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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:14:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It's not released yet. So I don't see why it should be included.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:34:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Need to add 5E to the poll...
Hmm... so I was only off by 5 months. Guess they didn't want to announce it at GenCon like they did 4E. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Need to add 5E to the poll...
Hmm... so I was only off by 5 months. Guess they didn't want to announce it at GenCon like they did 4E.
The news was already out, just not confirmed... Perhaps they're hoping to build some hype, going into Gen Con... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:58:28
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WotC has announced it on their site. From what I understand they already have a rough draft of the rules...
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 09 Jan 2012 14:59:07 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:16:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
This poll would likely produce very different results on the Wizards boards.
Just like politics, it's all in where you get your samples from. Candlekeep is decidedly against content from 1470 DR+ (see, I didn't use an edition!  ). This isn't to say everyone that visits here thinks the same--because they don't. But the overall negative demeanor towards 1470 DR+ is boldly contrasted against content prior.
Which is, unfortunately, all very true -- despite both my and Wooly efforts to ensure a concerted and respectful approach to the post-Spellplague material here at Candlekeep.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 11:15:50
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| I wouldn't expect 5e until at least 2013. There's no way it's coming out this year at all. It may even take until 2014--which will mark the 40th anniversary of the game. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 12:22:49
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| I project, at earliest, a 2013 launch in the summer months (May, June, July) or 2014 which has more significance. If it's 2014, that would've given 6 years to 4th Edition, not horribly by any means. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 12:37:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I project, at earliest, a 2013 launch in the summer months (May, June, July) or 2014 which has more significance. If it's 2014, that would've given 6 years to 4th Edition, not horribly by any means.
I suspect that they need corporate results before the end of this year, perhaps timed for a pre-Thanksgiving launch. Having a year-long playtest would be interesting, but I don't think they could stretch out a playtest longer than that. Also, showing an upswing in sales just before xmas might save a lot of people from the usual December pink slips, if you know what I mean.
I'd bet they have something else in mind for 2014, to keep the momentum high with sales of 5E.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 13:05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I suspect that they need corporate results before the end of this year, perhaps timed for a pre-Thanksgiving launch. Having a year-long playtest would be interesting, but I don't think they could stretch out a playtest longer than that. Also, showing an upswing in sales just before xmas might save a lot of people from the usual December pink slips, if you know what I mean.
I'd bet they have something else in mind for 2014, to keep the momentum high with sales of 5E.
I dunno, to playtest (which I hear rumored to start in April) to final decisions to printing to release in less than a year would be really really difficult to pull off. That sort of rushed timeline is sure to make a mess of things and I feel would probably hinder the production of a great RPG.
If they do playtesting right, a few months with some more months of in-house playtesting, tweaking, and discussing. THEN get to the finialized product and publication....I don't see how this could be accomplished with much success before the beginning of the 2nd Quarter of 2013 at the earliest.
They could be doing a lot of stuff 5E up to that point like 4E (but lets hope with less snark and "this is WAY better than what your playing now" message (no matter how correct I believed they were).
Only time will tell. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 13:54:50
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Agreed, I hope they do far better marketing on this, whatever it turns out to be.
For sure, it's lots of guesswork until we get some real information about what they've prepared. Did they say they were going to have some playtesting at D&D Experience? When is that coming up?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2012 : 15:48:20
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| 2E and 3E both are near and dear to me. In general, I like the 3E rules more. However, I wasn't particularly fond of the direction they went with the red wizard class in 3.5, comparing them against similar prestige classes who also got circle magic.... I did like in 3rd edition that there were two different red wizard kits (one where you were a focused specialist in one class, one where you became a specialist in 2 classes) and I wish they would have made the prestige class give more allowances like that. Ever since dreams of the red wizards, there were rumors of some mages who had mastered more than one school of specialization. That plus the red wizards circle were always described as a kind of battlefield solution and the circle magic rules were essentially something you did as preparation work. But that's nitpicking a bit. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 19:23:29
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| The printing of the books alone means this won't be a 2012 release. Amazon would have to contain a holder and I don't see any there. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 19:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
There is really no right or wrong answer, though this sort of debate has the possibility to re-open the lines of negativity between the two aspects of the Realms.
