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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 22:56:28
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i dont ever remember seeing an explanation in any novels.dont really buy the sourcebooks.it just seems a bit odd.afterall we share 99% of our dna with chimpanzees but only live twice as long as them.we would have even more of the same dna as elves yet they live to well over six centuries and longer.dosent make much sense to me.
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go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:05:03
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It's fantasy, alot of things don't make sense  . |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:19:09
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| Bah, elves all look the same to me. Probably live just as long as we do but keep treacherously switching around. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:21:28
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It's not explained why other races have shorter/longer lifespans either. Dragons live for thousands of years yet humans live a mere sixty or seventy years. Tis just the way it is.  |
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Synthalus
Learned Scribe
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:23:07
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| its because they drink elven green tea! |
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
— H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories) |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:29:00
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| I like the Shadowrun answer, where some humans carry a gene that only expressed itself when magic returned to the world. As a result elves, orcs and all manner of magical creatures started to appear. Neat idea. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:46:53
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In the Realms, at least, I think it has a little to do with what Ed says below:-
quote:
However, the ‘big shift’ of the Realms to bring it to the ‘broad tapestry of reality’ that the world first started to see it in published form as having, involved my adapting it to the (1st Edition, unfolding) D&D rules, and this slow maturing of the demi-human races was present in those rules, so it’s there in the Realms.
I think of it like this: given proper amounts of nourishment (as opposed to, say, starved slavery) elves and dwarves physically mature about ten years later than their human counterparts, so that they stop looking like obvious children at about age 20 or 21 rather than 10 or 11. I don’t mean that they stop growing or even looking older - - I mean demihuman individuals stop seeming obviously immature to other races observing them at about that age (members of their own race can judge their approximate age far more accurately, given a ‘good look’ at an individual).
I don’t think demihumans are sexually mature when they stop looking like children; I believe achieving puberty takes at least another 80 years, and possibly as much as 120.
The time ‘in between’ being truly human and being sexually mature is the time in which demihumans start to grow up socially. So an elf or dwarf between, say, 20 and 100 can’t become pregnant or impregnate anyone, and so can sexually ‘play’ free of some social responsibilities. At the same time, they are dominated by surging hormones (and hence, mood swings), and are especially susceptible to all sorts of diseases (which they inevitably catch, and conquer). Also, during this long onset of puberty, their bones are still hardening, and in soft state lack some strength that saves them from breakages in some calamities, but also robs them of some accuracy that they’ll master later.
For elves and halflings, this prolonged adolescence is dominated, for most but not all individuals (so a PC adventurer could well be one of the exceptions, if desired) by judged-by-most-humans-as-wildly-frivolous-or-silly play, leading to an inability to stick with any one task or even pressing need for long (no attention span, a seeming complete inability to take consequences or impending disaster seriously).
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 00:17:33
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| One explanation for age was being part of the Weave. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 00:27:09
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"Young man, you're 100 years old and had better start acting like a properly emo elven adult! I want you to get rid of those human clothes, pick up all your pixies, and start taking your spellbooks seriously!"
"Aw, but mom, I was gonna go adventuring! <whine>" |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 07:46:25
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They live long because the gods have not yet seen their mere existence as annoying as I have. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 07:52:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Don't be a hater, lol!!
On the contrary, I love them---so much that I often have the nearly uncontrollable drive to throw a book I suddenly find to be too elfy.
Oops, sorry, I think I'm in the wrong thread... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 09:15:41
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| Canon explanation is that it was a gift from Labelas. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 10:25:18
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| That's basically the same reason offered in Tolkien's Silmarillion. |
[/Ayrik] |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 10:59:17
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
afterall we share 99% of our dna with chimpanzees but only live twice as long as them.we would have even more of the same dna as elves yet they live to well over six centuries and longer.dosent make much sense to me.
No, we only have so much in common with chimpanzees in the real world because we had the same ancestors.
There is no evidence AFAIK in the realms that humans and elves have the same ancestors.
So why wouldn't it make sense that two diffrent species have diffrent live spawns? |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 11:28:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
One explanation for age was being part of the Weave.
