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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 12:21:08
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Hello fellow Scibes
Quick question today that may very well be answered as quickly: Is there a link of any sort between Io, father of all dragons, and the overlord Ao?
Of course, Io is not even part of the forgotten realms, so the odds are that there is none. But since I started in the FR setting only 6 years ago, there is alot of lore behind me, so maybe.
And no, I don't expect that there is also an Eo, Oo, Uo and Yo.
Thank you and good day.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 13:46:35
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Well, there was a Captain Eo... 
Io and Ao are not at all related. Io just worries about dragons. Ao worries about all of Realmspace. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 14:10:57
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| There are, however, fan interpretations that have attempted to find some connection between Io and Ao -- the most notable being stored at the planewalker.com site. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 14:32:42
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I remember something about Io being the Overgod of Greyspace (Greyhawk), but I'm not sure if that was GH, SJ, or something else entirely. 
And according to 4e lore, Gods do NOT have 'races' - gods are all drawn from the same pool of beings and although they do have racial worshippers, they themselves care not a wit about race.
That, of course, was one of the major retcons of 4e, to help explain how some racial gods got combined with human ones. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Nov 2008 00:07:39 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 17:57:55
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| -I, personally, never saw any connections, and don't think there are connections. Ao is Realmspace's Overdeity. Io is the head of the Draconic Pantheon (Yes?). Both are two letter names with two vowels, but that's the only similarity. Going on that basis, I could make up a deity names 'Yo', and it could, in theory, also be related. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 18:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-I, personally, never saw any connections, and don't think there are connections. Ao is Realmspace's Overdeity. Io is the head of the Draconic Pantheon (Yes?). Both are two letter names with two vowels, but that's the only similarity. Going on that basis, I could make up a deity names 'Yo', and it could, in theory, also be related.
No.  |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 18:34:59
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| I just think that it's quite a coincidence that the overgod of FR have almost the same name as one of the most powerful gods in D&D history (well, I guess he is). They could have been made from the same essence or something. In other words, they could be "brothers". It would make sense, kinda, as much as gods in a fantasy world can make sense. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 18:44:08
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-Ao is the Overdeity of Realmspace, and Io is the head of the Draconic pantheon. Asides for the name similarity, there's nothing that similar about the two. Maybe being in positions of power, but Ao is in a class of his own, while Io is just a pantheon head, and is likened to Corellon Larethian, Moradin, and all of them.
-Leira, the deity, sounds a lot like Lliira, the deity. There's no connection there (that we know of, anyway). At least officially, there's no connection with Io and Ao. But, if you, personally want there to be a connection, be my guest. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 22 Nov 2008 18:44:52 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 18:53:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
Maybe being in positions of power, but Ao is in a class of his own, while Io is just a pantheon head, and is likened to Corellon Larethian, Moradin, and all of them.
Good point, he shouldn't be above Moradin/Corellon/Gruumsh. Even though dragons is the most powerful race in general (outsiders aside I mean)
BTW in draconomicon 3rd edition, Io's divinity is an intermediate power, what were they thinking? It makes no sense. Is it only because he has less followers then, let's say Moradin? Doesn't the power of the followers count for something? IIRC he was a greater god in 2nd edition, and Bahamut/Tiamat were intermedite, not lesser.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 19:02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Good point, he shouldn't be above Moradin/Corellon/Gruumsh. Even though dragons is the most powerful race in general (outsiders aside I mean)
-Hey, I know a lot of races that would take offense to that!
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
BTW in draconomicon 3rd edition, Io's divinity is an intermediate power, what were they thinking? It makes no sense. Is it only because he has less followers then, let's say Moradin? Doesn't the power of the followers count for something? IIRC he was a greater god in 2nd edition, and Bahamut/Tiamat were intermedite, not lesser.
-Never noticed that before. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 00:13:53
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Well, beings on that 'cosmic' scale (forgoing the 3e stats for Io) are really nothing more then hard-to-fathom concepts to mortals, so those 'names' might not really be names at all, but rather how they translate into the mind of a mortal.
Perhaps the higher-up the deific food-chain you go, the less vowels you get.
Also, from what I ahave heard (not read anywhere), they got the name Ao from the Greek 'Alpha-Omega' - the beginning and the end, or in other words, Eternity (in Marvel Comics lingo). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Nov 2008 03:38:39 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 00:34:19
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It's important to note, as well, that Io was a greater power in 2e but was ranked down to intermediate god status in 3e. Also, in the Realms, Io is more commonly called Asgorath.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 00:37:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, from what I ahave heard (not read anywhere), they got the name Ao from the Greek 'Alpha-Omega' - the beginning and the end, or in other words, Eternity (in Marval Comics lingo).
The 'Alpha-Omega' concept is just a theory.
