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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 01:54:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
You don't have to try 4e to call judgement on it.
You don't? that is like saying you don't have to like your vegetables without trying them first. If you smell and look at a piece of broccoli, you know how it tastes? 
I would just say to each his own and stop the edition hate/dislike/ strongly disagree madness
Please note my smilies |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 02:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Scererar:
If you smell and look at a piece of broccoli, you know how it tastes?
Ahh, but incumbent on this is the assumption that taste is the only element of a vegetable that provides a defensible point of evaluation. I like the taste of raw tomatoes just fine, but I find their watery texture highly unpleasant. 
I'm just saying...
Back, for a moment, to one of Mournblade's original points, re: the Mistshore, yeah, that was the point I threw the FRCG across the room. I'm rather neutral on the Fourth Edition Realms, but the concept of Waterdeep A.) allowing its naval harbor to turn into a lawless shanty town and B.) somehow needing a more ruff-and-tumble portion of the Dock Ward left me somewhat soured.
But, by and large, I say live and let live, to each their own, roll with the punches, know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em, take what you want and leave the rest, always remember your towel and cake for everyone! |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 04:21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
You don't? that is like saying you don't have to like your vegetables without trying them first. If you smell and look at a piece of broccoli, you know how it tastes?
No, no! We like vegetables! It's just that we already bought a lifetime supply of vegetables from our grocer, and now he's trying to convince us that we need to restock with these new fancy vegetables that just came out, and I'm sayin' no way.
I'm also not thinking very highly of my grocer, because all the stuff he's saying now about how great the new vegetables are is pretty much the same thing he said when he sold me the ones on my shelf. Does he really expect me to toss out all these perfectly good cans of vegetables just because he needs to boost his sales? What gall! I'm a customer to be served, not a sheep to be herded and fleeced.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 06:01:02
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
You don't? that is like saying you don't have to like your vegetables without trying them first. If you smell and look at a piece of broccoli, you know how it tastes?
Alas, if you don't like the smell, you probably won't like the taste since the two sense are VERY closely tied together. Which is one of the reasons why your mom used to say hold your nose and eat it.  If you block the smell, you will block most of the taste. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ferdinan Stormcaller
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2009 : 22:33:34
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| I've recently had a similar experience to the OP. A friend of mine picked up the 4ed campaign books and after we had just finished wrapping up our last campaign a few weeks ago I started to look over what the new edition might bring to to the table so to speak. Myself and the rest of my group was appalled by most of the content with a few exceptions. As for the rules we still use 3.5 as many of us feel the 4ed set is too bland. So keep this in mind a direct critique of the heavily muted Ed Greenwood, dare I say completely absent, direction that Hasbro has forced the setting by deciding they can do better then the person who's been doing a fine job for 30+ years. |
Power, courage, wisdom. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 00:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
You don't? that is like saying you don't have to like your vegetables without trying them first. If you smell and look at a piece of broccoli, you know how it tastes?
Alas, if you don't like the smell, you probably won't like the taste since the two sense are VERY closely tied together. Which is one of the reasons why your mom used to say hold your nose and eat it. If you block the smell, you will block most of the taste.
too funny, I just had a vision a group of players holding their noses while rolling a D20 during a 4E game session. The players were saying, see, it's not soo bad |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 06:45:37
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| Ironically, I'm not having a hard time playing 4E in a friends campaign, since he's not running a Realms game, but I cringe when I listen to the Living Forgotten Realms table at the FLGS. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 14:49:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Ironically, I'm not having a hard time playing 4E in a friends campaign, since he's not running a Realms game, but I cringe when I listen to the Living Forgotten Realms table at the FLGS.
That's kind of how I feel. I don't hate 4E, per se, but I do strongly resent what they did to the Realms. 4E, in itself, is a well-designed gaming system for what it intends. Same as the Storyteller system, Rolemaster system and others. However, I don't like the Storyteller system or 4E, so I don't play using those rules. I still like the World of Darkness setting, just don't like the rules being used by many to play in them. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 22:23:44
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Waterdeep? The world power becomes a ship graveyard? Please.
