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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 17:58:38
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Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:09:49
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| -People have talked about it, but I have to say, I really don't like the idea of specialization like that, in terms of magic. Me, personally, I wouldn't have a deity of magic, period. If you are using a deity to be the keeper of magic and so on, I think it works best with more or less one entity being the gatekeeper of everything. Guys like Velsharoon, Savras, Leira, Azuth, I don't like them as deities so much as I like them maybe as 'saints', or something to that effect- people who other magicians look up to and want to emulate, because they were so good at what they did (Velsharoon being necromancy, Savras divination, Leira illusion, maybe Azuth as being all around powerful). I just generally don't like gods and goddesses who are semi or fully subservient/dependent on another deity, since there is little or no portfolio differentiation and a lot of overlap in both portfolios and relations- Selvatarm and Lolth, as another example. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:17:48
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Overlap can hardly be avoided. So long as the deities mostly stick to their given/acquired portfolio, then for me it's fine.
Or maybe I simply don't like the idea that there's only one being who controls/regulates the most potent source of power in the wolrd. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 26 Feb 2012 18:19:34 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:20:47
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If we are going to be splitting up the portfolio of Magic into subdivision then I nominate Szass Tam to be the God of Necromancy  |
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 26 Feb 2012 18:21:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:24:17
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
If we are going to be splitting up the portfolio of Magic into subdivision then I nominate Szass Tam to be the God of Necromancy
We already have one, Velsharoon. And he and Zassy don't get along. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:28:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Overlap can hardly be avoided.
-The degree of overlap, then. Vhaeraun and Selvatarm both have as their followers male Drow. As written, Vhaeraun can exist independently of Lolth; Selvatarm cannot. Given that she dominates him so, and that her clergy dominates his clergy, there is no need for him to be a deity in his own right, as opposed to some sort of special servitor of Lolth.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or maybe I simply don't like the idea that there's only one being who controls/regulates the most potent source of power in the wolrd.
-I don't like it, either. Not that Mystra/Mystryl ever really was particularly proactive about regulating who was able to access magic- offhand, she did only do that a singular time- but I don't like the idea that someone can. I like the Weave to simply be. A deity or any other regulatory entity need not be.
-Going by canon, and the fact that it is a bit more 'sentient', I don't think breaking it up into different schools helps much, either. Plus, there are too many technicalities that can make things all crazy: Is there a Shadow Weave deity, a Pluma Magic deity, a Hishna Magic deity, and so on... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 26 Feb 2012 18:29:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:28:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Having nine deities for magic is just too much... And even nine might not be enough, anyway, if you're breaking it down like that. What about elementalist or wild magic? What about table or pluma magic? What about the Shadow Weave?
Plus, breaking it down like that doesn't address some of the magical anomalies of the Realms, like incantatrices, spellfire flingers, wild talents, etc.
Nope, one is to me the right number.
At least with Savras, you've got other, non-magical forms of divination. And if Vellie picked up undeath, he'd not be so specialized. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
If we are going to be splitting up the portfolio of Magic into subdivision then I nominate Szass Tam to be the God of Necromancy
LOL, why do you think Szass got all riled up and went nutso on Thay? He was jealous of his old rival that just came out of nowhere and captured the brass ring. Remember, Velsharoon was an EX-red wizard who was around before Thay was created (and probably helped in its formation).
Naturally, Velsharoon playing pranks on his old rival once he was a god, like releasing all the undead controlling spells on his servants at the most inopportune time at that party.... well that didn't help.... but of course, that's state secrets and we're not supposed to talk about it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:44:31
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
If we are going to be splitting up the portfolio of Magic into subdivision then I nominate Szass Tam to be the God of Necromancy
I'd like him to remain where he is now...for a long time. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
If we are going to be splitting up the portfolio of Magic into subdivision then I nominate Szass Tam to be the God of Necromancy
We already have one, Velsharoon. And he and Zassy don't get along.
Then he should kill or subsume Velshy. But I don't like to see that soon. I'm happy where Szass Tam is right now. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Overlap can hardly be avoided.
