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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 12:54:04
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| True, we were getting off subject. Though I do like the subject of martial arts films better. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 13:23:21
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| Whydon't you like the Tel-Quessir? Lol |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 14:42:33
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| Wood elves and drow... |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 15:47:08
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Is that a "why don't you like realms elves?" or a "why don't you like elves in general?"
In sweeping generalizations;
My problem with elves isn't that they're too "good" from any sort of moral standpoint, though elves that are a bastion of purity and saintliness do earn a special bit of loathing, but more for a general competency point. Elves, villains or otherwise, rarely have serious flaws. Either their flaws or ignored, downplayed, or completely superficial.
This ties in with the "can't argue with elves" trope. When you put a race in a fantasy setting, usually elves but a rose by any other name etc, in a position of superiority. They know better, their way is the right way. Their wisdom is beyond that of the lesser races.
Now, don't get me wrong. I don't like it when, say, humans, are always right either(and indeed I dislike humans in fantasy almost as much as elves), but to portray one side as universally right, especially in that "in touch with nature/magic" sort of way, just bugs me. Lets take a look at the movie Avatar, shall we? The na'vi are basically elves IN SPACE!. At no point do we see any major flaws in their society; one of them's a bit of a jerk who ends up coming around, and they absolutely refuse to deal with the humans, but the humans are shown as a corrupting influence with nothing of value to offer them, and indeed their cultural identity is referenced as an "insanity" that needs to be cured.
Now, lets look at a film I referenced earlier in this thread, Hellboy 2: The Golden Army. Here, considerably less of the elven culture is seen. However, what we glimpse of the fae world is flawed, varied, and conflicted. Elves face a choice of fading away or fighting for their survival, and the one leading the call for fighting does so by calling for the extermination of humanity. While he is the villain, we're shown that he cares about his world and his people, and wants to save them and reclaim what he believes is theirs. We see the beauty and the sorrow of the elven world, but also all that is wrong with it, even though we're only a brief look into it. Conversely, much of what we see of the human world is that of angry, bigoted jerks who reject, shun, or even act with open hostility towards the supernatural, but they do so in a way that is somewhat understandable; things they don't understand are invading their every day lives and disrupting the order they had built around themselves. Both sides are shown to be flawed, neither clearly in the right, both with valid points. The conflict has a lot of weight to it because it provokes thought, with two relatable factions. They're relatable because they're both broken.
Neither are perfect movies. Neither are bad movies. But they deal with the same conflict in very different ways, and in my opinion Hellboy handles it much better.
Now, back onto "elf" elves. Now. Another of my problems is elves' being near universally physically attractive. Just as I like my characters to have complex, flawed motivations and personalities, I like characters (and indeed, real people) to have less than perfect appearances. A mole or two, some crooked teeth, a bent nose. Some wrinklies, some freckles or pockmarks. A crooked smile, some asymmetrical features. And that's just the face. This is just personal preference but I like women with a little more meat on their bones than your average elf. Which is another thing; how can they be near universally handsome and still allow for personal taste? Different people have different standards of beauty. Having mentioned this in another thread, I think elves would, in reality, fall squarely into the uncanny valley. They're unearthly eyes, pointed ears, unnatural grace would make them seem unreal and unnerving. This is another thing I put in HB's favor; the elves looked off. They weren't the paragons of physical perfection most fantasy elves are.
Which leads me to another thing; when they don't randomly and conveniently live as long as the plot requires them to, as elves grow into old age they neither show it nor feel it. Another movie bit here; for all the flack(most of it deserved) Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull got, one thing it did very well was Indy as an older man, still physically fit, but feeling his age. He could still run just as far, still punch just as hard, he'd just be a bit more winded afterwards. That's a nice concept. The character who's old, feeling his age, but gets the job done anyway. Elves don't have that. They're old and they only benefit from it by gaining knowledge.
Which leads me to another bit; elves live longer, so they're better at everything they do, because they've been doing it longer. In reality, among humans, we have several instances across many fields of the young up and comer out preforming the seasoned veteran. Not always, and in some fields not even the majority of the time, but it happens and happens often. Why? Because people who've been doing things for a long time often get set in their ways and are slow to adapt to new methods. Because people who've been doing things for a long time get overconfident in their experience and underestimate the younger guy. Because as we grow older our bodies and minds slow down. We slip, we forget things. Elves don't have any of those drawbacks. They only have experience. And while I will never discount the value of experience, I sometimes find myself questioning whether or not authors push the boundaries of what it can and can't accomplish(with some apparently gaining precognitive powers from having been in so many fights before). Since humans don't live as long as elves its impossible to say for sure just how valuable that experience would be in the long run, but sometimes it just seems rather contrived.