My view of 4th ed W'deep is a little skewed from yours. What are you referencing?
in reading the blackstaff tower I did not get this impression at all. Now when I move onto mistshore, I expect to read more on this ward of waterdeep, but still would not characterize waterdeep as a Ship graveyard.
I picked up Mistshore yesterday and looked through the first couple of pages. It has a letter from Ed that talks briefly about the authors ability to portray Waterdeep and bring the characters to life.
Ed also alludes to Mistshore stemming from his "home" campaign and has been so for some time. Interesting. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2009 : 23:54:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
Its both.
-I gotta ask this. Did You ever play 4E? Just wondering.
To be fair... no.
But I did sit down with the PHB, DMG, and MM (and later the FR4e junk), and I came to this conclusion:
I don't care about how well the combat session flows if I don't like everything else about the game. I hate the way the classes work, the lack of certain classes, the revamped monsters, magic, and pretty much everything else. If simplified rules & smoother combat is the big reward for all the changes, then I call it a polished turd of a reward.
Seeing FR warped and changed to fit with the new rules (plus the divine rewrites to appease those "fans" who wanted less gods in the mix) pretty much tips my initial apathy toward 4e over the edge into the range of hatred of all things 4e. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 03:04:24
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| To me, the rules don't matter as much as the roleplaying itself. So 4e in and of itself is not a bad thing, it is just what they did to the Realms in the name of 4e that ticks me off. I would much rather roleplay a character in 3.x FR than in 4e because I think they took away most of the depth of the setting. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 04:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I picked up Mistshore yesterday and looked through the first couple of pages. It has a letter from Ed that talks briefly about the authors ability to portray Waterdeep and bring the characters to life.
Ed also alludes to Mistshore stemming from his "home" campaign and has been so for some time. Interesting.
-I plan on using Downshadow in my 3E Realms.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 02 Feb 2009 04:33:01 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 10:07:09
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
To me, the rules don't matter as much as the roleplaying itself. So 4e in and of itself is not a bad thing, it is just what they did to the Realms in the name of 4e that ticks me off. I would much rather roleplay a character in 3.x FR than in 4e because I think they took away most of the depth of the setting.
As a consequence of finally getting around to playing the Neverwinter Nights campaign (as opposed to using the Toolset and the DM client), I was reading the 3rd Edition FRCS this weekend, as well as two 2nd Ed books on the pantheon (Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons). It reminded me of the depths and complexity of the setting. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 10:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Ironically, I'm not having a hard time playing 4E in a friends campaign, since he's not running a Realms game, but I cringe when I listen to the Living Forgotten Realms table at the FLGS.
I play LFR, and I think its fun, but then I have deliberately low expectations of the whole thing and I can completely see where you're coming from. 4e is a fun tactical miniatures wargame, but the 4e Realms itself is an abomination (and I *still* refuse to buy the new FRPG and FRCS, and never will) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 12:01:20
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quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Ironically, I'm not having a hard time playing 4E in a friends campaign, since he's not running a Realms game, but I cringe when I listen to the Living Forgotten Realms table at the FLGS.
I play LFR, and I think its fun, but then I have deliberately low expectations of the whole thing and I can completely see where you're coming from. 4e is a fun tactical miniatures wargame, but the 4e Realms itself is an abomination (and I *still* refuse to buy the new FRPG and FRCS, and never will)
I've been running Pathfinder Society events at the same FLGS, and I have to say, those scenarios are much deeper in plot and content than what I seem to see in the LFR adventures. It could just be the DM, but the plots seem to be more about setting parameters for the encounters that providing a context in the world.
Again, these could just be the ones that I have heard being run, and they could just be the DM in question. I don't know for sure. |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 12:15:56
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quote:
I've been running Pathfinder Society events at the same FLGS, and I have to say, those scenarios are much deeper in plot and content than what I seem to see in the LFR adventures. It could just be the DM, but the plots seem to be more about setting parameters for the encounters that providing a context in the world.
Again, these could just be the ones that I have heard being run, and they could just be the DM in question. I don't know for sure.