Coming from an avid 4E fan and an all-around Realms enthusiast, it hasn't been easy coming to a place with a lot of negativity for something you love because the two (rules/setting) are so intricately intertwined. But the Mods have done an excellent job of making this place much MUCH better in terms of understanding and live-and-let-live attitudes between the peoples here.
It's been a pretty long while since I saw inflammatory, insensitive, or down right rude comments from either Grognards (is there a more P.C term for anit-4E people?) and 4vengers alike. It's been relatively peaceful, each side accepting that there are like and dislikes and leaving it at that.
I agree on all counts, Diffan. I consider the term "grognard" to be a badge of honour, much as I do the term "geek". 
I would like to think that the anti-4E sentiment has died down in the last year simply because people had come to accept it and move on, but part of me suspects that my absence from the Keep for most of the past year had something to do with it too (edit: or is that my ego talking?). It was the announcement of D&D Next that brought me back to CK, and I'm trying to thin out my trollish blood going forward in the hopes that the new edition of both the game and the Realms will be something that brings all fans back on the same side. I suspect my hopes are a bit high, but we'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to (hopefully) being involved in the playtest.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Actually Diffan, I'm of the opinion that you (foremost among the small number of 4E-enthusiast scribes) have been more influential in changing these attitudes here than you're aware. I've witnessed your example turn edition hostility into edition tolerance, even into edition curiosity. The only tools the mods have which you don't are sledgehammers and padlocks, and these generally aren't well suited for the sort construction you've accomplished. I vote +1 to give you some sort of "4E Pride" medal, lol.
I agree... this is the only FR/D&D board where I do more than lurk, and I saw a whole lot of hostility on the WotC boards (nearly all of it pro-4E and anti-Realms, and no, I'm not claiming the two are the same... although even a year ago, I probably would have done). Here, we had much the reverse reaction, and I played no small part in it, for which, even though I've apologized in other scrolls, I am sorry. Anyway, I second Ayrik's vote; +1. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 19:37:53 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 19:59:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
[brI would like to think that the anti-4E sentiment has died down in the last year simply because people had come to accept it and move on, but part of me suspects that my absence from the Keep for most of the past year had something to do with it too (edit: or is that my ego talking?).
Actually, from what I've seen, the die-down in the anti-4E sentiment has been caused in large part by some of those most vociferous scribes falling silent -- many have migrated on to other sites, and I know that some fell silent because it was easier than continuing to maintain their negative stance. I should like to think that Sage and I coming down hard on people disrupting pro-4E threads was also a factor. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 21:13:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I agree on all counts, Diffan. I consider the term "grognard" to be a badge of honour, much as I do the term "geek".
I would like to think that the anti-4E sentiment has died down in the last year simply because people had come to accept it and move on, but part of me suspects that my absence from the Keep for most of the past year had something to do with it too (edit: or is that my ego talking?). It was the announcement of D&D Next that brought me back to CK, and I'm trying to thin out my trollish blood going forward in the hopes that the new edition of both the game and the Realms will be something that brings all fans back on the same side. I suspect my hopes are a bit high, but we'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to (hopefully) being involved in the playtest.
I too am looking to be involved with the Playtest, and espically after they said it wouldn't contain an NDA, so that'll make for some good discussions. And I think the work of the Mods have been a good reason things are more civil around here.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I agree... this is the only FR/D&D board where I do more than lurk, and I saw a whole lot of hostility on the WotC boards (nearly all of it pro-4E and anti-Realms, and no, I'm not claiming the two are the same... although even a year ago, I probably would have done). Here, we had much the reverse reaction, and I played no small part in it, for which, even though I've apologized in other scrolls, I am sorry. Anyway, I second Ayrik's vote; +1.
Your kind words are much appreciated. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, from what I've seen, the die-down in the anti-4E sentiment has been caused in large part by some of those most vociferous scribes falling silent -- many have migrated on to other sites, and I know that some fell silent because it was easier than continuing to maintain their negative stance. I should like to think that Sage and I coming down hard on people disrupting pro-4E threads was also a factor.
