| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jan 2013 : 18:22:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ammag
I'd hate to see this art critique thread be derailed because of FR parallels to real life historical cultures. The northern barbarian is a stereotype.
It is but the difference is for every northern cacuassian barbarian we see, we see dozens of non-stereotypical caucassian artwork. Not so with other types of people |
 |
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2013 : 21:28:49
|
MT is right on this one, no one here is overreacting. I fully understand this is concept art and did not attribute any malice to the artist, art department, or participating creative talent involved in the production of the Turami bard piece.
However, this is the best stage to bring up the potential for such a perception. If this issue does not consider all the factors involved, we're starting the setting relaunch off on the wrong foot. There are real life connotations to address and as I pointed out before, lore issues involved in the composition of the image.
I may be wrong about the Turami. Ed Greenwood himself could come on here and tell us that's how he always pictured the Turami, and I would still ask him and the design team to reconsider based on the points brought up in previous posts.
As for the equally stereotype northern barbarians. This issue also came up in discussions I've read recently regarding Skyrim and other fantasy video games. Thing is, the northern barbarian concept is lionized, it's sort of a positive stereotype, an active role. The northern barbarian also has strong roots as a foundational pillar of the genre. It gets a bit of a pass for those reasons.
Razz's point is a very valid one, we haven't even seen many (any) images of iconic, adventuring Turami as described in the lore and we're already jumping to alternative images.
As for 3E art and the iconics in particular. Removing the Asian-looking monk stereotype actually resulted in no Asian-looking iconics as I recall. There was Naull the human wizard, but as the secondary wizard iconic she was far down at the bottom of the list as far as being featured in any art. Maybe Mitra looks sort of Asian, but as the secondary psion iconic of an already niche branch of D&D (psionics), again way down on the list.
Not saying a certain ethnicity must represent one of the big four classes, but this afterthought level of inclusiveness can come across as particularly half-hearted. If designers stuck to the base game as representative of European peoples and associated imagery, I would actually be equally fine supporting that as I would the more 'politically correct' or inclusive, culturally-sensitive route they chose. Especially since the result came off as only semi-culturally proficient despite their efforts. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2013 : 22:15:14
|
| Perhaps the goofy-looking Turami Bard artwork could be recycled into some product about Chult. Assuming Chult isn't an edition-crater. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 00:26:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Perhaps the goofy-looking Turami Bard artwork could be recycled into some product about Chult. Assuming Chult isn't an edition-crater.
The Turami bard artwork is not necessarily a waste. Since these digital paintings are created in layers, the artist could adjust a few layers and perhaps add a bit to fix the piece.
The composition doesn't work as a serious adventurer (when put in context with the other adventurer portraits), but put him in a painting as the drummer heading a column of ornately armored Turami warriors in a parade. That was my impression of the character when I first saw him, a 'civilian' parade or festival drummer. In that context the image works.
To adventurer-ify him, put him in some sensible light armor, replace the huge drums with more travel friendly versions, maybe add a backpack, or another instrument, or a secondary weapon (like a bow/crossbow) slung over his back.
Compare this rendering of the bard with the bard iconics of 3E, Devis and Gimble. Both may have instruments in their portraits, but their weapons are also featured prominently. They looked like they mean business.
For another example, take a look at the characters shown in this piece by the same artist . All the figures are shown in a more active portrayal. In the far left is a Turami woman in sensible armor and clothing, wielding a sword, and like her fellow adventurers, at the ready with the tools of their class.
|
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 21 Jan 2013 00:26:42 |
|
|
|
Ozreth
Learned Scribe
188 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 09:01:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I didn't react to it - thus far no-one here really did. We were just pointing out how others could possibly perceive it.
Suppose they came out with posters & cardboard displays for book and games stores for 5e's release (you know... like the great ones they had for 3e's release), and all the 'white people' looked like like heroes, and the two 'black people' looked like an entertainer (the Turami guy) and a thug/thief (a drow slinking about with dagger in-hand). How do you think the general (less-informed) public will perceive it?
These are things that need to be addressed before they DO become a problem. We aren't complaining (yet), we are trying to help.