Oh, undoubtedly they are. The LFR scenarios are constrained by mechanics and time to perhaps four or five encounters, and they're basically generic DnD with some 1475-Faerun flavour sprinkled over the top.
By and in itself this is not a bad thing - its a fun way to spend a few hours with the right people playing a fun tactical miniatures game, but if you're looking for a deep fix of Faerun, then it's not your thing.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 17:41:32
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I think that the Paizo people have focused more on the world, the way FR used to be, and not so much on encounters (the way 4e is), which is the main difference between 3e and 4e rules. Thats why the Pathfinder modules seem 'deep', and the WotC stuff seems generic - its because of the different focus of the material.
As an aside, I haven't been over to the Paizo site in awhile (which is sad), but they actual defended WotC concerning this. I forget who it was - perhaps Erik Mona himself - who stated that Paizo is able to "provide the kind of products gamers want" because they are a MUCH smaller company. A project (like a book on Elves, lets say) that only nets $20,000 would be a failure to a mega-corporation like Hasbro, and wouldn't even be considered, while a $20,000 profit would be considered a HUGE success by Paizo - who will then continuing making such products.
As a larger company answerable to stock-holders, WotC is no longer able to produce any of those less-profitable splatbooks, which is why they have to focus on the "Boom!" factor of new setting books and the main three core books.
It's not that they are incapable of producing great regional splatbooks anymore; they simply aren't allowed to (which is excatly what the brass over at Paizo was implying - they actually pity the WotC guys who have their hands tied).
On the other hand, we were promised that all of that great campaign material would continue in the DDI - and some folks have even rushed out to pay for it... only to find articles like "How to use Warforged in the Realms". 
Had the DDi lived-up to it's promise, there may have been a future for 4e, but as it stands, 4e is built on BS, and with a foundation like that, it's sure to crumble.
Its both sad - an end of an era - and also gives us hope. Before leaving the company, many of the WotC (old TSR) desigeners planted a 'time bomb' within the community - Open Source. Perhaps it was happenstance, or perhaps those guys were more clever then we gave them credit for, but by releasing 'D&D to the public domain', they've insured that D&D as a niche hobby will always be able to continue, out of the grasping hands of profiteering corporations, who want to decide what we like and what we should be playing.
Small companies happy with small profit margins will continue to produce good (and bad) material for the 3e ruleset until the end of time. They can't stop that - Pandora's box has been opened, an no silly GSL will ever be able to close it again.
D&D is dead... Long Live Roleplaying!
It's just so very sad to us here that FR had to be the sacrificial lamb required for this hobby's rebirth. Like Aslan/Nobanion, it was lead to the alter, but on the 3rd day (3rd edition? ), it arose anew with greater vitality then it has had in years.
Thats why I am both happy and sad for the Realms - it had to die for our sins, but now our eyes have been opened. Many of us that felt our hands tied by TSR/WotC's dominion of D&D have now been freed of that, and '3rd party' has gone from a oft-maligned niche-within-a-niche to a viable option.
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Ironically, I'm not having a hard time playing 4E in a friends campaign, since he's not running a Realms game, but I cringe when I listen to the Living Forgotten Realms table at the FLGS.
To be perfectly honest, I would LOVE to particiapte in a 4e game, but I shudder at the thought of playing in a 4e Realms one. 
I'm a gamer at heart, and if it's fun, I could care less what it is I'm playing. Editions don't matter; it's the entertainment value that matters.
Thats why I stopped putting down the rules so much lately - until I play in a game, I find it hard to be judgmental. I still don't care for the way the rules look, but for all I know they may be fun as hell to play with. I'm going to actively look for a 4e game in my area, just to check them out.
I will avoid 4e Realms like the plague, though... pun intended. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Feb 2009 22:59:06 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 19:24:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Its both sad - an end of an era - and also gives us hope. Before leaving the company, many of the WotC (old TSR) desigeners planted a 'time bomb' within the community - Open Source. Perhaps it was happenstance, or perhaps those guys were more clever then we gave them credit for, but by releasing 'D&D to the public domain', they've insured that D&D as a niche hobby will always be able to continure, out of the grasping hands of profiteering corporations, who want to decide what we like and what we should be playing.
