed her instead of turning her into a minor demon, he clearly could have acted when she became a minor deity, certainly should have acted when she was becoming a major deity. However we know he did nothing about her growth to power. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 22:22:18
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| Keep in mind that drizzt had gained lolths favor as a child in realms of the underdark for himself and his house...without even knowing it.that's why he was so blessed with his skill and why his mother gave him the leeway that he did have. And remember lolth offered drizzt to errtu. If she really had a axe to grind,would she have done that? Also remember AO decreed that no god was allowed to directly kill a mortal worshipper of another god.vhearun said that to inthacis. Drizzt may be important to some ppl,but he is nothing to lolth. Matron beanre could have killed him singlehandedly if she had encountered him before that dead magic stone cancelled her protections.I still think lolth allowed him to survive because she wanted things to happen just the way it did. Beanre lost favor when she had matron dyr killed by that glabrezu for personal satisfaction to the detriment of her army.a big no no! That's why she died so easily by the dwarfs hand. Remember drizzt was 16th level ranger at that time(18th level fighter) yvonnel was 25th level priestess(chosen of lolth?).surrounded by other high priestesses fighters,bregan darthe. In other words drizzt and his friends shouldn't have beat her. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 04:37:09
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| Corellon's not going to do anything. He's probably the most passive of all the Greater Powers in FR. Not that I dislike him, but he's not a god I'd count on to have my back. |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 04:50:50
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| Yes.corellon can't be counted on.he is lax in defending his own chosen people.but I think that has something ro do with the fact that if the elves make it own their own,they'll evolve into something like the original leshey. As for being war like..the seldarine moved from their original plane because the asgardians were too war like. Corellon and the other seldarine conquered the realm they live in now,from the giant pantheon.they aren't scared to fight for what they want.it's just hard to get there attention.remember the high the rank of a god is the less they can focus on mortal matters... |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 04:34:13
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I don't know if "passive" is the right word, though it's true we haven't seen the Seldarine as actively involved as some of the other deities (except for maybe Shevarash), though as evidenced by the Descent of the Drow, that hasn't been always been the case. Keep in mind though, it was Eilistraee's choice to leave Arvandor. Corellon didn't force her--indeed protested--and he took her followers when she died so they wouldn't go to Lolth. With Vhaeraun...well I like him, and I feel he was an unwitting pawn to his mother's scheme and was punished unfairly, but oh well.
I remember reading, I think it was the Last Mythal trilogy, that the Seldarine love their children (the elves), and will grant them powers and such, but they also encourage the elves to do things on their own, for the betterment of the people. Something a long those lines. It's been a while since I've read the books.
In regards to the question at hand: it is hard to say. It's not impossible, but not likely, either. Corellon was mentioned by Innivondil (sp?) in the short story in which she and Drizzt put Ellifain's spirit to rest, but I'll admit I'm actually surprised Salvatore hasn't mentioned the Seldarine more, considering how many elven characters he has had in the past.
Mielikki would be more likely to step in, considering she is fond of Drizzt, anyway, but is she allied with the elven gods, so again, it isn't impossible. I don't think Corellon would turn Drizzt down if he decided to become a Corellite, because Drizzt has proven many times over that he is no Lolthite. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 04:50:39
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| Although Corellon wont interfere with Drizzt (its been 25 years of stories, he would have shown up by now), I wouldn't mind seeing a story with a disguised Corellon having a duel with our dark elf friend. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 05:03:18
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LOL that might be...amusing, but why would Corellon bother? Drizzt isn't his enemy, and no offense to Drizzt, who is a skilled ranger, but Corellon is a greater god, and would kick Drizzt's butt. Though gods have been known to duel mortals in the past, and "tone down" their powers to do so, otherwise the mortal would go splat.
Now that I think about it, Corellon might have glanced Drizzt's way more than once, so to speak. Drizzt has touched many elven lives, and while I don't think any god monitors all his followers 24/7, Drizzt has had an impact on many of Salvatore's elven characters.
I would like to see Bob mention Corellon a bit more, such as Drizzt meeting a cleric of him or something, but again, I don't think it's likely.