Also, while I am on this subject, we need at least one non-super model heroine in the group. I don't want to see it go completely the other way (making them all 'butch' would be equally condescending), but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a fairly 'normal' looking female (who might be a bit on the chunky side) as one of the iconics. This isn't 1975, and 13 year old boys aren't the only ones playing this game anymore.
And I meant to address this in my last post - whatever you guys say about this art (especially the 'cartoony' comments), at least it doesn't look like Pathfinder. I HATE their covers (some of their inside art is quite good, but that cover art is a real turn-off for me). This art reminds me a lot of the Baldur's Gate/Neverwinter VG art, and for many folks that was their initiation to the Realms. They tried the 'new & improved' look in 4e, and I'd rather see 'boring' then more of that. 'Boring' means it looks just like what we expect, and thats NOT necessarily a bad thing.
Dammit this is one of the best posts I've ever read on the internet. I was nodding my head along to every single sentence and it was structured wonderfully. |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 09:29:43
|
I like the halflings and I think the Tarumi bard is fine. I like the idea of a bard with drums.
The female dwarf and the gnome look pretty cool and I'm not quite sure what the problem is supposed to be with the barbarians. There are pale skinned barbarians in the Realms, right?
The artist's take on the ogre mage is refreshing and new. I think the gnoll is the coolest monster of the bunch. It just looks real to me.
I'm not keen on the Ogre's axe: it's way too Final Fantasy huge (same with the Fire Giant's sword). That said, I think the frost giant is sized about right and it looks pretty cool. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 13:43:46
|
hmmm, the halflings heads are WAAYYY too big for their bodies (and their legs & feet should be bigger). Sun Elves aren't pale white... that would be moon elves. Wood elves should have a skin color more like the turami bard but more brownish than black (i.e. woody/acorny type color).
Too many of these things have these huge central bodies with petite little legs. Bugbears shouldn't look friendly. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 13:47:56
|
I think the issue with the barbarians is that they don't look very barbaric. 
I think a lot of us visualize the 'conan' archtype, and our Northman and Uthgardt aren't those - they are more along the lines of the Germanic model (like the goths).
Up around Icewind Dale we have that archtype - the Reghedman - so people can still play one of those. With all the years the North has become 'civilized' (sort of), we should have been picturing a more advanced barbarian anyway. Its not the arts fault, its our own preconceptions.
And Turmish always struck me as more 'Morrocan' then anything else, so the people should be dark, and have a bit of an Africanesque look to them, but thats as far as it should go. They have been a civilized nation along the Sea of Fallen Stars for many, many years - longer then several other countries. If anything, they should be similar to the type of cultures/settlements (Carthage) along North Africa during the Roman Empire, because the culture of the Vilhon Reach is very Mediterranean. Unfortunately, we don't really have a good idea of what those people looked or acted like (because the Roman culture dominated, and thats who made records of everything).
That leaves us with a modern version of North Africa, which is incorrect - FR never had Moorish influences.
I wouldn't mind seeing WotC go the same route as PF with some things (I like most of their goblinoids), but not everything. I think the 4e setting is too much like PF (was that intentional?) - just last night I was reading about Leng in Golarion (and the 4e team made a big deal about Thay becoming 'the Plateau of Leng'). The difference is, PF uses the actual (Lovecraftian) Leng, not some knock-off.
Never go halfway - that was one of 4e's biggest failures. They weren't committed to their own vision. Once you decide to go a certain route, make it the best thing you can - don't start back-peddling the moment internet folk start whining. If they have an entire model for their Turmish culture in-mind, and that guy is part of it, then fine... just so long as he isn't standing their alone with no explanation. Changes don't bother me - bad design does. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jan 2013 13:49:36 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 13:50:23
|
I don't know what you guys are complaining about. They all seem fine to me. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 14:07:02
|
| On the orcs thing, that would be great for gray orcs, but mountain orcs are noted as having more porcine faces, so I'd expect the nose to be more than just a slit in the face. The orc picture where they have a fairly normal nose to me should be right out the door. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 15:33:52
|
| What on earth is wrong with the Turami bard? The drums? What an over reaction... Also this is a fantasy game having appealing looking people portrayed is normal. I suspect good looking people being shown is based on what consumers want. |
Edited by - MrHedgehog on 21 Jan 2013 15:37:05 |
|
|
|
Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 21:34:18
|
| I see normal people all day. I want my D&D books to be different. |
|
|
|
Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 23:07:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
What on earth is wrong with the Turami bard? The drums? What an over reaction... Also this is a fantasy game having appealing looking people portrayed is normal. I suspect good looking people being shown is based on what consumers want.
