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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 03:59:56
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I speak to you now of a knot so tangled and tight;
that it shames even a Sembian's 'few little forgotten things'.
I speak of betrayal and death far below Lathander's blessed light;
lit with fire, fury, ash and hopefully dead God-Kings.
Let me lay down the facts as bare as can be,
but omit not the vital parts.
If ye'll grant me the boon of bearing with me,
by and by the sordid tale starts.
- Before the beginning of Dale Reckoning, before even the founding of ancient empires of Mulhorand and Unther, the Great Brown Wyrm Vulpomyscan had his dwarven slaves build him in the Smoking Mountains the underground lair that would later become the Citadel of Black Ash. [P&P]
- Untold centuries after that, Marduk, the Champions of the Gods, slew Vulpomyscan in a great battle. [P&P]
- A thousand years before the erection of the Standing Stone, Gilgeam toured Unther in preparation for his ascension to his father's place as God-King. He discovered the long-forgotten citadel and dedicated it to the glory of Unther. [P&P]
- In a rage over flooding in Unthalass, the City of Gems, which destroyed ancient records of Unther, Gilgeam sent scribes to the Citadel of Black Ash to create a permanent archive there of his triumphs and accomplishments. This happened in the year 731 as the Dalesmen reckon the march of time. [P&P]
- For almost six centuries, the scribes lived in their isolated manse and recorded the deeds of Gilgeam and the glory of Unther. Finally, in the year 1311 DR, the Great Inner Sea Plague spread into their midst and the last of them were slain. The Citadel was once more abandoned. [P&P]
- In 1358 DR, the God-King of Unther, Gilgeam, The Father of Victory, Lord of the Sky and Cities, and a host of other titles, was killed in battle with Tiamat, the Nemesis of the Gods and the Queen of Dragons. [FRCS, P&P, DoF, LEoF, F&P, etc.]
- Fleeing the chaos and insurgency that flared up in Unther after the death of Gilgeam, a group of the most powerful surviving clerics of Unthalass fled in 1359 DR to the Citadel and made it their refuge. They were accompanied by the martial order The Lords of War and Victory and quickly allied with local fire giants. [P&P]
- The Gilgeamites spent their time mining the extensive underways of the Citadel for gems, hoping that with enough wealth they could restore their faith to power over Unther. Their thousands of slaves died in the hundreds, but enough remained so that a great deal of wealth was gathered. [LEoF, P&P]
- In the year 1366 DR, the Mulhorandi god Set began granting spells to the priests in the Citadel in the name of Gilgeam. The high priest of the Citadel was unaware of the deception and truly devoted to Gilgeam, so a young priestess of Set slowly poisoned him over the next few years to keep his wits too addled to discover the ruse. The second in command of the temple was fully aware of Set's scheme and followed The Father of Jackals willingly. [P&P]
- A volcanic eruption in the Smoking Mountains envelopes the Citadel in a cloud of superheated ash and kills nearly everyone inside. This happens some time in 1372 DR. [LEoF]
Our first conundrum, as it stands, must be when the catastrophe occured. Did it occur immediately at the start of Hammer in the Year of Wild Magic? Did it occur sometime over the year? Or was it the final event before the Year of Rogue Dragons?
Our second mystery must of course be the staggering coincidence of a natural disaster which just happens to strike a structure that has lasted well over 3000 years at the precise moment where most of the still practising clergy of Gilgeam occupy it.
What happened in the Citadel?
Motive, means and opportunity. A lot of powers had one or two of them, but who had all of them?
Those who wanted Gilgeam dead for good and his priesthood to suffer included much of the population of Unther, for starters. Then there are the Gray Ghosts of Furifax and other rebels in Unther, his ancient nemesis Tiamat and her church, Bane (who sees a chance to usurp his portfolio and worshippers) and perhaps the gods of Mulhorand. Other gods from the main Faerūnian pantheon who could see an opportunity in Unther could also be potential suspects.
The means, ash and flame on a gigantic scale, aren't available to just everyone. Powerful wizards, priests, gods and other mighty beings can command such forces, but the common people of Unther, for example, cannot.
The Enclave (and to a lesser extent, the Northern Wizards) could have commanded some ancient secrets about the Smoking Mountains that allowed them to cause a disaster of that magnitude, but it's doubtful at best that they'd be willing to strike in so callous and vindictive manner now when they've never shown any inclination towards warlike behaviour in the past. Also, the Enclave is opposed to Gilgeam's direct rule over the people of Unther, not necessarily all those who retain connections to the old regime.
Nothing we know or suspect leads us to believe that the bandits under Furifax are capable of magic on this scale. Along with the common people, slave uprisings and any other Untheri power groups without gods or archmages on their side, they must be considered extremely unlikely candidates.
One faction which does possess enough power to burn large swathes of land and which certainly favours it as a method, would be the Red Wizards of Thay. But even though flame and superheated ash are methods that suggest Red Wizard involvements, they do not have a strong enough motive. They'd prefer a Gilgeamite vassal to an Unther subsumed totally into Mulhorand and they'd prefer a strong insurgency against Mulhorand to either one. The priests of the Citadel looked likely to work towards Thayan goals, not endanger them.
Of course, it's possible that in trying to 'help' the Gilgeamites, the Red Wizards unleashed something far more terrible than they intended. Perhaps that Thing was what destroyed the Citadel, or, perhaps more frightening still, perhaps the Red Wizards did so in a desperate attempt to undo what they had unleashed? 
Food for thought, at least.
Bane, as a greater god, would certainly possess the power to destroy a temple full of servants of a fallen god. He'd also have a motive, in that he's trying to take over as much of Unther as he can through his Zhentarim and the Black Templars of Mourktar. But would he do so without claiming public credit? Unlikely, to say the least. And black ash, while stylish, isn't related to his portfolio or even his imagery. He remains an outside possibility only.