Small comapanies happy with small profit margins will continue to produce good (and bad) material for the 3e ruleset until the end of time. They can't stop that - Pandora's box has been opened, an no silly GSL will ever be able to close it again.
D&D is dead... Long Live Roleplaying!
It's just so very sad to us here that FR had to be the sacrificial lamb required for this hobby's rebirth. Like Aslan/Nobanion, it was lead to the alter, but on the 3rd day (3rd edition? ), it arose anew with greater vitality then it has had in years.
Thats why I am both happy and sad for the Realms - it had to die for our sins, but now our eyes have been opened. Many of us that felt our hands tied by TSR/WotC's dominion of D&D have now been freed of that, and '3rd party' has gone from a oft-maligned niche-within-a-niche to a viable option.
I sort of understand what you are saying about 3rd party companies being able to produce D&D products, but there are still certain things that will remain under the domain of WotC...Forgotten Realms for instance. Forgotten Realms has been my favorite setting since the first FR book I picked up, but there are only a few things that could happen to return the FR I know and love. 3rd party companies can't do that, but if WotC straightens up and listens to the fans, or if they sell it to someone else, then it could go back to being a lore-rich setting. I don't see anything right now that indicates that either of those two things is going to happen though, so I just don't see your resurrection metaphor. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 19:47:16
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Which is why I used FR in my analogy as a 'sacrificial lamb'.
We had started to accept whatever lore was handed to us - and you must admit that a LOT of it was pretty bad toward the end (BEFORE the Spellplague nonsense).
We were getting hit with "the RSE of the week", and we weren't even complaining... much.
This has opened our eyes - whereas a year ago I wouldn't even consider using a different setting or going back to homebrew, I am now building a setting of my own, taking the best bits and pieces from all the ones I like (including non-game ones, like the ones found in novels and movies).
Basicaly, FR had to die to release us from our chains... chains we were unaware we even had.
I love the Realms; I will always love the Realms, but I no longer feel like I am 'betraying it' if I run something else. It was what it was, and it will always have that special place in my heart (just like GH did before it).
Yes, WotC owns the Forgotten Realms, and while that is sad in many ways, it may be for the best. How many more years could Wizards milk it for? If the FR-IP tanks and went up for sale, would Paizo even bother to be intertested, considering how much excellent time and effort they have put into their own game world?
What if some other 3rd party picked it up? Maybe Monte Cook... no matter what, though, they would do their own take on things, and we'd probably have something that looked (and smelled) a lot like 3e Spelljammer - something in name only.
The only way I see FR continuing and being successful is as a rules-neutral setting produced by Ed Greenwood and a few select others hand-chosen by him.
Since I do not see the mega-conglomo that is Hasbro EVER relinquishing anything it owns - even if it has no interest in the IP itself - I feel that there is no way FR will EVER be done justice ever again.
So let it RIP, and we can all think about the 'Glory Days' and move on. Its healthy to move on... right now many of us are still wallowing in the loss.
Candlekeep, I feel, has become just a "candle in the wind".  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Feb 2009 19:50:06 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 19:57:30
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-Feeling Melancholy again Markus? After that last post I wanted to start singing "All we are is dust in the wind". 
-For some reason I think Chris Pramas and Green Ronin would do and outstanding job with the Realms. Have you ever checked out Freeport. Awesome fluff.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 20:45:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I am now building a setting of my own, taking the best bits and pieces from all the ones I like
Be careful that the world building bug doesn't bite too hard. Ten years ago I drew a small map on a piece of A4, took a Cornish dictionary to give it some flavour. Then added an Anglo-Saxon dictionary for the dwarves. Decided the elves should have the Celtic languages, although the Orcs got Gaelic. Then decided the best languages were the ones I had designed since no-one else could contradict me and I wouldn't make crass mistakes. Then before I knew it, I'm reading history books like "Viking Age Britain," "Viking Clothing," "The Military History of Ancient Israel," Hock's "Principles of Historical Linguistics," Comrie's "The World's Major Languages" and Mallory and Adams "The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World" (Which I find very enjoyable but probably isn't everyone's cup of tea). I now have an A1 map, 64 languages, my own role-playing system, and a growing encyclopedia of the 70+ nations.