-The degree of overlap, then. Vhaeraun and Selvatarm both have as their followers male Drow. As written, Vhaeraun can exist independently of Lolth; Selvatarm cannot. Given that she dominates him so, and that her clergy dominates his clergy, there is no need for him to be a deity in his own right, as opposed to some sort of special servitor of Lolth.
He's like what Azuth is to Mystra. Gods war in regular basis. And gaining allies is difficult. Having servants is far easier.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or maybe I simply don't like the idea that there's only one being who controls/regulates the most potent source of power in the wolrd.
-I don't like it, either. Not that Mystra/Mystryl ever really was particularly proactive about regulating who was able to access magic- offhand, she did only do that a singular time- but I don't like the idea that someone can. I like the Weave to simply be. A deity or any other regulatory entity need not be.
-Going by canon, and the fact that it is a bit more 'sentient', I don't think breaking it up into different schools helps much, either. Plus, there are too many technicalities that can make things all crazy: Is there a Shadow Weave deity, a Pluma Magic deity, a Hishna Magic deity, and so on...
I'll leave the Shadow Weave to Shar. As to other forms of magic, yes, they could be controlled by some deities, though I prefer them to be hidden, their identities only known to Ao and him alone. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 18:55:29
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Exarchs (demi-powers) for each school might work, but I wouldn't want to see a full-fledged deity for each.
And this subject has been discussed at length before. A cool idea, but a mechanical nightmare. It might be an extremely detailed setting, but it also still needs to be a game. Sometimes people forget that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2012 18:55:54 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Having nine deities for magic is just too much... And even nine might not be enough, anyway, if you're breaking it down like that. What about elementalist or wild magic? What about table or pluma magic? What about the Shadow Weave?
Plus, breaking it down like that doesn't address some of the magical anomalies of the Realms, like incantatrices, spellfire flingers, wild talents, etc.
Nope, one is to me the right number.
At least with Savras, you've got other, non-magical forms of divination. And if Vellie picked up undeath, he'd not be so specialized.
The existence of Savras and Velsharoon (and even Auppenser, if you consider Psionics a type of magic) is manifestation enough that having multiple deities of magic can work out fine.
As I pointed out above, I'd like the gods of the other forms of magic to be known only to Ao. The eight or nine would the ones known to gods and mortals alike. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:09:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
If we are going to be splitting up the portfolio of Magic into subdivision then I nominate Szass Tam to be the God of Necromancy
LOL, why do you think Szass got all riled up and went nutso on Thay? He was jealous of his old rival that just came out of nowhere and captured the brass ring. Remember, Velsharoon was an EX-red wizard who was around before Thay was created (and probably helped in its formation).
Velsharoon's ambition was so tiny compared to Szass Tam's. And that's probably why the latter only came close to success and never really got it.
As many people say, "Think big, but start small." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-People have talked about it, but I have to say, I really don't like the idea of specialization like that, in terms of magic. Me, personally, I wouldn't have a deity of magic, period. If you are using a deity to be the keeper of magic and so on, I think it works best with more or less one entity being the gatekeeper of everything. Guys like Velsharoon, Savras, Leira, Azuth, I don't like them as deities so much as I like them maybe as 'saints', or something to that effect- people who other magicians look up to and want to emulate, because they were so good at what they did (Velsharoon being necromancy, Savras divination, Leira illusion, maybe Azuth as being all around powerful). I just generally don't like gods and goddesses who are semi or fully subservient/dependent on another deity, since there is little or no portfolio differentiation and a lot of overlap in both portfolios and relations- Selvatarm and Lolth, as another example.