This also ties into the "speed vs strength" thing I mentioned earlier. Now, in case it wasn't clear, I'm not arguing that strength beats speed, I'm arguing that strength isn't mutually exclusive to speed. A big, strong guy is not necessarily slow, he's not necessarily unskilled, and he's not necessarily stupid. Big strong guys are often portrayed as all when next to elves to show off how quick, how skilled, and how smart the elf is. That is probably something I dislike the most; characters who make the characters around them seem or act incompetent to highlight their own hyper-competence, and elves often fit that bill. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 15:49:32
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In FR I have no favorites, if they belong to Eldreth Veluuthra, they're ok.
Generally in D&D, the Sidhelien from Birthright, then the Aerenal. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 16:11:27
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Another way to put it; I don't know if anyone here is a fan of Red Letter Media or their star wars prequel reviews, which are absolutely hilarious, but one point they make against the prequels that is right on the money is that with the CGI and effects, they're too "pretty" and "clean". That they lack "grit" and "humanity".
As an analogy, to me, that is elves in a nutshell. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37010 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 16:21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Lets take a look at the movie Avatar, shall we? The na'vi are basically elves IN SPACE!. At no point do we see any major flaws in their society; one of them's a bit of a jerk who ends up coming around, and they absolutely refuse to deal with the humans, but the humans are shown as a corrupting influence with nothing of value to offer them, and indeed their cultural identity is referenced as an "insanity" that needs to be cured.
Yeah, the Na'vi were so unreasonable about wanting to continue living in the same place they had for centuries, and for being upset when some interlopers attacked them, forced them to flee, and then destroyed their home.
How does that have anything to do with elves and other races? It's a scenario that has been played out countless times, with humans versus humans in the real world and just about every other race versus some other in other worlds, both sci-fi and fantasy. It's not even a racial thing, it's a cultural one.
I think the Eldreth Veluuthra, the fey'ri, and individuals like Elaith show that there's a lot more to elves than the always-right bastion of purity and faith. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 17:13:49
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I was answering as to why I don't like elves in general, without a specific setting. Na'vi display traits of elves I've seen in several(admittedly non realmsian) portrayals.
Edit: As for why I don't like realms elves specifically. Admittedly this is just my general anti elf bias leaking in, but while I've seen few examples(mostly from Salvatore) of elves that reinforce my dislike of them, I haven't seen any, at all, that reverse it and make me think "Hey, I like these guys."
They just don't speak to me. I see no appeal to them whatsoever. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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Edited by - Chosen of Asmodeus on 19 Feb 2011 17:16:55 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 18:28:27
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| You guys know that Avatar was kust, albeit a good movie, just Pocohauntus in space with smirfy cat like people (the na'vi are awesome). As for thw Elf thiing, not all Elves are perfect. In Lord of te Rings, Elves who gave into the power of the ring were transformed onto oecs. Though the Elves that weren't are t fairest of all te races in Middle Earth. Elves arw generally aupposed too be more intelligent, wise, faster, more in tune with magic and nature, and beautiful. And strong willed. Humans CAN be those (thouh not quite as beautiful as Elves in most fantasy settings and in my opinion) but qe are generally weaker willed. It is the truth, we gve into things much more easier. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 18:40:19
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First off, Tolkien was undecided over the origin of orcs in his setting, whether or not they were created from corrupted elves. Regardless, the corruption had nothing to do with the ring as orcs existed long before the ring did. Secondly, saying elves are flawed because once they display serious character flaws they cease to be elves kind of defeats the point.
I appreciate Tolkien's elves. I don't quite like them, there are a lot of little things keeping me from liking them, but I acknowledge the good things(they are a flawed people who demonstrate several serious failings).
What I don't like about them, and this is the same thing I don't like about na'vi(which, imo, are anything but awesome), is that they represent what their respective creators believe humans should be. In Tolkien's case, he out and out said that elves are what humans would be had we not been cast from the gardain of eden.