This crime, brutal though it may be, still seems a little indirect and underhanded for a divine behemoth of chromatic dragon fury. The specific method of a volcanic eruption scattering burning ash is not evocative of Tiamat's power in battle and it certainly doesn't send any kind of signal to destroy the last remants of an old enemy in absolute secret. While she's still a suspect, the method argues against her and her church.
But let's not rule out the Nemesis of Gods. Tiamat is, after all, Gilgeam's ancient foe. Did Tiamat perhaps strike at her old foe through the agency of some of the progeny of Vulpomyscan? Did she promise the brown dragons a seat in her future Unther if they would wake the Smoking Mountains against the servitors of her old foe?
Sobering possibility.
Selūne, Nanna-Sin, Mystra, Ishtar and other goodly gods with a stake in Unther's future are also unlikely candidates, in that smiting a stronghold of evil with black ash is out of character for them and slaying thousands of slaves as collateral damage is probably frowned upon in their divine circles. The same, one supposes, applies to Anhur, Horus-Re and their pantheon, with the exception of Set.
Of course, Set was already hip deep in the whole mess, wasn't he? Did Set's bid for power result in a catastrophic backlash from the former Gilgeamites? Did the Brother of Serpents fail at claiming the allegiance of the loyalists and rather than suffer them to live to seek other gods, destroyed them in a fit of jealous pique? Or did the dying high priest of Gilgeam uncover treachery in his own temple and unleash some hidden weapon that his god left in this secret refuge to punish all those who would forsake Unther for a foreign power?
There's one more suspect we've left to name. Tchazzar, the Father of Chessenta, has a good motive and the means sound tailor made for a fiendish great wyrm red dragon. But Tchazzar didn't appear again in the Old Empires until 1373 DR, after the Citadel was ruins. His identity was bound up with Tiamat's essence at the time. He sounds like he has an alibi.
Or did perhaps even Tiamat perhaps find it hard to bend the will of Tchazzar to hers and the Father of Chessenta, another old foe of Gilgeam, was already striving to free himself from the Queen of Dragons before he appeared in the end of 1373 DR? Was the destruction of the Citadel of Black Ash just one of the terrible birthwracks that the respawning of that aspiring dragon-god unleashed on the Realms?
There is a last suspect, still unmentioned. There is a certain dark irony in the Citadel of Black Ash being consumed in a cloud of black ash. Considering that the priests of Gilgeam had almost suffocated the lifeblood out of the people of Unther until a run of bad fortune landed them there, it also seems fitting punishment for those cruel tyrants. Who doles out just retribution with an eye for the poetic?
Assuran/Hoar, originally an Untheri god, but exiled from his native land after losing a battle for supremacy against Ramman. He is not (yet) given over to evil, so he'd certainly have recognised the callous and decadent nature of Gilgeam's faith. While the focus of his divine existence at the moment is vengeance against Anhur, it is not impossible that the first steps for such a vengeance require Assuran to gather to him some of Gilgeam's followers and priests. Perhaps he found his efforts to recruit continually stymied by the existence of the Citadel and symbolic value it had to former Gilgeamites as a still active temple to the Father of Victory. Perhaps he felt that the agent of punishment against the hated high priests of Gilgeam would have an easier time finding followers.
Clearly, if Assuran caused the natural disaster, his plan has not yet advanced so far as to trumpet his success. This may be due to his weak divine status as the moment or perhaps he must first perform another act of poetic justice. Perhaps he acted mainly to demonstrate his power and sincerity to a powerful potential follower and now he will assist the forces of that follower win a significant victory against the Mulhorandi. Thus, he will establish himself (and the mortals he has chosen as his champion) as the enemy of Old Unther and the invading Mulhorand both and a completely new force.
Of course, judging from his personal history, Assuran would prefer a Chessentan mercenary. But such a man would have trouble inspiring Untheri followers and Assuran is in need of an army composed of Untherites if he is to strike a blow against Anhur and his glorious servitors. Therefore, the natural champion is Furifax of the Gray Ghosts. Popular in Unther, friend of his friends and a cruel enemy that inflicts creative vengeance upon his enemies, Furifax is almost a perfect recruit to Assuran's cause.
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 19:21:30
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What if none of them did it -- what if it was a natural disaster that was really a natural disaster? Not everything in the Realms needs to have been orchestrated by some fell conspiracy or other. Even the most energetic schemers have to hit the head sometime, you know.
Or maybe the priests of Gilgeam somehow did something themselves and wound up hoist on their own petard in a most literal fashion. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 20:09:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
What if none of them did it -- what if it was a natural disaster that was really a natural disaster? Not everything in the Realms needs to have been orchestrated by some fell conspiracy or other. Even the most energetic schemers have to hit the head sometime, you know.
The coincidence is stunning, though. It's a site that has stood safe from earthquakes and eruptions for longer than recorded history. Our primary source on the subject informs us that the volcano the Citadel is built on is long extinct. In fact, the whole eastern mountain range is dormant.
But just a few short years after the God-King that had controlled the place for more than a thousand years dies, the place blows up. With his high priesthood and last remaining holy warriors inside.
Why did a supposedly extinct volcano in a supposedly dormant mountain range suddenly erupt precisely at that time? I mean, just fifty years before, a GOD considered the place safe enough to store permanent paper records, even safer than his palace vaults.
Now, old Gilgeam wasn't perfect by any means and I don't ascribe any omniscience to him, but I'd guess he'd have magic enough to detect any lingering volcanic activity in a hold he controlled for centuries. That is, unless there was some factor at work that he was unable to account for.
Which brings us to enemy action.
I acknowledge that it's technically possible that it was just a statistical fluke and a singularily opportunistic catastrophe. It's just that the odds of that are so vanishingly small that I find it easier to believe in impossible things.
