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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 23:09:43
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Random thought time!
Lots of talk about when and if 5e rolls around, and what will happen to the realms when and if it hits. What if the the alterations that are revealed as as follows...
Ao: Hi guys! Just got back from my Caribbean booze-cruise a--WHAT THE &*^£$% GOING ON HERE?! SERIOUSLY!
The Gods: Um, yeah, Cyric went off the decaf and...
Ao: Shut your pie hole. Ok, we can fix this, just gimme a sec here.
*Ao parts the clouds to regard the mortal realm*
Ao: Hey, you, hot mortal chick, wanna be the goddess of magic? Yeah? Nice one.
---
A new mortal host is chosen to become Mystra's latest and greatest incarnation. She restores the Weave in such a way as to not screw the world spellcasters yet again. Those gods that died in the aftermath of the Spellplague or forced to merge unceremoniously are restored to their former glory by Ao's hand. In her new office, nu-Mystra goes about restoring some of the damage done by the spellplague (plague-lands and rifts), but it is impossible to banish them completely.
Basically, we get to keep the additions of the latest additions, return the dumped material. Fairly ham fisted, obviously, but we get the old skool cool back as well as keeping the nu skool cool.
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Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 23:57:36
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| To be honest, I'm so sick to death of RSEs that even if they did propose an edition compromise like that, I'd have zero interest in it. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 00:16:28
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| Honestly I am becoming more and more acceptible to the idea of a grand reset button, redo the Old Gray Box in a 400 pg hardback Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and voila, welcome to 1357. |
Edited by - Gambit on 06 Jun 2010 00:17:12 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 00:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
1357 is just prior to the Time of Troubles, right? Anyway, I'm not trying to start a serious discussion, I just had an amusing thought fall out of my nose.
Indeed sir, 1357 was the start of the Forgotten Realms as a D&D campaign setting, the set year of the Old Gray Box. And I did get a chuckle when I read your first post. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 03:33:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
Honestly I am becoming more and more acceptible to the idea of a grand reset button, redo the Old Gray Box in a 400 pg hardback Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and voila, welcome to 1357.
I so agree with this.
Most of the NPC's in the Old Grey Box could be changed over to the 4E Rules with little or no fuss.
Thus I have the 4E Rules in a Realms I actually like MOST of the time. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ryu Oakleaf
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 04:53:46
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| To be honest I grew up playing the 2nd addition and I still like those rules/settings the best |
Yes Ryu Oakleaf from the famed Oakleaf Clan....Sword Mage.... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 05:14:49
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Not quite the Old Grey box...
Let Ed 'Greenwooderize' the published Realms, making it as close to his original without copyright infringements, redundancy, or real-world cultures ported-in.
And by Copyright Infringements, I mean things he used that were taken from other works - like the wood between the Worlds. The concepts can stay - he can just call it the 'Twilight Realm' or some such.
No real-world Gods of course - change the entire Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons, along with (maybe) Tyr (call him Thiyr or something close). I would have to also say Oghma and Loviatar... but I kinda like them and they never bothered me so much (probably because they are from less well-known pantheons). And of course any other early oddities like Kronos, Dionysius, or Poseidon.
I can definitely get behind that, but another RSE reset would just sink the IP to even lower depths, even if I like the direction it goes in. The Spellplague, at the end of the day, didn't do nearly as much damage as the hundred year time jump. THAT is what wiped-out 90% of my purchased published Realms material. So if we ever really do get a reset, I would rather turn back the clock, then just dump Mystra back into the post-Spellplague Realms.
Of course, if we are stretching things here, we could say that one good side-effect of the Spellplague was that it caused human lifespans to reach 200. 
There would be a population explosion of course, but a lot of people (unknown NPCs) were wiped out by the actual magical cataclysm, so the numbers would be right about where they were way back in 1385 DR. Kill who you want, keep who you want, change whatever you like or leave it all the same - its YOUR call.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Jun 2010 18:02:23 |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 05:33:43
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quote:
Originally posted by BrimstoneMost of the NPC's in the Old Grey Box could be changed over to the 4E Rules with little or no fuss.
Thus I have the 4E Rules in a Realms I actually like MOST of the time.