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"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4273 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 18:49:50
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Brain...hurts...must...move...on...
But seriously, as for Elves, the Forgotten Realms handles them very nicely...Crown Wars anyone?
That is actually one of my LIKES about the Forgotten Realms: the elves are not given the light of being "perfect" very often at all. Instead, they are often flawed, at war (often against each other!), inept fighters at times and etc.
I choose Gold Elves as my favorite just for those reasons. Powerful, yes...but also proud, arrogant, racist and so on. They are long-lived sure, but they continue to make mistakes. So why would I pick them as my favorite?
+1 INT, +1 DEX = fun wizard or thief (or both!) |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 19:00:40
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I don't have a blink dog in this fight (not that it's a fight), as I'm neither a particular fan nor a..."non-fan" I guess is the term, of elves. But I thought some of y'all would be amused by this paragraph from Sandstorm. The speaker, Cephas, was raised in isolation as a gladiatorial slave and most of what he knows about the world comes from a sort of natural philosopher orc woman named Grinta the Pike, who explained the races of the world to Cephas in terms of how to fight them.
quote:
"Elves," said Cephas, thinking of Grinta, his only previous source of information about the lands and peoples of Faerûn. "According to Grinta the orc they are the apostate get of the Demon Lord Corellon and the Mother of All Squirrels. They cower behind trees and shoot arrows. Swing at their knees."
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 19:01:55
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Wood elves are my favorites, closely followed by Moon elves.
Regarding the speed vs strength debate, I'd like to add that disabling the physiological function of a humanoid is all that it takes. The whole "6 milion ways to die, choose one" saying holds truth. So much so that real melee fights used to be settled in one or two hits.
Swordfighting is a very mechanical practise, having to deal with reach, center of balance, points of thrust or arcs of a cutting line. Positioning, timing and aggression plays a rather large part in winning duels in swordfights. Two handed weapons are great for landing powerful blows that are hard to deflect, increasing ones reach and delivering harrowing wounds. Using to big a weapon greatly hinders the skill with which they can be used though, as the cutting lines are more easily pushed of line and the ability to disengage or reposition is great hampered. This is ofset by smaller blades, that allow for higher mobility of both the postitioning and weapon stance, enhancing both defence as offence. Smaller swords allow for aggresive attacks, but should keep in mind that landing a hit must disable thoroughly, as a blow that fails to do so allows for an opportunity for a counterblow that can be deadly.
Speed was the main reason the foil became the weapon of choice for personal protection in the late middle ages. Elves would naturally have an advantage using lighter blades, and skirmish fighting using smart flanking tactics is a rather effective way of holding ones own in melee, especially against opponents that favor larger unwieldy weapons. I suspect that's the main reason orcs and trolls dont like elves that much. |
My campaign sketches
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 00:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Generally in D&D, the Sidhelien from Birthright, then the Aerenal.
I like the Aerenal as well. And the Undying Court for that matter. In fact, I've been tinkering with a baelnorn-like concept for the Aerenal elves of EBERRON. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 00:30:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the Eldreth Veluuthra, the fey'ri, and individuals like Elaith show that there's a lot more to elves than the always-right bastion of purity and faith.
That's an intriguing point. And, also, largely in-line with Ed's thinking on Elaith, as I recall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 03:33:48
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CoA: "People who don't know what they're doing in a fight have no business being in a fight, in real life or in fiction. "
So a NORMAL person who is attacked through no fault of his own has no business fighting to save his own skin? Pardon me while I laugh myself sick. It hardly matters whether a person KNOWS what they're doing or not- when the chips are down, you do what you have to, and you do whatever you believe will work. The fight in Princess Bride was between two men who were both masters of their respective fighting styles. I'm talking about normal people fighting in a life-or-death situation. Or even just your average bar-room brawl. Most fights are over pretty quick- usually when one side or the other gets lucky and takes down the opponent with a really nasty blow. They aren't like fights in movies or books that drag out for the wow factor. Either you do what you can to win, or your opponent will beat you to it. For small folks, that means fighting smart and dirty, and learning to move in and out without getting hit.