Agree as well. Good job and thanks. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 22:35:25
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| The 2e Realms, it isn't even close though I played more 3.5e rules I always fall back on 2e lore. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 11:08:20
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| I like 4e because i think that the world is far more interesting with the chaotic events going on.However i feel that they have gone overboard with the "bleakness" thing but nonetheless it by far the most enjoyable setting. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 15:11:45
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The chaotic events ARE a great time to adventure in.
Too bad they set the setting a century later. 
Enter "The Age of Boredom".
We already had a Barrens of Doom & Despair. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 23:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The chaotic events ARE a great time to adventure in.
Too bad they set the setting a century later.
Enter "The Age of Boredom".
We already had a Barrens of Doom & Despair.
The glut of big events and blatantly desperate railroading to move the community to the Spellplagued 4E Realms struck me as too much in a short time.
Any one of the 4E Realms transition events would have been plenty, all of them at once contributed to the discontinuity between the classic Realms and the Spellplagued Realms.
If the 4E era picked up shortly after the Year of Blue Fire with the Spellplague’s ravagers still fresh, characters play an active part in alleviating the ails of the world. Groups can have epic adventures to lessen the impact and can return much of the world to some semblance of what it was. The choice is left up to each group. Moving the setting so far after the event locks in one official version and rigidly reinforces that vision across a hundred years.
Here’s how it could have worked out:
4E FR officially set immediately after the Spellplague:
- DM One: In my game, some mages of Halruaa hide out on another plane during the Spellplague. They soon returned, reclaimed, and restored some of Halruaa. Some parts remain dangerous and our adventure party is charged with eliminating the more dangerous Plague monsters and securing ancient Halruaan relics and cultural artifacts.
- DM Two: That sounds awesome. In my game, I didn’t do anything yet with Halruaa, but if I ever run a game there I might consider that idea, my players would probably enjoy rebuilding a major nation.
- DM Three: I never did much with Halruaa, I think I’ll keep it how it is for now.
- DM One: That’s alright too, it could go either way.
How it works currently with 4E a century after the Spellplague but some brave soul trying to accomplish the same thing:
DM One: (Same as above)
DM Two: Is this Post-Spellplague? You do know the FRCG said Halruaa is a wasteland in 1479 right? I doubt there is much to rebuild. I mean, it’s been a century and no one has been able to reclaim anything in the region. Face it, the Halruaans have been reduced to roving mercenary bands.
DM Three: Maybe it’s Pre-Plague. If that’s the case it took them a while to get started, if Halruaa is still a wasteland in 1479 they haven’t made much progress. I thought the Halruaans are powerful mages.
DM One: No, my game is set just a few years after the Spellplague.
DM Two: That’s crazy, the Spellplague’s immediate aftermath put everything into flux. Your group’s efforts are in vain, it’s like shoveling water into a sieve hoping to fill the container. Halruaa remains a wasteland a hundred years later. Whatever your players manage to accomplish will be wiped out when they get into the real Realms timeline.
DM One: Then my game is non-canon…
DM Three: Meh, get with the times. Why are you playing in a setting if you throw out a hundred years of it.
DM One: …
To some extent this has always been a potential problem with any RSE, but the Spellplague coupled with the century jump makes this especially pronounced. |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 02 Feb 2012 23:04:28 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 04:03:49
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| Markustay and Dark Wizard, I agree completely. The Spellplague and the Wailing Years would have been great fun as a chronological setting for a campaign. And I think Dark Wizard's scenarios are exactly on the mark; in the Year of the Ageless One, we have no reason to believe that things will get any better, because they've been this way for a century. Nothing (significant) happened in that time, so why would anything significant happen in the present or future? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 04:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The chaotic events ARE a great time to adventure in.
Too bad they set the setting a century later.
Enter "The Age of Boredom".
We already had a Barrens of Doom & Despair.
The glut of big events and blatantly desperate railroading to move the community to the Spellplagued 4E Realms struck me as too much in a short time.
Any one of the 4E Realms transition events would have been plenty, all of them at once contributed to the discontinuity between the classic Realms and the Spellplagued Realms.
If the 4E era picked up shortly after the Year of Blue Fire with the Spellplague’s ravagers still fresh, characters play an active part in alleviating the ails of the world. Groups can have epic adventures to lessen the impact and can return much of the world to some semblance of what it was. The choice is left up to each group. Moving the setting so far after the event locks in one official version and rigidly reinforces that vision across a hundred years.
