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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 20:39:07
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It has its moments. 
Nothing with the FR logo on it is ever completely useless. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 22:14:05
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I'd say Biremes or Triremes as well, with slaves rowing, Drow with whips, you get the idea... they would still have sails for when they travelled 'light-side' (the world above).
Not sure about the rams though - a little too... phalic... for normal drow society. I suppose a ram/figurehead with some sort of demonic visage would work.
Definately boarding/grappling-hooks shaped like spiders.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Aug 2010 16:40:05 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 22:19:35
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| I use spider or drow-shaped figureheads for the ships in my realm. Demons work well, too, though. Also, the rams served a practical purpose, and since sailing in general is more of a male pursuit (for obvious reasons), I don't see why they'd have a problem with the phallic associations. For top-side travel, the sails and sea-gates are a must. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 01:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Yep. Mysteries of the Moonsea. A rather useless book, but there you go.
Well, that's a matter of opinion. I rather enjoyed Mysteries of the Moonsea -- largely because of the updated lore for the region, rather than the adventures contained within. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 01:33:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'd say Biremes or Triremes as well, with slaves rowing, Drow with whips, you get the idea... they would still have sails for when they tavelled 'light-side' (the world above).
I'd really only think biremes and triremes would be relevant upon extensive bodies of water in the Underdark. Like the Glimmersea, for example. I'd imagine most smaller bodies would regular the use of more mid-sized vessels, like rowed/towed water craft. And it's not like the drow suffer from a shortage of demi-human/monstrous slaves. 
quote:
Not sure about the rams though - a little too... phalic... for normal drow society. I suppose a ram/figurehead with some sort of demonic visage would work.
Remember though, that Tel Verinal isn't made up of your "usual drow society." With the inherent rebelliousness of the place, I'd say rams would be ideal in some cases. And we're talking drow pirates too, so the ram would definitely figure into the equation at some point -- if only as an extension of the drow penchant for ensuring perverse victories.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 05:27:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Yep. Mysteries of the Moonsea. A rather useless book, but there you go.
Well, that's a matter of opinion. I rather enjoyed Mysteries of the Moonsea -- largely because of the updated lore for the region, rather than the adventures contained within.
I liked it, too. It's not my favorite 3E book, and I'm not a huge fan of the format of it, but there was some good material in there. Plus, it gave me the hook I needed for one of my Lords, so that was a huge plus for me! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 18:03:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd really only think biremes and triremes would be relevant upon extensive bodies of water in the Underdark. Like the Glimmersea, for example. I'd imagine most smaller bodies would regular the use of more mid-sized vessels, like rowed/towed water craft. And it's not like the drow suffer from a shortage of demi-human/monstrous slaves.
Agreed. And you can bet your "booty" that they'd let the slaves go down with the ship in case of a breach! 
Remember though, that Tel Verinal isn't made up of your "usual drow society." With the inherent rebelliousness of the place, I'd say rams would be ideal in some cases. And we're talking drow pirates too, so the ram would definitely figure into the equation at some point -- if only as an extension of the drow penchant for ensuring perverse victories.
Heh, perverse victories... Nice one, Sage.  |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 18:48:35
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I would even go a step further with this city.
I would make it so that Moonsea Pirates could trade there...it is a merchant city after all.
You could expand the idea that there is a Portal of some sort within the Moonsea; possibly Stormy Bay. Mayhap it is the portal which spawns storms in the Moonsea?
It could explain why the Pirates have no "usual" base; but seem to always be present in the area. I know many of them are sponsored by this or that city, and even quite likely Sembia and others away from the Moonsea; but Drow sponsored Pirates on the surface wouldn't be something out of the bounds of imagination for sure. During the day the Drow would be below deck while the human mercenary pirates served on deck.
The whole affair could be a remnant of Spelljamming with Tel Verinal being a "port below" for the less nice folks such as Neogi, Mind Flayers and etc. They could simply land in the Moonsea, go to the Portal and be within reach of the city easily...which could also be the reason that Drow "Pirates" are found on the surface waters: keeping unwanted individuals from finding the portal to their city.
Just some thoughts. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 02:11:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would make it so that Moonsea Pirates could trade there...it is a merchant city after all.
It could also function as a convenient hiding place for the prisoners of the pirates. A rich family looking to secure the release of loved ones might find it all the more intimidating when they learn their relatives are kept within a drow enclave.
quote:
The whole affair could be a remnant of Spelljamming with Tel Verinal being a "port below" for the less nice folks such as Neogi, Mind Flayers and etc. They could simply land in the Moonsea, go to the Portal and be within reach of the city easily...which could also be the reason that Drow "Pirates" are found on the surface waters: keeping unwanted individuals from finding the portal to their city.