Then again, Bob has been full of surprises lately. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 07:40:54
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| Ok. So I saw online that one of Corellon's spheres was also Chaos ( I'm assuming therebis good Chaos). Can Drizzt unwittingly be favored by Corellon? I mean what's more chaotic than a drow who follows a good deity and he is an elf. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 12:32:50
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| Sure, why not. Hell, while we're at it, Drizzt has the favor of Asmodeus, Sharess, Gond, and Selune. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 12:36:58
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I've read Drizzt's books a LONG time ago, but I'll try to contribute with everything I remember... I recall that Drizzt was supposed to be sacrificed to Lolth, but his brother killed the older brother of his house, so she was satisfied. I don't remember Lolth's attitude towards the hero during his childhood and training, but afterwards, specially when Drizzt refused a priestess and later started being trouble to the matronal society (I think when he decided to fight Menzoberranzan directly), Lolth got a personal interest in him.
About Mielikki, I think canon sources stated that only Lolth was venerated in Menzoberranzan - maybe because other deities were not developed, but then again, it is plausible that she was the sole deity in the city, or the only one Drizzt knew at the time. So, if you read the trilogy about his coming to the surface, you will see that he believed all gods were like her, until Montolio presents him Mielikki and a different approach to life and nature. And it is well remembered that she is accepted in the elven pantheon, and her elven followers see her as an elven deity. Besides, gods can represent ideals, not linked to a race in particular.
As for Corellon's attitude, I see many people disappointed with his lack of action, mostly in the last novels in which he was depicted. I haven't read these books, but well, it seems contradictory with the lore about the elven greater deity you find in The Complete Book of Elves, Monster Mythology and Demihuman Deities, that say:
"Corellon is often referred to as 'the protector and preserver
of my life' by an elf in peril, reflecting his role as overseer
and guardian of the elven people (...) Corellon stands as an
ever-vigilant watcher over them. Only when it is time for them to
pass from the worlds he helped create does he renounce his
watchfulness to Sehanine." MM p. 21
"Corellon frequently wanders the elven lands and borders in
disguise (often in the form of one of the diminutive sylvan race),
observing the actions of priests and craftsfolk and defending
elven homelands from interlopers. Though his martial might is
swift and terrible, the soft-spoken Creator of the Elves is ever
humble and always open to learning something new, one of his
sources of might. He enjoys discovering new philosophies of
thought and new methods of action, even from mortals, and he
has a keen interest in other cultures." DD p. 122
But then again, maybe the books were written based on the final part of this tale of the Elfwar (possibly a legendary approach to the FR Crown Wars):
"Each elf thought he knew best, and tried to impose his view on
his brother (...) and the Spider Queen Lolth gained a foothold in
the hearts of many elves. (...) The Elfwar raged for decades (...)
Thousands of elves perished on both sides (...) The Drow were
prepared to win - but then the gods themselves intervened.
Corellon Larethian and his companions struck deep into the heart
of Drow territory. long and hard they fought, seeking the evil in
that land. Finally, Corellon Larethian came upon the dread Spider
Queen, and he attacked. (...) driving her deep into the earth.
With her defeat, the haze over the battlefield lifted, allowing the
bright light of teh sun to bathe the land in its healing rays.
The Drow turned their faces away from the sun's purification,
preferring instead their fallen goddess. They consciously chose the
shadows over light, and Corellon decreed that such treachery would
forever show upon their faces. it is for this reason that the skin
of the Drow is dark.
Corellon forced the evil elves into the rift where he had banished
Lolth the Spider. After the last Drow was driven underground, he
and his fellow gods abandoned the elves to their own devices,
preferring instead the plane of Arvandor." CBE p. 11
However, I think it was mentioning more of a physical abandonment, with their going to Arvandor. Otherwise, the previous passages would make no sense. In the Evermeet: Island of Elves novel, I remember that Corellon agreed in Eilistraee's banishment because she could foresee that one day there would be good Drow in the world - maybe not in this first generation who denied the light and the Seldarine, but in the future, for there was something of the original elven nature, probably a latent seed, in those who were banished.
That's it, vague memories and personal opinions... I truly hope it helped a bit. 
EDIT: typos and clarifications |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 13 Aug 2013 13:30:37 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 18:01:00
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@Drizztsmanchild: I would assume it was the good chaos, yes. By D&D standards, Corellon is a chaotic-good deity, and being the head of the elven pantheon, it would make sense that chaos is his domain. I don't play D&D much, though, so in this area, I'm not much help.