Says the guy who's probably had his race portrayed in a multitude of genres and variety and won't ever understand the feeling of having their race portrayed over and over again as one stereotype after the next. 
If people want to keep arguing this point let's take it to a different thread and I'll be glad to do so. |
|
|
|
daarkknight
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 23:24:17
|
| According to comment on a post by Paul S. Kemp on his Facebook page, the concept art is "official." The art is by Claudio Pozas. |
"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant. |
Edited by - daarkknight on 21 Jan 2013 23:49:19 |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 01:53:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
What on earth is wrong with the Turami bard? The drums? What an over reaction... Also this is a fantasy game having appealing looking people portrayed is normal. I suspect good looking people being shown is based on what consumers want.
Says the guy who's probably had his race portrayed in a multitude of genres and variety and won't ever understand the feeling of having their race portrayed over and over again as one stereotype after the next.
a.) You have no idea what my race is
b.) What is YOUR race? Are you getting indignant on other peoples' behalf?
c.) All the pictures are stereotypes. What is wrong with DRUMS?
The description of the Turami bard:
quote:
We liked the idea of this bard character design because of the use of the drum instruments that isn't normally seen (if ever). Usually most bards are seen illustrated with stringed, or flute like instruments, so this was fun to do and fit really well with the description of the Turami culture.
|
|
|
|
skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 02:17:45
|
Forgive my ignorance, but what are those MUA that appear in the link??  |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 02:22:56
|
quote:
a.) You have no idea what my race is
Well, actually, I can tell from your picture. Looks like you're a shield dwarf. No wait, the light's kinda bad here - maybe you're a svirfneblin ... |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 02:58:08
|
I am a gnome! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
|
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 03:34:33
|
| Oops, sorry. I, uh, couldn't tell without the drums. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1624 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 04:32:43
|
Turmish Bard looks awesome and is my favourite piece aside from the Displacer beast. Turmish Culture is not based on European Culture, its based African Culture.
Its vaguely based on it, not a historical reproduction.
The Drums are awesome, in most RL mystical traditions use Drums, and that's true Globally. Drums are great for achieving altered states of conciousness.
I don't go for stupid racial steroetyping and the like, but some of you guys have taken PCness to goofy hieghts that undermining racial equality, by making it look like a joke.
Your not being helpful, just paraniod, learn to pick your battles better.
So much damage is done to good causes on the left by people who are overzelious.
As for a lack of a sword, not all Bard's use them, some use wands, some magical instruments as implements and so on.
Rock on Drummer Bard, Rock on Drummer Bard! |
|
|
|
Ammag
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 04:49:09
|
| He's actually got a sword on his side, and it looks like he's wearing ring mail. Drums as a bard instrument is such an awesome idea. I'd be a lot more inspired to fight if I had a good drummer by my side than some floppy-hatted Euro-fop with a lute. |
|
|
|
Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1624 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 05:00:25
|
| Dang right Ammag and take another look at the Turmish hero from one of the upcoming Sundering novels, he's a swordsman, and very different from the bard, yet retaining a obvious Turmishness, cultural connection. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 05:19:53
|
quote:
I'd be a lot more inspired to fight if I had a good drummer by my side than some floppy-hatted Euro-fop with a lute.
Although you can always use the pile of dead bards as cover when a fight's going badly. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 05:37:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Oops, sorry. I, uh, couldn't tell without the drums.
That's quite ignorant. Gnomes haven't been racially inclined towards bardery since the end of 3rd edition. Get with the times.
(I keed, I keed.)
More seriously, it's not that the Turami Bard is a big deal, but it does touch on more than one stereotypes a bit too on the nose to escape obvious notice, at least to me and several other scribes here it would appear. In a certain light, the image is actually hilarious in it's cultural ineptitude in the name of cultural representation.
Why is it silly? It's not any one thing, it's the combination of everything that brings to mind the unfortunate caricatures exploited in the "minstrel shows" of a century and a half ago. Using several stereotypes coupled with the silly expression (compare to most of the other adventurer portraits who range from serious to neutral) and the oversized, travel-impractical drums (looks like he's strapped them on for traveling), means the whole piece comes across as silly.