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Or maybe the priests of Gilgeam somehow did something themselves and wound up hoist on their own petard in a most literal fashion.
Possible, but given that they only had access to spells through Set and that the priesthood was divided between true believers and traitors, it would have had something to do with The Father of Jackals. |
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Edited by - Icelander on 30 Sep 2008 20:09:55 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 06:21:02
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Maybe you need to turn this whole thing on its head.
Instead of a coincidence (which seems unlikely), perhaps it was the death of Gilgeam that directly triggered the catastrophe?
Suppose Vulpomyscan didn't mind a little heat - after all, Brown Dragons live in deserts, so living among some active lava tubes probably wouldn't bother it none. By the same token, his 'Dwarven Slaves' could have been Azer! One day he goes out for a stroll, and big, mean Marduk pops a cap in his tukus, and down goes Volpy.
Along comes Gilgeam who discovers the citadel and decides to build his 'Hall of Records' there. Only problem is its very hot (they're not called the "Smoking Mountains" for nothing!), and heat isn't really good for parchment. Not especially good for human sycophants either. So he uses just a small part of his divine power to 'bottle-up' all those siesmic forces.
Only problem is, after he kicks, all that heat and pressure that he's been keeping away form the Citadel goes kablooey.
End of story.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Oct 2008 19:38:14 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 13:54:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maybe you need to turn this whole thing on its head.
Instead of a coincidence (which seems unlikely), perhaps it was the death of Gilgeam that directly triggered the catastrophe?
Suppose Vulpomyscan didn't mind a little heat - after all, Brown Dragons live in deserts, so living among some active lava tubes probably wouldn't bother it none. By the same token, his 'Dwarven Slaves' could have been Azer! One day he goes out for a stroll, and big, mean Marduk pops a cap in his tukus, and down goes Volpy.
Along comes Gilgeam who discovers the citadel and decides to build his 'Hall of Records' there. Only problem is its very hot (they're not called the "Smoking Mountains" for nothing!), and heat isn't really good for parchment. Not especially good for human sycophants either. So he uses just a small part f his divine power to 'bottle-up' all those siesmic forces.
Only problem is, after he kicks, all that heat and pressure that he's been keeping away form the Citadel goes kablooey.
End of story.
It's possible, I suppose. It does trouble me that 14 years pass from the death of Gilgeam to the destruction of the Citadel, but we could explain that away as his passing only removed the protective spells and natural volcanic pressure took some time to build up.
But that doesn't explain why most of Gilgeam's priestly followers live on as undead in the ash-covered ruins. Dozens, if not hundreds, of undead created at once certainly suggest that the deaths were caused by treachery or hostile magic, not natural events. Violent deaths are ever more likely to result in the creation of undead.
Added to that, it's a lot more interesting if there was something deeper behind it than failing wards. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 14:19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
But that doesn't explain why most of Gilgeam's priestly followers live on as undead in the ash-covered ruins. Dozens, if not hundreds, of undead created at once certainly suggest that the deaths were caused by treachery or hostile magic, not natural events. Violent deaths are ever more likely to result in the creation of undead.
Not necessarily. Undead have a way of popping up all the time from strange circumstances. It could have been something as simple as most of them forming because of their dedication to their deity and the violence of their deaths. It could have also been some weird combo of sudden death, their dedication, and various magics that were in place to keep something like that from happening.
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Added to that, it's a lot more interesting if there was something deeper behind it than failing wards.
True. But Occam's Razor, and all that.  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Oct 2008 14:21:10 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 19:47:11
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Okay, if you want a little more depth, tie it back into the Azer and Vulpomyscan. Suppose Gilgeam found the Citadel and there were stiil some Azer Dwarves mucking about. Along with the plugging up the volcanic vents, he puts all of those Azer into stasis (or embeds them in solid rock, or whatever), just to get them out of the way.
Fast forward to the latest Mulhorand-Unther War... in which Thayans play an active part, and support Unther's efforts with both financial and militay assisstance. Along with soldiers and Wizards they bring along some of their battle-priests.
Who just so happen to be priests of Kossuth.
I don't think he was too happy when he found a group of 'his people' entrapped for centuries....
Thats just one of many ways to spin it.
The Realms are like that... infinite possibilities.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 20:03:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, if you want a little more depth, tie it back into the Azer and Vulpomyscan. Suppose Gilgeam found the Citadel and there were stiil some Azer Dwarves mucking about. Along with the plugging up the volcanic vents, he puts all of those Azer into stasis (or embeds them in solid rock, or whatever), just to get them out of the way.
Hmmm... that theory has a few holes in it.
First of all, the time between Marduk's battle with Vulpomyscan and Gilgeam's discovery of the Citadel is a vast gulf of years. As in centuries, if not millenia. It's hard to believe that any remnants of a group of ex-slaves would form a stable society in a place without any acricultural prospects and survive for millenia.
Second, the dwarves of the Wyrm's Legion were slain in battle with the armies of Unther, their bodies sinking into the mud with their draconic master.
Third, Gilgeam is the Master of Wars and Father of Victories. He's unlikely to use sorcery to imprison foes when he can lead troops to slay them.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Fast forward to the latest Mulhorand-Unther War... in which Thayans play an active part, and support Unther's efforts with both financial and militay assisstance. Along with soldiers and Wizards they bring along some of their battle-priests.
Whoa!
Do you have a source for the direct military participation of Thay? I've been running them as supplying funds, goods and weapons; but not sending troops over. You know, proxy war style.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Who just so happen to be priests of Kossuth.
I don't think he was too happy when he found a group of 'his people' entrapped for centuries....
Is it likely that the dwarves in question were Azer? And for that matter, are Azer Kossuth's people? He's the lord of Fire Elementals, but Salamanders, Efretti and other fire creatures have their own lords.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thats just one of many ways to spin it.