Here’s how it could have worked out:
4E FR officially set immediately after the Spellplague:
- DM One: In my game, some mages of Halruaa hide out on another plane during the Spellplague. They soon returned, reclaimed, and restored some of Halruaa. Some parts remain dangerous and our adventure party is charged with eliminating the more dangerous Plague monsters and securing ancient Halruaan relics and cultural artifacts.
- DM Two: That sounds awesome. In my game, I didn’t do anything yet with Halruaa, but if I ever run a game there I might consider that idea, my players would probably enjoy rebuilding a major nation.
- DM Three: I never did much with Halruaa, I think I’ll keep it how it is for now.
- DM One: That’s alright too, it could go either way.
How it works currently with 4E a century after the Spellplague but some brave soul trying to accomplish the same thing:
DM One: (Same as above)
DM Two: Is this Post-Spellplague? You do know the FRCG said Halruaa is a wasteland in 1479 right? I doubt there is much to rebuild. I mean, it’s been a century and no one has been able to reclaim anything in the region. Face it, the Halruaans have been reduced to roving mercenary bands.
DM Three: Maybe it’s Pre-Plague. If that’s the case it took them a while to get started, if Halruaa is still a wasteland in 1479 they haven’t made much progress. I thought the Halruaans are powerful mages.
DM One: No, my game is set just a few years after the Spellplague.
DM Two: That’s crazy, the Spellplague’s immediate aftermath put everything into flux. Your group’s efforts are in vain, it’s like shoveling water into a sieve hoping to fill the container. Halruaa remains a wasteland a hundred years later. Whatever your players manage to accomplish will be wiped out when they get into the real Realms timeline.
DM One: Then my game is non-canon…
DM Three: Meh, get with the times. Why are you playing in a setting if you throw out a hundred years of it.
DM One: …
To some extent this has always been a potential problem with any RSE, but the Spellplague coupled with the century jump makes this especially pronounced.
If Halruua is still a wasteland, then clearly the right answer is that the survivors haven't returned until 1479 to start trying to reclaim their territory. The canon lawyer can't over rule that as the book says nothing about it not happening. I question any DM that can't find a way around this problem.
As for the "it's all doomed anyway" outlook, so what? The star our planet orbits will one day consume this planet in a fiery blaze wiping out any and all signs of us having ever existed and, by the logic I keep seeing here, rendering every effort throughout the course of human history pointless. Taking it one step further in case someone decides to get smart and point out that our technological progress may culminate in our species being able to leave this planet, there is still the final heat death of the universe to contend with. Does anyone really live their life thinking that and go about their daily routine knowing it's all so completely and utterly pointless? In the Realms, if you are playing before the Spellplague, the people/places you are saving are alive now. You are having an impact on that world now. At some point in the future those places will be destroyed and those people will be dead. Guess what, that was going to happen with or without the Spellplague. The only difference is now you know the date should you choose to use it. Giving up because it will be destroyed (and I think we can drop the hyperbole that it all gets destroyed, that is demonstably not the case) later is the easy path. Your characters are heroes, they didn't sign on for the easy path. Why does anyone let material they don't like dictate their actions and thoughts? |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 05:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
If Halruua is still a wasteland, then clearly the right answer is that the survivors haven't returned until 1479 to start trying to reclaim their territory. The canon lawyer can't over rule that as the book says nothing about it not happening. I question any DM that can't find a way around this problem.
Maybe you meant something else, but that's exactly my point.
It doesn't matter what the DM does, WotC overrides him with their canon. The DM can do something, but good luck finding players who see his game as anything other than an Arcane Age one-off. That is something I don't want to see happen to the 1300s Realms, but it is starting to happen as WotC uses their resources to support the 1400s Realms.