I can see that. After all, aren't there powerful wizards and the like who use magic to extend their normal existence by as much as 500 years with no undeath?
I think I also saw something about it being a gift from Labelas. Personally, I like a world where the gods give such wonderful gifts to their people. Of course, depending on one's perspective, it could also be a curse... |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 21:00:02
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In the RW, human chromosomes have endcaps on each end called "telomeres". These start out at a certain length, but over a person's lifetime, as cells (and therefore chromosomes) replicate, the telomeres shorten, little by little. Cells with shorter-telomered chromosomes appear more aged. Eventually, after a given number of replications, the telomeres become so short that the chromosomes and cells cannot replicate any further, and the cell simply dies. When enough or certain cells die, the person dies.
(Read <here> for some more RW info on telomeres, genes, and aging.)
Perhaps elves' telomeres are more resistant to damage, allowing more replications before they shorten significantly, which would allow them to avoid showing any noticeable signs of aging.
While elves are very young, their telomeres may be more sensitive and fragile, so they appear to age more quickly than when when they become mature. That could explain how they seem to become young adults by about age 20. But then, upon reaching young adulthood (no longer looking like obvious children), their telomeres strengthen, and they appear to age much more slowly for the next several centuries.
And perhaps they start off with longer telomeres on the ends of their chromosomes in the first place, so that even when they do visibly age, they can continue to live on for a long time, still.
And maybe this genetic/biological benefit was the result of a divine magical gift, once upon a time. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 06:13:15
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| Because Tolkien decided that his Quendi would not succumb to the ravages of time (at least not in the traditional sense); modern fantasy authors have simply appropriated this trait in their elves, to varying degrees. Similarly, halflings (hobbits) are good thieves, and dwarves have particularly hardy constitutions. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 10:24:39
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| maybe they have more midi chlorians. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Elestar
Acolyte
Hungary
27 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 23:30:30
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Telomeres-explanation is very amusing. I imagine it might also have some dependency on their metabolism, on a cellular level. I can see that either Labelas' blessing or the presence of arcane fabric may imbue and augment the performance of their regeneration. Also canon materials say that elves heal better, even if not faster than any humanoid races, what means they may recovoer from wounds without permanent scars. I think their physical/biological body or a proper image of it is somehow integrated within the Weave's substance, and this integrity helps them to endure the challenges of the physical world, such as amortizing/growing old.
In the Dark Sun Campaign Setting elves are a fleeting and shortlived race given to the inhospitable conditions of planet Athas, where the energy to practice magic is usually gathered by draining the remaining life force of the planet's flora. If we use the same analogy, the unstability within the planet's magical fabric makes the elves' integrity with it less then sufficient, wich leaves them fragile and weak.
So in my understanding it's because of the Weave in the first place, indeed. Also this means elves in general have quite a dependancy on the arcane substance.
And again canon material says that elves can smell that in the air and describe a magically optimal environment as one with "thick air". The survivors of Tintageer smell this thick air once finding themselves on FaerTelomeres-explanation is very amusing. I imagine it might also have some dependency on their metabolism, on a cellular level. I can see that either Labelas' blessing or the presence of arcane fabric may imbue and augment the performance of their regeneration. Also canon materials say that elves heal better, even if not faster than any humanoid races, what means they may recovoer from wounds without permanent scars. I think their physical/biological body or a proper image of it is somehow integrated within the Weave's substance, and this integrity helps them to endure the challenges of the physical world, such as amortizing/growing old.
In the Dark Sun Campaign Setting elves are a fleeting and shortlived race given to the inhospitable conditions of planet Athas, where the energy to practice magic is usually gathered by draining the remaining life force of the planet's flora. If we use the same analogy, the unstability within the planet's magical fabric makes the elves' integrity with it less then sufficient, wich leaves them fragile and weak.
So in my understanding it's because of the Weawe in the first place, indeed. Also this means elves in general have quite a dependency on the arcane substance.
And again canon material says that elves can smell that in the air and describe a magically optimal environment as one with "thick air". The survivors of Tintageer smell this thick air once finding themselves on Faerûn, but the narrative also says it is hovever less balmy than it was the air of Faerie.