If you want more info on him, at least as far as novels go, might I suggest Elaine Cunningham's Evermeet: Island of Elves? That will give you the whole history of the elves. Richard Baker's Last Mythal trilogy is a good place for elf lore, too. And there are always sourcebooks like Demihuman Deities. Lady Penitent is good, too, but that has some loopholes that need to be filled in, but WotC hasn’t shown much interest in doing so.
@Barastir: yes, Eilistraee left Arvandor by her choice. Corellon even protested against it, but as you said, she foresaw a day when the drow would need to be given a new path, back to the light, so to speak. And because of this, I would argue that even Corellon, who banished the dark elves in the first place, saw that there might be a chance for them later on. But that’s just me.
What he did with the dark elves during the Crown Wars was…unfair, I’ll agree (and I like drow), but Lolth already had her clutches on plenty of them, so he acted out to save the rest of his people. He’s a god, so they do things on a large scale, anyway, and he’s not the only deity who has done something stupid that had major consequences for Faerun (like stealing the Tablets of Fate, or killing Mystra and causing the Spellplague).
I think he’s more passive than some of the other deities, and certainly more passive than Shevarash, who actively gets involved with his followers, but in almost everything I’ve read on Corellon, it states that he loves his people, and I think that if he felt they were seriously threatened, he’d do something about it. But again, as stated in the Last Mythal, he also encourages elves to do things for themselves, for the betterment of the race. I wish I could remember where in the trilogy that was stated, so I could quote it directly, but I wouldn’t know which book to look in, or where in that book it’s located.
And I’m rambling, but I’m his devout, so I’m naturally going to come to his defense, and I’ve come to realize there are some who don’t like him, so *shrugs* Again, Corellon taking Drizzt under his wing is unlikely, but not impossible. He is allied with Mielikki, so if she asked him for help in defending Drizzt against the Spider Bi-I mean Queen, then…maybe?
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Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 21:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
What he did with the dark elves during the Crown Wars was…unfair, I’ll agree (and I like drow), but Lolth already had her clutches on plenty of them, so he acted out to save the rest of his people.
Corellon didn't act to save his people (surely turning the drow into obsidian black people didn't make them less of a threat...), he acted to punish and, by doing so, he basically surrendered all the drow to Lolth.
The non Miyeritari didn't exclusively worship her and they were not in her clutches yet: their leaders were corrupted (Lolth sent her balor to do this), but this was true for the sun elves as well and only the Vyshaan payed the consequences (as it should have been for the Ilythiiri). The Miyeritari (what was left of them after the Dark Disaster) were mainly followers of Sehanine and Eilistraee AFAIK.
After seeing the Seldarine turning on them and after being punished for having used ''corrupted magic'' in a war where everyone did so, the dark elves obviouly sought attention somewhere else (and with Eilistraee severely weakened by the death of so many of her followers by aryvandaari hand, the only candidates close enough to them were Vhaeraun, Lolth and Ghaunadaur).
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he’s not the only deity who has done something stupid that had major consequences for Faerun
True. Some FR deities have been portrayed as reckless, incoherent and somewhat stupid creatures.
Maybe there are actually plans for Corellon to work to aid Drizzt during the Sundering, and maybe that will involve something big for the dark elves that Corellon is doing to make up for all the wrongs he did to those people, like a possible restoration of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun and the re-ignition of the fight for drow freedom (this time actually supported by the ''father of all elves'').
However I think this is extremely unlikely to happen. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 13 Aug 2013 21:17:15 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 21:38:12
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| I think this gets back to the debate as to whether the gods are/become what their followers think of/want them/need them to be. Did Corellon (and by extension, all of the Seldarine) treat them unfairly because they are just a bunch of jerks, or because it was the overall will of The People? Or, is there something deeper going on that we aren't yet privy to? Perhaps the question should be put to Ed as to why the Seldarine reacted as they did, though I suspect the answer will be NDA. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 22:06:03
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@Irenan: Mmm, I'll admit my Crown Wars knowledge is not that extensive. The Grand History of the Realms only provides so much detail, and it has been years since I've read Evermeet. Demihuman Deities didn't go into a whole lot of detail, either, at least if memory serves, so it sounds like you know more than I do. I'll give you credit for that, and now that I think about it, Corellon’s actions did give the drow to Lolth. However, I think she eventually would have gotten her hands on them, anyway, especially if she had corrupted their leaders. Corellon’s intentions may have been to punish, and by extension, save the rest of his people from corruption, but it backfired by Lolth gaining more followers. Even the best(?) intentions backfire sometimes. Banishing the drow could have been the god’s way of saying “don’t do this again”, aka a warning. Not a friendly warning, but like a said, gods do things on large scales.