Gah, keep the NPC's away from that yucky 4E!! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 06:02:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not quite the Old Grey box...
Let Ed 'Greenwooderize' the published Realms, making it as close to his original without copyright infringements, redundancy, or real-world cultures ported-in.
And by Copyright Infringements, I mean things he used that were taken from other works - like the wood between the Worlds. The concepts can stay - he can just call it the 'Twilight Realm' or some such.
No real-world Gods of course - change the entire Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons, along with (maybe) Tyr (call him Thiyr or something close). I would have to also say Ohhma and Loviatar... but I kinda like them and they never bothered me so much (probably because they are from less well-known pantheons). And of course any other early oddities like Kronos, Dionysius, or Poseidon.
Mielikki is another of the imported deities -- and it would be difficult for them to write her out.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Spellplague, at the end of the day, didn't do nearly as much damage as the hundred year time jump. THAT is what wiped-out 90% of my purchased published Realms material. So if we ever really do get a reset, I would rather turn back the clock, then just dump Mystra back into the post-Spellplague Realms.
I have to disagree with you here. It is my opinion (and I'm not trying to sell my point, just state it) that the time-jump was far less damaging to the setting. One of my fave fantasy authors has written several series of books in his own setting. In the first book, a character is intro'ed as a young teenager (maybe 14 or 15), and his intro is about 9 years after the book started. The most recent book features that character's 40-ish great-grandson. And while I miss many of the original characters, the passage of time has been handled in a reasonable and logical manner, so it doesn't bother me too much.
With the Realms, I could have handled simply fast-forwarding a bit, provided that everything was still reasonable and logical. Sure, that would have made a lot of prior lore useless, but that simply opens the door for new lore.
The Spellplague, on the other hand, is something that in my opinion lacks logic in its reasoning or its execution. And while I may not have had any use for some of the bits of the map removed by the Spellplague, the fact remains that they were prior canon, and wiping them out of the setting is far more of a change than someone dying of old age.
The passage of time would not have changed the flavor of the setting for me. The Spellplague, on the other hand, very much changed the flavor of the setting for me.
Me, I favor rolling back to the end of 2E. I grew up in 2E, and many of my fave novels and sourcebooks come from that era. I'd roll back to right after Cloak & Dagger, and move forward from there. Some 3E things would be kept as they were originally written, others would be rewritten, and still others removed completely.
Of course, not everyone would agree on what to keep, change, or lose... And at least two of the things I'd lose would irk a lot of people, I think (I am not a fan of some things that are well-liked by the majority of Realms fans). And it's for that reason that I think simply going all the way back to the Old Grey Box is the only way to go.
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 06:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not quite the Old Grey box...
Let Ed 'Greenwooderize' the published Realms, making it as close to his original without copyright infringements, redundancy, or real-world cultures ported-in.
And by Copyright Infringements, I mean things he used that were taken from other works - like the wood between the Worlds. The concepts can stay - he can just call it the 'Twilight Realm' or some such.
No real-world Gods of course - change the entire Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons, along with (maybe) Tyr (call him Thiyr or something close). I would have to also say Ohhma and Loviatar... but I kinda like them and they never bothered me so much (probably because they are from less well-known pantheons). And of course any other early oddities like Kronos, Dionysius, or Poseidon.
I can definitely get behind that, but another RSE reset would just sink the IP to even lower depths, even if I like the direction it goes in. The Spellplague, at the end of the day, didn't do nearly as much damage as the hundred year time jump. THAT is what wiped-out 90% of my purchased published Realms material. So if we ever really do get a reset, I would rather turn back the clock, then just dump Mystra back into the post-Spellplague Realms.
Of course, if we are stretching things here, we could say that one good side-effect of the Spellplague was that it caused human lifespans to reach 200.
There would be a population explosion of course, but a lot of people (unknown NPCs) were wiped out by the actual magical cataclysm, so the numbers would be right about where they were way back in 1385 DR. Kill who you want, keep who you want, change whatever you like or leave it all the same - its YOUR call.
Dont change the Mulhorandi pantheon, just get rid of it, this and getting rid of Tyr and promoting Torm to greater god were some of the very few 4E FR changes I could get behind. Not saying I at all liked how they got rid of Tyr, but I liked the end result.