In this instance, I think there could be more functional use. Yes, they all serve Mystra (oh wait, but some also serve Shar... and in the case of Malyk, he may be using the magic of the elements to circumvent subservience to Mystra). Just as a for instance, Mystra generally wants to promote magic use. However, someone like Velsharoon might see someone using necromantic magic towards ends that actually lessen the power of necromancy (maybe they use undead to destroy a temple dedicated to unlife). Velsharoon then decides to be fickle and say turns all the undead in the person's service mindless or something worse to punish them. Similar things might happen with other gods (for instance, someone uses a divination to find a powerful scrying device used by their enemy and then destroys said device... makes Savras mad, so he sends the person visions of dying... only they're visions of someone else dying and the person doesn't know it). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He's like what Azuth is to Mystra. Gods war in regular basis. And gaining allies is difficult. Having servants is far easier.
-And having servants that are every bit as divine as you is redundant and unnecessary, especially when there is almost no degree of independence whatsoever.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'll leave the Shadow Weave to Shar. As to other forms of magic, yes, they could be controlled by some deities, though I prefer them to be hidden, their identities only known to Ao and him alone.
-That'd very quickly turn into a statistical nightmare. Also, in effect, wouldn't deities controlling lesser practiced forms of magic/certain subschools but being hidden to all be what we have now? So, why bother? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:27:53
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
In this instance, I think there could be more functional use. Yes, they all serve Mystra...
Personally, I wouldn't want the deities of each school to serve Mystra. I want Mystra to be their equal. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12084 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:30:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Having nine deities for magic is just too much... And even nine might not be enough, anyway, if you're breaking it down like that. What about elementalist or wild magic? What about table or pluma magic? What about the Shadow Weave?
Plus, breaking it down like that doesn't address some of the magical anomalies of the Realms, like incantatrices, spellfire flingers, wild talents, etc.
Nope, one is to me the right number.
At least with Savras, you've got other, non-magical forms of divination. And if Vellie picked up undeath, he'd not be so specialized.
To each their own. I wouldn't have a problem with a deity covering pluma and hishna magics. Shar has the shadow weave, but then maybe Leira can also access it. What about shadowcasters who draw power from the plane of shadow? What about a god over those who use the ancient rune magic? What about truenamers (does Oghma and Deneir have some control here?)? As I also noted, maybe a couple gods might try their hand at fighting over controlling incarnum magic. Maybe Velsharoon's followers seek to bring knowledge of binding back to the world so that he can gain followers.
Maybe just maybe, these lesser deities can even stop Mystra's stranglehold on magic. For instance, if Mystra says "though shall not access the weave necromancer".... maybe Velsharoon can turn around and "uncap" the necromancer such that he could ONLY memorize necromancy spells in defiance of Mystra.... maybe Azuth can give the wizard access to all his spells. It doesn't lessen Mystra's power over much (after all, how many gods are going to fight each other over some mortal being punished), but it does give her the need to work with others at least somewhat. I can see Ao throwing that in there just so he wouldn't have to watch her as closely (lord knows an Overgod could better spend his time improving his golf game, you know). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 19:34:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He's like what Azuth is to Mystra. Gods war in regular basis. And gaining allies is difficult. Having servants is far easier.
-And having servants that are every bit as divine as you is redundant and unnecessary, especially when there is almost no degree of independence whatsoever.
Having no freedom is precisely the point of servitude.
Besides, they're hardly redundant---two heads is usually better than one.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'll leave the Shadow Weave to Shar. As to other forms of magic, yes, they could be controlled by some deities, though I prefer them to be hidden, their identities only known to Ao and him alone.
-That'd very quickly turn into a statistical nightmare. Also, in effect, wouldn't deities controlling lesser practiced forms of magic/certain subschools but being hidden to all be what we have now? So, why bother?
It'd be a handy explanation as to why such forms of magic, despite the very few people who practice them, still exist and remain strong. It's like having Ao himself. Most mortals don't know of his existence, and thus don't know that the reason no god ever becomes more powerful than the others is because there's already an Overgod who's taken that throne. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:25:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Having nine deities for magic is just too much... And even nine might not be enough, anyway, if you're breaking it down like that. What about elementalist or wild magic? What about table or pluma magic? What about the Shadow Weave?
Plus, breaking it down like that doesn't address some of the magical anomalies of the Realms, like incantatrices, spellfire flingers, wild talents, etc.