Then again, it's a lot of fun. Just don't expect to find most fantasy books enjoyable again. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 14:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We had started to accept whatever lore was handed to us - and you must admit that a LOT of it was pretty bad toward the end (BEFORE the Spellplague nonsense).
We were getting hit with "the RSE of the week", and we weren't even complaining... much.
Oh, I recall complaining plenty. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 15:19:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We had started to accept whatever lore was handed to us - and you must admit that a LOT of it was pretty bad toward the end (BEFORE the Spellplague nonsense).
We were getting hit with "the RSE of the week", and we weren't even complaining... much.
Oh, I recall complaining plenty.
I feel at fault for some of this. Not because I endorsed the RSE's (I most certainly did not), but because I ignored them and didn't care since it didn't effect my campaigns. But I also didn't complain about them since I assumed they would never really effect my world. Now, I wonder if I had complained more, would things have been different?  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 15:41:26
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| I'm aware that RSEs don't have to affect my Realms unless I let them, but I believe they tend to have a harmful effect on the setting, at least if there are many of them in a small period of time. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 15:49:26
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I totally agree with that. And, if you look at the timelines of the last few, you realize that the Realms have had a RSE at least once a year (or in the case of the last few, all in the same year).
If I was a common person living in Waterdeep, I'd be in my dirty sackcloth with my sign proclaiming the 'End of Days is Nigh'. Then the Spellplague would hit and I'd be proven right. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 18:13:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We had started to accept whatever lore was handed to us - and you must admit that a LOT of it was pretty bad toward the end (BEFORE the Spellplague nonsense).
We were getting hit with "the RSE of the week", and we weren't even complaining... much.
Oh, I recall complaining plenty.
As did I, and from what I saw at Gencon in 06, people were tired of them but the game designers basically said, "Tough, we're going to keep doing them." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 19:06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We had started to accept whatever lore was handed to us - and you must admit that a LOT of it was pretty bad toward the end (BEFORE the Spellplague nonsense).
We were getting hit with "the RSE of the week", and we weren't even complaining... much.
Oh, I recall complaining plenty.
As did I, and from what I saw at Gencon in 06, people were tired of them but the game designers basically said, "Tough, we're going to keep doing them."
I really don't understand the logic behind this. I keep hearing about how there were some people who complained about certain aspects of FR so they changed it, but previous and more legitimate complaints were ignored and the most recent uproar about what they did in 4e is being ignored. Were they just looking for the opportunity to deconstruct the Realms, or are they just blind to all but the least informed fan feedback? |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 20:16:44
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| i fear that i have to place my money on that they wanted to deconstruct the realms as a roleplaying world so nothing could get in the way of the novels [:S] |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 21:33:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I really don't understand the logic behind this. I keep hearing about how there were some people who complained about certain aspects of FR so they changed it, but previous and more legitimate complaints were ignored and the most recent uproar about what they did in 4e is being ignored. Were they just looking for the opportunity to deconstruct the Realms, or are they just blind to all but the least informed fan feedback?
I'm not sure and I'd rather not give a public opinion on what I think happened. If anyone wants to hear what I think, there's ways to contact me, privately. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 23:10:57
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I'd have to go along with Kuje on this.
The only thing I'd be willing to say is that it is apparent someone had an agenda.
Perhaps more then one 'someone'....
'Unification of product lines' appears to be the new corporate buzzwords these days, unfortunately.
Why sell half the people peanut Butter, and the other Half Chocolate, when you can just sell everyone Reeses Peanut Butter Cups?
Do I appear to be vague & inocuous? Good... that was what I was going for... I hate to piss-off the mods.
Oh, and if the 4e Eberron Books have a logo, it will prove I'm right.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Feb 2009 23:11:58 |
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I tried I really did
