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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 21:48:13
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This is a scroll dedicated to the question:
Are Powers inviolate within their Divine Realms?
Although this is not posted on the 'Sages of Realmslore' shelf, canon support, as opposed to speculation, is preferred in this scroll.
Thanks, Scribes!
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 22:38:21
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The answer (as usual) is 'it depends'. It depends on 1) what edition you're using, 2)what sort of Powers you're talking about (i.e. Greater vs. Intermediate, etc)and 3) What you mean bu 'inviolate'.
Working backwards, if by 'inviolate' you mean 'immune to all attacks and efforts to impose a will other than theirs' then the answer is patently 'No'; there are numerous canon examples of Powers being slain or thwarted in, or else driven from their seats of power. If OTOH, you mean 'All but impervious and virtual masters of all that they survey except in the most outrageous circumstances' then we come to questions 1 and 2. The 2E rules, for example, give all Powers double hit points and caster level in their home domain, with carte blanche to form, mold, and alter the landscape, physical laws and local reality to their tastes. Further, in 2E, you had a plethora of demipowers who 'lived' on the Prime, and those Powers were always seen to be more 'assailable' than their outer planar counterparts, largely b/c they were far less able to alter the local reality of the Prime in order to make intrusion difficult. In 3E, the same rules apply, but moreso to the Greater Powers than the others; a non-greater Power *could* alter their Realm, but it took a LOOOOONG time to do so, and could be undone by others. I'm not conversant enough with the 4E rules for Powers, but given that they are 'less buff' than the Primordials in the 4E fluff, I'm guessing that they've been nerfed a bit. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 23:20:58
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Well said.
In 2e, a deity wasn't exactly inviolate in their domain. It was, however, their "home turf," which meant they were at their most powerful. In practice, it takes another deity to mess with a deity on their home ground. Non-powers (including PC's) are pretty much screwed by default.
Note that this is also true of the rulers of the layers of the Abyss and Baator. They are stronger on their layer than they would be on, say, the Prime. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 00:55:37
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Interesting caveat, KatG... especially considering you offer no evidence contrary to the idea that Powers are not inviolate in their divine realms...
Of course, by 'inviolate' I mean 'inviolate'. (Pick the dictionary of your choice.)
Going back to your questions 1 and 2...
In 1e deities are not inviolate ( deities are defined by character levels)
In 2e deities are not inviolate while in their divine realms.
In 3e deities are very weak, and easily slain.
In 4e deities are not 'statted out' as far as I am aware.
Can you point to any canon evidence that indicates a Power is inviolate in their divine realm, from *any* edition, at *any* level of power?
I guess I'm trying to figure out the 'it depends' aspect of your reply... |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 01:58:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
if by 'inviolate' you mean 'immune to all attacks and efforts to impose a will other than theirs' then the answer is patently 'No'; there are numerous canon examples of Powers being slain or thwarted in, or else driven from their seats of power.
Well... I think that I spent a paragraph explaining the 'it depends' corollary to my reply. And since you clearly didn't read it the first time I typed it, I thought I'd just put it up there again. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 08:04:09
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Orcus/Tenebrous obliterated Camaxtli, Millori, Primus, and Manzicorian and within their respective domains as far as we know (explicitly so for Primus). Of course he was using the Last Word to do so, which is sort of a universal trump card. But the exception breaks the rule of any sense of "inviolate" nonetheless.
It's home turf though, and within that realm they're generally not going to be threatened by anything as or less powerful than themselves, excepting the use of unique exceptions and artifacts. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 11:02:02
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| Yea, they can manipulate the laws of reality in their realms, but there will always be some loophole if needed for a story. Mystra, Moander, Iyachtu Xvim, Aoskar, Primus (multiple corpses in the Astral afair) ... |
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Are Powers inviolate in their Divine realms?