Most people don't realize that those of us who were not especially vertically gifted deal with the rest of the world trying to take advantage of the perceived weakness of a smaller size practically from day one all the way to adulthood and beyond. It's one thing to dismiss a person who is smaller (and generally quicker- we HAVE to be, as we spend a good part of our growing up trying to avoid/fight off bullies of all stripes) as less of a threat, but the simple truth is that that person has probably had much more experience on the loosing side of fights, and as such has often learned how to turn that perceived weakness into advantage. I see elves doing this. They've had centuries of being attacked from all sides by humans, orcs, and even each other, to learn how to fight almost anyone effectively. If anything, they are so much better at fighting because they HAVE to be just to survive. And BTW, everyone talks about them hiding behind trees with bows and magic, but how often do we actually SEE that? Most of the elves I've read about use swords! They may sometimes use magic as well, but their first reaction in most fights is to whip out their blades. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 03:52:30
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People who are assaulted should do what they have to protect themselves.
I don't particularly know why I'd want to read about a small person who knows how to fight assaulting a big person who doesn't, though. Not being particularly small myself, I suppose I don't subscribe to that particular brand of revenge fantasy.
The fight in the princess bride isn't relavent to my point because of one issue. Fezzik is slow as hell. More over I'm not even talking about people in Andre the Giant's size range; not that there are many people in that size range. I'm talking about people, lets say roughly 6'4"-6'8", 265-300lbs. Roughly the size of a big orc or hobgoblin.
As for fighting dirty, everyone's going to fight dirty. Or everyone should, rather, if they have anything close to half a brain in their head. Big, small, doesn't matter. Because your not fighting for fun or sport, you're fighting to end someone's life and keep them from ending yours, and you do whatever you have to to accomplish that. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 04:18:10
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I never think of it as a bigger person not knowing how to fight- that's just doing exactly what bigger people usually do in regard to smaller folks- underestimating them. I think it boils down to complacency. A larger guy in a fight is going to rely on his size and power, and will often feel as if he is guaranteed to win simply because he always HAS. Vertically challenged folks don't have that luxury. They can't AFFORD to get complacent or over-confident about a fight. They already know they are at a distinct disadvantage in power. It makes winning the fight that much more important. A bigger guy is more likely to take it less seriously.
So in the end, it's not so much (IMHO) a matter of whether the person knows what they're doing, but who is more motivated to win. It's more about battle psychology than just skill and/or power. It doesn't matter how big you are, if the guy you're fighting really feels he has a REASON to win, you'd better bring your A-game! (Yes, us vertically-challenged folks do sometimes get a slight "Napoleon complex" and feel like we have something to prove- because quite often, we DO have something to prove....) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 04:27:26
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| See, that cuts both ways. The little guy assuming the big guy is going to fall back on size and power and assume he's going to win is as much of a preconception and underestimation as the big guy actually doing that. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 04:42:43
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I never assume, but my experience has shown that they usually do- simply because they're so used to winning that way. And I'm not talking about underestimating a larger opponent, but about understanding what he is likely capable of. Size and power are usually the best weapons such folks have. (Setting speed aside, because even a simple observation for the first few seconds of a fight can often tell you how fast your opponent is.) When two equal-sized people fight, it's often the one who gets in the first hard punch that wins. Same with a big/small fight, but then you have to add in the motivation as a factor of who has more to loose. In such a fight, it's usually the little guy who has the most at stake, because he KNOWS his opponent can do more damage. It may sound like an assumption, but it's one that is often true.
Edit for typos. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 20 Feb 2011 04:48:27 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 05:01:18
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...You know, I'm going to step back a moment and take a look at this discussion, and ask "What're we arguing about?"
My original point wasn't about whether or not a smaller, faster opponent could beat a larger, stronger one. I've never denied that it is possible.