It's the stereotype of ethnic characters always depicted wearing stereotypical ethnic garb (in this case "African" clothing with colorful kente cloth type patterns), playing stereotypical ethnic instruments ("African" looking drums, 'cause they've got rhythm'). This despite Turmish not quite being Africa, unless that changed in 4E, but even then, Turmish is smack dab in the middle of the Mediterranean equivalent surrounded by mostly European inspired kingdoms. Turami names actually have an Italian/Mediterranean feel about them.
It's the stereotype of the laid-back, entertainer minority person. It's partly the ill-suited-to-adventure outfit, despite it being of cultural pride in Turmish to favor ornate armor. Bards can at least wear light armor, meaning ornate leather, or chain shirts, or maybe even mithril breastplates. This guy has his torso half exposed, cause it's hot in Afric- I mean Turmish, right? It's partly the doofy expression. It's the character's seeming innocuousness, he's the token character, the harmless minority, your buddy who's got your back, but won't get in the way of you being the hero.
It seems like WotC is trying too hard to be culturally proficient and failing at it, thus drawing more attention to itself in a self-conscious way. "Hey, we're diverse, we have colored peoples. Look they even have an appropriate culture. Kente cloth, all African-looking peoples wear that right?"
The look of the character, Anton Marivaldi, from one of the Sundering novels is cool. The Turami woman in the character group portrait amongst these concept pieces is cool. Noticed how those two and the Turami wizard on the cover of Complete Arcane had a purple theme going with their clothing, maybe that's a Turmish thing.
The iconic bards from 3e, they look like they mean serious business.
This guy, this is the goofy guy. He's the poor sap who gets stabbed to death by the evil archmage's bald, blue-lipped henchman so the main hero feels the dire loss and adverse consequences of defeat and thus has the impetus to seek revenge in the final battle and win against the villains. Oh wait, D&D has covered this archetype before.
Again, it's not a big problem, but it's a bit spot on despite best intentions. A few minor tweaks and these factor's will not all be in play at once. Even a background to put things into context and the piece doesn't draw attention to itself.
Backgrounds are what I really want for 5E Realms art to put things into context and I said as much and focused on it in my first post.
When other posters started bringing up the Turami, then I knew my initial impression of it wasn't wrong, other people saw the same thing I did. I'm not personally offended by it, I just noticed it, and found it funny it hit each stereotype criteria on the dot. |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 22 Jan 2013 05:47:30 |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 06:42:34
|
I am an illusionist/cleric, don't deny my true cultural heritage!
The portrayal of European-like, Middle eastern-like and East-Asian like characters are all stereotypical because that is what people want and expect from fantasy. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 06:53:14
|
| Those characters are really just offshoots of entire campaign subworlds ... Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, Maztica, Chult, Mulhorand ... generic versions of anachronistic pseudo-historical cultures. For that matter, even the "European" Realms Heartland is a generic milktoast version of how people now think people then would have lived. The entire planet is populated by stereotypes. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 22 Jan 2013 06:53:53 |
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 02:43:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
I'd be a lot more inspired to fight if I had a good drummer by my side than some floppy-hatted Euro-fop with a lute.
Although you can always use the pile of dead bards as cover when a fight's going badly.
Awesome flick. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 21:15:07
|
| The skinny limbs on the halflings and giants bug me a bit, but over all I have to say I like it. I'm a big fan of stylized art in my fantasy. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
Rory
Seeker
79 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 18:31:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think the issue with the barbarians is that they don't look very barbaric.
It’s a result of the quasi anime cartoonish look. In anime toughness is portrayed with a mean face, a pretentious pose, huge weapons or disproportionate muscle. We see both the pretentious pose and the disproportions with the Oni who reminds me a lot of Kung Fu Panda.
The thing I dislike the most about the art is how sated the monsters look. The Orc especially looks like he has enough coin to go to the gym invest in the best Roth milk protein and pump up his arms to flex for the ladies. He does not look at all athletic or quick with the stunted legs. He doesn’t look hungry or desperate. His threat is artificial.
|
|
|
|
xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 21:54:38
|
So, looking back on the wall of text this post turned out to be, I suppose it would be good to preface this with the fact that I take D&D art somewhat seriously. I'm not an artist, so you'll find no technical advice/critique. I'm just an admirer of stuff I like, and a critic of the rest... much like everyone else.