Hmmm. I'm going to have to look up the "Wreck of the Mindspider" adventure from the chapter on the neogi in 3e's Lords of Madness, because there's some elements from that which I'd like to merge with Dalor's idea above. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 22:31:46
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Well, I know Tel Verinal is important to my Realms now...
I'm just saying... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 07:56:17
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| I can't wait for Snowblood's leaflet on this city... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 08:14:12
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I'll be adding a few tidbits myself, along with Snowblood's work. I doubt I'll be as comprehensive, but some of the ideas presented in the scroll so far have really got me excited about drow again.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 01:45:16
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A couple of comments and questions:
First, can I get a page number for that Tel Verinal NPC cite? I'm trying to find it in my 2e Moonsea book, and am having no luck. It's the TSR 9474 book with the Bread vs Sword duel on the cover; am I looking in the correct book?
Second, just a general reminder that we have Lloth-worshipping drow taking out the city of Sulasspryn and remaining in the area. They don't have to be from Tel Verinal (and probably aren't, based on the response from Ed), but I figured I'd mention them to at least appear helpful on the subject.
Finally, aside from its inclusion on the map in the 3e Underdark book, are there any sources on the Moondeep Sea? Since I'm already running a "sea elves in the Moonsea" campaign, it might be interesting to expand it into an Underdark lake as well. I can invent from whole-cloth if I have to, but it'd be nice to know what's out there first.
Needless to say with my Point 3, I'll be very interested to see what Snowblood and everyone else comes up with... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:44:54
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Same here! Sage, this was precisely the reason I used drow pirates in my homebrew world- it made them much more fun to use, instead of just another ho-hum bunch of spider-kissing fanatics. Most of the ones players come across in my campaigns either don't even follow her, or they only pay lip-service, and keep a cleric on the ships only for healing and combat support. A lot of them are Vaerhaunians, for the obvious reasons (ie- return to surface, equality of males, patron of theives, etc...)
Of course, I took it a step further and went a little bit "Pirates of the Caribbean" (Or maybe that should be "The Pirate Movie"? For those who remember that goofy spoof...) with it by having them led by a "Pirate King" who rules over the most powerful House and a small fleet of ships. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 11:43:02
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Tel Verinal & Corsairs of The Moondeep Sea....its coming just as soon as I send sage what I've done & he can then cull & edit to hopefully make it happen......
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Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 13:08:57
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Hey Snowblood. Since you're in this thread, I figured I'd comment here. I've be reading some of your previous work, and some of it's quite impressive. Some of it less so, of course, but hey, when was there ever a sourcebook that that didn't apply to? I really appreciate your including a "Sources Used" in the back, since in some instances I'm more interested in tracking down all the various links to whatever realm is under discussion than in new lore, but sometimes it's hard to tell what came from where, or what was created whole-cloth.
Do you think you could add short notes after each source saying what came from there? Like, "Demihuman Deities - Temple of Stars, moondark ale, ruling clan name" That would make figuring out what came where a lot easier.
(And yes, in case you haven't guessed, I'm an archivist by trade, and I'm asking for provenance. It seems I just can't get away from my field... ) |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 13:21:05
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Avast there ye scurvy draegloths, secure the topsul, batten' the hatches, and stow the anchor! Look lively or ah'll ha' ye guts for garters!
I really like this idea...even if I do keep getting images of a female drow lead in Pirates of Penzance... |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 13:43:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
Tel Verinal & Corsairs of The Moondeep Sea....its coming just as soon as I send sage what I've done & he can then cull & edit to hopefully make it happen......
Ah, good. I'm nearly done with my own meager contribution to your work, so it'll be interesting to see how these two pieces will relate with each other. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 01:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ooh! Can't wait to see it!! (I'd be ETERNALLY grateful is one of you guys would e-mail or pm me the results!!) I really don't see a female drow in that role, though, for obvious reasons.... Jarlaxle, MAYBE.....
It's more than likely that the finished result will be made available for download here at Candlekeep. I'll let interested scribes know when that happens. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 14:54:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ooh! Can't wait to see it!! (I'd be ETERNALLY grateful is one of you guys would e-mail or pm me the results!!) I really don't see a female drow in that role, though, for obvious reasons.... Jarlaxle, MAYBE.....