It's not about the characters, it's about the players and groups having to deal with a game of "shibboleth" before sitting down to play together. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 05:24:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
As for the "it's all doomed anyway" outlook, so what? The star our planet orbits will one day consume this planet in a fiery blaze wiping out any and all signs of us having ever existed and, by the logic I keep seeing here, rendering every effort throughout the course of human history pointless. Taking it one step further in case someone decides to get smart and point out that our technological progress may culminate in our species being able to leave this planet, there is still the final heat death of the universe to contend with. Does anyone really live their life thinking that and go about their daily routine knowing it's all so completely and utterly pointless? In the Realms, if you are playing before the Spellplague, the people/places you are saving are alive now. You are having an impact on that world now. At some point in the future those places will be destroyed and those people will be dead. Guess what, that was going to happen with or without the Spellplague. The only difference is now you know the date should you choose to use it. Giving up because it will be destroyed (and I think we can drop the hyperbole that it all gets destroyed, that is demonstably not the case) later is the easy path. Your characters are heroes, they didn't sign on for the easy path. Why does anyone let material they don't like dictate their actions and thoughts?
The issue isn't the characters, it's the players. Who is going to want to play thru the three supermodules, for example, knowing that no matter how well their characters succeed, everything is still going to go south in an off-stage event that they can't prevent? Would you be interesting in playing Titanic: The RPG? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Feb 2012 05:25:11 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 18:59:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
As for the "it's all doomed anyway" outlook, so what? The star our planet orbits will one day consume this planet in a fiery blaze wiping out any and all signs of us having ever existed and, by the logic I keep seeing here, rendering every effort throughout the course of human history pointless. Taking it one step further in case someone decides to get smart and point out that our technological progress may culminate in our species being able to leave this planet, there is still the final heat death of the universe to contend with. Does anyone really live their life thinking that and go about their daily routine knowing it's all so completely and utterly pointless? In the Realms, if you are playing before the Spellplague, the people/places you are saving are alive now. You are having an impact on that world now. At some point in the future those places will be destroyed and those people will be dead. Guess what, that was going to happen with or without the Spellplague. The only difference is now you know the date should you choose to use it. Giving up because it will be destroyed (and I think we can drop the hyperbole that it all gets destroyed, that is demonstably not the case) later is the easy path. Your characters are heroes, they didn't sign on for the easy path. Why does anyone let material they don't like dictate their actions and thoughts?
Well with the Cormyr -----> Anauroch adventures they wrote a GREAT set of adventures I think as good as a PAIZO AP with a grand conclusion. Then WOTC publishes the plague realms, and you get the feeling those adventures were pointless for the story (they were fun, yes that's the point) and they were not worth undertaking.
That series was a LONG amount of game time. I would like to think it was going to have more of an impact on the realms.
My players enjoyed the HELL out of those mods, but even the ones that were not 'realms fans' felt cheated.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 19:33:44
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I wish..................
[enjoys seeing everyone cringe as the words of fate begin to leave his mouth]
that everyone could find a way to understand that the edition rules (1E, 2E, 3E, 4E) are different than the lore.
Acknowlegement: New lore is often released with new editions but I think we should all try to train our brains to divorce the lore, stories, etc. from the rules sets in use at the time of their release.
A better way to view it would be what I'll term in 'micro-eras'. Meaning the lore that covers the time period spanning from 1358 DR through 1375 DR, for example. What were the major events? Who was where? Who is fighting whom? And the big one, what are the inconsistencies with volumes that cover eras before and after or even overlap?
By training yourself to view the lore in this manner, I've found that it helps me enjoy the who, what, where, when, and why regardless of what rule set edition your group happens to prefer.
Food for thought.
Good Hunting! |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 19:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The issue isn't the characters, it's the players. Who is going to want to play thru the three supermodules, for example, knowing that no matter how well their characters succeed, everything is still going to go south in an off-stage event that they can't prevent? Would you be interesting in playing Titanic: The RPG?
We actually played through 2 of the adventures and had a blast. And that's knowing what's going to happen a decade later (as a player). As a character, the Zhents were the immediate threat as were the Shades and Shar's clergy. It only mattered in stopping them. What people minunderstand is the Spellplague is a separate event (completely) from the events of the mega-trilogy of Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch. At least, I always felt they were. And while Cormyr had some pretty big problems (mechanically speaking), the second one was a LOT of fun. I had thought of buying the 3rd installment and finishing it up. Because Ivan Brightflame, Purple Dragon and Pegasus Knight of Cormyr is a man to see these adventurs through.