I like realism in fantasy art. I think it helps people take the adventure, their characters, and the environment of the campaign seriously when they see art that looks like it could be a photograph. I enjoy video games like Diablo, WoW, and Torchlight at least as much as anyone else, but they're no-brainer games. It's impossible to take the consequences of your actions seriously when everything is pixellated and you auto-rez at your last save point or whatever. D&D should not be that kind of game... or, at least, it shouldn't have to be that kind of game. When you want to have a slapstick session, you can do that... but when you want high drama and white-knuckled action, you should have that option too, and shiny cartoony art just naturally makes things more frivolous and happy-go-lucky. I think, if WotC were to commit to realistic art, it could play a big part in enabling D&D to be a more immersive (and therefore better by some standards) game than WoW or the others.
An offshoot of my desire for realistic art pulls me toward logical situations, and away from stupid ones. I am male, and I find chainmail bikinis titillating, but the ones I've seen are usually bad art... not because of the chainmail bikini but because of the situation portrayed. No intelligent woman would wear one into combat... which means any picture of a 90% nude woman in combat is by definition insulting toward women. Not cool. So, below, I go off a bit about a northern barbarian wearing inappropriate colors... the art itself is good in that case, but the context established by the caption makes it illogical and therein lies my only objection. In that particular case.
I know it seems like a small thing to have a problem with, but if you saw a picture of a truck... driving across the ocean... in a world where no magic or technology exists that allows that to happen on a regular basis... and it's not an optical illusion... it doesn't matter how well the truck and ocean are drawn, the overall picture is lame. The same thing is true for a nearly naked woman charging across an icy landscape to battle a red dragon by herself. Naked woman: cool. Icy landscape: cool. Red dragon: cool. Solo courage: cool. However, at least one of those elements does not fit in that picture. I don't want "dumbass" to be the first thing that comes to mind when I look at a picture of an NPC.
So that's the background for my comments. Ymmv.
Somewhere recently I drew a connection between the 4e Realms and WoW, which started out casually derisive and ended up being kinda alarmingly accurate. With the similarities in mind, and the pile of watercolors* that we've had in past editions, I'd really like to see 5e move decisively away from cartoons/anime and amateur work.**
Like some others, I prefer the halflings drawn as scaled-down humans, rather than top-heavy hobbits. Each race should have its own proportions, but none of them should like like the little people of Earth. If you have little people in your campaign, every human/demihuman race should include them. One way or the other, be fair about it.
It seems to me that more attention/creativity was given to the drawings of creatures than to the drawings of demihumans. Maybe somebody already said that. One example: the gnoll versus the female strongheart halfling. On the subject of the female strongheart halfling, she sticks out like a sore thumb as the only demihuman who is obviously not an adventurer. I'm not calling sexism or anything, but why is she crocheting a cap (which looks like it's sized for the cat) while her lightfoot counterpart is out snatching loot from skeletal kings? None of us are going to play Suzie Homemaker as a PC. Why does the lightfoot halfling female look like a human with her vertical dimension crunched down while leaving her horizontal dimension (except her too-puny legs/feet) human-sized? Really weird nonworking measurements in this one. Also, halfling rogues are cool and you should have one, but it's a stereotype so make sure your one rogue drawing is cool and all the other halflings are suggestive of other classes. I mention this because there's a lightfoot halfling rogue (not bad, but not cool either) on page 2, after the lightfoot halfling female on page 1 who appears to be a rogue, and the other three halflings who don't really speak to any class but could easily be rogues as well. Typecasting.
The feet on the gnome are much better. It's good to know that good feet are possible... the halflings need better feet too.