Now I would love a reset for several reasons, one, I'm a big fan of the evil three, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, so having them all back in action would be gravy for me, although I would rather have Kelemvor as judge of the dead and Myrkul as the god of undeath/decay type, so there are inconsitencies to my desires. Also I actually prefer a neutral Mystra. And of coarse I could grab a tankard with my old buddy Azoun while hes on a disguised trip to Eveningstar.
But heres is my biggest point, its all about the feeling that is invoked. When I read just about any of the 1e/2e FR sourcebooks, I get slapped over the head with flavor and pizazz, and it was a good feeling and had this great mystique about it. When 3e came about, that feeling was still there, but it felt somewhat diluted to my mind, maybe it was the fact that it was more "gamey", I dont know, but overall it managed to keep that same mystique about it. When 4e came out and I read the new campaign setting, the feeling.....was gone, I didnt connect with this world in any tangible way that I had with its previous incarnations, gone was the rich flavor that had captavated me and made it hard to put a book down before I had devoured its information, and what had replaced it was a feeling of just apathy. Now this is all a matter of personal opinion on my part, but maybe it is shared by some of you and thats why we cling like we do to the old ways. |
Edited by - Gambit on 06 Jun 2010 06:07:22 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 06:31:51
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Apples & Oranges, Wooly.
I'm looking at it from a DMs perspective - I just want to be able to use all my source-books again, with nearly all the info intact.
You are looking at it as a Realms fan - which I also am - but I was a DM first, so that is where my desires lie.
I used to be able to find the name of nearly every tavern owner in the Realms... now I don't even know if the tavern is still there... or the town it was in for that matter. 
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Mielikki is another of the imported deities -- and it would be difficult for them to write her out.
Mielikki is another deity who is relatively unknown outside of RPG fans and mythology buffs, so she doesn't bother me. It only urks me when I hear a Greco-Roman, Egyptian, or Norse god's name outside of Earth (and the Norse & Egyptian not nearly as much as the Greek and Roman). I probably wouldn't have been bothered by the Sumerian and Babylonia gods of Unther, had they not used both and created such a crappy hodgepodge with THAT pantheon. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 12:32:01
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I would go with about the start of the Grey box, but without compromises that might have been done in that box. In other words all Ed. I like many of the 1st and 2nd ed. products, and would keep one using them, in addition to own ideas and non-Realmsian products. There are plenty of Ed's details that I would never use (less, magic, more primitive, less war wizards, no Evermeet etc), but that is as DM. And despite tha,t any detail added by another author, whilst interesting, might have substituted an established idea in the original Realms, which I will never see as things have developed. As much as I love the work of for example Steve Perrin, I would rather have a detailed source book on Thay and the surrounding lands as Ed envisioned them. I would probably never stop using using Tom Prusa's version of the Shining South, but I am even more curious as to what ideas Ed had for the region. There is a limit to how many outdated lore questions I can sneak into Ed's thread.
And Wooly, the curiosity is killing me here, so not to start a debate, but what are the parts you would have liked to see changed? |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 14:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
No real-world Gods of course - change the entire Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons, along with (maybe) Tyr (call him Thiyr or something close). I would have to also say Ohgma and Loviatar... but I kinda like them and they never bothered me so much (probably because they are from less well-known pantheons).
How about Anachtyr and Curna?
I do prefer to play in after the timeline in the Grey Box, but all incarnations of the Realms have elements and ideas that are worthy of keeping. |
z455t |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 15:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
And Wooly, the curiosity is killing me here, so not to start a debate, but what are the parts you would have liked to see changed?
Well, I personally felt that the War of the Spider Queen was absolutely pointless. I'd leave that out, entirely.
I've mentioned elsewhere my thoughts for how Shade's return should have been handled, but I'll add an addendum here. When I first saw, in a comic shop Previews catalog, that Shade was returning, I assumed that it's return would be used the same way the Time of Troubles was: to provide an in-game explanation for an edition change. I was excited about that... And then we had a boatload of changes with no explanation, even when they had the opportunity (an extra line, under the description of the Thunder Blessing in the FRCS, would have explained how the previously non-magical dwarves could suddenly use arcane magic).