And sometimes, adventures are just fun to run through regardless of the over-all ramifications. Lets keep in perspective that this is a game. |
Edited by - Diffan on 03 Feb 2012 19:44:59 |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 20:48:05
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Granted everyone can put this aside for however long they can, but from the perspective of some fans who wants to see support for their preferred era yet having all future destiny dictated in a direction counter to their preference, you can see why they wouldn't care much for this approach.
It's all about preference.
Likewise, whatever problems some fans had with the Pre-Plague Realms, many told them the same (Ignore it, deal with it), but they persisted and look at where that got us. There is a problem, even if it is in our perception. I think the current problems are as a whole greater than the problems with the previous setting. You are free to disagree. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 21:32:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
It doesn't matter what the DM does, WotC overrides him with their canon.
With all due respect, WotC can't override any DM, anywhere, with what's in print.
That's literally impossible for them to do.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
The DM can do something, but good luck finding players who see his game as anything other than an Arcane Age one-off.
If you asked my players in my current campaign two questions:
1) What is the Spellplague?
2) what is the Arcane Age?
You're going to be greeted with blank stares. Note: two of my players have been playing D&D longer than I have and I've been playing since the early 80s.
Your conditions assume players are already well versed in Realmslore and are unwilling to cooperate with their Dungeon Master to ignore any part of published Realmslore.
Now I know for some people it's an issue. The Spellplague really puts a damper on things because some groups do like to play in the official Realms as much as possible.
Because of this, anything done in play before the Spellplague hits seems pointless.
I say "some people" because most players are concerned about their characters way, way more than extraneous events not linked to their Dungeon Master's campaign.
It's a fact many D&D campaigns ignored the Time of Troubles. Ed Greenwood's home game is an example of this.
For most campaigns, I firmly believe ignoring the Spellplague is not an issue.
Most people just want to play Dungeons and Dragons. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 22:13:30
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It's nice your own situation worked out.
I've not had as much luck, aside from some PBEMs/PbPs, and even those are limited. Though maybe I'm biased, but I've noticed recently more interest in pre-Spellplague games on the PBEM boards. Maybe this will become a non-issue, but for the moment it is an issue for me.
Don't think from my posts here I'm some Realms only purist. If I had to tally it, I've spent most of my gaming in homebrews, Dark Sun, L5R, and various versions of the Realms so different they might as well not carry the name. However, I'm not talking about a product I'm hoping to purchase from those settings or homebrews. |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 22:19:40
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You're skirting an interesting point.
That point, from my view, is Timeline.
Once you start generating a massive timeline, such as now exists in The Realms, you are exactly correct that if handled incorrectly, it appears that all future destiny is dictated. The same thing happened to Battletech. With the future already created, it becomes difficult to change the course of events in any significant fashion without falling prey to the afore mentioned 'that's not canon' issues.
This is why I feel that Ed has always encouraged us to take The Realms and make them OURS.
No one has said that you MUST take all this information and tie it to your campaign setting. Who cares other than the 'canon-nazis' about how you handle your home game? A brief reality check here....
Ed, the undisputed master of Realmslore, has been asked by WizBro to detail his home campaign. What if (and it's highly probable they are) Ed's Realms are significantly different than the 'official' Realms published by WizBro? Who in their right mind is going to be the one to volunteer to stand up and say, "Yeah, well, that's not canon and just a bunch of nonsensical homebrew." to Ed Greenwood?
quote:
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Originally posted by Dark Wizard
It doesn't matter what the DM does, WotC overrides him with their canon.
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The point is this. You're allowed to pick and choose what events to use and what events not to use in your home campaign. I'll share my own example. I like some of the effects of the Spellplague. I don't care for how that particular issue came about. Decision? I generated an alternate reason for Spellplague effects throughout my home campaign world and only used the ones I felt enhanced the game's storyline. End result? You still get a post-apocalyptic feel with a cataclysmic feel but it is not, as of this point, unrecoverable. Caveat: My home campaign timeline has not yet progressed to the 1400s and the drastic change in maps does create some 'how will i get there' issues. Answer? It's time to pick and choose again.
Good Hunting!
EDIT: Time Sync. This was started before the previous two posts but didn't get completed because of a flurry of activity at work. It says much the same as one of them so I apologize for the apparent double-tap on the post. |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
Edited by - Wolfhound75 on 03 Feb 2012 22:23:32 |
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The 4e Forgotten Realms