Nope, one is to me the right number.
At least with Savras, you've got other, non-magical forms of divination. And if Vellie picked up undeath, he'd not be so specialized.
To each their own. I wouldn't have a problem with a deity covering pluma and hishna magics. Shar has the shadow weave, but then maybe Leira can also access it. What about shadowcasters who draw power from the plane of shadow? What about a god over those who use the ancient rune magic? What about truenamers (does Oghma and Deneir have some control here?)? As I also noted, maybe a couple gods might try their hand at fighting over controlling incarnum magic. Maybe Velsharoon's followers seek to bring knowledge of binding back to the world so that he can gain followers.
Maybe just maybe, these lesser deities can even stop Mystra's stranglehold on magic. For instance, if Mystra says "though shall not access the weave necromancer".... maybe Velsharoon can turn around and "uncap" the necromancer such that he could ONLY memorize necromancy spells in defiance of Mystra.... maybe Azuth can give the wizard access to all his spells. It doesn't lessen Mystra's power over much (after all, how many gods are going to fight each other over some mortal being punished), but it does give her the need to work with others at least somewhat. I can see Ao throwing that in there just so he wouldn't have to watch her as closely (lord knows an Overgod could better spend his time improving his golf game, you know).
What's the point of a deity of magic if they can't have a stranglehold on it? That's what having a portfolio is about -- the deity controls that thing, and they have a stranglehold on it. Lathander can keep the sun from rising somewhere, if he wants, and Chauntea can keep things from growing in a place if she wants. That's because that's what they cover. I don't see anyone complaining about that.
Deities who don't have total control of their portfolios lose those portfolios to someone who will have total control of them.
Either we have deities who have total control of their portfolios, or we don't bother with deities at all. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 22:29:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Having nine deities for magic is just too much... And even nine might not be enough, anyway, if you're breaking it down like that. What about elementalist or wild magic? What about table or pluma magic? What about the Shadow Weave?
Plus, breaking it down like that doesn't address some of the magical anomalies of the Realms, like incantatrices, spellfire flingers, wild talents, etc.
Nope, one is to me the right number.
At least with Savras, you've got other, non-magical forms of divination. And if Vellie picked up undeath, he'd not be so specialized.
The existence of Savras and Velsharoon (and even Auppenser, if you consider Psionics a type of magic) is manifestation enough that having multiple deities of magic can work out fine.
As I pointed out above, I'd like the gods of the other forms of magic to be known only to Ao. The eight or nine would the ones known to gods and mortals alike.
It does not show that... You're proposing at least nine (or even as many as 17) deities where we have 2 or 3. Savras has divination, sure, but not just magical divination. And Velsharoon, who also covers liches, wouldn't be a deity of anything without Talos's help -- Vellie allied with Mystra to keep from being wasted by Talos.
So neither one is the same as a deity covering just one aspect of magic, and only that one aspect. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Feb 2012 22:30:46 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
I'm not sure this would work. Not every school of magic enjoys the same level of popularity or use in the Realms. Some are certainly more prominent than others, while the remaining few schools are overlooked in favour of the greater power offered by the more popular schools.
The only way I could see this working, is to still have Mystra -- or, perhaps, expand Azuth's role somewhat -- by establishing them as the "Administrator of the Deities of the Magic Schools." Mystra and/or Azuth still retains a greater deity status, and oversees the roles of the other school-based deities of magic by ensuring they all have equal representation and purpose. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Overlap can hardly be avoided. So long as the deities mostly stick to their given/acquired portfolio, then for me it's fine.
Or maybe I simply don't like the idea that there's only one being who controls/regulates the most potent source of power in the wolrd.
Which only reinforces my idea about still having an overall deity of magic to administer how the deities run their perspective portfolios of schooled magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Krynn's three deities are intimately tied to the history of the setting, and, overall, the alignment of the three branches of the Wizards of High Sorcery.
Interestingly, certain schools are specifically allowed to each of the three branches, while being denied to others. Necromancy, for example, is the province of the Black Robes, but cannot be learned by those of the White Robes.