I like the elven Crusade, though I would have changed the epilogue: I think 5 years is not enough time to reclaim the ruins.
I liked the Year of Rogue Dragons trilogy, but I never felt that the threat went much beyond the Moonsea area. Even a couple of interludes, with rampaging dragons elsewhere, would have made it feel like more of a Realms-Shaking Event, and not a Region-Shaking Event.
Also, I would have followed up on some of the 2E plot-threads. Specifically, the Manshoon Wars and the Harper Schism.
And Halaster would still be around in some form. Either contingency magic would have restored him, or we'd have some interesting Manshoon/Halaster amalgam, or he wouldn't have blown up in the first place. I couldn't finish reading Expedition to Undermountain, knowing that his unexplained death was part of it. It also didn't help that after establishing what magic wouldn't work in Undermountain, just a few pages later we find an NPC successfully using some of that magic. 
We would have gotten to explore the aftermath of Cormyr's war with the Devil Dragon.
I think Bane's return would be left mostly as it is, but with a couple more hints supporting my theory that he hasn't really returned. The hints are already there, but I'd add a little more. 
Things like that. There's more, but that's a good starting point.
My Realms of the 3E era would not have been identical to the published Realms of 3E, but there would have been a lot of common points betwixt them. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 16:05:22
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Ok so a Grey Box reboot looks fairly popular, so how's this... The hypothetical 5e Realms consists of three books, preferably big and fluff heavy ones:
- The Forgotten Realms: detail everything from the Moonshaes and Nelanther to the far end of Semphar and the Desert of Desolation, and Pelvuria to the Utter East. Focus quite heavily on the Realms just before, during, and just after the Time of Troubles.
- The Realms as they Once Were: pretty much the same size as the 'core' book above, but with a tight focus on the history of the realms, fleshing out fallen kingdoms and crumbled empires from the Creator Races up to the 1300's.
- The Realms as they Might Be: same size again, but fleshing out a number of hypothetical future developments of the realms. e.g. the Spellplague and it's impact would be discussed, as would a number of other alternatives, as many radical as modest.
- Appendices of the Realms: monthly/bi-annual/whatever mini-publications of some sort with extra hits of random realmslore.
EDIT: Perhaps make the first book there should be exclusively Old Grey Box, leaving the ToT as one of the 'modules' of future lore in the third book, and possibly split it into a number of regional books. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 06 Jun 2010 16:11:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 16:13:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Ok so a Grey Box reboot looks fairly popular, so how's this... The hypothetical 5e Realms consists of three books, preferably big and fluff heavy ones:
- The Forgotten Realms: detail everything from the Moonshaes and Nelanther to the far end of Semphar and the Desert of Desolation, and Pelvuria to the Utter East. Focus quite heavily on the Realms just before, during, and just after the Time of Troubles.
- The Realms as they Once Were: pretty much the same size as the 'core' book above, but with a tight focus on the history of the realms, fleshing out fallen kingdoms and crumbled empires from the Creator Races up to the 1300's.
- The Realms as they Might Be: same size again, but fleshing out a number of hypothetical future developments of the realms. e.g. the Spellplague and it's impact would be discussed, as would a number of other alternatives, as many radical as modest.
- Appendices of the Realms: monthly/bi-annual/whatever mini-publications of some sort with extra hits of random realmslore.
I like everything but the Might Be idea. There are simply too many hypotheticals to explore... I think they'd be better off to rename the current version of the setting (the Shattered Realms, as I've called it) and keep going from there, and relaunch the Forgotten Realms after rolling it back to some earlier point. Yes, this is very much a New Coke/Coke Classic idea, with the exception that both versions have plenty of fans and would presumably stay strong.
One effect of doing a rollback would be that Wizards could republish some of the earlier books -- everything is already done for those books, and a relaunched setting would make them relevant again. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 16:23:06
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Fair point with the Might Be book, but it wouldn't try to do everything. Maybe just the Spellplague, the natural progression of the Realms as is, and two or three other possibilities.
The republishing thing never occurred to me though, I'd quite like to see the old stuff resurrected and dusted off. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 16:39:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Kno
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
No real-world Gods of course - change the entire Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons, along with (maybe) Tyr (call him Thiyr or something close). I would have to also say Ohgma and Loviatar... but I kinda like them and they never bothered me so much (probably because they are from less well-known pantheons).