The Realms are like that... infinite possibilities.
That they are. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 20:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Hmmm... that theory has a few holes in it.
First of all, the time between Marduk's battle with Vulpomyscan and Gilgeam's discovery of the Citadel is a vast gulf of years. As in centuries, if not millenia. It's hard to believe that any remnants of a group of ex-slaves would form a stable society in a place without any acricultural prospects and survive for millenia
Second, the dwarves of the Wyrm's Legion were slain in battle with the armies of Unther, their bodies sinking into the mud with their draconic master..
Which is why I mentioned 'stasis', or them being encased in solid rock (putting them in a sort-of cryogenic suspension, since they're used to being so hot). The fact that they "sunk into the mud" makes this even more plausible.
quote:
Third, Gilgeam is the Master of Wars and Father of Victories. He's unlikely to use sorcery to imprison foes when he can lead troops to slay them..
We're talking about maybe a hundred 'survivors' or so, and if he came across them encased in stone already (rather then him putting them there), he may have just redecorated the place around them.
quote:
Whoa!
Do you have a source for the direct military participation of Thay? I've been running them as supplying funds, goods and weapons; but not sending troops over. You know, proxy war style.
Nope.
Its a canon fact that they took Unther's side toward the end, but I don't think it was ever specifically mentioned exactly what form the Thayan 'aid' took, and this thread is about building upon the existing lore, not being shackled by it. 
quote:
Is it likely that the dwarves in question were Azer? And for that matter, are Azer Kossuth's people? He's the lord of Fire Elementals, but Salamanders, Efretti and other fire creatures have their own lords.
Nope - thats just the direction I took, considering he used Dwarves to build a Citadel in a chain of Volcanos. Once again, I took the canon we know (Dwarves, in this case), and built upon it to provide an interesting reason for things.
Do the Azer worship Kossuth? Who knows... this is the Realms, and anything goes, and a group of Azer trapped for whatever reason on the Prime Material Plane may take to whatever local power that seems fitting. Nowhere in canon does it say ANY race is forced to worship their own pantheon - thats what 'free will' is all about.
I looked them up just now in the original source for them (1e's Monster Manual II), and all it mentions is their King, Amaimon, and nothing about who they worship. If they appeared in any newer sources (and I'm sure they have), they may have been given a divine patron, but still does not preclude what I said above about a select group going off the beaten path.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2008 : 23:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which is why I mentioned 'stasis', or them being encased in solid rock (putting them in a sort-of cryogenic suspension, since they're used to being so hot). The fact that they "sunk into the mud" makes this even more plausible.
But the site of Marduk's battle with Vulpomyscan (and the Wyrm's Legion fall) was far away from the Citadel.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Nope.
Its a canon fact that they took Unther's side toward the end, but I don't think it was ever specifically mentioned exactly what form the Thayan 'aid' took, and this thread is about building upon the existing lore, not being shackled by it.
True enough.
Speaking as the Zulkirs in my campaign, though, direct military aid would be foolish. Bleeding Mulhorand by funding and arming Unther is all to the good, and arming rebels after it is fallen is kosher as well, but getting embroiled in a land war across the Alamber furthers Thayan interest not at all. Mulhorandi armies are colonising the lands they conquer, so eventually the supply lines would catch up with the front lines, and Thay would be hard pressed to field any force that could stave off the inevitable.
During the Cold War in our world, the two great powers were happy to provide assistence to small nations warring with the opposition, but direct military involvement was mostly out of the question. One is a good way to weaken your enemy on the cheap, but the other weakens you as much as it weakens the opposing power.
Of course, that doesn't mean that individual Zulkirs might not have their own designs, but in general, their assistence is monetary and advisory, not armies in the field.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Nope - thats just the direction I took, considering he used Dwarves to build a Citadel in a chain of Volcanos. Once again, I took the canon we know (Dwarves, in this case), and built upon it to provide an interesting reason for things.
It is a chain of extinct or dormant volcanoes, though, and has apparently been that way for several thousand years. The volcano the Citadel was built in was already extinct before the creation of the empire of Unther.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Do the Azer worship Kossuth? Who knows... this is the Realms, and anything goes, and a group of Azer trapped for whatever reason on the Prime Material Plane may take to whatever local power that seems fitting. Nowhere in canon does it say ANY race is forced to worship their own pantheon - thats what 'free will' is all about.
I looked them up just now in the original source for them (1e's Monster Manual II), and all it mentions is their King, Amaimon, and nothing about who they worship. If they appeared in any newer sources (and I'm sure they have), they may have been given a divine patron, but still does not preclude what I said above about a select group going off the beaten path.
But how did those Azer get there in the first place?
Seems to me that gold dwarves are a more likely candidate. |
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Edited by - Icelander on 05 Oct 2008 23:42:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 02:24:10
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You're really dead-set against the whole 'active volcano/Fire Dwarves' thing, eh?
I'm just wondering what knucklehead named a group of dormant volcanoes The Smoking Mountains... 
After all, there is no way in hell the name would have survived a few thoudsand years until the present time. I think in this case, we should asume they are not nearly as dormant as people think they are (or the mountains have a nasty habit they're trying to break).
I was just sharing how I would spin it if I was at all interested in running something there - you are free to make up whatever you wish for your games. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 03:33:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You're really dead-set against the whole 'active volcano/Fire Dwarves' thing, eh?
It does not pop for me, no.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm just wondering what knucklehead named a group of dormant volcanoes The Smoking Mountains...
After all, there is no way in hell the name would have survived a few thoudsand years until the present time. I think in this case, we should asume they are not nearly as dormant as people think they are (or the mountains have a nasty habit they're trying to break).
The western range is active enough, it's just the eastern part that's dormant. And it's specifically mentioned that the Citadel is located in a volcano that's long dead.