It's probably worth stating that Ao was not something Ed created. TSR come up with the concept of Ao and he was brought into the setting during the Time of Troubles -- through the 1e to 2e change over. As it stands, Ed has no idea on where TSR came up with the concept of Ao.
For myself, I've actually long suspected that Ao was, at least partially, based on the concept of An from the Sumerian pantheon.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 03:00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-In theory.
Was joke, based on your statement of making up a deity name of any letter and the letter O.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 03:44:39
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True, it must be a vowel coupled with the 'o', and 'y' is only sometimes a vowel, ergo that being could only sometimes be an Overgod, as in -
Yo! You an Overgod today? 
I suppose that would make 'Oo' a legal choice, but that just looks like someone tipped-over a snowman.
Of course, that would only give us five possible Overgods.. sometimes six. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Nov 2008 03:45:09 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 03:46:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I suppose that would make 'Oo' a legal choice, but that just looks like someone tipped-over a snowman.
-I believe that Oo would be the "overdeity" in charge of general chaos, confusion, and insanity. The embodiment of all of that. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 23 Nov 2008 03:47:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 06:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Of course, that would only give us five possible Overgods.. sometimes six.
For some reason, this sentence strikes me as quite amusing. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 07:16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, from what I ahave heard (not read anywhere), they got the name Ao from the Greek 'Alpha-Omega' - the beginning and the end, or in other words, Eternity (in Marval Comics lingo).
The 'Alpha-Omega' concept is just a theory.
It's probably worth stating that Ao was not something Ed created. TSR come up with the concept of Ao and he was brought into the setting during the Time of Troubles -- through the 1e to 2e change over. As it stands, Ed has no idea on where TSR came up with the concept of Ao.
For myself, I've actually long suspected that Ao was, at least partially, based on the concept of An from the Sumerian pantheon.
Or it could have been something similar to the story of L. Frank Baum's naming of Oz. He was telling his story to children and needed a name quick, looked up and saw a filing cabinet with O-Z on the plate.
Although I can't think of a filing cabinet in D&D central encompassing all of A-O... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 13:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And according to 4e lore, Gods do NOT have 'races' - gods are all drawn from the same pool of beings and although they do have racial worshippers, they themselves care not a wit about race.
That, of course, was one of the major retcons of 4e, to help explain how some racial gods got combined with human ones.
Le quack? That clashes with so much previous lore that the whole great tree/wheel brouhaha seems tiny by comparison.... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 16:54:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
True, it must be a vowel coupled with the 'o', and 'y' is only sometimes a vowel, ergo that being could only sometimes be an Overgod, as in -
Yo! You an Overgod today?
I suppose that would make 'Oo' a legal choice, but that just looks like someone tipped-over a snowman.
Of course, that would only give us five possible Overgods.. sometimes six.
That's because your sad, vowel-deprived language haven't got the letters å, ä, and ö. So us Scandinavians can have nine overgods (even if we can't agree on how to write all of the letters). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 17:29:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
True, it must be a vowel coupled with the 'o', and 'y' is only sometimes a vowel, ergo that being could only sometimes be an Overgod, as in -
Yo! You an Overgod today?
I suppose that would make 'Oo' a legal choice, but that just looks like someone tipped-over a snowman.
Of course, that would only give us five possible Overgods.. sometimes six.
That's because your sad, vowel-deprived language haven't got the letters å, ä, and ö. So us Scandinavians can have nine overgods (even if we can't agree on how to write all of the letters).
So the Spanish and folks in Latin America could also have overgods like Įo, Éo, or Ņo...
And our language isn't vowel-deprived. We simply make more efficient use of our vowels.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 00:04:57
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The voice of Reason!
We started out somehwere in Mechanus, I think, and somehow managed to slide all the way to Limbo.
But ya' have to admit, it was pretty funny.
Back on Topic:
The stuff about Io being the Overgod of GH - was that also just a theory, or was that canon somewhere? I played GH for years and I don't recall seeing anything to that effect written down anywhere. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Nov 2008 00:05:30 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 00:21:06
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| Granted, my GH lore has collected a little dust over the years, but I don't immediately recall any particular reference to Io being an Overgod/power for Greyspace. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 15:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Granted, my GH lore has collected a little dust over the years, but I don't immediately recall any particular reference to Io being an Overgod/power for Greyspace.
Nor do I (I know some GH lore, myself). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 16:48:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Back on Topic:
The stuff about Io being the Overgod of GH - was that also just a theory, or was that canon somewhere? I played GH for years and I don't recall seeing anything to that effect written down anywhere.
-It's all theory. The only overdeities that exist are Ao, and "The High Deity", from Dragonlance (or something to that effect). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 18:23:58
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| There is a "high Deity" in Dragonlance? huh? I thought there was only Chaos the father of the gods and then like, the "good" deity... |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 18:26:41
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| As far as "the most powerful" of the dragonlance gods go that is, which is why I didn't mention all the other sucky gods |
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Io and Ao