How about Anachtyr and Curna?
I don't think that would work for the entire scope of people across the Realms. After all, Anachtyr is largely of the Calimshan pantheon, while Curna is the Durpari version of Oghma. They're largely regional-specific interpretations and, as such, aren't quite as applicable for Realms-wide usage. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 17:10:46
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If we are playing the "Dream publishing" game then here is my personal version. One big book with an overview of the Realms. One book, about five hundred pages with small writing and no bloody borders taking up all the space. Black and white illustrations used with moderation. As much as I love the Grey Box, I think the Gold box gave a more coherent picture, so it would be closer to that in tone. Ed is the writer of course and the book has no rules.
An additional 150 page book with the rules of the Realms containing the modifications to the rules-set in question (I would prefer a Basic Roleplaying variety, but that's just me) suggested to best make them fit the Realms. Spells, priests, monsters and magic would also be given some detail here.
Now, as for further publications. I would actually go for the mixed adventure/ source-book format. TSR and WOTC never really got it to work, but if the looser form used in old Runequest products like Griffin Mountain was used it would be great. Soft cover books of about 150 pages, black & white, no borders and sparse illustrations. No more than one pr year in my opinion. Ed would have to be involved to keep things in the right tone. Much the same role as Stafford had with Gloriantha. Cormyr and the Dalelands would be perfect for the first book; I always hated that Ed never got to write the ultimate product for the region.
Smaller adventures and articles would be added to give some product flow, both pieces in printed magazines and an internet site might work well.
Ah, it sounds good to me, even if it would make a lot of people cry. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 06 Jun 2010 17:11:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 18:10:51
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@ Cleric Generic & Wooly - they've actually done just that before, in the 1e and 2e books. We'd be given a date that the events of the sourcebook are current, and then given a timeline of about a year wherein we can see the unfolding events, and use them if we want in our campaigns.
This way, we knew weather we wanted our PCs to be involved in said events, or steer them clear of them, so as not to upset canon. That is what I would like to see - I doubt we would ever get a monthly/bi-monthly publication for the Realms, but a yearly book with a 'calender of events' would work just as well.
@Jorkens - Griffon Mountain was a great product - I had placed it in my Greyhawk campaign, and had always hoped to place it again in an FR one. Great example of a great product that was well-written, useful, and cost-effective. I thought MoM was along those lines, but that product wasn't well-received- I'm one of the few people I know that thought it was excellent. Non-playing fans of the Realms have to understand that the setting was made to play D&D - the stories are just gravy. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Jun 2010 18:18:52 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 18:32:47
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Just curious, did you run Greyhawk with Basic or run Griffin with AD&D?
Oh, and maybe you remember this Markus(I asked the question about a month ago, but it seems nobody knew the answer); I only own the Moon Design Publications slightly expanded version of Griffin Mountain; did the original contain the same tribal names as the Uthgard in the Realms? Jaquays worked on both Griffin and Savage Frontier, so its clear that this came from him, but I am curious as to where it was used first. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 06 Jun 2010 18:33:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 18:34:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@ Cleric Generic & Wooly - they've actually done just that before, in the 1e and 2e books. We'd be given a date that the events of the sourcebook are current, and then given a timeline of about a year wherein we can see the unfolding events, and use them if we want in our campaigns.
This way, we knew weather we wanted our PCs to be involved in said events, or steer them clear of them, so as not to upset canon. That is what I would like to see - I doubt we would ever get a monthly/bi-monthly publication for the Realms, but a yearly book with a 'calender of events' would work just as well.
Not the same thing. The earlier books had the Current Clack and the timelines, which were stuff that was either happening or rumored to be happening. And that was great stuff, which they never should have dropped.
What Cleric Generic was proposing -- at least as I interpreted it -- was more of a What If? section. The book would say "okay, here's an RSE, and potential ramifications of it. Or here's another version of that RSE." The earlier stuff was never that big in scope.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Jorkens - Griffon Mountain was a great product - I had placed it in my Greyhawk campaign, and had always hoped to place it again in an FR one. Great example of a great product that was well-written, useful, and cost-effective. I thought MoM was along those lines, but that product wasn't well-received- I'm one of the few people I know that thought it was excellent. Non-playing fans of the Realms have to understand that the setting was made to play D&D - the stories are just gravy.