My point was that in fiction, and in fantasy fiction especially, the reverse of a larger, stronger opponent actually beating the smaller one is extremely rare. They play on the David vs Goliath thing, but it has become so commonplace that at this point the reader is left scratching his head thinking "Why do they consider this guy a threat again? He's seven feet of pure muscle; he obviously doesn't stand a chance." Give me about ten years of the big guy actually winning and then I might be able to take the tension the reverse is supposed to invoke seriously. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 05:13:32
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| I think it's because more people can relate to the smaller guy. Most movie or fictional heroes are of the less muscle-bound variety because everyone EXPECTS a muscle-bound guy to win most fights. Conan was a powerhouse, and no one would have been surprised to see him win. But a short or thin guy without a lot of muscle to throw around? It's much more realistic. He's the underdog, because he's not someone everyone would automatically see as a great warrior. It may be a trope at this point, but it's also easier to relate to. Frodo was the ultimate "little guy" hero. He didn't even do that much fighting himself- he had lots of bigger friends to do most of the serious fighting. But he WAS the main "hero" of the story. Which is precisely why people like these types of heroes- they remind us of ourselves. Who hasn't felt a bit like David going against Goliath at one time or another? In childhood especially, these feelings can be very strong, and we look for heroes who are like us. A little kid who gets picked on a lot is going to root for a hero who is also not very big compared to his enemies. It's simple psychology. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 05:25:54
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| People who haven't seen a movie or read a book in the last thirty years expect the big guy to win by default. I don't know, maybe I'm too genre savvy for my own good. Or maybe writers consistantly fail to properly built the tension in a scene to make the little guy feel like an underdog as opposed to a monster that the big guy is going to be checking under his bed for every night after this, assuming he survives. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4273 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 05:36:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
I don't have a blink dog in this fight (not that it's a fight), as I'm neither a particular fan nor a..."non-fan" I guess is the term, of elves. But I thought some of y'all would be amused by this paragraph from Sandstorm. The speaker, Cephas, was raised in isolation as a gladiatorial slave and most of what he knows about the world comes from a sort of natural philosopher orc woman named Grinta the Pike, who explained the races of the world to Cephas in terms of how to fight them.
quote:
"Elves," said Cephas, thinking of Grinta, his only previous source of information about the lands and peoples of Faerûn. "According to Grinta the orc they are the apostate get of the Demon Lord Corellon and the Mother of All Squirrels. They cower behind trees and shoot arrows. Swing at their knees."
LOL...I like that train of thought..."Demon Lord Corellon" is awesome! Just goes to show that the "evil" races of the world might very well think that the "good" races are truly evil! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 05:58:23
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| At the end of the day this boils down to personal appeal, I'll admit that. Personally I find characters who are imposing in stature, but intelligent and skillful to be more interesting. Conan the Barbarian, Darth Vader, Urdnot Wrex(Mass Effect), Orgrim Doomhammer(Warcraft), Kain(Legacy of Kain), Nightmare(Soul Series), and others. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37010 Posts |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 06:06:13
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| You have to admit this wasn't exactly a topic with great potential for lengthy discussion. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 08:17:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
At the end of the day this boils down to personal appeal, I'll admit that. Personally I find characters who are imposing in stature, but intelligent and skillful to be more interesting. Conan the Barbarian, Darth Vader, Urdnot Wrex(Mass Effect), Orgrim Doomhammer(Warcraft), Kain(Legacy of Kain), Nightmare(Soul Series), and others.
I dunno, I've never cared that much one way or another how big the guy with the sword is. And I might also point out that most of these really don't even qualify as heroes. Conan's a gray area, but most of those others are either anti-heroes at best, or outright bad guys that I'd never feel any sympathy for to begin with. (Vader, maybe, but only at the end , and only because we know how he got started on that path....) To me, a physically imposing character is just another huge jerk who wants to throw his weight around, even if he's the smartest guy in the kingdom. And they generally don't seem all that pleasant to be around, either. Poor hygiene, worse manners, sheesh....
Kull was the same way- big hunk, smart, but in the end, I was only marginally glad that he got to be king. Yay for the jock with the huge axe. Compensating, much? And that's another thing that always irks me with "big guy" types- they always seem to have HUGE swords/axes/insert-weapon-of choice-heres. It's really annoying. What, they never heard of a dagger or short sword? I'd even settle for them using a bow or spear. Where's the hulking hunk with a dainty rapier?! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 08:50:45
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Of course they aren't heroes. Heroes bore the hell out of me. Give me anti heroes and anti villains and villain protaganists. Those are the people that fascinate me. Heroes? The hell do I want to read about another hero for?
As for the size thing, I think it is clear at this point that there's nothing I'm going to say to make you see the appeal I have for the big, powerful characters(male and female). Same way around, I don't think there's anything your gonna say to make me see the appeal of the little guy. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 08:58:48
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| Though it is funny you mention the hulking guy with the rapier; back in my warcraft days I had an orc character who for a time, walked around in a tux wielding a rapier as his weapon of choice. Was funny as hell. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Everyone's Favorite Tel-Quessir Races!