But as I examine the single map that I've seen that shows the Citadel's location, it seems that it's more to the west than east. But that doesn't fit the text in P&P.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I was just sharing how I would spin it if I was at all interested in running something there - you are free to make up whatever you wish for your games.
But you're sure that there's no canon lore on the subject?
There must have been some reason that the 1372 DR destruction of the Citadel was noted in LEoF and the Volo's Guide Dragon article on Unther and Mulhorand.
Some designer, somewhere, must have had a plan for that snippet of lore. Was it a hook for GMs to do with as they pleased or was some official explanation planned? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 04:15:27
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I don't know, but it sounds as if someone had something in mind, but we may never know what that certain something was.
From what I understand from George Krashos, there was quite a bit that was cut-out of the GHotR because of space constraints, and that may have been something that was cut. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 15:55:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't know, but it sounds as if someone had something in mind, but we may never know what that certain something was.
That is a pity.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
From what I understand from George Krashos, there was quite a bit that was cut-out of the GHotR because of space constraints, and that may have been something that was cut.
But where did the reference first appear? LEoF? Faiths and Pantheons? DoF? Dragon #358?
Whom to ask? |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 19:15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't know, but it sounds as if someone had something in mind, but we may never know what that certain something was.
From what I understand from George Krashos, there was quite a bit that was cut-out of the GHotR because of space constraints, and that may have been something that was cut.
Surprisingly, I could've swore WotC had stated they would be updating the GHotR as web enhancements in future articles.
I guess another promise gone unmade by them eh?
I sure would like to know if they could get permission from WotC to post here on Candlekeep what was cut? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 23:24:04
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Icelander:
While I'm not sure what I think of your big conspiracy theory, I *would* like to thank you for pointing out that the Citadel's destruction is extremely fishy. I haven't paid a great deal of attention to that part of the world, and though I read through that section of P&P, I hadn't stopped to think about it.
I think the nice thing about it is that you can tailor it to your individual campaign as you wish. Personally, of the choices you gave, I'd pick Hoar, partly because of a qualification you left out: Knowledge. A subset of Opportunity, I guess. IIRC, (and it's been a while since I read that section), no one knew where the priests were, or even that they existed.
That rules out a number of your players, specifically mortals like the Red Wizards and the Enclave. Both of them have far more important things far closer to home to worry about than to find people who they think were probably drawn and quartered by the mob. I like the idea of poetic justice, though, which makes me lean toward Hoar.
On the other hand, apart from filling in a bit of backstory, that answer really doesn't do anything for me. If I had a high-level priest of Hoar as a player, I might give him the quest by his god. Have him show up and say, "These people are in dire need of vengeance. Go think of something creative." But I don't, so it's of limited use in its current form.
In my two games, we've been dealing a lot with time travel and the Underdark (respectively). The destruction has "Massive Experiment Oops," written all over it; maybe Set stayed in Mulhorand and the priests turned to chronomancy, hoping to go back in time and warn their deity of his impending death, and it backfires big time. Time loop paradox on a bad day. Have it happen when my players are in the area and have it serve as an abect lesson on what their trying to do.
We already know they're mining, maybe their exploits are doing better than we think. Instead of just a few gems, maybe they break into the Underdark and wake up something that shouldn't be awoken. That part of the Faerun's lightly covered, so it could be just about anything. Then either the two forces got into a war, with the destruction being unleashed as a sort of "doomsday weapon" (which is unlikely, since the spell-less priests don't have the power to make them a significant threat), or maybe what they woke up doesn't like having its sleep disturbed and just nuked the place on general principle? That's even more scary, having something that can use that sort of power on a whim. Now my PC's have to figure out what whim is moving the creature(s), and whether the whim will strike again.
See what I mean? Godly conspiracies are fine, but they generally don't serve much purpose beyond the purely theoretical. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 01:06:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
While I'm not sure what I think of your big conspiracy theory, I *would* like to thank you for pointing out that the Citadel's destruction is extremely fishy. I haven't paid a great deal of attention to that part of the world, and though I read through that section of P&P, I hadn't stopped to think about it.
It looks like it was an abandoned plot hook.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I think the nice thing about it is that you can tailor it to your individual campaign as you wish. Personally, of the choices you gave, I'd pick Hoar, partly because of a qualification you left out: Knowledge. A subset of Opportunity, I guess. IIRC, (and it's been a while since I read that section), no one knew where the priests were, or even that they existed.
That rules out a number of your players, specifically mortals like the Red Wizards and the Enclave. Both of them have far more important things far closer to home to worry about than to find people who they think were probably drawn and quartered by the mob. I like the idea of poetic justice, though, which makes me lean toward Hoar.
I like Hoar as well. But the Enclave probably did find out about the Citadel, since the center of their power is located just a short way away.
In any event, Set clearly knew about the priests. And a force of 1000-2000+ people staying for six years in a place which can grow no crops would leave all sorts of clues. It's all but impossible to conceal something like that.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
On the other hand, apart from filling in a bit of backstory, that answer really doesn't do anything for me. If I had a high-level priest of Hoar as a player, I might give him the quest by his god. Have him show up and say, "These people are in dire need of vengeance. Go think of something creative." But I don't, so it's of limited use in its current form.
Well, given that my game involves the current political situation in Unther, I kind of want to know who took out the ex-Gilgeamites. Also, a temple to a lost god buried in ash and stuffed to the gills with treasure is probably going to call out to my players like a beacon of greed.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
In my two games, we've been dealing a lot with time travel and the Underdark (respectively). The destruction has "Massive Experiment Oops," written all over it; maybe Set stayed in Mulhorand and the priests turned to chronomancy, hoping to go back in time and warn their deity of his impending death, and it backfires big time. Time loop paradox on a bad day. Have it happen when my players are in the area and have it serve as an abect lesson on what their trying to do.