Afterwards, IIRC from Grand History, after the Crown Wars, the Seldarine told the elves to assemble the Elven Court so something like the Wars doesn’t happen again. If not the Descent, then this move might have been Corellon’s (and the other Seldarine) way of saving the elves, so they wouldn’t slaughter each other, anymore. I think the gods were as tired of it as the elves, by the end.
He may however, have seen the chance for it to change, thanks to Eilistraee and given time. But, as you pointed out, that “time” is unlikely to happen, since Wizards has expressed very little interest in further the other drow deities. You and I are in agreement that having them only being concerned with the evil drow is highly disappointing. I was looking forward to a return of E and V. I could see Eilistraee possibly coming to Drizzt and asking him to help lead the drow. Heck, even Jarlaxle sees Drizzt as “the one who escaped”. He’s more likely to become a follower of Eilistraee than Corellon.
I still like Corellon as a deity though. I like Mask and Vhaeraun, and they’re evil-aligned. I was just as bummed about V’s death as I was of E’s, even though it was Eilistraee who was given the drow a greater opportunity. Vhaeraun was still a better option than his mother.
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Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2013 : 22:31:19
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@Irenan: Mmm, I'll admit my Crown Wars knowledge is not that extensive. The Grand History of the Realms only provides so much detail, and it has been years since I've read Evermeet. Demihuman Deities didn't go into a whole lot of detail, either, at least if memory serves, so it sounds like you know more than I do. I'll give you credit for that, and now that I think about it, Corellon’s actions did give the drow to Lolth. However, I think she eventually would have gotten her hands on them, anyway, especially if she had corrupted their leaders. Corellon’s intentions may have been to punish, and by extension, save the rest of his people from corruption, but it backfired by Lolth gaining more followers. Even the best(?) intentions backfire sometimes. Banishing the drow could have been the god’s way of saying “don’t do this again”, aka a warning. Not a friendly warning, but like a said, gods do things on large scales.
Afterwards, IIRC from Grand History, after the Crown Wars, the Seldarine told the elves to assemble the Elven Court so something like the Wars doesn’t happen again. If not the Descent, then this move might have been Corellon’s (and the other Seldarine) way of saving the elves, so they wouldn’t slaughter each other, anymore. I think the gods were as tired of it as the elves, by the end.
I get your point. Yeah, punishements are ways to say ''don't do this again'', but the Descent definitely was an overreaction.
Btw, Lost Empires of Faerun has good info about the Crown Wars, so do the pdf that the scribe Snowblood published on his/her DeviantArt account (Phasai, IIRC).
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I still like Corellon as a deity though. I like Mask and Vhaeraun, and they’re evil-aligned. I was just as bummed about V’s death as I was of E’s, even though it was Eilistraee who was given the drow a greater opportunity. Vhaeraun was still a better option than his mother.
I quite like Corellon too, that's one of the reasons why I feel strongly about how he was portrayed in this Crow Wars/Descent/LP matter.
And IMO Vhaeraun tries to give the drow a great opportunity too: like his sister he encourages them to be the shapers of their future, even tho their views on how the drow should affirm themselves differ quite a bit.
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I could see Eilistraee possibly coming to Drizzt and asking him to help lead the drow. Heck, even Jarlaxle sees Drizzt as “the one who escaped”. He’s more likely to become a follower of Eilistraee than Corellon.
Drizzt could be an inspiration for the drow, but his character doesn't strike me as lending itself to be that kind of leader. He's a rebel, but I see him more focused to a personal level rather than the kind of rebel that E or V and their followers are. This is coming from someone who has nothing but the very basic knowledge about Drizzt tho, so I may very well be wrong.
That's also one of the reasons why I don't see Corellon meddling in his affairs.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 13 Aug 2013 22:33:21 |
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So Would Corellon....... ?