[I was trying to write Faer^un with the circumflex accent as it used to be, but the forum code seems not to give that in  ] |
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Edited by - Elestar on 17 Mar 2011 23:38:41 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 23:42:47
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Changes in telomere metrics do not govern aging, they are only a symptom of aging. They are basically the biochemical equivalent of wrinkles, think of them as rings in a tree. If elven telomeres are at all similar to those of humans then they would only serve as rough (laboratory) indicators of elven age the same way they do for humans.
Elves are fey creatures, linked to magic and timeless youth. Humans aren't. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 23:45:28
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All this biology hurts my brain XC
But I do not believe in this evolution crap or rlations to chimps one minute. I mean, if we did evol e from them, why are they still here? And why don't we find humans or almost humanlike beings living with thwm?
@Allystra It's true. In traditional fantasy, fey creatures are practically immortal. Human functions don't apply to fey creatures nor dor the laws of physics apply on Faerie. They are not hman nor related to humans, so why do some people try to humanize them?
(I don't think scientifically n almost every case. I'm a more spiritual and superstitous person.)
Oh, and remember guys, everything exists in a place of truth. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 03:44:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Elestar
[I was trying to write Faer^un with the circumflex accent as it used to be, but the forum code seems not to give that in ]
Hold down the Alt key and type 0251. That gives you the û character.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Mar 2011 03:45:10 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 03:56:10
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With Numlock on, ALT150 works for me.
For most other ones, i just go to This Page and copy&paste. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2011 03:57:43 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 04:00:10
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| Alt0251 doesn't work on a tenkeyless; it requires the numpad. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 04:00:25
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Telomerase (the key component in RNA transcription) is indeed a problematic thing. When an error occurs transcribing a gene and it forgets/fails to copy the part to stop replication, you can wind up with cancer, for example. I don't think that the telomere has anything to do with longevity; if elves had a slower reproduction rate at the cellular level, for example, they would take months or years to heal wounds without magic.
While elves may be a part of the Weave, dwarves are generally not. I suspect it's just a species trait, honestly. Some turtles live for over two-hundred years. Scientifically, we really don't understand what governs aging, and we really have no idea how to deal with an increasingly-aged population. It is clear that in the Realms, humans can magically live longer, sometimes with divine aid (Mystra's Chosen, for example) and sometimes without. One thing I think it's important to remember is that it has been established that in the Realms both the afterlife and the gods exist. Take away the fear of death and all that remains is a fear of an unfulfilling life. That's a much more pleasant outlook on life to me, anyway. Humans enjoy a longer afterlife.
We're undoubtedly related to other primates, and I must respectfully disagree with you TW: evolution does not necessarily imply extinction for parent species. Protozoa are still around, as are marine biota which are critical to this planet's survival. if Toril has an oxygen/carbon-dioxide exchange system (basic for plants and animals to be dependent upon one another) and it must if humans cannot breath underwater, then Toril has the same basic structure as Earth in that respect.
Humans and elves must come from a very-close common ancestor and indeed, be the very similar species, to interbreed and produce children. Otherwise, half-elves would not be possible. The term "race" is a socially-constructed term. Humans made it up to justify slavery (this is true, sadly) so I cringe when I read about the various "races" of the Realms. We use the term "breed" on dogs and cats to differentiate physical differences, but nobody denies that a dog is a dog. Caucasians did deny that Africans were human, however. This is a sad part of this topic, I'm afraid.
So why do elves live longer? I can only say this:
quote:
The doors to Truth are guarded by Paradox and Confusion. If you approach Truth and turn your back when faced by its guardians, you shall never know Truth and it is lost to you forever.
If all things were explained to mortals, then they would be divine. If you think Umberlee bitches about the crowded seating in Cynosure now, well, then you know why mortals weren't meant to know everything. She's lucky she has an excuse, now Loviatar...
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 04:14:06
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Why do cats only live 15-20 years?
Dunno. Elves were meant to be a biologically different species, yet partially compatible. It's fantasy. It happens.
Elves also do not age as humans age in terms of becoming more frail by the end of their lives. They just get a bit of grey hair and still have the agility/vigor and die suddenly. |
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why do elves live so long?
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