Possible. Maybe they woke a dormant volcano by messing with time.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
We already know they're mining, maybe their exploits are doing better than we think. Instead of just a few gems, maybe they break into the Underdark and wake up something that shouldn't be awoken. That part of the Faerun's lightly covered, so it could be just about anything. Then either the two forces got into a war, with the destruction being unleashed as a sort of "doomsday weapon" (which is unlikely, since the spell-less priests don't have the power to make them a significant threat), or maybe what they woke up doesn't like having its sleep disturbed and just nuked the place on general principle? That's even more scary, having something that can use that sort of power on a whim. Now my PC's have to figure out what whim is moving the creature(s), and whether the whim will strike again.
I think the Tolkien estate still owns the rights to that one.
If this happened due to anything the priests did, though, I think it had something to do with the situation between Set-worshippers and loyalists.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
See what I mean? Godly conspiracies are fine, but they generally don't serve much purpose beyond the purely theoretical.
As I said, my players are probably going to want to explore the Citadel. It is, after all, stuffed to the gills with treasure. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 01:33:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
We already know they're mining, maybe their exploits are doing better than we think. Instead of just a few gems, maybe they break into the Underdark and wake up something that shouldn't be awoken. That part of the Faerun's lightly covered, so it could be just about anything. Then either the two forces got into a war, with the destruction being unleashed as a sort of "doomsday weapon" (which is unlikely, since the spell-less priests don't have the power to make them a significant threat), or maybe what they woke up doesn't like having its sleep disturbed and just nuked the place on general principle? That's even more scary, having something that can use that sort of power on a whim. Now my PC's have to figure out what whim is moving the creature(s), and whether the whim will strike again.
I think the Tolkien estate still owns the rights to that one.
If this happened due to anything the priests did, though, I think it had something to do with the situation between Set-worshippers and loyalists.
Hmm, that did sound like the balrog, didn't it? That wasn't my intention; I was thinking more Realms Below, with some here-to-fore unknown race, rather than a single uber-monster, being the culprit. If it's a single monster, it's too easy to fall into the "must smash" frame of mind, I've discovered. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 01:52:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
From what I understand from George Krashos, there was quite a bit that was cut-out of the GHotR because of space constraints, and that may have been something that was cut.
You must have misunderstood George. Nothing was cut from the Grand History. We were packing new timeline events into the book up until the last minute. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 01:55:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Surprisingly, I could've swore WotC had stated they would be updating the GHotR as web enhancements in future articles.
I guess another promise gone unmade by them eh?
The Moonshae Grand History web enhancement was posted months ago with more to follow. No promises have been unmade. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 02:17:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
From what I understand from George Krashos, there was quite a bit that was cut-out of the GHotR because of space constraints, and that may have been something that was cut.
You must have misunderstood George. Nothing was cut from the Grand History. We were packing new timeline events into the book up until the last minute.
Indeed. I even recall it being said that Ed Bonny's "Jhaamdath timeline" [originally posted here at Candlekeep] was also updated somewhat, and included in the published form of Grand History. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Oct 2008 02:17:59 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 05:21:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I even recall it being said that Ed Bonny's "Jhaamdath timeline" [originally posted here at Candlekeep] was also updated somewhat, and included in the published form of Grand History.
Quite true. I was quite happy to include Ed Bonny's Jhaamdath timeline. That's the great thing about Candlekeep.com. Strange how lore here seems to find its way into official sources. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 14:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
While I'm not sure what I think of your big conspiracy theory, I *would* like to thank you for pointing out that the Citadel's destruction is extremely fishy. I haven't paid a great deal of attention to that part of the world, and though I read through that section of P&P, I hadn't stopped to think about it.
It looks like it was an abandoned plot hook.
There are so many of those floating around the Realms it's a wonder that the leading cause of adventurer injury isn't catching one of them in the eye.
Not only abandoned ones, but ones that were tossed out with no intention of ever being followed up on -- like the old Current Clack stuff. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2008 : 19:39:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Surprisingly, I could've swore WotC had stated they would be updating the GHotR as web enhancements in future articles.
I guess another promise gone unmade by them eh?
The Moonshae Grand History web enhancement was posted months ago with more to follow. No promises have been unmade.
Joy and happiness.
There is general rejoicing. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2008 : 05:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Hmm, that did sound like the balrog, didn't it? That wasn't my intention; I was thinking more Realms Below, with some here-to-fore unknown race, rather than a single uber-monster, being the culprit. If it's a single monster, it's too easy to fall into the "must smash" frame of mind, I've discovered.
There are already too many races in the published Realmslore for me to be possibly able to do justice to them all. For that reasons, at the least, I'm reluctant to introduce new and strange races.
Also, Unther is plagued with so many gods jockeying for position, it being the front line of the battle between the Mulhorandi pantheon and the Faerūnian one, that it would be strange if no god was involved. The country is like Berlin in the Cold War, except instead of spies, we've got Gods. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2008 : 06:09:58
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There was a time when my memory was (literally) infallible, but time and the 80's had a way of destroying that gift. 
Anyhow, it's still pretty good, and I know for a fact at least one entry which was cut, because I used it in something I was working on -
George mentioned that there was an entry toward the end of the Imaskari Empire of them "spotting a floating city in the distance", which was indeed cut in the final version.
I never said I knew how much was cut, but I do know SOMETHING was cut.
However, the tome is still an indispensible resource, and I would still buy a leather-bound 'director's cut' of the book, with extra entries and some new (gasp!) art. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Oct 2008 06:10:40 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 03:23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Surprisingly, I could've swore WotC had stated they would be updating the GHotR as web enhancements in future articles.
I guess another promise gone unmade by them eh?