The fire giant is completely ridiculous. I like the hair color and the "cracking" effect on his hands. Other than that... ludicrous. His fist is bigger than his head. His hand, from wrist to fingertips, is longer than his calves from knee to toe. His forearms are equal or greater in diameter than his biceps. His chest is too big, and there's no way his pitiful little stick-legs would support the weight of that armor. Full plate comes with a helm, and the helm presents much of the visual impact of the armor, especially since you've made the armor pretty plain. He should be holding the helm in his free hand. And the sword... the sword... or should I say the nerf-sword-wrapped-in-foil? If this were a poster, on sale for $1, I would wrinkle my lip and leave it on the rack. Harsh? Not unnecessarily so. I'd pay $10 for a poster of the gnoll, if the text were cleaned off of it. The fire giant is too much like something out of Torchlight. The gnoll is still kinda cartoony, but it's much better art.
I'd really like to complain about the troll, but then I remember the noses on the old troll drawings and I have to let this one pass as a big improvement. To explain the troll's natural armor stat, I'd like to see either (1) noticeably pebbly skin, with the classic warts re-interpreted as hard stone-like knobs (small, like the ones here, not huge) growing sporadically across their shoulders and backs, or (2) rubbery textureless skin with finger-length "skin tags" peppering the outer surfaces of their arms, legs, and back like little forests. This rendition seems to combine the rubbery skin with the knobs, and it's too smooth-looking. But the nose is better, so thanks for that.
The wight is interesting, especially the stripes on its shoulders and the possibly painted face. War paint? A military organization of wights? I'm listening. This is what art should do... get our attention in some way. If the best thing the picture has going for it is the colors (strongheart halfling male) or if the color isn't even that good (northland barbarian female) then the picture isn't inspiring... and therefore isn't worth $$. The reason I say the color is bad for the barbarian girl is that a woman doesn't reach her 20 winters or so by failing Camouflage 101. Incidentally, the proportions on this particular drawing are really pretty great; she's very believable... she just needs to be wearing predominantly greens and whites, with a mix of browns that depends on the season. Orange/yellow and white will never be in the natural environment at the same time.
I don't have a huge problem with the turami bard, but he does kinda look like a "token black guy" and I can easily see some folks taking issue with that. Besides, wearing a huge drum on your back while playing another one isn't... ideal. Whether he's in combat or entertaining an invisible crowd, he'd be smart and take the big drum off so that he has the flexibility to keep things low-key or really pound the drum, depending on the evolving situation. On a positive note, that's a decent job with the braids. This guy should probably be noted as an exception to my observation about not as much time/effort being spent on the non-monsters; there's a lot of detail here, and it does look good.
I like version 2 of the owlbear a lot; version 1 just looks runty. Owlbears are supposed be terrifying.
I am pleased that effort is being taken to make sure that the kuo-toa don't come out looking like murlocs. No sarcasm; I like that part. Also, the color choice seems appropriate here; it looks like a bipedal fishfaced ickything from the deeps... which is exactly what it should look like. The lack of exciting colors in this pic will be balanced by more colorful pics around it in the MM.
Aside: WotC, please go back to the loose-leaf Monstrous Compendium format. It would do so much to restore my faith in your savvy.
With each pic I look at, I'm agreeing with the comments (on dA) that the axes are oversized. They are, and the fire giant's sword too. Then I get to the shield dwarf fighter at the end of page 2, and all I can say is "now you're just being an ass." Realistically, though, the dwarf's hammer is probably about right, especially for a 1h weapon. The shield dwarf male's 2h warhammer is also good... for a dwarf. The axes are all stupidly huge.
Ya know what'd be cool for the wraith? A face that looks like a human/demihuman normally looks in middle age. I like the glowing hair, but I'm not a fan of the legs... regardless of the circumstances of her death, she loses a whole lot of her potential fright factor when the first thing I think of is "I wonder how many years she's been "holding it."
Overall: better than I could do, but more realism less cartoony please, and pay attention to the logic of the context.
Notes:
* Nothing wrong with watercolors; amazing things can be done with watercolors. The watercolor of past editions that I'm referring to, though, has not been amazing.
** Even an amateur is a better artist than I am; I freely admit it. But I also don't charge anyone money to look at anything I draw. The storm giant is amateurish; the head is too small, the legs are too short and too skinny, the arms are too long, the chest is too broad, and nobody would forge a sword that looks that unwieldy and weak. I pick on the storm giant because I think it's the biggest collection of faults; by comparison the others (except the fire giant) are much better. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 25 Jan 2013 22:00:16 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Concept art for 5th ed Forgotten Realms