I actually liked Mysteries of the Moonsea, but I'm not sure that is the best approach.
And you can play D&D in any setting, but it's the stories of that setting that set it apart. The stories motivate you to play in that setting -- all the rules in the world won't make the setting appealing if it's not got anything interesting in it. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Jun 2010 18:36:06 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 18:52:51
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Yeah, the vague idea I had for the Might Be book was 'Chapter X: The Spellplague... The Spellplague is this/that/the other, if you wish to stick it on the Realms, here's how you might go about doing so. Chapter Y: Rise of the Shadovar... The Shadovar are, etc, etc. Chapter Z: Leave everything the F$%K alone, for God's sake!... If left largely unmolested, here is how events in the Realms might unfold over the next hundred years...' You get the idea.
Nothing that says 'this will happen in X years', but a bunch of optional campaign templates or some such, and not all large scale RSE stuff, either. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 19:01:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And you can play D&D in any setting, but it's the stories of that setting that set it apart. The stories motivate you to play in that setting -- all the rules in the world won't make the setting appealing if it's not got anything interesting in it.
I would say that the setting should motivate you to play your own stories. Small hints and details. The setting elements that inspires you to expand and create along with your players. Looking back I am not all that happy with the way the combination of novels and rpg products made the Realms develop. Stories set in a setting is one thing, but ( in my taste of course)they should not be a part of moving the setting forward and should therefore tell minor stories. Roleplaying products should ideally be made so that it is the role of the users to make the major moves forward, with minor updates along the lines of the calender rumours in the early Realms products. Unfortunately that is probably not the best business model. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 19:09:50
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| I think the novels were better when they stuck with the smaller stories. That said, a big event can still be a fun read. I personally think that more than anything else, the issue was the RSE-of-the-week trend they decided to put us on. An RSE every year or two of realtime, with more years game time in betwixt, would work much better -- and that's only if you're going to stick to the flow of RSEs, like 3E did. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 19:19:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the novels were better when they stuck with the smaller stories. That said, a big event can still be a fun read. I personally think that more than anything else, the issue was the RSE-of-the-week trend they decided to put us on. An RSE every year or two of realtime, with more years game time in betwixt, would work much better -- and that's only if you're going to stick to the flow of RSEs, like 3E did.
I would agree if we are talking about a novel-world, but it is a problem when you combine it with a rolplaying game. An rpg can easily be based of a novel series, but I don't think its a good idea to try to have the two move together. The RSE would work better over a longer time-frame, but that would put even more pressure on the rpg side of the Realms. It could maybe be done a bit like the Star Wars D6 game where you have a basic version set in an era where most products take place, but you also get source books that give the game information for specific novels? It then becomes easier to just ignore the parts that don't work, whilst things like geographical details and "core" information given more details at a later date will still be written from the perspective of the basic set.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 20:31:58
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So... 'Big Book o' th' Realms' with occasional 'Gamer's Guide to Novel X' splat-books released with/soon after the novel in question? Sounds good to me. Also, as for the Big Book(s) itself, my HERO System book weighs in at nearly 600 pages (hardcover) and cost as much as one of the larger DnD books. Of course, it's printed on recycled toilet roll and has some seriously dodgy art, but for the Realms you could literally copy-paste vast reams of old material and do a bit of quick editing (as previously mentioned).
I still like my book of hypothetical future Realms's though. :) |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Dinnin
Seeker
Australia
53 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 00:27:23
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Me, I favor rolling back to the end of 2E. I grew up in 2E, and many of my fave novels and sourcebooks come from that era. I'd roll back to right after Cloak & Dagger, and move forward from there. Some 3E things would be kept as they were originally written, others would be rewritten, and still others removed completely.
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i think i might have to agree with that, the first time i played was 2nd ed and i thought it was great. i have since moved onto 3rd ed and not going to 4th but thinking back i still really enjoyed 2nd. Long live THACO |
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We can all have our cake and eat it! ... Maybe
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