Wouldn't it be all too stereotypical if society is again gender-determined? Wouldn't it be quite refreshing to have a drow lady dominating proceedings, but not with divine power, but intellect and guile? No? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 17:03:49
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| But isn't that still a stereotype? Having a female in charge in a drow city is pretty common. Having a MALE take control through sheer force would be something different... Which is what I did with my homebrew campaign. One male built an alliance of all the dissatisfied common soldiers and male Nobles; they started a coup to overthrow the Matrons, and he set himself up as the new ruler. No council of mages like in Sshamath, just a VERY powerful "Guild" of theives, assassins, and spies, backed by a hella army! They DO still allow the priestesses to perform their business, but with a tight rein on them, to keep them from retaliating.... It makes for a very tense and complicated society. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 09:27:32
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Honestly? Your whole article above is soaked up with stereotypes.
E.g., dissatisfied males as leaders by force (arcane or the like) is pretty stereotypical, since it would solely be what they do when the Lolthites are not on top of the hierarchy. And keeping the priestess (see, you see no reason to have priests there, possibly of non-drow faiths) under control is just another of those stereotypes. Either they rule or they are kept at bay. (See Sshamath or those monks or any Vhaeraunian settlement you find.)
Why not create a society/place like any else on the surface? Churches have a role, but not as direct an influence as they have in other drow cities. Having a female leaderess* (not necessarily just one leader of the whole place) that has no love for gods and churches would be something different.
*And she does not even have to be drow by race, you know ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 17:39:41
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@ Zanan:
I did not say there WERE no priests of other faiths. In fact, my campiagn drow realm actually is pretty fragmented in terms of which deities are worshipped. Mostly a Lolth/Vhaeraun split, but with a heavy dose of all the other drow gods except for Eilistraee, who is still a very much hated and "Underground" deity. I also have followings of several evil human gods- primarily a goddess of destruction, a major death god, and a deity somewhat like Malar. So, no, it's NOT at all a stereotype, simply because although the males took SOME power, they were not able to completely take over, so there is a lot of tension and power struggle still going one between the two main factions. It's currently in the process of a "Civil Cold War", which is to say that the militant half is trying to gain more power, while the few remaining Matrons attempt to counter and take back what they lost- and all of this is not just in ONE city, but ALL of the drow settlements, which are now loosely combined into one nation under the new regime. FAR from the typical drow society, especially given the fact that they are mainly maritime-based!
On a side-note, wizards play a much less prevenalt role, the new "King" allowed the Matrons to keep their Council- though it is mixed between Matrons and Patrons, and has less of a say in matters of governance since it answers to him- AND there is a nice little hook of tension within the ruling House itself between the new leader and his Consort, who rules in his absence when he is out leading surface raids. (Which is quite frequent, since he is first and foremost a notorious pirate lord...) Much of the tension comes from the unstable tug-of-war between the two sides, the political manuevering involved, the occasional house wars still going on, and the fact that much of their livelihood depends on getting what they need from attacking lands across the sea. (It's on/under an island cluster surrounded by dangerous reefs, a rift, and various other hazards.) And although there is the religious element to the conflict, it plays a far less important part than one might think. Rather than being mostly a war of faith, it is mianly a war of gender. (Many of the drow in my realm only pay lip-service to a deity, at best.)
When I came up with this, I wanted to take all those stereotypes you mentioned and turn them up-side-down. The "King" of this developing nation really doesn't give two craps about Lolth, or any other god. (Though he is under the nominal patronage of Vhaeraun, but only as more of a "deal with the devil" sort of manner, NOT because he actually follows him...) While most females still avidly follow Lolth, their numbers are reduced, and some are actually looking elsewhere, much like what happened during her Silence in FR. One of the ones gaining some followers is a human goddess of vanity, lies, and illusions, although I haven't quite worked out the reason behind her ascension yet. The point is, I took the equation and tinkered with it for some new twists- like the fact that nearly all the settlements are in caves with direct access to the open sea, which means that a large number of the drow have no light-blindness (took away or reduced a coulpe of powers to compensate) and there are at least half a dozen temples to various gods in the main city I use, and about the same in the other five cities. The ONLY reason I put females on the side-lines is for simple practicality. Women generally do NOT have the physical stregth and endurance (drow women being slightly bigger does not count for much when it's strenuous ship-running work. If you don't know what I'm talking about, watch any episode of Deadliest Catch- it's VERY hard work running a ship!) to actively participate in the kind of sea-faring society I built. They still perform as ship's clerics, in the temples to Lolth and other gods, and doing much of the crafting, etc at home. Much like ANY sea-going society. Heck, if anything, the drow in my home campaign are more like an Underdark version of Viking raiders or Barbary corsairs. With some nasty twists added. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2010 : 02:38:25
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| thanks....just did....the law enforcers guild & spider wranglers teams......its a rather eclectic...egalitarian place where swords & money talk much louder than politics or religion....business is key... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2010 : 04:38:44
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| Wild West in the Underdark... Sounds promising. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Tel Verinal drow city