The Moonshae Grand History web enhancement was posted months ago with more to follow. No promises have been unmade.
I do believe not all the material made it. For example, though we see a number of Shou entries in the timeline, none were written for the Kozakura timeline (can't remember which OA book it was, but it had a Kozakuran timeline). And I think Wa had one too, not sure. But, in either case, the Kozakuran timeline never made it in.  |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 15:46:22
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Two things:
1) None of what I said was necessarily to be taken as in-depth, or well-thought-out. It was just some off-the-cuff (yay dashes!) ideas about how you could do something different than what you'd proposed, and how it would need to be tailored to an individual campaign.
2) Pet peeve, so far warning: There are NOT too many races in Faerun. There are too many races in all of the WotC books, a situation almost as ridiculous as the endless parade of PrC's for anything under the sun. Just because it appears in a book does NOT mean it automatically shows up in the Realms unless you want it. There aren't any illumians, dragonborn, spellscales, goliaths, elemental version of common races, skarns, hellborn, or a dozen others in my Realms. Why? Because they don't fit my view of the Realms, and in many cases they were badly thought out and abysmally designed. I control what enters my Realms, slow it to a crawl rather than a sprint, which then leaves me free to add new things without taking away from anything else.
What I like about the "disturbed something in the deep" idea is that it could be anything. All the world knows is the citadel was destroyed. In this scenario, it could have been by good guys because the priests were evil, evil guys who didn't like the competition, or the sleepy for waking them up. Gives huge latitude.
All of this, of course, shows my own bias: I don't think godly metaplots are the least bit interesting in game. To discuss with your friends before the game starts? Sure. But unless your characters are actually in a position to take on the gods (which is yet another thing I hate 3e, and even more, 4e for), then their manipulations are supremely uninteresting. Competing priests, wrasseling temples? Sure, bring it on. But keep the gods at one step remove. But, as Ed says, if that's what your players enjoy, run with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Hmm, that did sound like the balrog, didn't it? That wasn't my intention; I was thinking more Realms Below, with some here-to-fore unknown race, rather than a single uber-monster, being the culprit. If it's a single monster, it's too easy to fall into the "must smash" frame of mind, I've discovered.
There are already too many races in the published Realmslore for me to be possibly able to do justice to them all. For that reasons, at the least, I'm reluctant to introduce new and strange races.
Also, Unther is plagued with so many gods jockeying for position, it being the front line of the battle between the Mulhorandi pantheon and the Faerūnian one, that it would be strange if no god was involved. The country is like Berlin in the Cold War, except instead of spies, we've got Gods.
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Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2008 : 03:55:11
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-Thay supplying Unther is detailed in Dragon 358, Volo's Guide "War upon the Sands", by Brian Cortijo (Where do I know that name from? ) Pg's 70 to pg's 73. Thay is on page 73. I hope that helps some. 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2008 : 05:18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Thay supplying Unther is detailed in Dragon 358, Volo's Guide "War upon the Sands", by Brian Cortijo (Where do I know that name from? ) Pg's 70 to pg's 73. Thay is on page 73. I hope that helps some.
BRIMSTONE
I've read that.
The inference of 'magical and monetary aid' seems to me to be that Thay does not take direct military part in the war. As I said, proxy war.
In my campaign, Thay is bankrolling blockade-running merchants willing to supply magical weapons, food and armaments to any and all factions likely to resist the Mulhorandi. The Tiamatans are one, so are the Grey Ghosts, but mostly the Thayans would prefer it if they could subvert some part of the old Unther nobility and military elite to favour pro-Thayan policies.
The promise of monetary and magical aid in a time of crisis is a powerful motivator for men who otherwise wouldn't have looked twice toward Thay.
Of course, as always, the weakest link of the Thayan plan for the area is that there are at least two factions of Thayans involved and their goals don't mesh well.
The primary goal is championed by the Guild of Foreign Trade and is strategically sound and politically achievable. It is to prolong the fighting as much as possible without taking undue risk and then push for one of their Untheri patsies to sue for peace. At least Unther as a Mulhorandi satellite state is preferable to one completely subjugated and a Mulhorandi Empire that might never stop its conquest. And this proxy Unther would have no reason not to allow a further growth of Red Wizard enclaves, which means the Guild grows ever richer. This plan is endorsed by most of the Zulkirs, including all those who stand behind the Guild, and has the tacit endorsement of Zulkir Szass Tam.
In the Guild, though, there is a faction of Invokers, as there is of every other order within the land. Ordinarily, the Tharchion of Evocation, Aznar Thrul takes little interest in Guild business, but the clandestine trade to Messemprar is mostly routed through Bezantur, his city. He can't help but notice and be interested.
And his strategy is bolder than just stretching out the inevitable and hoping to profit. Using his influence, he has managed to get one of his young protegés sent to Unther with a group of merchants, ostenably to ensure that the merchants sell their goods to factions acceptable to Thay. In reality, he is to assist agents to Thrul already there in finding an Untheri general who can be relied upon to win the war if given enough support.
Obviously, that would require more than just some cargoes of grain, weapons and magic; but Aznar Thrul is confident that if he presents Zulkir Nevron with a solid plan, that inveterate foe of the peaceful approach will join him in summoning a horde of fiends, elementals and other conjured minions for Unther. As long as no Thayan soldier crosses the Alamber Sea, Thrul figures, Mulhorand doesn't have a casus belli against Thay.
If the campaign should go ill, of course, Thrul would seek to move his men into position to aid the Untheri. For that, he'd need the connivance and aid of Tharchion Thessaloni Canos, which is unlikely to happen. Obviously, Thrul's strategy as a whole is overbold and dangerous, but that's no guarantee that it won't go forward. Unless the Guild finds out soon enough to defuse it without a direct confrontation, of course. Perhaps by influencing the men Thrul hopes to make his cat's paws.