I could see this set-up similarly working in the Realms. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 00:14:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Exarchs (demi-powers) for each school might work, but I wouldn't want to see a full-fledged deity for each.
Oooo! I like this idea.
Perhaps the Exarchs were established by Ao after the death of Mystra during the Spellplague. As a sort of temporary-fallback plan to ensure a possible recovery of Mystra later.
While it might be too easy to say that certain Chosen -- each possessing a portion of Mystra's essence -- should ascend to the roles of specific Exarchs of the schools of magic, perhaps they would be required to both train and sanction those selected to administrate each school of magic until such time as Mystra and the Weave can be reconstituted and the overall operation of magic restored to the Goddess of Mysteries.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:04:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Krynn's three deities are intimately tied to the history of the setting, and, overall, the alignment of the three branches of the Wizards of High Sorcery.
Interestingly, certain schools are specifically allowed to each of the three branches, while being denied to others. Necromancy, for example, is the province of the Black Robes, but cannot be learned by those of the White Robes.
I could see this set-up similarly working in the Realms.
If having multiple deities could work in one setting, why not in another? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:12:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Sleyvas's post about Azuth and Velsharoon in Wooly's thread had me thinking... To de-empower Mystra, why not have a deity for every school of magic, allowing them to access specific parts of the Weave? Mystra would be the Goddess of Abjuration.
Meh, I'd rather have either one deity, or three, like Krynn -- and my preference is for one.
Krynn's three deities are intimately tied to the history of the setting, and, overall, the alignment of the three branches of the Wizards of High Sorcery.
Interestingly, certain schools are specifically allowed to each of the three branches, while being denied to others. Necromancy, for example, is the province of the Black Robes, but cannot be learned by those of the White Robes.
I could see this set-up similarly working in the Realms.
If having multiple deities could work in one setting, why not in another?
Because the pantheon of Krynn is very different to that of the Realms. And, also, because the multiple-deities of magic approach in DRAGONLANCE doesn't work in exactly the same way you've proposed here.
As I said earlier, it's more about the divisions of alignment -- a deity of good magic [and those associated schools], a deity of neutral magic [which shares a little of both good and evil, and schools without much of either, like divination], and a deity of evil magic [which largely focuses on the schools of necromancy and summoning/conjuration for enslavement and such]. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:24:46
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Still, I fail to see how that invalidates my point. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 01:37:37
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I'm not saying it invalidates your idea... just that it's somewhat more difficult to implement. The Krynnish example is an easier system, because it divides, largely, by three, rather than the increased numbers of magic schools. Certain schools are still sitting side-by-side in the DRAGONLANCE system of magic. They aren't wholly and individually divided, as you've proposed for the Realms system.
And I'll note that even with just three deities, divine complications regularly arise... especially when branches of magic overlap. Now, can you imagine what those complications would be like when you've got more than just three deities administering the use of a particular school of magic?
[Which is, again, why I think an overseer/greater deity of magic would still be needed.] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 02:02:18
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Anything is possible, if you have the right people to do it. I must admit, that is a daunting task, and a complicated one as well. But still feasible.
Savras (Divination), Leira (Illusion), Velsharoon (Necromancy), Shar (Shadow Magic) and Mystra (Abjuration) could take those individual mantles. Then have some aspects of existing greater deities to take over the rest. The aspects of Talos and Selune could have Evocation and Enchantment respectively. Then give Conjuration and Transmutation to some upstart deities. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 03:11:25
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Transmutation is a very specific and particular school of magic. I can't see just any willy-nilly upstart deity being responsible for it.
From my own view, each of these schools would require a deity who is already established with some element of the magic they are responsible for -- in other words, their primary portfolios should probably reflect some aspect of the school of magic they would champion.. Velsharoon is an easy example for necromancy. Savras, or even Oghma, and, perhaps, to a lesser extent, Deneir, would be appropriate for Divination, given the importance of knowledge and foresight in each of their portfolios.
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Deities of Magic