In addition to these two factions, Zulkir Lauzoril is still playing his own game with the slave underground in Messemprar. One of his enchanters was involved in the original 1357 DR uprising and has managed to become the most influential leader of the former slaves. What his intentions for Unther are, none can say. At any rate, they are not channeled through the Guild of Foreign Trade. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 06:57:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Two things:
1) None of what I said was necessarily to be taken as in-depth, or well-thought-out. It was just some off-the-cuff (yay dashes!) ideas about how you could do something different than what you'd proposed, and how it would need to be tailored to an individual campaign.
I'm mostly looking for the most likely scenario, not the most gamable one. One of the most interesting features of the Forgotten Realms, to me, is that Ed has always written about them as if he's describing a real place. To that end, I'm leery of adopting a design philosophy based on any other factor than what I believe would really happen.
Granted, there are gods, magic and monsters; but one must try to understand the rules that govern each and reason accordingly.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
2) Pet peeve, so far warning: There are NOT too many races in Faerun. There are too many races in all of the WotC books, a situation almost as ridiculous as the endless parade of PrC's for anything under the sun. Just because it appears in a book does NOT mean it automatically shows up in the Realms unless you want it. There aren't any illumians, dragonborn, spellscales, goliaths, elemental version of common races, skarns, hellborn, or a dozen others in my Realms. Why? Because they don't fit my view of the Realms, and in many cases they were badly thought out and abysmally designed. I control what enters my Realms, slow it to a crawl rather than a sprint, which then leaves me free to add new things without taking away from anything else.
As it stands, I have trouble examinging the culture of those races already in the game (just the basic elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling, etc.). I'd far rather feature two different societies that are fully fleshed out than a dozen painted in too broad strokes.
As there are already a lot of races and subraces, I expect it will take me years of interactions before my players really understand what it means to be a rock gnome or a tallfellow, so I'd prefer if there were no new and exotic races being introduced.
That, and a flash of volcanism suggests powerful magic or godly interference to me. It doesn't suggest an attack by a lot of people.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What I like about the "disturbed something in the deep" idea is that it could be anything. All the world knows is the citadel was destroyed. In this scenario, it could have been by good guys because the priests were evil, evil guys who didn't like the competition, or the sleepy for waking them up. Gives huge latitude.
Huge latitude and my players might never discover the truth, even if they do travel to the Citadel (far from a given). But as the GM, I have to know before they get there, in case they decide to investigate. The clues available will differ, depending on whether the eruption was natural, caused by divine magic or caused by arcane magic, for example.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
All of this, of course, shows my own bias: I don't think godly metaplots are the least bit interesting in game. To discuss with your friends before the game starts? Sure. But unless your characters are actually in a position to take on the gods (which is yet another thing I hate 3e, and even more, 4e for), then their manipulations are supremely uninteresting. Competing priests, wrasseling temples? Sure, bring it on. But keep the gods at one step remove. But, as Ed says, if that's what your players enjoy, run with it.
The godly plot isn't meant to involve the players directly. But, for example, if it was Hoar/Assuran, for example, that has many ramifications by which the PCs can be affected.
Let's say that the final destruction of the Citadel was caused by the power struggle between Set-worshipping renegades led by the 2i/c and the loyalists led by the old high priest. While dying of the poison fed to him by the conspirators, the high priest realised the treachery of his lover/concubine and his friends and fellow priests. His lust for vengeance was so great that when Assuran entered his mind and offered him the means to avenge himself, he eagerly accepted (hence completing Gilgeam's defeat, as his last loyal high priest dies while serving another god).
Assuran grants the priest the power to wake the earth with three thunderous blasts. Superheated ash floods the Citadel, killing both those converted to Set and those few who remained loyal to Gilgeam. With this, justice was served as the former tyrants of the people were slain and it was poetic justice in that their retreat, the Citadel of Black Ash, turned on them. It also sent a powerful signal to any opponents of the old regime that Assuran was a deity worthy of worship.
Seeing the events in a dream, the bandit leader Furifax exults in the destruction of his hated enemies. He swears Assuran his fealty, if Assuran will grant him powers to fight the surviving priests of the old regime as well as the troops of the invading Mulhorandi. With this, a new divine champion has come on the scene of Unther and priests of Assuran start seeking converts among the Grey Ghosts.
Later, they plan to preach among the common people of Unther, both occupied and free, and harp on justice against all opressors. I predict that will fall into fertile ground, as the popular opinion in Unther is that the crossing of the River of Swords by the Mulhorandi was an act of base treachery. Assuran will also be an attractive deity as his anti-Gilgeam credentials have been established by the events at the Citadel.
Here, the Citadel is a normal dungeon, with undead hecuevas and some few crazed and hungry survivors. It can be looted for gems and other treasure, whoop-die-do.
Also, the Grey Ghosts become more interesting and the moral ambiguity of Furifax is enhanced. Yes, he is evil and yes, the Mulhorandi are good, but it's still far from certain which side is 'right'. And with godly powers, Furifax can be more than just a minor thorn in the side of the Mulhorandi, he can make a start at becoming a government in his small part of Unther, at least.
Tiglath, as an old ally of Furifax, also becomes a natural target for conversion. She is an ill-fit for a priest of Tiamat, being non-evil and rather decent underneath, despite her ruthlessness and desire for vengeance over Gilgeam and his priests. Assuran could appeal to her and have a powerful high priest in Unther if he succeeds. That would also probably trigger a holy war between surviving clerics of Tiamat and the emergent clergy of Assuran.
Set's clergy also have a reason to target clerics of Assuran, so that might draw them further into Unther. Given that the invaders have no more reason than the inhabitants to love them, that could make for strange bedfellows and fun adventures.
Lots of things which could involve players. |
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The Mysterious Events of the Citadel of Black Ash
